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Ornlu
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10:24a, 12/14/20
AG
Next thing I'm gonna brew is a hoppy hard seltzer:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/edit/1089320

Bring 1 gallon of RO (or distilled) water to a boil. Dissolve the brewing minerals except for chalk and citric acid. Add 4 lbs of corn sugar. After boiling for 5 minutes, add 1/4 oz of Citra hops. Boil for 5 minutes.

Flameout and add 1/4 oz of Lemondrop hops. Chill to 170 and try to hold it there for ~10 minutes.

Add the gallon of hot water to 4 additional gallons of cold water (result should be 70F final temp) and add 1/4oz Mandarina Bavaria hops (in a nylon sack). Add the chalk and enough citric acid to get to a ph of 5.6.

Oxygenate and pitch champagne yeast. Ferment until completely dry. Rack to the serving keg and add another 1/4oz of Mandarina Bavaria (still in a sack).


.....

No idea how this is gonna go. Completely a SWAG on my part. I've never even had any "Hoppy Hard Seltzer".
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to Ornlu • 11:27p, 12/14/20
AG
Sounds tasty. You ever try the NA Lagunitas hoppy water? I liked it better than I thought I would.

Also, anyone have a recommendation for a hazy IPA or hazy pale ale recipe to try for the first time? I have some Wyeast London Ale III on hand, and apparently it is great for the style.

I did a grab bag buy recently and have 1oz of each of the following on hand as well:
Warrior
Ahtanum (never heard of?)
Tettnanger (figure this would be better for other styles)
Ekuanot
Cashmere
Simcoe
Mosaic
Azacca

And yes, I realize unless I want a Frankenstein beer, I will need to just buy some more hops to go with this list for a hazy IPA.
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AlaskanAg99
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1:31p, 12/15/20
AG
Anyone on the west side of Houston interested in bags of malt? I have Irex Pale and 2 bags of Skagit Valley Pale malt. $30/ea. Stored inside and sealed.

Health issues forcing me to take at least a year off brewing.
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to AlaskanAg99 • 1:37p, 12/15/20
AG
AlaskanAg99 said:
Anyone on the west side of Houston interested in bags of malt? I have Irex Pale and 2 bags of Skagit Valley Pale malt. $30/ea. Stored inside and sealed.

Health issues forcing me to take at least a year off brewing.
That's a bummer to hear! Hope that it can improve for you.
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AlaskanAg99
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In reply to Chipotlemonger • 1:40p, 12/15/20
AG
Chipotlemonger said:
AlaskanAg99 said:
Anyone on the west side of Houston interested in bags of malt? I have Irex Pale and 2 bags of Skagit Valley Pale malt. $30/ea. Stored inside and sealed.

Health issues forcing me to take at least a year off brewing.
That's a bummer to hear! Hope that it can improve for you.


I've got back issues, no beetus or anything. I may have to quit all together but selling hardware isn't something I have to do now. Rather just divest myself of perishables first.
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62strat
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In reply to AlaskanAg99 • 2:02p, 12/15/20
AG
AlaskanAg99 said:
Chipotlemonger said:
AlaskanAg99 said:
Anyone on the west side of Houston interested in bags of malt? I have Irex Pale and 2 bags of Skagit Valley Pale malt. $30/ea. Stored inside and sealed.

Health issues forcing me to take at least a year off brewing.
That's a bummer to hear! Hope that it can improve for you.


I've got back issues, no beetus or anything. I may have to quit all together but selling hardware isn't something I have to do now. Rather just divest myself of perishables first.
i was about to ask.. can't brew, or can't drink??
Don't you pump everything?

I feel like I don't use my back at all with my current set up.. other than cleaning, and I plan to get a big sink to do that more easily.
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AlaskanAg99
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In reply to 62strat • 2:18p, 12/15/20
AG
62strat said:
AlaskanAg99 said:
Chipotlemonger said:
AlaskanAg99 said:
Anyone on the west side of Houston interested in bags of malt? I have Irex Pale and 2 bags of Skagit Valley Pale malt. $30/ea. Stored inside and sealed.

Health issues forcing me to take at least a year off brewing.
That's a bummer to hear! Hope that it can improve for you.


I've got back issues, no beetus or anything. I may have to quit all together but selling hardware isn't something I have to do now. Rather just divest myself of perishables first.
i was about to ask.. can't brew, or can't drink??
Don't you pump everything?

I feel like I don't use my back at all with my current set up.. other than cleaning, and I plan to get a big sink to do that more easily.


Still involves a lot of lifting and bending over for hoses and what not. Im quickly developing issues with arthritis in my back in addition to disk issues (I had 2 surgeries in '19). Things a normal person doesn't think twice about are big issues for me. Because my mobility is severely limited, I've gotten fat. My rheumatologist told me I've got to get healthy now or I'll really regret it later.

Right now I've got to lose a lot of weight and that'll be 95% diet over the next year. Brewing just doesn't make any sense when my whole system is designed for 10 gallons finished beer.

Once I hit my target weight, then I can balance myself out. So no hardware sales. Just going to divest myself of grain and hops.
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62strat
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In reply to AlaskanAg99 • 2:29p, 12/15/20
AG
AlaskanAg99 said:
62strat said:
AlaskanAg99 said:
Chipotlemonger said:
AlaskanAg99 said:
Anyone on the west side of Houston interested in bags of malt? I have Irex Pale and 2 bags of Skagit Valley Pale malt. $30/ea. Stored inside and sealed.

Health issues forcing me to take at least a year off brewing.
That's a bummer to hear! Hope that it can improve for you.


I've got back issues, no beetus or anything. I may have to quit all together but selling hardware isn't something I have to do now. Rather just divest myself of perishables first.
i was about to ask.. can't brew, or can't drink??
Don't you pump everything?

I feel like I don't use my back at all with my current set up.. other than cleaning, and I plan to get a big sink to do that more easily.


Still involves a lot of lifting and bending over for hoses and what not. Im quickly developing issues with arthritis in my back in addition to disk issues (I had 2 surgeries in '19). Things a normal person doesn't think twice about are big issues for me.
I've had lifelong (well.. adulthood anyway) herniated disk issues in lumbar 7. I feel your pain man.

I've opted, so far, to stay away from surgery. If I am adamant about knowing when to stop, for the most part, I can avoid flairups which end in me in bed for a day or two, then 10 days of walking around like Martin Crane from Fraiser. But sometimes just the simplest task like picking up something small can turn badly in a hurry if there is a weird twist involved in the torso.

I have managed to maintain a really healthy weight even thought I have usually 50-60 gallons of beer on tap. I definitely make sacrifices elsewhere in the diet on a consistent/daily basis.


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AlaskanAg99
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2:55p, 12/15/20
AG
My L5S1 herniated 2x ober a decade ago. No surgery. A few injections and the disk is largely gone.

Early 2019 my L4L5 let go while I was getting out of a car. Ejected disk material right into my left sciatic nerve. I now know what level 10 pain is. I was bed ridden, couldn't setup let alone walk. Wheel chair and screaming pain when I had to go visit the docs for all the pre-op. It was miserable. Surgeonnsaid it was the worst injury he'd seen that didn't involve a car wreck.

Herniated same disk 6 months later for 2nd surgery.

Now arthritis of 2 types is screwing me. Im going to get the meds for those today. I hope in the future I can get yo a health weight and keep everything in moderation. But I've got a long way to go to get there.
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fav13andac1)c
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In reply to AlaskanAg99 • 3:48p, 12/15/20
AG
AlaskanAg99 said:
My L5S1 herniated 2x ober a decade ago. No surgery. A few injections and the disk is largely gone.

Early 2019 my L4L5 let go while I was getting out of a car. Ejected disk material right into my left sciatic nerve. I now know what level 10 pain is. I was bed ridden, couldn't setup let alone walk. Wheel chair and screaming pain when I had to go visit the docs for all the pre-op. It was miserable. Surgeonnsaid it was the worst injury he'd seen that didn't involve a car wreck.

Herniated same disk 6 months later for 2nd surgery.

Now arthritis of 2 types is screwing me. Im going to get the meds for those today. I hope in the future I can get yo a health weight and keep everything in moderation. But I've got a long way to go to get there.
I am sorry to hear what you are going through. That sounds extremely difficult and I hope your pain can get under control soon.


I know you didn't ask, and I hope you don't mind me throwing a little bit of unwanted practical advice, but I've undertaken weight loss recently as well and I've had success with MyFitnessPal. It's an excellent calorie tracking app that allows you to have what you want in moderation. You can track macros as well. I've gone from 225 down to 208 using the app. I always try to make room for a couple of beers over the weekend, and MyFitnessPal helps stay within my caloric budget.
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AlaskanAg99
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In reply to fav13andac1)c • 8:03p, 12/15/20
AG
fav13andac1)c said:
AlaskanAg99 said:
My L5S1 herniated 2x ober a decade ago. No surgery. A few injections and the disk is largely gone.

Early 2019 my L4L5 let go while I was getting out of a car. Ejected disk material right into my left sciatic nerve. I now know what level 10 pain is. I was bed ridden, couldn't setup let alone walk. Wheel chair and screaming pain when I had to go visit the docs for all the pre-op. It was miserable. Surgeonnsaid it was the worst injury he'd seen that didn't involve a car wreck.

Herniated same disk 6 months later for 2nd surgery.

Now arthritis of 2 types is screwing me. Im going to get the meds for those today. I hope in the future I can get yo a health weight and keep everything in moderation. But I've got a long way to go to get there.
I am sorry to hear what you are going through. That sounds extremely difficult and I hope your pain can get under control soon.


I know you didn't ask, and I hope you don't mind me throwing a little bit of unwanted practical advice, but I've undertaken weight loss recently as well and I've had success with MyFitnessPal. It's an excellent calorie tracking app that allows you to have what you want in moderation. You can track macros as well. I've gone from 225 down to 208 using the app. I always try to make room for a couple of beers over the weekend, and MyFitnessPal helps stay within my caloric budget.


Ha, im already using it. I did a couple of years ago and dropped 25. Just fired it back up and put myself on 1600/day. This is to start and then I'll get more i to it.
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Chipotlemonger
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9:25a, 12/28/20
AG
Made a mistake while brewing my ESB! Although I hit the target OG (my main concern), I used an unsanitized test tube to pull off the sample measurement. I can't remember why, either I didn't like the sample or wanted to wait for it to completely cool, but I nonchalantly threw the wort back into the kettle. Pretty much realized my issue right away, but what are you going to do!

Chances are, I'm "fine", but it leaves me wondering if the reason I'm having such a long fermentation is that I have an infection in the beer.
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Kyle98
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8:30p, 12/29/20
AG
Got an AHS gift certificate for Christmas. Looks like I'll be firing up the garage brewery soon for the first time in about a year!
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fav13andac1)c
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In reply to Ornlu • 4:23p, 1/4/21
AG
Ornlu said:
Next thing I'm gonna brew is a hoppy hard seltzer:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/edit/1089320

Bring 1 gallon of RO (or distilled) water to a boil. Dissolve the brewing minerals except for chalk and citric acid. Add 4 lbs of corn sugar. After boiling for 5 minutes, add 1/4 oz of Citra hops. Boil for 5 minutes.

Flameout and add 1/4 oz of Lemondrop hops. Chill to 170 and try to hold it there for ~10 minutes.

Add the gallon of hot water to 4 additional gallons of cold water (result should be 70F final temp) and add 1/4oz Mandarina Bavaria hops (in a nylon sack). Add the chalk and enough citric acid to get to a ph of 5.6.

Oxygenate and pitch champagne yeast. Ferment until completely dry. Rack to the serving keg and add another 1/4oz of Mandarina Bavaria (still in a sack).


.....

No idea how this is gonna go. Completely a SWAG on my part. I've never even had any "Hoppy Hard Seltzer".
Curious as to how this turned out?
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Ornlu
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In reply to fav13andac1)c • 6:07p, 1/4/21
AG
Its carbing now at 30psi. I'll let you know tomorrow.

At kegging on Sunday morning, it was hoppy and bitter... but pleasantly so. While cold crashing I. The fridge, the whole fridge smelled so hoppy it made my head spin when I stick it in the fridge to check temp.
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Ornlu
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In reply to fav13andac1)c • 1:13p, 1/6/21
AG


Pours slightly cloudy and slightly green, with a bright white head that does not persist. Aroma is hop-forward, strongly so. Notes of citrus and ?Cilantro? Something strange in the aroma. It's grassy and very herb-like. The lemon and the grapefruit from the hops aren't as prominent as the herby-ness.

Flavor's not as hoppy as I really wanted. It's there, and with really no bitterness to speak of, but it's just not prominent. Honestly, the most lasting impression is just of mineral water. It's VERY minerally.

It's very bubbly and light - definitely the most crushable thing I've brewed, but it's seltzer not beer so that's not surprising.

If I had to do it again, I'd keep the citric acid and the calcium chloride, but drop the rest of the minerals. I'd also boil the citra for 10 minutes instead of 5 and add the lemondrop at flameout.
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Ornlu
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7:28p, 1/6/21
AG
Got my next brew day planned for 2 weeks from now. Its gonna be a split 10 gallon batch - so one mash but two separate boils. First runnings will become a Dopplebock; second runnings will become an ESB. Should be about 9.4% and 5%, respectively.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1097824/partigyle12-dopplebockish-1st-runnings-

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1097843/partigyle12-esbish-2nd-runnings-
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fav13andac1)c
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In reply to Ornlu • 8:04a, 1/7/21
AG
Ornlu said:


Pours slightly cloudy and slightly green, with a bright white head that does not persist. Aroma is hop-forward, strongly so. Notes of citrus and ?Cilantro? Something strange in the aroma. It's grassy and very herb-like. The lemon and the grapefruit from the hops aren't as prominent as the herby-ness.

Flavor's not as hoppy as I really wanted. It's there, and with really no bitterness to speak of, but it's just not prominent. Honestly, the most lasting impression is just of mineral water. It's VERY minerally.

It's very bubbly and light - definitely the most crushable thing I've brewed, but it's seltzer not beer so that's not surprising.

If I had to do it again, I'd keep the citric acid and the calcium chloride, but drop the rest of the minerals. I'd also boil the citra for 10 minutes instead of 5 and add the lemondrop at flameout.
I love that the hop aroma really came through. Thanks for the update!
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Chipotlemonger
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11:12p, 1/9/21
AG
Kegged my ESB this afternoon! It's the one I really paid attention to on getting the right OG with my mash. Happy to say that fermentation went very well, achieved the target FG of 1.012 on the dot. Felt like I improved my kegging process as well, outside of 2 leaky lid o-rings.

The beer tasted good and I think with a chill down and some carbonation it will taste great.

I brewed it near a month ago so it had a nice and long primary fermentation. This is a clear beer.
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Ornlu
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10:07p, 1/17/21
AG
Well I brewed a 1.094 dopplebock and a 1.047 ESB this weekend. How about y'all?
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to Ornlu • 11:20p, 1/17/21
AG
Ornlu said:
Well I brewed a 1.094 dopplebock and a 1.047 ESB this weekend. How about y'all?
I really enjoy my 1.051 ESB on tap right now. Fun to brew a harder-to-find style like that to have at home!

Just finished ordering some ingredients for my next 2 brew days. One of them is going to be a kind of 'off-the-cuff' amber ale. I am using some leftover yeast and already on hand hops for it. The other is my first foray at a NEIPA. Excited to try that out.
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fav13andac1)c
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8:42a, 1/18/21
AG
Last brew today before baby #2 arrives.

I was going to make a NEIPA, but Homebrew Headquarters didn't have 1318 or London Fog when I picked up, so I opted for just the 1056. Decided to go full west coast and use all Centennial. Still using the NEIPA grain bill, though.
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to fav13andac1)c • 9:41a, 1/18/21
AG
What kind of water you using? Do you adjust much for the different styles?
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fav13andac1)c
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In reply to Chipotlemonger • 10:10a, 1/18/21
AG
Distilled and manually adjusted water.

Chloride/Sulfate is roughly 2:1. Still ended up going with the NEIPA water. I could call it an experiment, but the truth is I just didn't feel like doing the calculations to trend back towards the higher sulfate ratio. I do typically adjust for the different styles, just not on this particular day.
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to fav13andac1)c • 12:01p, 1/18/21
AG
Good deal.

I've looked at my water report and have seen both low chloride and sulfate ppm numbers (7 and 12 respectively if I remember right). The only time I've done any kind of adjustment has been adding a teaspoon or so of gypsum salt once. I know about the kind of recommended ratios between sulfate and chloride for west coast vs. pure hazy, but with such low ppm numbers should I be bumping both of to improve my brewing?
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Ornlu
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In reply to Chipotlemonger • 3:27p, 1/18/21
AG
Chipotlemonger said:
Good deal.

I've looked at my water report and have seen both low chloride and sulfate ppm numbers (7 and 12 respectively if I remember right). The only time I've done any kind of adjustment has been adding a teaspoon or so of gypsum salt once. I know about the kind of recommended ratios between sulfate and chloride for west coast vs. pure hazy, but with such low ppm numbers should I be bumping both of to improve my brewing?
Hey! Sounds like you're ready to learn water chemistry calculations. Can I teach you?
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to Ornlu • 3:37p, 1/18/21
AG
Not sure if I should say yes or no! Feel like there's potentially a "gotcha" on the way.

I did download and review the Bru'N Water excel file/program. Neat tool. Issue I have is my water report is incomplete. I have chloride and sulfate listed fortunately, but a lot of the other inputs for that sheet are unknown to me.
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fav13andac1)c
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In reply to Ornlu • 3:53p, 1/18/21
AG
Ornlu said:
Chipotlemonger said:
Good deal.

I've looked at my water report and have seen both low chloride and sulfate ppm numbers (7 and 12 respectively if I remember right). The only time I've done any kind of adjustment has been adding a teaspoon or so of gypsum salt once. I know about the kind of recommended ratios between sulfate and chloride for west coast vs. pure hazy, but with such low ppm numbers should I be bumping both of to improve my brewing?
Hey! Sounds like you're ready to learn water chemistry calculations. Can I teach you?


Oh boy! Water class!
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Ornlu
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3:55p, 1/18/21
AG
Nah, it's not too bad.

Does your water report list any of these?
  • pH
  • Total Hardness (HCO or CaCO3 equivalent)
  • Alkalinity or Bicarbonate
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Ornlu
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9:35a, 1/19/21
AG
Sorry for the delay - got busy on family stuff last night.

Brewing water chemistry is just like 80% ion balance, 20% recipe crafting. Thankfully your calculator (Bru'N water, Beersmith, or I use Brewers Friend) will do all the math for you.

The basic method you should start with is starting with Reverse Osmosis (or even better, distilled) because it's has known concentrations of all of the ions. Then add the salts that will get you to your chosen profile. Later, after you have an experiential understanding for how different ingredients affect the final product, you can switch to blended inputs to save cost. But for the next few batches... RO water only.

There are 7 ions you need to control. This combination of ions is referred to as a "Water Profile"
  • Calcium
  • Magnesium
  • Sodium
  • Chloride
  • Sulphate
  • Bicarbonate
  • and pH (I know, I know, it's not an ion, but you can just treat it as if it were one and it'll simplify things a LOT)

There are about 7 ingredients that you can use to get your ion levels in the correct range. Trouble is that none of them change just a single ion level - the all affect more than one level. So no calculator can be coded that will tell you which salts you have to add. Instead, you have to just start playing with the numbers until you get the end result that you want. I keep my brewing salts in mason jars next to my airlocks, stoppers, etc. Here are the ingredients you'll need to have on hand:
  • Gypsum - Calcium Sulphate
  • Epsom Salt - Magnesium Sulphate
  • Table Salt - Sodium Chloride
  • Calcium Chloride - obvious.
  • Chalk - Calcium Carbonate
  • Baking Soda - Sodium Carbonate
  • Some kind of acid. Lactic, citric, phosphoric, etc. I use tartaric.

All those other ingredients raise the pH, but you need a mash pH of around 5.2 - 5.5, or your brewing efficiency will suck. So you use the salts to get the water profile & flavor characteristics that you want, and then just add acid to get down to the pH that you really need.

I'm out of time to post for now, but later this afternoon I'll get to what does what with the water profile, and even post some screenshots of how to fill out the spreadsheet.
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Ornlu
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2:40p, 1/19/21
AG
Okay, part 2 of 3. Here I'll cover your starting water profile and then how to pick a water profile.

Note: You should measure everything in parts per million or "PPM", which is basically a percentage with the decimal place moved. If everything's in PPM, it's just so much easier. Bru'N Water is already in PPM for everything. There's a bunch of cells at the bottom of the "1. Water report input" tab in the Bru'N water spreadsheet if you need to convert stuff from other units to PPM.

-------------------- Inputting your starting water profile--------------------
Here's the input area in Bru'N Water:

You really only need to fill out the circled values.

  • Distilled water has no mineral content, so if you're using distilled enter all 0's.
  • Most commercial reverse osmosis filters remove between 98% and 99% of minerals. So even if your tap water starts near the EPA's MCL for sodium (41 ppm) or for sulphates (250 ppm), the RO filter will cut it to less than 20. If you just make the scientific wild assed guess (or SWAG) that everything's at 10 for RO water, you'll be fine. RO water usually has a pH of about 7.5 to 8.0. Otherwise, if you want more precise results you'll have to send a sample to a brewing lab
  • In Texas, the chances are that your city tap water's already too high in calcium, sodium, and bicarbonate to hit your target water profile..... so don't use it.


-------------------- Picking a water profile--------------------
Each of the 7 ions has a different effect of the flavor of the beer.
  • Calcium mostly affects the solubility of other stuff. Not enough calcium will cause yeast not to flocculate --> cloudy beer. Too much calcium will taste minerally and lead to beer scale. You want between 30ppm for light colored or "bright" tasting beers to 120ppm for dark or "chewy" beers.
  • Magnesium is needed for yeast health. You want 20 to 40ppm.
  • Sodium affects beer's roundness of flavor. Keep it under 30ppm for most stuff, or ~50ish for Scottish stuff.
  • Sulfates affect hop bite & how perceptible the IBUs are. The real critical part of sulfates is the ratio between sulfates and chloride. For stuff with little-to-no hop character, use a 0.50 sulphate to 1.0 chloride ratio. For IPA and other high-hopped styles, use 2x or even 3x as many sulphates as chlorides. Also, keep the total sulfate number under 150 unless it's an IPA.
  • Chloride affects mouthfeel. Higher chloride brews taste more "silky".
  • Bicarbonate is how "hard" the water is. For brewing, it's main effect is to control total alkalinity and thus how hard it is to change the water's pH.
  • Lastly, pH affects sourness some but, mostly, it affects how efficient your mash extraction is.

So... what do you need to do with all that info?? Just keep it loosly in mind while you pick a water profile out of your calculator. Here's some common examples:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/brewing-water-target-profiles/

Each of these has the ratios of minerals preselected. You can edit them if you want, or just pick one. This is selected on cell A5 of the "4. Water Adjustment" tab in Bru'N water spreadsheet.


-------------------- --------------------

Next time I'll cover how to pick your mineral additions and acidification in order to hit your target water profile.
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Ornlu
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In reply to Chipotlemonger • 3:03p, 1/19/21
AG
Chipotlemonger said:
Not sure if I should say yes or no! Feel like there's potentially a "gotcha" on the way.

I did download and review the Bru'N Water excel file/program. Neat tool. Issue I have is my water report is incomplete. I have chloride and sulfate listed fortunately, but a lot of the other inputs for that sheet are unknown to me.


Regarding your starting water profile, chloride and sulfate are probably the two most important things. For the rest, you'll either have to send it to a brewing lab, or guess. Does it leave scailing/deposits on your bathroom fixtures? Or make coffee extremely bitter?
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fav13andac1)c
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3:27p, 1/19/21
AG
Ornlu, what an absolutely terrific and valuable post. Not only does this break it down to the essentials of water chemistry, but it also gives practical applications in using Bru'N water. I know your post wasn't originally intended for me, but thank you!!
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AlaskanAg99
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3:39p, 1/19/21
AG
Best is to just start with RO, don't try to 'fix' municipal water. This also eliminates chloramines (in Houston or if part of WHCRWA supply) and water is highly variable if coming from a surface source (again, nearly all of Houston). So even if you get it tested, it will not remain the same day after day. Chloramines can lead to cholorphenols (band aid flavor) in beer.

After that, you can break most beers down into 4 or 5 water profiles.
aTm '99
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Chipotlemonger
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6:08p, 1/19/21
AG
Awesome stuff, thank you Ornlu! I will come back later with more input from my water profile. Briefly reading some of the comments, I have what I think is better water overall than what say greater Houston does. Unless RRBC is piping in water from somewhere else, I get the same water as their large Windsor brewery. I think if it's good enough for them it's probably okay for me once I get a better picture of it.
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