That's actually an extremely competitive team if Kyrie comes back as anything like he was before the injury (which is a huge if). No way OKC does it though.
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Also lots of front office malpractice going down around the league if Yaxel makes it to 12. When the only reason a guy is going 12th instead of top 4 is he's 24 people are overthinking it. Hes gonna be a quality NBA starter for a decade.
In a typical draft, you're probably right. But in this draft, you have an obvious top 4 picks, then the next tier is talented guards, which are always going to be rated higher than a super high floor 4.
If there's any overthinking, it's Brooklyn or Atlanta passing on any of the available guards for Ament or Mara. It looks like there is some dumb second guessing going on with Wagler and Flemings.
Golden State would be silly to allow Yaxel to fall past them at 11. That's why I think OKC will want to move up to our spot to make sure they get him.
If there's any overthinking, it's Brooklyn or Atlanta passing on any of the available guards for Ament or Mara. It looks like there is some dumb second guessing going on with Wagler and Flemings.
Golden State would be silly to allow Yaxel to fall past them at 11. That's why I think OKC will want to move up to our spot to make sure they get him.
feels like this could all be masai smoke and mirrors too though? I'm not sure how much of a gamesman he is in regards to pre-draft confusion, but with his resume, I'm sure he's proficient.
I think all this is coming from the agent side, though. Burries and his camp are supposedly refusing workouts for other teams.
zgolfz85 said:
feels like this could all be masai smoke and mirrors too though? I'm not sure how much of a gamesman he is in regards to pre-draft confusion, but with his resume, I'm sure he's proficient.
The old Raptors joke was that Masai wanted all 6'8 guys that could handle the ball. DeRozan, OG Anunoby, Scottie Barnes, Pascal Siakam, etc.
Yaxel at 9 confirmed.
Or much worse... Ament
Vessel said:
Or much worse... Ament
if ament would realize his size and play with even a sniff of confidence, he'd be nails.
my confidence in his near-term confidence is low though.
The Ament hype/spin coming out now is that he added so much muscle between HS and the college season that he still didn't really understand how to play with his new strength. And that he's also added 10-15 more pounds since the end of the season. He just needs reps getting used to his new build.
I will be fully bought in to this narrative if we draft him.
I will be fully bought in to this narrative if we draft him.
Ament showing up to his new team:
I would have no issue taking Nate Ament past pick 15, or if he was my second, first round pick. However, I am under no circumstances taking him anywhere near the top ten as my only first round pick. No chance.
Not sure if I showed you this tool, but you can compare players combine measurements and performances against historical benchmarks.
https://tawnyparkmetrics.com/nba-combine-score
You can also adjust for multiple positions, like Ament as a SF or Ament as a PF.
https://tawnyparkmetrics.com/nba-combine-score
You can also adjust for multiple positions, like Ament as a SF or Ament as a PF.
Vessel said:
The Ament hype/spin coming out now is that he added so much muscle between HS and the college season that he still didn't really understand how to play with his new strength. And that he's also added 10-15 more pounds since the end of the season. He just needs reps getting used to his new build.
I will be fully bought in to this narrative if we draft him.
honestly, in most cases, I'd think that spin was bs. I believe it this time around though. I watched some doc on him and other elite HS prospects before the college season started last year and I think there's something to this. He looked like a 10 yr old in an 18 yr old man's body until probably February at UT. looked as coordinated as a st bernard puppy.
Dylan Harper is gonna be a superstar, and sooner rather than later. One of the most fluid, smooth and aesthetically pleasing players to watch I've ever seen.
****
****
He's very, very good.
What impresses me so much about Harper is how controlled all aspects of his game are. He's got work to do with his three point shot and having some more touch, but everything he does feels so assured. His defense, rounding, movement, handling etc. just feel so solid. Like he's always going to come down with the ball or be in the right spot.
Harper led everyone on both teams in rebounds tonight.
Eight players played more minutes than him.
Eight players played more minutes than him.
It's really not fair that the Spurs have three guys with a combined age of 62 who could ALL be top ten players in the league at some point in their careers. And all with different skill sets that allow them to be played together for long stretches to boot.
This is OKC circa 2011-2012, except even younger and on a better run franchise. If these guys agree to sign contracts that allow them to be kept together for a decade the rest of the league might just be ***t.
This is OKC circa 2011-2012, except even younger and on a better run franchise. If these guys agree to sign contracts that allow them to be kept together for a decade the rest of the league might just be ***t.
Wemby already is a top 10 guy, and probably the best overall player. I think Harper can get there as well just based off what I have seen. I am not sure about Castle. I love his attitude, demeanor, effort, physicality etc. but he has a bit of a Russell Westbrook complex in that he's going to due a handful of great things in a row and then do something really detrimental, or on the other side do quite a few bad things in a row that let a team come back into a game and then in a big spot hit a three to put you back up five or get a huge steal in a final possession.
Playing into that, I wonder what his offensive upside is. His decision making and handle on the ball is pretty poor at times and I think as good as he's been defensively he's also killed the Spurs at times. Again not saying he's not a good player and he's young, he most definitely is, but I don't think he's quite at the level of potential level of top 10 guy in the NBA.
Playing into that, I wonder what his offensive upside is. His decision making and handle on the ball is pretty poor at times and I think as good as he's been defensively he's also killed the Spurs at times. Again not saying he's not a good player and he's young, he most definitely is, but I don't think he's quite at the level of potential level of top 10 guy in the NBA.
I don't think Castle will be a top 10 player in the NBA, but he's already a top 10 defender. He was 4th highest voted guard for All-Defense this year after Derrick White, Cason Wallace, and Dyson Daniels. Castle was also 6th in APG. He needs to cut turnovers a bit and improve shot selection. He was around 33% from three for the season, but actually 42% after the ASB when he stopped taking pull up threes. He's shooting 40% off C&S threes in the playoffs and shot 37% off C&S for the regular season (46% after the ASB.)
Castle's offense is highly dependent on his physical driving and he really needs to add some finesse and step back middies to that to really unlock himself as a scorer. I have much more confidence that Harper will do that than Castle. Castle also really needs to get a pull up three so that everyone doesn't just go under screens for him. But for now, shooting the C&S at a high rate helps.
All-NBA is certainly a possibility for him, but I think more likely for Harper and having three All-NBA players is incredibly difficult. Only one ball. Harper just has the much higher ceiling. But they are 20 and 21, so who knows what really is the limit for either. Most PGs take the leap in year 3-5. This was Castle's 2nd.
Castle's offense is highly dependent on his physical driving and he really needs to add some finesse and step back middies to that to really unlock himself as a scorer. I have much more confidence that Harper will do that than Castle. Castle also really needs to get a pull up three so that everyone doesn't just go under screens for him. But for now, shooting the C&S at a high rate helps.
All-NBA is certainly a possibility for him, but I think more likely for Harper and having three All-NBA players is incredibly difficult. Only one ball. Harper just has the much higher ceiling. But they are 20 and 21, so who knows what really is the limit for either. Most PGs take the leap in year 3-5. This was Castle's 2nd.
I'm gonna puke if I read more about how great the spurs are on the mavs thread
Completely agree. And I don't mean this as hating on Castle at all. Again, I really like the guy, but his defense has been his saving grace so far at times this playoffs. He's such an elite defender he somewhat offsets the giveaways and blunders on the offensive side of the court., especially in the OKC series and in games 1 and 2 of the Finals. He 100% has All-NBA and All-Defensive Team upside.
Flagg >>> Castle
Well you're in luck, because I am starting to feel like one or two of the elite guards like Flemings, Wagler or Brown could fall in the draft towards the Mavs. But funny enough I am increasingly liking the idea of the Mavs adding Burries no matter what at nine.
When I am watching the finals I do a sort of exercise like "if the Mavs were here, could I see XX playing significant minutes for either of these teams in this spot" and the more I think about it the more I am convinced guys like Burries, Flemings, and Wagler could. I have a few more reservations and questions with Brown and Acuff.
When I am watching the finals I do a sort of exercise like "if the Mavs were here, could I see XX playing significant minutes for either of these teams in this spot" and the more I think about it the more I am convinced guys like Burries, Flemings, and Wagler could. I have a few more reservations and questions with Brown and Acuff.
Yea, I like Burries the most too of the five guards. I think he's the most "playoff basketball" ready and would love to see him on OKC.
My Deluxe "never gonna happen" idea of the day for OKC is:
1) Dangle Ajay to Memphis as a backfill for Ja (who's gone). Throw in 12, 17 and a goodie bag of future picks for #3 and take Boozer. Although it's starting to feel possible that Boozer won't be there at 3.
2) Trade Chet to Atlanta for 8 and take Burries to backfill Ajay.
Then we lock in four years of SGA, Dub, Boozer and Burries for $25m per year less than SGA, Dub, Chet and Ajay, not even taking into account a raise for Ajay after 2028. Gives us more flexibility to lock up Hart/Cason long term and/or work on pre-emptive extensions for Jaywill/McCain/Topic.
My Deluxe "never gonna happen" idea of the day for OKC is:
1) Dangle Ajay to Memphis as a backfill for Ja (who's gone). Throw in 12, 17 and a goodie bag of future picks for #3 and take Boozer. Although it's starting to feel possible that Boozer won't be there at 3.
2) Trade Chet to Atlanta for 8 and take Burries to backfill Ajay.
Then we lock in four years of SGA, Dub, Boozer and Burries for $25m per year less than SGA, Dub, Chet and Ajay, not even taking into account a raise for Ajay after 2028. Gives us more flexibility to lock up Hart/Cason long term and/or work on pre-emptive extensions for Jaywill/McCain/Topic.
I like how the Mavs thread is turning into the Basketball Other forum safe space
Deluxe said:
I like how the Mavs thread is turning into the Basketball Other forum safe space
I like the Mavs fine, even as a Spurs fan. You can't not love Dirk and I liked Luka as well and it seems like with Flagg you have another likeable star. Rocket fans can **** off.
Forget the nice things I said about pinche spurs yesterday. Wemby is a punk. I still like Harper. I've never bought into any NBA conspiracy theories but Castle not getting a flagrant for this, while Brunson gets a flagrant on a 3 closeout makes me say hmmm. Knicks in 6.
NoahAg said:
Forget the nice things I said about pinche spurs yesterday. Wemby is a punk. I still like Harper. I've never bought into any NBA conspiracy theories but Castle not getting a flagrant for this, while Brunson gets a flagrant on a 3 closeout makes me say hmmm. Knicks in 6.
LMAO, tell me you've never played ball without telling me you've never played ball. There is no way anyone is getting a flagrant called on a play like that. That same play happens about 20 times per game of organized basketball. It was a solid flop to sell the contact by Brunson, and absolutely should be called a foul, but this is clearly not a flagrant as was evident to the refs upon review.
There are certainly worse fouls deserving of flagrants. But there's a difference between guys banging down low or incidental contact through the paint and something like this. There's no "basketball play" here. From the moment Castle moved, his intent was to run into Brunson. Had he just kept his arm down I'd be fine with the common foul.
What's really troublesome is giving Brunson a flagrant for his closeout after letting this go. I can live with letting both slide.
Just saying, b/t this, Wemby getting away with blatant shoves, and the overall foul call disparity I can see how conspiracy theorists are thinking "Adam Silver made a call and said, fellas, we need to extend the series."
Now, to be unbiased, I thought the offensive foul call when Keldon "pushed" Mitchel Robinson into Wemby's 3 pointer was kinda weak.
What's really troublesome is giving Brunson a flagrant for his closeout after letting this go. I can live with letting both slide.
Just saying, b/t this, Wemby getting away with blatant shoves, and the overall foul call disparity I can see how conspiracy theorists are thinking "Adam Silver made a call and said, fellas, we need to extend the series."
Now, to be unbiased, I thought the offensive foul call when Keldon "pushed" Mitchel Robinson into Wemby's 3 pointer was kinda weak.
If that's not a flagrant, I don't know what a flagrant is. Saying tell me you haven't played ball without telling me in regards to opining that that's a flagrant icing on top doc. Turns out you can't bring a football play onto the basketball court. You can't go solely after the player and not make an attempt on the ball. That's pretty textbook.
The basketball play is Castle bodied Brunson for rebound positioning. Go back and watch yesterday's game. Watch every time someone crashes for offensive rebounds. I can guarantee that nearly every other time, they are creating contact with the defense to get them off balance and create room for them to get the offensive board. The difference between those instances and this is the flop to sell contact. If Brunson doesn't flop, I doubt this is even called a foul even if you could make the legitimate case that it is.
And although I do think Spurs got a favorable whistle in game 2, I thought it was pretty evenly called last night. KAT got away with murder for most of the night. Go back and watch him on the 2nd or 3rd to last possession. Yes, Wemby should have been called for a flagrant, but they missed it because KJ and KAT were having a scuffle of their own at the exact same time.
Pointing to free throw disparity in isolation is silly. Knicks don't crash the paint while Wemby is on the court. Spurs crash the paint constantly, to the point that our two young guards are nicknamed the "slash bros". Of course the team that is generating more contact on the offensive end is going to have more free throws.
And although I do think Spurs got a favorable whistle in game 2, I thought it was pretty evenly called last night. KAT got away with murder for most of the night. Go back and watch him on the 2nd or 3rd to last possession. Yes, Wemby should have been called for a flagrant, but they missed it because KJ and KAT were having a scuffle of their own at the exact same time.
Pointing to free throw disparity in isolation is silly. Knicks don't crash the paint while Wemby is on the court. Spurs crash the paint constantly, to the point that our two young guards are nicknamed the "slash bros". Of course the team that is generating more contact on the offensive end is going to have more free throws.
NoahAg said:
There are certainly worse fouls deserving of flagrants. But there's a difference between guys banging down low or incidental contact through the paint and something like this. There's no "basketball play" here. From the moment Castle moved, his intent was to run into Brunson. Had he just kept his arm down I'd be fine with the common foul.
I had this thought too. One of the broadcasters said it was like taking a charge on a ballhandler. I didn't see it that way at all, because I thought Castle's sole intent was to put Brunson on the ground. We do have to infer a little, so maybe the refs didn't want to do play the game of attributing motive.
Quote:
What's really troublesome is giving Brunson a flagrant for his closeout after letting this go. I can live with letting both slide.
Hated this call and thought it's not the purpose of the Zaza rule. There was a sequence later in the game where the same thing happened to Clarkson, I think, with no call, then he got called for a non-foul on the other end on the ensuing Spurs possession.
Quote:
Just saying, b/t this, Wemby getting away with blatant shoves, and the overall foul call disparity I can see how conspiracy theorists are thinking "Adam Silver made a call and said, fellas, we need to extend the series."
At one point in the 4th Q, the 2nd half FTs were 18 to 3 for the Spurs. Brunson was in foul trouble in the 3rd quarter and the Spurs were in the penalty 3 minutes in to the 4th quarter.
The Knicks were absolutely fouling the Spurs, but they weren't calling the Spurs for similarly physical play. Everybody was grabbing and shoving everybody on every rebound attempt. Keep it consistent.
Quote:
Now, to be unbiased, I thought the offensive foul call when Keldon "pushed" Mitchel Robinson into Wemby's 3 pointer was kinda weak.
Keldon shoved the guy and it resulted in Robinson fouling Wemby for a 4 point play. It was either call Keldon for the push (which is absolutely illegal) or give the Spurs a 4 point play because Robinson got pushed in to Wemby. They got it right. Also Knicks had to keep challenging terrible calls and eventually ran out of challenges despite winning all of them. What a dumb rule.
Then it would appear you don't know what a flagrant is. You don't have to take just my opinion for it. Refs agreed, commentators agreed outside of RJ, I believe, and basically everyone on the internet outside of this thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1u0rf0z/highlights_stephon_castle_shoves_brunson_to_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1u0rf0z/highlights_stephon_castle_shoves_brunson_to_the/
I really don't care enough to argue about it as if I'm a Knicks apologist. I did tell my teenage son last night, in commenting how physical the game was (which I think is great), that LeBron couldn't hang in a series like this. He'd have been crying to the refs and commissioner about getting fouled.
And to keep this a MAVS thread, I'll say the 2024 Mavs would beat both of these teams in a best of 7.
And to keep this a MAVS thread, I'll say the 2024 Mavs would beat both of these teams in a best of 7.
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