No joke brother I feel your pain. I got my oldest two (5 and 4 by about two weeks at the time) up the chairlift and actually making some turns last year.

Have a 5 day old and two other younger ones that can't ski yet (3 and 18 mos) so every excuse to not make it happen this year but just refusing that because I don't want them to miss a year. We're all in for about what you are. Just telling myself it'll be worth it when they are 14 and laying down tracks like I never could

I know that's Colorado focused but if the fall helps me get a place in whitefish in a few years I'll allow it

I just ordered outdoormaster goggles for all my kids. Buddy of mine has been using them for a couple years now and likes them. Kids are hard on goggles, half the time they are flopping down their back, at $20 a pair it won't bother me

Charismatic Megafauna said:

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I just ordered outdoormaster goggles for all my kids. Buddy of mine has been using them for a couple years now and likes them. Kids are hard on goggles, half the time they are flopping down their back, at $20 a pair it won't bother me

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That's how I looked at it.

https://www.vaildaily.com/news/colorado-real-estate-market-winter-slowdown/

We havent seen much of a slow down in Vail or Ridgway. Aspen has slowed considerably though.

Our places are up like 225% since 2018. The market probs needs a cool off honestly. I don't see them falling to pre COVID vales any time soon though. It feels like when an in town unit goes for sale for $500,000 or less a bedroom they sells in less than 2 weeks. It's the megamasions that have slowed dramatically. Condos are still selling like wild fire

SW Colorado is one area I am looking at for my semi-retirement. A big market drop and reset is great news for me. The problem is they built way too many high cost luxury homes and condos instead of affordable mountain getaways or homes accessible to local residents. Al targeted at rental investment

When I make the move, I'll live there, and am looking at more rural space away from town itself in the valleys. A different market than an investment property

MouthBQ98 said:

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SW Colorado is one area I am looking at for my semi-retirement. A big market drop and reset is great news for me. The problem is they built way too many high cost luxury homes and condos instead of affordable mountain getaways or homes accessible to local residents. Al targeted at rental investment

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Bingo! When single family homes start to be valued on rental rate cap rates, you've got a problem. You can get away with that on MFH because occupancy rates can be more diversified. For a SFH, it's either rented, or not.

And yes, the mega mansions built in droves can only go so far. Interest rates aren't helping I'm sure since the rise in those has almost doubled mortgage payments. Hard to swallow that for a vacation home.

Esta manana. Oh Canada! Ay guey. Great conditions up in Quebec right now. We were knee + deep for most of the weekend.

BIG snow coming to Southern and SW Colorado 11/30 - 12/3. Then a little bit but nothing crazy through 12/9. 25/40 inches for SW/Central. Rest of the State expected to pick up 10/15. If this holds, Sawatch and 70 mountains Will really need a solid roller before Christmas or It's Gonna be ribbons of death. Still early so fingers crossed.

My mid Dec trip to Purg/WC is looking way more hopeful now.

Backcountry admirar.

Awesome. Lynx kitty.

The wolf creek webcams are already looking pretty good. A nice kick start of early season.

Getting a ton of precip here on the outskirts of the springs right now but doesn't look like it's hitting any of the I-70 corridor unfortunately. Looks like Monarch might be picking up some inches.

For us renters, and I may have asked this before but forgot...is there really any difference between "Premium" vs "Performance' vs "Sport" vs etc. when booking a ski+boot package? Or is it all the same gear, regardless of what was booked? (maybe with an idiot/Texan tax)

Panda gave some well heeded guidance a year ago on this topic and I'm gonna paraphrase: all that mid tier stuff is just marketing/up charge.

If you know what you're doing just spend the extra $20 a day to get on a nice demo set and you won't regret it

Usually the three tier system is setup for one of two reasons:

First: it allows the store to upcharge entry level gear that is just a blip above essentially instructional level gear or is instructional level gear just that years line. The Middle tier helps create margin.

What they will do is label new entry level gear as mid level package and the older hand me down entry level as their base package. They take a new ski that should be $50/day and rent it for $70 then rent then year or two old that should rent for $35 at $60. Then they will have the demo package that's a $70/80 dollar a day ski and rent it for $90/100. Essentially tier One and two are the same net net and not really at a Technology level that you're going to see any sort of performance up grade from the newer year. Where as your demos may change tech every couple.

If you go to a two tier store you may pay more for the bottom but you should compare that base price to the mid tier price of the three tier shop because that's basicslly what you're getting. Where you get the benefit is they won't have the demos marked up as much on a two tier because the Middle tier isn't inflating it. Base may be $60/70 but then demos are only $70/80. So you're walking out with better gear for less.

Second: they don't want to spend the extra money on demo skis because of the cost. Thus they have a smaller demo section but don't care because their margin is highest on the mid level. So the more mid level that go out and the more they can steer people into it, the better their margin.

Essentially the mid tier is like mid grade gas. It can't run a premium engine but Itll run a regular engine but won't run it better than if you user regular.

I tend to shy away from stories that use a three tier package unless their demos are just fire (black crows, line, prodigy, etc) and the base package is NEW or 1 year old rossi exps. Then it makes sense because the mid level ski is actually a demo ski just not as boutique of a demo.

If theirs an exp or maverick etc in the mid range - that's a red flag to gtfo. Those are day 1 Learn to ski skis.

So if we book demo/highest tier, we would actually get different equipment? I guess after a few years renting, I started feeling like whatever we booked, we got the same selection as the guy in front of/behind us, regardless of what we reserved. And I get it from the shop's perspective - just trying to educate ourselves now.

Full disclosure, we'll be in Crested Butte in Feb and are planning to rent from Black Tie since they'll bring it to our condo and we get a discount. They might have crap equipment (I have no idea)...but probably better than the mountain rentals and we're green/blue skiers.

In the end, I'm just trying to figure out if we're paying more than we need to for the same equipment a as those that choose the cheapest option are.

How Good are You?

Black ties top level is for skiers that are Very Good.

BT is a shop that will have a different between each level. They would be one of the very very very few. They have very very nice gear. In Vail and BC, BT is the premier in terms of quality. Honestly their premium skis are better than ours but that's because they go more boutique.

I would honestly say most people on this thread would be stoked with their middle package and blown away but honestly probs wouldn't be at the level to appreciate know / feel the difference between Middle and premium unless you ski more than a couple times a year.

BT is EXPENSIVE for that reason. Their top line minus the rental bindings are gear that we would use as locals and pros not just demo level gear. It's like the equivalent of demo plus.

They have the rental skis you usually won't see anyone else using snd if you do it's because the shop had like one pair: , elan, black crows, etc vs Rossi EXP, Mavens, Enforcers, Santa Anas, Head Kore, etc.

BT may have 10/20 Pairs.

My rock skis are a Black Crow Demo set I traded yoga classes for from One of the owners of black tie

Great to hear. Thanks for your feedback. We'll feel better now if we (at least some of us) decide to upgrade that we're actually getting our money's worth.

Hey can you give some recs on demos to get on this year by the way?

I checked out some MFree 99's a couple years back on your recommendation. Loved them and intrigued with the new 100s. Skied some M7's last year and they needed too much input for me. Did a couple days on some Rustler 9's last year and loved those.

I'm an intermediate/advanced skier. Love off piste terrain and prefer maneuverability and playfulness over big lines. I also spend a lot of time with side hits and trees on groomers with the slower members of the fam.

PS I'll be skiing summit co in March - going to be a family trip and only time I get out this year so trying to make the most of it

Thats smells like a twin tip rocker camber rocker that's a little stiff but still playful in the trees and side jibs. Black Crows Atrius at a 105 - thats that kinds ski thatll date your mom and you still love it in public. It's a true 105 so not an everyday for most people and at 105 they're at times a little tight for tight trees if it's not too but they run and play hard.

Black Crows Camox 97 are fun but chatter on a steep vert and sometimes pop a little too playful for me in the trees. They like to fit into small places where snow snakes reside. Great ski but Flex out fast. Amazing new but chatty after a couple too many drinks.

Prodigy 3.0s are stunning in a 106. Not as verstile as a 106 but fun if you can control them. Time and place kinda ski.

A new addition this year that ive really found to be a solid sauce is the Elan Playmaker 101. I think you would really like them. I've been crushing on them hard. Might be one one of the everyday sets soon.

Have You ever ridden on Line's? They're great.

Brands: I'd stay away from would be Nordica, Volkl, Kastle. Three great brands but they want to want downhill and not hop around like a drunk rabbit on nitrous.

I'd stay away from anything in the Birdie line of Black Crows. Everyone know I love BCs but the Birdies just don't fly for me.

Hope that helps!

Any thoughts on the QST 100/106?

Love the sound of the Atris 105. What do you not like about the prodigy 106?

Personally - We call them the Quit Skiing Today. They are a love or hate ski. Some people love them other people hate them and there seems to be no Middle ground. They're very similar to the BC Atris which is my almost everyday ski. I personally much prefer the Atris to the QSTs. I feel like they float better, the radios is a bit longer but the ski feels more responsive so I can hold a turn better / more consistant and not subconsciously drive into it, flat ten it out it and fight through it.

So my legs last alot longer on the Atris which adds up over a couple days.

What do you recommend from Line given what I told you?

Couldn't agree more on the Volkl, et al. Those M7s were great skis but woof they wore me out. We got nuked on in copper last year like 20" in late March and those were the wrong skis for that weather

I remembered a year or so back you made the Quit Skiing remark so I was always cautious about them. Ok thanks for the detail

I Love them - I have them both. Prodigy is just more ski to carry. The Atris is more versitle IMO. It's a partial/directional TT so holds Up a little better all mountain and on hard pack. Atris I'd say are more powerful but still float really well.

Prodigy is a park powder ski IMO. Atris is those two plus all mountain. Prodigy struggle compared to the Atris of the conditions are front side groomers or chop chop. If you're taking tree lines, they have to be really really right for sex turn to catch up on you. I've had it happen less than a couple times and I usually could feel it before I dropped but I was following friends and couldnt pony out.

If you like the MFree 99 my guy then please check out the Elan Playmaker 101s you'll love them. If you can find either one I think you'll be happy.

I think BT or Gorsuch carry the Atris. They have in the past and unless they stopped running black crows I'd imagine they still do. They may carry the Elans too.

Buzz's may have them in Vail Village.

Is there anywhere in Breck that demos BC's? Was fully ready to take out the Rustler 9s or MFree 100s but you've got be intrigued because playful twin tip plus front side chop is kinda exactly what I'm looking for

Yeah was just reading on the Playmakers and they fit the bill too.

Skiing Breck in March. I know your thoughts and n Breck but it was a family decision and I got voted down lol. Still better than not skiing and the oldest two are ready to get back on skis again so it's all good for a bunch of Jerry's from Houston

Line Prodigy 106

Not sure if you're single, but put them on and by 4th chair you'll have 3 ladies. Their milk Shake brings the boys to the yard.

They are more playful than the Atris.

It's close to A Basin too jaja.

I should make a ski chart for people with different brands and lines within them.

Something like Playful/Stiff, Floaters/Drivers and What conditions they're best in.

That way When I get this same question in Dec/January/Feb/March I can just say refer to figure 1 jaja

Slumpbuster snow should reach Wolf Creek, Telluride anPurgatory Over the next 2 weeks - 40+ inches expected

Sadly, that's not the case of the rest of the state. Literally just south of Monarch Pass projects 40-50 inches. Just North and you're at 8-12. So Monarch, 70, Steamboat, Aspen 4 expect maybe a ft to 16 on the top top top end.

I spent a lot of time watching the SkiExpress guys and RicketySki review a bunch of skis before I bought. Of course everyone has their own opinions and preferences but it was useful to gauge relative qualities of different brands/models/lines of skis. I like the skiexpress website as they give info on the tip waist tail and rocker/camber profile and their rating as to the category of skier the ski is targeted at.

There are basically two categories of renters: relatively inexperienced skiers that go one or twice a year and aren't experienced or good enough to really test or notice the limitations of cheaper beginner focused equipment, and then experienced skiers that may even have their own gear but are traveling to ski and didn't feel like bringing it all along, and know exactly what they want to get, and would be renting demos. They might even be testing skis for a future purchase. Two different categories.

I think with skis, as you go cheaper on the rental, not only are the skis getting to be more beginner/intermediate targeted, but they've got both more days of use and more damage. Granted they probably ptex the worst of it and maybe grind and edge them if needed but skis are partly to mostly wood still and use wears out the fibers in it and they lose some performance with a lot of use. A single season demo ski might only go out 20 or 30 days in an entire season and have plenty of life left. A popular size of basic level ski will be pretty well used. A beginner wouldn't notice but an experienced skier would feel the softness and lack of response.

I'm only a skier and never been in the business but I imagine some shops sell the used demos to get new demos in the next year, and some shops rotate them into the lower tier as they get lots of days and pick up dings and minor damage, so the basic level could be older demos or less old "made for rental" ones.

I pretty quickly decided with my own odd shaped feet, I needed my own boots and from there I went to my own skis and full kit pretty fast. Now I have a frontside set, an all mountain set, and have a spot for a future powder capable set, but I'm a drive to ski guy so bringing them along is easy vs flying.

We run about 50% novice and then 50% demo. Within demo you then have it split between womens and mens which you don't have on entry level. Demos usually get replaced every 3 years. Good shops replace novice gear every 2 because of the amount of use. It really depends on where your clients skill level though. I know some that will keep them for 4/5 though. I'd say average is probs 3 with most shops only keeping the very best for year three or excess holiday inventory.

The demos overall I would say get run harder because they're the same car rental Customer that wants a premium car to actually drive it vs just get to the store but they overall are more aware of their surroundings.

NOW that doesn't mean the EXPs Don't get destroyed. It's just a different kind of destruction. More bases ground from walking on pavement and completely broken skis. Far less PTEX because they don't really go into the trees. If it's PTex it's usually from them running over hella rocks or skiing over dirt pathes.

Good info to know. That makes sense different levels of skier are hard on the equipment in different ways.

Dude I would pay for that. That's a great idea.

In all seriousness, a lot of reviews online shy away too much from being critical - like you read/watch QST reviews and you'll hear ALL the good and very little of the bad. That's why I like picking your brain on it because you give the unfiltered

You're talking about the Faction Prodigy 3's here right? Not the Line Pandora 106s?