What is this date exactly: "the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register"
Has that date happened yet?
Has that date happened yet?
Update on pistol brace?
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Last: 4 mo ago by tandy miller
Some of the videos I've seen speculate Monday
Monday is a holiday, so my guess is Tuesday…El Chupacabra said:
What is this date exactly: "the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register"
Has that date happened yet?
El Chupacabra said:
Trust faqs.
Question 12
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download
Page 16 question 27
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/eformone-externalguidancewithqapdf/download
My question, what constitutes ownership or possession in a trust? Is that simply adding it to an amendment and notarizing?
Yes - it just needs to have been added to the trust before the publish date. Now has this rule really been published yet or has that not officially happened yet?
Just so I'm clear, we have a bunch of folks with now illegal weapons that the atf has zero clue even exist but folks are going to go ahead and try to register them so the atf now knows and has documentation of said firearm? That seems …. Foolish. Why am I wrong? The atf really expects people to just up and turn over documentation of their stuff? What happened to all those boating accidents? What is the motivation to register a weapon no one even knows you currently have?
Because they are banking that gun owners are law abiding citizens and if it becomes illegal they will comply
The ATF already knows we have them unless it was an 80% milled out by you.
I had already planned on filing a few SBRs to my trust. If I can't form 1 to my Trust for free then I probably won't SBR through the free stamp. Not really sure on this one yet.
I had already planned on filing a few SBRs to my trust. If I can't form 1 to my Trust for free then I probably won't SBR through the free stamp. Not really sure on this one yet.
Why does the ATF know you have it? You registered a non NFA item willingly? I'm just trying to understand how any of these are known to exist and by whine they are owned.
Also, what about the ones that have changed hands 3 times with nothing more than a envelope of cash and a name scribbled on a napkin?
Also, what about the ones that have changed hands 3 times with nothing more than a envelope of cash and a name scribbled on a napkin?
Believe the free one applies to individual only. Not trust.
Seems to me, a bunch of 13.7-14.5 pin and welds are about to be done.
Somewhat. It's just the lower. They have zero clue what the upper is.
But i get what you're saying.
But i get what you're saying.
SMM48 said:
Somewhat. It's just the lower. They have zero clue what the upper is.
But i get what you're saying.
But also, to be clear, and I think we discussed this before, that information is not easily accessible by the atf right? Alls that is supposed to magically disappear OR atf have to locate the dealer and hope they still have the paper copies after the atf finally get their disorganized **** together?
I have zero understanding of why an SBR or braced pistol even exists or is appealing but that's not my business and it doesn't matter. The whole thing chaps my ass and I'm firmly in the F you camp.
Go shoot a CZ Scorpion and get back to me.BrazosDog02 said:SMM48 said:
Somewhat. It's just the lower. They have zero clue what the upper is.
But i get what you're saying.
But also, to be clear, and I think we discussed this before, that information is not easily accessible by the atf right? Alls that is supposed to magically disappear OR atf have to locate the dealer and hope they still have the paper copies after the atf finally get their disorganized **** together?
I have zero understanding of why an SBR or braced pistol even exists or is appealing but that's not my business and it doesn't matter. The whole thing chaps my ass and I'm firmly in the F you camp.
BrazosDog02 said:
I have zero understanding of why an SBR or braced pistol even exists or is appealing
I'm glad you're on the "right side" of this whole situation but, what????? You seriously don't understand why someone would ever want a rifle shorter than 16"??
Crap. Defund the NFA.
Guitarsoup said:Go shoot a CZ Scorpion and get back to me.BrazosDog02 said:SMM48 said:
Somewhat. It's just the lower. They have zero clue what the upper is.
But i get what you're saying.
But also, to be clear, and I think we discussed this before, that information is not easily accessible by the atf right? Alls that is supposed to magically disappear OR atf have to locate the dealer and hope they still have the paper copies after the atf finally get their disorganized **** together?
I have zero understanding of why an SBR or braced pistol even exists or is appealing but that's not my business and it doesn't matter. The whole thing chaps my ass and I'm firmly in the F you camp.
My CZ is one of my favorites.
GeorgiAg said:
Crap. Defund the NFA.
You voted for this. Own it.
Guitarsoup said:Go shoot a CZ Scorpion and get back to me.BrazosDog02 said:SMM48 said:
Somewhat. It's just the lower. They have zero clue what the upper is.
But i get what you're saying.
But also, to be clear, and I think we discussed this before, that information is not easily accessible by the atf right? Alls that is supposed to magically disappear OR atf have to locate the dealer and hope they still have the paper copies after the atf finally get their disorganized **** together?
I have zero understanding of why an SBR or braced pistol even exists or is appealing but that's not my business and it doesn't matter. The whole thing chaps my ass and I'm firmly in the F you camp.
They are fun. That's fine. So are bumpstocks. I don't care. You like them, you should have them without a bunch of penalizing bull***** That's another discussion. I want to understand how much the ATF actually and practically knows about what we buy and how much is accessible from a realistic standpoint tomorrow, or next week, or in a decade. I want to know why they can lose a crate full of M14 rifles, or leave a Blackhawk helicopter for the taliban but all of a sudden some ******** in a suit can pull up the purchase history of a law abiding citizen who wants to poke holes in paper, have some fun, and be left alone.
I have a few friends with them and one is looking into whatever he needs to play the game and the other is saying **** it and doing nothing. One will be a felon and one will be a good boy who the atf now has knowledge of his stuff.
This whole thing is ****ed. These *******s decide full auto are scary…nfa….then bumpstocks…nfa…kinda backtracked that…then SBR……then braced firearms with barrels shorter than 16"….then stocked arms with barrels longer than 16"……all with the stroke of a pen.
They don't have to ban anything. They just make them get tied up with red tape. And anyone that doesn't want to comply won't be able to haul them out to range out of fear. I'm just disgusted with the whole thing. These *******s can't even write laws.
SMM48 said:
Believe the free one applies to individual only. Not trust.
From https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/eformone-externalguidancewithqapdf/download
From question 27:
Quote:
Under the final rule, the Attorney General has authorized a tax forbearance that allows current possessors of firearms equipped with a "stabilizing brace" that meet the definition of "rifle" and have a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches to register the firearms tax-free. A current possessor is a person who possessed the firearm with an attached "stabilizing brace" prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register.
Accordingly, any trust that seeks to register a firearm with an attached "stabilizing brace" that is a short-barreled rifle pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F must include with the eForm 1 application evidence that establishes the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. This evidence will generally include the signed, dated, and notarized terms of the trust or trust schedules that list or provide a description of the property held in trust. For trust applicants, ATF will perform a thorough review of the trust documents provided with the eForm 1 application to ensure the firearm sought to be registered to the trust was property possessed by the trust prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Therefore, an eForm 1 application to register a firearm equipped with a "stabilizing brace" to a trust will be disapproved if the applicant fails to demonstrate the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published Federal Register.
Also, they seem to have clarified the "does my SBR need to be engraved" question:
Quote:
A firearm that is not marked, such as a privately made firearm (PMF), must be marked in accordance with the maker marking requirements under 27 CFR 479.102(a) before submission of the eForm1. However, if the firearm is already marked, the person registering the firearm pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F may adopt all of the original manufacturer or importer markings when registering the firearm, to include the name, city, and state of the original manufacturer or importer as identified on the frame or receiver of the firearm.
I don't know about you'll - but I'm gonna go find a notary and add all my braced guns into my trust today just in case the real publish date is later this week and not last week (it seems it is signed and submitted but not yet officially published). No harm, no foul if some legal action puts this to a halt in the next couple months, but if not...
From the Jan 13th announcement:
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-braces
Quote:
Please note that this is the text of the final rule as signed by the Attorney General, but the official version of the final rule will be as it is published in the Federal Register. The rule will go into effect once it is published in the Federal Register.
https://signalhillsupplyco.com/products/defund-the-atf-shirt?variant=44403873480996
Incase "people" show up to your casa
Incase "people" show up to your casa
The 16" barrel length restriction was created because short guns were "easier to conceal".
A 16" barreled bullpup and a 10.5" AR with a brace are the exact same length.
One requires no tax stamp, and the other will make you a felon without one soon. Because "easily concealed rifles/shotguns" are "dangerous".
This insanity will only stop if people stop complying with idiotic laws and stop voting for people who support idiotic laws.
A 16" barreled bullpup and a 10.5" AR with a brace are the exact same length.
One requires no tax stamp, and the other will make you a felon without one soon. Because "easily concealed rifles/shotguns" are "dangerous".
This insanity will only stop if people stop complying with idiotic laws and stop voting for people who support idiotic laws.
This part is interesting and a flip back to the ATF's stance in the late 90s/early 2000s. I don't think any of my personally registered SBRs are marked since they were registered mostly in the early 2000s.javajaws said:SMM48 said:
Believe the free one applies to individual only. Not trust.
Also, they seem to have clarified the "does my SBR need to be engraved" question:Quote:
A firearm that is not marked, such as a privately made firearm (PMF), must be marked in accordance with the maker marking requirements under 27 CFR 479.102(a) before submission of the eForm1. However, if the firearm is already marked, the person registering the firearm pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F may adopt all of the original manufacturer or importer markings when registering the firearm, to include the name, city, and state of the original manufacturer or importer as identified on the frame or receiver of the firearm.
I hope they keep that stance for all Form 1 guns built off existing receivers going forward.
ATF says 10 to 40 million braced illegal unregistered sbrs in the wild in the last decade.
Crime rate with rifles is unchanged, despite millions of super scary short unregistered guns floating around for 10+ years.
Wants to put you in jail for owning something they said was okay for a decade, now that they have changed their minds…even though crime hasnt changed.
Why the hell do we tolerate this?
Crime rate with rifles is unchanged, despite millions of super scary short unregistered guns floating around for 10+ years.
Wants to put you in jail for owning something they said was okay for a decade, now that they have changed their minds…even though crime hasnt changed.
Why the hell do we tolerate this?
javajaws said:SMM48 said:
Believe the free one applies to individual only. Not trust.
From https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/eformone-externalguidancewithqapdf/download
From question 27:Quote:
Under the final rule, the Attorney General has authorized a tax forbearance that allows current possessors of firearms equipped with a "stabilizing brace" that meet the definition of "rifle" and have a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches to register the firearms tax-free. A current possessor is a person who possessed the firearm with an attached "stabilizing brace" prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register.
Accordingly, any trust that seeks to register a firearm with an attached "stabilizing brace" that is a short-barreled rifle pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F must include with the eForm 1 application evidence that establishes the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. This evidence will generally include the signed, dated, and notarized terms of the trust or trust schedules that list or provide a description of the property held in trust. For trust applicants, ATF will perform a thorough review of the trust documents provided with the eForm 1 application to ensure the firearm sought to be registered to the trust was property possessed by the trust prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Therefore, an eForm 1 application to register a firearm equipped with a "stabilizing brace" to a trust will be disapproved if the applicant fails to demonstrate the trust possessed the firearm prior to the date the final rule is published Federal Register.
Also, they seem to have clarified the "does my SBR need to be engraved" question:Quote:
A firearm that is not marked, such as a privately made firearm (PMF), must be marked in accordance with the maker marking requirements under 27 CFR 479.102(a) before submission of the eForm1. However, if the firearm is already marked, the person registering the firearm pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F may adopt all of the original manufacturer or importer markings when registering the firearm, to include the name, city, and state of the original manufacturer or importer as identified on the frame or receiver of the firearm.
I don't know about you'll - but I'm gonna go find a notary and add all my braced guns into my trust today just in case the real publish date is later this week and not last week (it seems it is signed and submitted but not yet officially published). No harm, no foul if some legal action puts this to a halt in the next couple months, but if not...
From the Jan 13th announcement:
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-bracesQuote:
Please note that this is the text of the final rule as signed by the Attorney General, but the official version of the final rule will be as it is published in the Federal Register. The rule will go into effect once it is published in the Federal Register.
I just started the process to do the free Form 1. When I clicked 'register as trust' a warning box popped up and said the trust had to show it owned the firearm prior to January 13th. So for trust purposes, it had to be signed and notarized into the trust in January 12 or earlier.
That's a load of horse**** and makes the free stamps useless for most people. I'm not registering anything as an individual that can't be passed on to my heirs without them going through the form 4 process and paying $200 per item. Furthermore the number of people that have their non NFA items listed in a trust has to be extremely small.
The box that popped up went on to state that any individual that registered could transfer to trust via form 4 and paying the $200 stamp.
I did not finish the process, fyi, just curious about the trust stuff.
I did not finish the process, fyi, just curious about the trust stuff.
https://texasguntrust.com/should-i-assign-my-non-nfa-firearms-to-my-gun-trust.html
Something to consider on non-NFA firearms.
Something to consider on non-NFA firearms.
This whole thing is idiotic. Pandering at its finest
They already said it just had to be in pending status
They also said the other day braces weren't an issue
aggieforester05 said:
I'm not registering anything as an individual that can't be passed on to my heirs without them going through the form 4 process and paying $200 per item.
When you die it's a Form 5 for heirs to transfer and there is no fee.
This was the plan all along and it worked brilliantly. Very publicly rule against the shouldering of these new braces, which spiked curiosity and awareness, then vaguely walk it back a few months later making people think they have a legal workaround for the hottest new tacticool trend. Stamp free SBR.BenderRodriguez said:
ATF says 10 to 40 million braced illegal unregistered sbrs in the wild in the last decade.
Crime rate with rifles is unchanged, despite millions of super scary short unregistered guns floating around for 10+ years.
Wants to put you in jail for owning something they said was okay for a decade, now that they have changed their minds…even though crime hasnt changed.
Why the hell do we tolerate this?
Let the public buy as many as possible for 10 years, then clarify the ruling, and BOOM, there's your gun control.
It was a trap all along.
Found on Reddit
El Chupacabra said:javajaws said:
I just started the process to do the free Form 1. When I clicked 'register as trust' a warning box popped up and said the trust had to show it owned the firearm prior to January 13th. So for trust purposes, it had to be signed and notarized into the trust in January 12 or earlier.
While I don't doubt that is what it says, I can't see that as being legally correct since the ruling doesn't take effect until it has been published yet in the federal register...which it hasn't yet afaik. I'm thinking they will either correct that date or wait for yet another lawsuit to make them change it to the correct date.
LOL, now that braced pistols are considered "rifles", can someone please explain this to me?
Overall lengths of firearms I may or may not own:
IWI Tavor - 27.25" - No SBR required
Braced AR fully collapsed - 27.75" - SBR required
Overall lengths of firearms I may or may not own:
IWI Tavor - 27.25" - No SBR required
Braced AR fully collapsed - 27.75" - SBR required
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