highvelocity said:
whats funny - longer barrels add more velocity to the round being fired in most cases
checkmate atf
Yep and usually improves accuracy...username checks out
Update on pistol brace?
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Last: 5 mo ago by tandy miller
Yep and usually improves accuracy...username checks out
I know you only posted what the ATF PDF says, but could the ATF use some 21st century graphics to ACCURATELY show what they are talking about?AgEng06 said:Here is the way the ATF calls it out... https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/downloadTexmid said:
Question for the experts here on the Outdoors board: from what point is the barrel measured? I have a friend who has a Rock River Arms AR-15. He measured the barrel and it seems to be 15.5". The website for Rock River Arms lists the barrel length as 16".
More info: https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/12/firearms-barrel-length-and-overall-length-know-the-law/
I think the ATF means to make their documents crappy and not make sense when a picture COULD show what they are actually talking about.
No way it is to Scale. Crappy dimension lines. (HS drafting teacher would have a fit over this slop.)
Not showing the right length in the right place (breach face or end of barrel.) Crappy dimension lines.
Talking about OAL but showing dimensions from breach face. Crappy dimension lines.
Not showing correct dimension line from the actual breach face. Crappy dimension lines.
dubi said:Did you read the q&a? Page 7 #25Mr. Bob Harris said:
So is it now illegal to take all of my new SBRs to a public range, over the 120 day period, while I wait to decide whether or not to register? And if one decides to register, would it be illegal to use these new SBRs while awaiting approval? Is this addressed in the rule, or open to interpretation?
According to this, it appears that if one has a pistol braced 12" in the "submitted" state, it is now legally referred to as an "SBR" and the person is able to keep the brace on and use it while in the submitted state. And since a brace is now no different than a regular stock, why wouldn't one be able to swap the brace for a stock "today"?
mhnatt said:dubi said:Did you read the q&a? Page 7 #25Mr. Bob Harris said:
So is it now illegal to take all of my new SBRs to a public range, over the 120 day period, while I wait to decide whether or not to register? And if one decides to register, would it be illegal to use these new SBRs while awaiting approval? Is this addressed in the rule, or open to interpretation?
According to this, it appears that if one has a pistol braced 12" in the "submitted" state, it is now legally referred to as an "SBR" and the person is able to keep the brace on and use it while in the submitted state. And since a brace is now no different than a regular stock, why wouldn't one be able to swap the brace for a stock "today"?
I would think given the mood of the power brokers in this case, swapping the "brace" identified in the submission for a stock would be a change to the submission and therefore not be the same firearm described in the submission. They have been pretty clear that the tax break and registration is for pistols with a brace not an actual SBR. Remember actual SBRs are supposed to be registered and approved before being created. It would not surprise me if the agency were to crack down on someone that had what was originally defined as an SBR (not a braced pistol, based on the original definition) charging the 200 tax at a minimum or possibly coming after the registree for having an unregistered SBR. So if in the submission the "brace" has already been swapped for a "stock" based on their view of the photos that have to be submitted one could end up royally screwed. Just another reason the whole hurry up and register for a break in the tax is BS. Folks are going to say since it is already an SBR in the eyes of the feds I will put a stock on it and make it a real SBR and the feds will nail them to the wall saying the SBR is unregistered and the rule and tax break only pertain to "braced pistols". Boom jail and fine applied. Now once the stamp is back and your pistol is now a registered SBR stock it with a real stock. But I know I wouldn't risk a real.stock until the stamp came back approved. Remember if the stamp is not approved you are still jammed up with an unregistered NFA item.
ShouldastayedataTm said:mhnatt said:dubi said:Did you read the q&a? Page 7 #25Mr. Bob Harris said:
So is it now illegal to take all of my new SBRs to a public range, over the 120 day period, while I wait to decide whether or not to register? And if one decides to register, would it be illegal to use these new SBRs while awaiting approval? Is this addressed in the rule, or open to interpretation?
According to this, it appears that if one has a pistol braced 12" in the "submitted" state, it is now legally referred to as an "SBR" and the person is able to keep the brace on and use it while in the submitted state. And since a brace is now no different than a regular stock, why wouldn't one be able to swap the brace for a stock "today"?
I would think given the mood of the power brokers in this case, swapping the "brace" identified in the submission for a stock would be a change to the submission and therefore not be the same firearm described in the submission. They have been pretty clear that the tax break and registration is for pistols with a brace not an actual SBR. Remember actual SBRs are supposed to be registered and approved before being created. It would not surprise me if the agency were to crack down on someone that had what was originally defined as an SBR (not a braced pistol, based on the original definition) charging the 200 tax at a minimum or possibly coming after the registree for having an unregistered SBR. So if in the submission the "brace" has already been swapped for a "stock" based on their view of the photos that have to be submitted one could end up royally screwed. Just another reason the whole hurry up and register for a break in the tax is BS. Folks are going to say since it is already an SBR in the eyes of the feds I will put a stock on it and make it a real SBR and the feds will nail them to the wall saying the SBR is unregistered and the rule and tax break only pertain to "braced pistols". Boom jail and fine applied. Now once the stamp is back and your pistol is now a registered SBR stock it with a real stock. But I know I wouldn't risk a real.stock until the stamp came back approved. Remember if the stamp is not approved you are still jammed up with an unregistered NFA item.
Okay so: If Form 1 submitted, then keep brace on and also can use as normal. Then stamp arrives, swap brace for stock. If not approved, then pin/weld a 4" can to make the barrel length 16" and still swap brace for stock?
Your guess is as good as mine. I have no idea if that would work or not. I have not found anything that outlines the options if the original SBR request for the pistol gets rejected. Hopefully someone can answer since at that point you would have an unregistered sbr and they would have all the details they need to come after you. In my reading thus far I have not seen anything around what can be done if submission is rejected.
I'm going to pay for my stamp, the freebie isn't worth the bs.
Also, you don't get an actual stamp for the amnesty form 1's, as you haven't paid a tax
Also, you don't get an actual stamp for the amnesty form 1's, as you haven't paid a tax
Who cares? It's still a legal SBR registered on the NFRTR. Most of my NFA doesn't have a "stamp" but it still shoots the same and can be transferred if I want to get rid of it.tandy miller said:
Also, you don't get an actual stamp for the amnesty form 1's, as you haven't paid a tax
GOP moves to block Biden's pistol brace rule: 'Abuse of rule-making authority'
It won't get through the Senate and Biden sure as **** wouldn't sign it, but at least it is on the minds of the 2A congressmembers
Quote:
EXCLUSIVE: House Republicans this week will take a step toward blocking the Biden administration's new rule that tightens regulations on pistol stabilizing braces, and call the rule an "abuse" of federal authority.
Quote:
Reps. Andrew Clyde, R-Ga., and Richard Hudson, R-N.C., are leading the effort in the House of Representatives, and plan to introduce a Congressional Review Act (CRA) resolution on Monday. The resolution would nullify the Biden administration rule if passed by the House and Senate and signed by President Biden, or if Congress were to override a likely Biden veto.
"Congress must swiftly move to block the ATF's unconstitutional pistol brace rule, as this misguided measure turns millions of law-abiding gun owners, including many disabled veterans, into criminals for merely possessing legal firearms with stabilizing braces," Clyde told Fox News Digital ahead of the introduction of the measure.
Clyde told Fox that the ATF's "abuse of rule-making authority" would violate the Constitution and disregard Congress' legislative authority, and was "nothing more than a reckless attempt to advance President Biden's ultimate goal of an unarmed America."
It won't get through the Senate and Biden sure as **** wouldn't sign it, but at least it is on the minds of the 2A congressmembers
What's the end date of the 120 days?
May 31, 2023.BCO07 said:
What's the end date of the 120 days?
https://www.walkertaylorlaw.com/atf-pistol-brace-rule-sbr-amnesty/
Any updates on lawsuits? Thanks!
Yesterday said:
Any updates on lawsuits? Thanks!
Was curious about this as well. I thought there would be more on this by now since it's so time sensitive.
I saw the request for a preliminary injunction in the Mock v Garland case was denied yesterday. Unfortunate because this was in the Northern District of Texas and that judge has been very 2A friendly. Not to say he won't rule against the ATF rule in the long run, just not yet.
Can braced pistols still be bought/sold until whatever day is day 120 or whatever? I'm thinking about thinning the safe
My understanding is yes. I don't think firearms stores are/can sell them currently though.
Fishin Texas Aggie 05
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AG
technically a braced pistol is a SBR until we are told different. To sell a braced pistol would be akin to selling a NFA item.nealan said:
Can braced pistols still be bought/sold until whatever day is day 120 or whatever? I'm thinking about thinning the safe
but take the brace off and then its just a pistol
OK, that's what I was wondering about. Also, I don't understand whether or not certain buffer tubes are a no-no at this point. ie, ones with adjustment notches, etc. This is all such bullspit
I wouldn't mind seeing an example of a buffer tube that would be a replacement for a brace that would make a gun it a legal pistol not requiring a stamp.
You know, just for a friend.
You know, just for a friend.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Pistol for sale.Fishin Texas Aggie 05 said:technically a braced pistol is a SBR until we are told different. To sell a braced pistol would be akin to selling a NFA item.nealan said:
Can braced pistols still be bought/sold until whatever day is day 120 or whatever? I'm thinking about thinning the safe
but take the brace off and then its just a pistol
Also random polymer parts included for free.
Haha exactly !
Friend says thanks.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
So to all of you who are neutering your 10" or 12" AR "rifles", holding out in hopes of an overturn ruling so as to not SBR it, solely doing so because you don't want to "be on 'the list'":
You either:
1) don't run any suppressors
Or
2) run home-made, non-Form 1, unregistered suppressors
If #1, then that's cool and I salute your "I will not comply" over hearing loss.
If #2, then that's really cool as you are truly giving the finger to the government and hence truly can fly the "I will not comply" banner yet smart enough to concurrently save your hearing while putting you in a greater position of felony/prison than we who are "on the list".
Both reasons seem futile. We can still stand firm in 2A while hedging against a negative outcome.
I SBR'd two of mine (tax free) and got the approvals within weeks. I tossed the ugly braces and replaced with true balls. The ATF already has me on "the list" just like most of you are whether you have 1 or 10 NFA items.
Let the flaming carry on…
You either:
1) don't run any suppressors
Or
2) run home-made, non-Form 1, unregistered suppressors
If #1, then that's cool and I salute your "I will not comply" over hearing loss.
If #2, then that's really cool as you are truly giving the finger to the government and hence truly can fly the "I will not comply" banner yet smart enough to concurrently save your hearing while putting you in a greater position of felony/prison than we who are "on the list".
Both reasons seem futile. We can still stand firm in 2A while hedging against a negative outcome.
I SBR'd two of mine (tax free) and got the approvals within weeks. I tossed the ugly braces and replaced with true balls. The ATF already has me on "the list" just like most of you are whether you have 1 or 10 NFA items.
Let the flaming carry on…
I just don't like them.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
nealan said:
Can braced pistols still be bought/sold until whatever day is day 120 or whatever? I'm thinking about thinning the safe
They're essentially worthless. Give them all to me so we can keep you out of trouble.
mhnatt said:
So to all of you who are neutering your 10" or 12" AR "rifles", holding out in hopes of an overturn ruling so as to not SBR it, solely doing so because you don't want to "be on 'the list'":
You either:
1) don't run any suppressors
Or
2) run home-made, non-Form 1, unregistered suppressors
If #1, then that's cool and I salute your "I will not comply" over hearing loss.
If #2, then that's really cool as you are truly giving the finger to the government and hence truly can fly the "I will not comply" banner yet smart enough to concurrently save your hearing while putting you in a greater position of felony/prison than we who are "on the list".
Both reasons seem futile. We can still stand firm in 2A while hedging against a negative outcome.
I SBR'd two of mine (tax free) and got the approvals within weeks. I tossed the ugly braces and replaced with true balls. The ATF already has me on "the list" just like most of you are whether you have 1 or 10 NFA items.
Let the flaming carry on…
You could have done all of that before the deadline too. Some of us are waiting. Interesting flex though.
mhnatt said:
So to all of you who are neutering your 10" or 12" AR "rifles", holding out in hopes of an overturn ruling so as to not SBR it, solely doing so because you don't want to "be on 'the list'":
You either:
1) don't run any suppressors
Or
2) run home-made, non-Form 1, unregistered suppressors
If #1, then that's cool and I salute your "I will not comply" over hearing loss.
If #2, then that's really cool as you are truly giving the finger to the government and hence truly can fly the "I will not comply" banner yet smart enough to concurrently save your hearing while putting you in a greater position of felony/prison than we who are "on the list".
Both reasons seem futile. We can still stand firm in 2A while hedging against a negative outcome.
I SBR'd two of mine (tax free) and got the approvals within weeks. I tossed the ugly braces and replaced with true balls. The ATF already has me on "the list" just like most of you are whether you have 1 or 10 NFA items.
Let the flaming carry on…
Where can I find instructions and materials for #2? Any special tools required?
nealan said:
Can braced pistols still be bought/sold until whatever day is day 120 or whatever? I'm thinking about thinning the safe
WHATCHU GOT?
Yesterday said:mhnatt said:
So to all of you who are neutering your 10" or 12" AR "rifles", holding out in hopes of an overturn ruling so as to not SBR it, solely doing so because you don't want to "be on 'the list'":
You either:
1) don't run any suppressors
Or
2) run home-made, non-Form 1, unregistered suppressors
If #1, then that's cool and I salute your "I will not comply" over hearing loss.
If #2, then that's really cool as you are truly giving the finger to the government and hence truly can fly the "I will not comply" banner yet smart enough to concurrently save your hearing while putting you in a greater position of felony/prison than we who are "on the list".
Both reasons seem futile. We can still stand firm in 2A while hedging against a negative outcome.
I SBR'd two of mine (tax free) and got the approvals within weeks. I tossed the ugly braces and replaced with true balls. The ATF already has me on "the list" just like most of you are whether you have 1 or 10 NFA items.
Let the flaming carry on…
You could have done all of that before the deadline too. Some of us are waiting. Interesting flex though.
Yeah I get it, call me pessimistic but I am thinking the courts aren't going to be able to stop this by May 31st and I expect a massive backlog of Form 1 applications to flood the already slow ATF queue, growing it from merely a few weeks to a year or two waiting period. I'm moving on and enjoying my new SBRs. If it's overturned, great. Nothing lost as I'm already on the list from other NFA items and avoided $400 in dumb tax that will surely come if it isn't overturned.
nealan said:
Can braced pistols still be bought/sold until whatever day is day 120 or whatever? I'm thinking about thinning the safe
No they cannot be. I am a licensed disposal facilitator if you want to send to me.
Anyone heard anything new on this? Is it working it's way through the courts that will delay the implementation?
He's still optimistic. As am I.
Daddy-O5 said:
He's still optimistic. As am I.
Thanks for the link (seriously). But Ugh. 25% of that video is him begging for subscribers. And then a few minutes on a past video. Fast Forward to 4:18 for brace info.
Edit to say I am not optimistic on this getting resolved thru legislature. Not even optimistic on the judiciary side after the Texas judge ****ed everyone over on the denial of the injunction (Mock vs Garland).
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