Same thing I said to The Hubs. This jury is so confused and whiplashed they have to be wondering WTH is going on.Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:
So the judge essentially said "even though we were playing baseball, we are done with that and come back on Monday to play hockey, baseball is over now". You think most of those jurors won't be on the internet all weekend trying to figure out what the hell is happening?
Quote:
During Friday's broadcast of FNC's "Hannity," Harvard Law professor emeritus Alan Dershowitz predicted the New York City jury hearing the Daniel Penny case would remain deadlocked, possibly resulting in a loss for Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.
Dershowitz said such a loss, coupled with a loss in his prosecution against President-elect Donald Trump, would likely result in a lost reelection bid.
Quote:
Well, I think it's manipulation," Dershowitz replied. "It's manipulation by prosecution. Look, your commentator that protested was absolutely right. This is a case about racism. It's about the racism by the district attorney. It's racism because if the racial composition had been flipped, nobody would have brought this case. There'd be no protesters outside protesting about a Black man being convicted of murder for choking somebody who who was white. This is all about race, which is why although this is an attempt to manipulate the jury into coming to a compromised verdict, I think it will fail."
Video at LINKQuote:
"I'm going to predict here and now that I think the jury will remain deadlocked on the lower count because as the judge pointed out, from what he's heard and seen on the notes, this looks like it's about disagreement between the jurors over two things, justification was he justified in doing this and causation, did he actually cause the death?" he continued. "And those issues are the same for the higher count and for the lower count. Also, if it's tried again, he can't put him on trial again for the higher count. That would be double jeopardy. And so, I think the issue is whether or not the manipulation will work and we'll get enough jurors to say well, you know, no, he didn't commit manslaughter but negligence well, let's give the prosecution a victory."
Although I'll be the first to say predicting jury behavior is risky at best because they can be crazy in how they reach their decisions but have a hard time faulting this jury right now. Those jury instructions were confusing ass backwards if not outright misleading on the law.Prosperdick said:
You can trace this all the way back to George Floyd. Police subdue him with enough fentanyl in his system to kill a horse. He subsequently dies and it kicks off BLM, which leads to Defund the Police.
Thousands of good police officers leave the force around the country, especially in New York. This means less police presence which leads to citizens having to take more matters into their own hands.
Now we come full circle with this trial. Even if he's found not guilty (which he should) it sends a clear signal to the law abiding public...we care more about criminals than we do your safety.
I truly feel sorry for those that live in a blue city, vote Republican, but can't afford to leave.
Wouldn't be surprised at that either. They come back on Monday (assuming this judge hasn't figured out how to correct his error and just go ahead and declare a mistrial and dismiss them, scream at each other for a couple of hours and then tell the judge it's a no go.ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
The jury probably hates each other at this point. They'll be hung no matter what.
Based on the trials in New York discussed on this board, I believe your description pertains to the entire New York judicial system including the prosecution offices.aggiehawg said:….,,,,….Quote:
I read Penny's lawyers were objecting to the dismissal of the manslaughter charge but I guess even if he couldn't be retried they didn't want the jury to think "well, we have to get him with SOMETHING."
Nutty as squirrel crap.
I don't think Penny has ever been to Texas? Hard to charge him with anything if he's never been here.sam callahan said:
if he gets convicted, Texas needs to extradite him on some wacky charge and release him for a trial that. gets delayed indefinitely
Pesky things like laws and legal precedent don't seem to hinder the NY courts, why should we let them get in the way of doing the right thing.aggiehawg said:I don't think Penny has ever been to Texas? Hard to charge him with anything if he's never been here.sam callahan said:
if he gets convicted, Texas needs to extradite him on some wacky charge and release him for a trial that. gets delayed indefinitely
Understand your are being sarcastic. But Penny's due process rights have already been trampled enough in my view. Texas doesn't need to pile on, despite whatever the intention.txags92 said:Pesky things like laws and legal precedent don't seem to hinder the NY courts, why should we let them get in the way of doing the right thing.aggiehawg said:I don't think Penny has ever been to Texas? Hard to charge him with anything if he's never been here.sam callahan said:
if he gets convicted, Texas needs to extradite him on some wacky charge and release him for a trial that. gets delayed indefinitely
And imagine being locked in for 4 days, being told "nevermind" and now you need to rule on Point B. Why the hell would you budge. I'd dig in even deeper. Hung jury it is I hope.aggiehawg said:Although I'll be the first to say predicting jury behavior is risky at best because they can be crazy in how they reach their decisions but have a hard time faulting this jury right now. Those jury instructions were confusing ass backwards if not outright misleading on the law.Prosperdick said:
You can trace this all the way back to George Floyd. Police subdue him with enough fentanyl in his system to kill a horse. He subsequently dies and it kicks off BLM, which leads to Defund the Police.
Thousands of good police officers leave the force around the country, especially in New York. This means less police presence which leads to citizens having to take more matters into their own hands.
Now we come full circle with this trial. Even if he's found not guilty (which he should) it sends a clear signal to the law abiding public...we care more about criminals than we do your safety.
I truly feel sorry for those that live in a blue city, vote Republican, but can't afford to leave.
Telling the jury you have to do A before you can do B. Then after four frustrating days for jury trying to reach consensus on A then to be told, never mind about that A part. See you Monday and on to the B part!!
And as Dersh points out, if the stumbling block was justification and or causation, those issues would still remain on a crim negligent homicide charge. If they couldn't reach unanimity on manslaughter, why would they be expected to be able to reach it on the second charge? They are a hung jury.
Here's the entire article.Quote:
In the real world, there wasn't anything racist in Penny's intervention as Neely threatened passengers. Yes, the happenstance is that Penny is white and Neely was black; but Neely was intimidating all the train passengers regardless of race. Penny was assisted in subduing him by non-white passengers. Some of the best witnesses in the case for Penny have been black passengers, who have described how scared they were and how heroic Penny was.
But that's not how the progressive prosecutors see it. Shamefully, Judge Maxwell Wiley has allowed Bragg's prosecutors to refer to Penny as "the white man" and "the white defendant," notwithstanding that Penny's whiteness is irrelevant, there being not a scintilla of proof that he was bigoted. Bragg's approach is transparently jaded: appeal to any Manhattan progressives on the jury with a race-based ideological pitch that social justice demands finding Penny guilty.
Andrew McCarthy, Fox News
It actually makes for an interesting quandary: is it better for society for the jury to convict on a lesser charge so that Penny can appeal and a higher court can shut down this mechanism… or to hang on the other charges and let Penny go free but leave the injustice unchallenged…Mathguy64 said:
I still can't get past the fact that Bragg gets to play bait and switch. Getting to know the jury's thinking to the point of being hung and then using that to drop the charge they are hung on just seems like a way to get a second trial without a second trial.
I'm flabbergasted that the legal system allows for this.
How would higher courts shut down the mechanism? It's not like they are going to fire Soros DAs.Get Off My Lawn said:It actually makes for an interesting quandary: is it better for society for the jury to convict on a lesser charge so that Penny can appeal and a higher court can shut down this mechanism… or to hang on the other charges and let Penny go free but leave the injustice unchallenged…Mathguy64 said:
I still can't get past the fact that Bragg gets to play bait and switch. Getting to know the jury's thinking to the point of being hung and then using that to drop the charge they are hung on just seems like a way to get a second trial without a second trial.
I'm flabbergasted that the legal system allows for this.
That would only effect this case. Not Soros DA's' as a whole.Get Off My Lawn said:
If they granted an appeal based on an argument that this process violated his rights.
Judge Wiley: Meanwhile the defense said it wants more instructions.
— Inner City Press (@innercitypress) December 9, 2024
Penny lawyer Daniel Kenniff: We are moving for a mistrial. We are not going along - we add that the court never ascertained if they were hung on justification, though it can be inferred
As far as selective prosecution? Agreed. But this "see what sticks" charging strategy should be nipped in the bud.aTmAg said:That would only effect this case. Not Soros DA's' as a whole.Get Off My Lawn said:
If they granted an appeal based on an argument that this process violated his rights.
I think a DA or two has to go to jail like Mike Nifong from the Duke rape case. Though i do not know if they have evidence here that they had against him.Get Off My Lawn said:As far as selective prosecution? Agreed. But this "see what sticks" charging strategy should be nipped in the bud.aTmAg said:That would only effect this case. Not Soros DA's' as a whole.Get Off My Lawn said:
If they granted an appeal based on an argument that this process violated his rights.
That POS Nifong went to jail for only one day. He should still be there, imo.aTmAg said:I think a DA or two has to go to jail like Mike Nifong from the Duke rape case. Though i do not know if they have evidence here that they had against him.Get Off My Lawn said:As far as selective prosecution? Agreed. But this "see what sticks" charging strategy should be nipped in the bud.aTmAg said:That would only effect this case. Not Soros DA's' as a whole.Get Off My Lawn said:
If they granted an appeal based on an argument that this process violated his rights.
Agreed. They should go to jail as long as the accused would have.93MarineHorn said:That POS Nifong went to jail for only one day. He should still be there, imo.aTmAg said:I think a DA or two has to go to jail like Mike Nifong from the Duke rape case. Though i do not know if they have evidence here that they had against him.Get Off My Lawn said:As far as selective prosecution? Agreed. But this "see what sticks" charging strategy should be nipped in the bud.aTmAg said:That would only effect this case. Not Soros DA's' as a whole.Get Off My Lawn said:
If they granted an appeal based on an argument that this process violated his rights.
Judge Wiley: I deny the motion for mistrial. If they ask, I could try to find a jury room where they couldn't hear it, but I'm not sure I could find one. I could bring them out now and ask
— Inner City Press (@innercitypress) December 9, 2024
ADA Yoran: It's moot. If it starts again
[It does: chanting resumes]
Penny's lawyer Kenniff: The ADA has some control over the protesters-
— Inner City Press (@innercitypress) December 9, 2024
Judge Wiley: Stop that, Mr. Kenniff. I've addressed--
ADA Yoran: He bought up the press conference-
Kenniff: It was a press conference by the lawyers representing Mr. Neely - let me finish!
