Cannot stress enough how ridiculous it is that the state of New York just figured out a way to do something unprecedented in a criminal trial. The state is how many hundreds of years old? They just found a novel way to do something in the middle of the trial in this case.
Daniel Penny trial...
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Last: 2 days ago by ts5641
That should be against the law.aggiehawg said:
Bragg now is trying to drop the manslaughter charge and then have the judge give them an Allen charge on the remaining criminally negligent homicide charge.
That's coercive. And the jury would rightfully be pissed after four days of being told to focus on the manslaughter charge first to now say, never mind?
What little I know of the legal system (watching the Rittenhouse and Zimmerman trials) is that the prosecutors and judges are generally not upright.
I fully agree. Such a move by Bragg is pure BS.AtticusMatlock said:
I'm watching Uncivil Law review what's happening now. Apparently this has never happened in the history of New York state. Never. Dropping a charge in the middle of deliberation when the jury says they are hung. Never happened in the history of the state.
Defense has rightfully pointed out that all this will do is encourage future prosecutors to overcharge.
Judge is dismissing the jury until Monday. Not sure what he is going to tell the jury about count one.
I think he told them it's dismissed
Count One is dismissed. Told them they would deliberate Count 2 when they return.
1964: Kitty Genovese being murdered while no one bothered to intervene was considered a scandal.
2024: Alvin Bragg attempts to make this official NYC policy.
2024: Alvin Bragg attempts to make this official NYC policy.
News just quoted the judge saying this after he dismissed first count.
"What that means is you're now free to consider count 2. Whether that makes a difference I have no idea" - Judge
"What that means is you're now free to consider count 2. Whether that makes a difference I have no idea" - Judge
What an a-hole judge!TitanAGGIE09 said:
News just quoted the judge saying this after his dismissed first count.
"What that means is you're now free to consider count 2. Whether that makes a difference I have no idea" - Judge
This has to be grounds for appeal right?
You do not have a soul. You are a soul that has a body.
We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
Is in my book. Reversible error to tamper with a jury using coercion.AgBQ-00 said:
This has to be grounds for appeal right?
Can they motion for mistrial?aggiehawg said:Is in my book. Reversible error to tamper with a jury using coercion.AgBQ-00 said:
This has to be grounds for appeal right?
Are there different standards of proof for this lower charge?
They already have moved for mistrial a few times.BadMoonRisin said:Can they motion for mistrial?aggiehawg said:Is in my book. Reversible error to tamper with a jury using coercion.AgBQ-00 said:
This has to be grounds for appeal right?
One thing's for sure; Adam Schiff would have never let Jack McCoy do something like this. (Law and Order for those who didn't catch it)
You do not have a soul. You are a soul that has a body.
We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
Well, at least the defense will have the weekend to search for some precedent on this, although they may fall prey to what I call the "Stupid Rule," which is, where you can't find a case on the subject because no one has previously been stupid enough to take such an argument up on appeal far enough to get a written opinion.aggiehawg said:They already have moved for mistrial a few times.BadMoonRisin said:Can they motion for mistrial?aggiehawg said:Is in my book. Reversible error to tamper with a jury using coercion.AgBQ-00 said:
This has to be grounds for appeal right?
twk said:Well, at least the defense will have the weekend to search for some precedent on this, although they may fall prey to what I call the "Stupid Rule," which is, where you can't find a case on the subject because no one has previously been stupid enough to take such an argument up on appeal far enough to get a written opinion.aggiehawg said:They already have moved for mistrial a few times.BadMoonRisin said:Can they motion for mistrial?aggiehawg said:Is in my book. Reversible error to tamper with a jury using coercion.AgBQ-00 said:
This has to be grounds for appeal right?
Isn't this more of a "no judge has ever been stupid enough to do this before"?
In this case, yes.VegasAg86 said:twk said:Well, at least the defense will have the weekend to search for some precedent on this, although they may fall prey to what I call the "Stupid Rule," which is, where you can't find a case on the subject because no one has previously been stupid enough to take such an argument up on appeal far enough to get a written opinion.aggiehawg said:They already have moved for mistrial a few times.BadMoonRisin said:Can they motion for mistrial?aggiehawg said:Is in my book. Reversible error to tamper with a jury using coercion.AgBQ-00 said:
This has to be grounds for appeal right?
Isn't this more of a "no judge has ever been stupid enough to do this before"?
Un-effing believable. Just complete lawlessness, making it up as you go along. This is "justice" folks.
In what world? Bragg only drops the higher charge because he knows it's deadlocked? In what world is this even fair? If I'm the defense I'm running to an appeals court immediately to find someone to stop that. It's the equivalent of bait and switch.
It's too bad Alvin Brag wasn't United Healthcare'd long ago.
Is there grounds for the defense to file an interlocutory appeal?
What did you expect from a state that had to literally change their laws so they could go after Trump for something retroactively?
People need to be hung for things like Bragg et al are doing…
Literally hung…
People need to be hung for things like Bragg et al are doing…
Literally hung…
I'm with you, but you have to think that any reasonable juror would infer from Bragg dismissing the main count after they hung it, that Bragg is desperate and sees right through this for what it is...
Not directly on point but the judge in the Karen Read case did something similar when she declared a mistrial despite the jury having rejected a few of the charges against her and thus double jeopardy had attached. But the judge failed to poll the jury, nor ask them to fill out the jury form on what their decision was on each count or if they were deadlocked on all of them? That case was in MA.Quote:
Isn't this more of a "no judge has ever been stupid enough to do this before"?
There are some really crappy judges out there.
What happens if the judge decides over the weekend that he screwed the proverbial football and comes in and dismisses the other charge? (I know won't happen, but could he do it?)
You do not have a soul. You are a soul that has a body.
We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
FireAg said:
What did you expect from a state that had to literally change their laws so they could go after Trump for something retroactively?
People need to be hung for things like Bragg et al are doing…
Literally hung…
This
NYC and Bragg just makes up laws to convict who they want when they want while letting others off the hook completely. Who the eff wants to live in a 3rd world banana Republik Justice system?
Yes he can declare a mistrial.AgBQ-00 said:
What happens if the judge decides over the weekend that he screwed the proverbial football and comes in and dismisses the other charge? (I know won't happen, but could he do it?)
Remember who you're talking about though: a group of of people who chose to live in NYC who couldn't fabricate an excuse to get out of jury duty.Hungry Ojos said:
I'm with you, but you have to think that any reasonable juror would infer from Bragg dismissing the main count after they hung it, that Bragg is desperate and sees right through this for what it is...
I'm impressed they hung… but caution against expecting much.
Doubtful but were I on his defense team I'd be looking into some writs that may be available.SwigAg11 said:
Is there grounds for the defense to file an interlocutory appeal?
aggiehawg said:Yes he can declare a mistrial.AgBQ-00 said:
What happens if the judge decides over the weekend that he screwed the proverbial football and comes in and dismisses the other charge? (I know won't happen, but could he do it?)
I would almost expect that from any reasonable judge. He is back in his chambers right now trying to find a precedent for what he is doing and is going to rethink it when he finds there is no precedent for it. Probably going to get an earful from his law school buddies about it too.
This jury has been so confused by what the judge told them.Hungry Ojos said:
I'm with you, but you have to think that any reasonable juror would infer from Bragg dismissing the main count after they hung it, that Bragg is desperate and sees right through this for what it is...
Maybe the two lawyers on the jury will see this for what it is.
Who am I kidding, they'll probably advocate for it.
Who am I kidding, they'll probably advocate for it.
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This episode brings to mind an old saying: Something about monkeys and footballs.
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Who?mikejones! said:
Maybe the two lawyers on the jury will see this for what it is.
Who am I kidding, they'll probably advocate for it.
lol, no doubt that is right. Trump had two attorneys on his criminal jury.
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