MaxPower said:

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It's not about owning a gun. It's about the type of gun owned that has changed.

https://www.thetrace.org/2023/03/guns-america-data-atf-total/

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Does the 2nd amendment restrict the type of gun you can own? When the pretext of the 2nd refers to protection against enemies both foreign and domestic, is that some animal I haven't had the opportunity to hunt yet? And, gun technology is constantly changing to meet a threat.

Bad kid did bad stuff. We shouldn't give up our freedoms based on outliers.

So then why do Dems always talk about assault rifles and weapons of war? What you are saying is take them all away and nothing changes. So why all the Democratic historonics?

Rocag said:

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It's a pretty well known fact that the US has one of the world's highest incarceration rates, but if you really need some sources from which to educate yourself I can help.

Prison Policy Initiative (Mainly US)
Wikipedia: US Incarceration Rate
Statista
World Prison Brief
World Prison Brief: Prison Population Tool

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Pretty much what expected. Hilarious that you insist on "credible sources" to refute your unsourced claims and now you retort with "read a book" and…Wikipedia?

Your claims may very well be accurate but you don't exactly inspire confidence when you can't/won't cite sources to back them up.

Regardless, enough with this derail.

Danimal said:

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Why is it that kids who grow up with AR style weapons in the house seem to want to get their hands on them? Is there maybe a link between immature parents who like to virtue signal and bad parenting?

Makes you wonder.

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I blame it on gangsta rap and video games.

Danimal said:

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Why is it that kids who grow up with AR style weapons in the house seem to want to get their hands on them? Is there maybe a link between immature parents who like to virtue signal and bad parenting?

Makes you wonder.

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I grew up around ARs and they were viewed no differently by me and my brothers than a bolt action or a shotgun. Just a tool. I had a gun and ammunition in my bedroom at age 8.

Danimal said:

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Why is it that kids who grow up with AR style weapons in the house seem to want to get their hands on them? Is there maybe a link between immature parents who like to virtue signal and bad parenting?

Makes you wonder.

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Do you have any facts to back up this assertion, or just your uneducated opinion?

MaxPower said:

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Maybe so but the volume of guns in circulation is much higher now than it was 50 years ago and the percentage ownership of pistols vs long guns has changed dramatically. 50 years ago people owned rifles and shotguns for hunting. Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry has a pistol, which is the easiest weapon to conceal and use to perpetuate crime. It's just a numbers game that the more people who have them the more likely some of those people are idiots.

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If you disarmed every Democrat in America, gun crime would be about five percent. Guns aren't the problem. Mentally unstable people are

Danimal said:

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Why is it that kids who grow up with AR style weapons in the house seem to want to get their hands on them? Is there maybe a link between immature parents who like to virtue signal and bad parenting?

Makes you wonder.

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No it doesn't.

Dad taught me how to shoot an AR-15 when I was a kid. I could hit targets at 150-200 yards with iron sights.

Never once did I think about using it for anything but shooting at the gun range.

The problem is not the guns, or the type of guns.

We have kids today who come from broken homes, usually without a father figure.

We have kids who grow up on a steady diet of violence, and I don't just mean movies, TV shows, etc. They see it daily in their real lives.

Many kids are taught that the appropriate response to the slightest diss is to start shooting.

Kids are not disciplined and are allowed to run amok, by their parents, by the schools, and often by both.

Kids who have actual mental problems are not removed from the schools and sent to a school that can perhaps help them, away from the normal students.

Kids, and people in general, who are seriously mentally ill are no longer locked up for the safety of society. At best they are turned loose with pills to take, which they inevitably quit doing.

Way too many kids today are being given psychotropic drugs for no other reason than they're hyperactive, or don't pay attention enough in class, or perhaps for no other reason than their parents and teachers don't want to deal with them, so they dope them up. Only God knows what those drugs do to developing brains. If the kid is hyperactive, kick his or her butt outside and make them go play. If the kid is not paying attention in class, they're most likely either bored (need to be moved up a grade or to the advanced program), or are struggling and need some extra help. Drugs are not the solution for most problems kids have today.

If a kid makes threats to shoot up a school, like this one did, it should be taken seriously, unlike this one who wasn't.

The problem is not the guns. It is an almost complete breakdown of the morals and fabric of society. When God, family, and community have been eliminated or replaced by some form of humanist nihilism; murder no longer seems to some to be a prohibited or bad thing.

Tom Fox said:

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If true, I can already hear the "communication breakdown" excuse making

There are mass stabbing attacks in Europe weekly and, yes, they usually involve multiple deaths. It's not the guns.

I'm never giving up my guns while the government allows 20 million violent 3rd world illegal immigrants to flood the country.

I'm never giving up my guns while the government allows blm and antifa to riot, loot, block roads, and burn down large portions of major cities.

I'm never giving up my guns while we have Soros funded DA's and judges that refuse to lock up repeat violent criminals. Harris county just had its 210th person killed at the hands of a repeat offender free from jail on multiple bonds.
https://www.fox26houston.com/news/31-year-old-ex-con-free-from-jail-bond-when-he-allegedly-stabbed-his-neighbor-death

The government has proven they're not willing to protect the productive and innocent citizens of this country. They're more interested in protecting rights of criminals than safety of innocents. Sorry, I'm not willing to outsource my protection to them. You're not taking the guns, so forget about it.

This kid apparently made previous threats to shoot up a school and absolutely nothing was done about it. This should be a zero tolerance issue. Threaten to shoot up a school and you're automatically barred from public school. He was on the FBI and local police radar. This one looks like it could have been easily prevented. Again, the government does not do a good job of protecting the citizens and therefore can't realistically expect people to give up their only real protection.

Democrats love to use school shootings as an opportunity to push for gun control, but they're not willing to have a real discussion about gun crime because the overwhelmingly majority of offenders are part of the voter base they pander to. Blue cities are purposely not publishing mug shots anymore because they claim it perpetuates racism. Facts and statistics (inanimate things) are racist now apparently. They're not reporting crime statistics to the fbi anymore so we can't even have an accurate assessment, because what it shows makes them uncomfortable.

109 people were shot in Chicago over July 4th weekend, including a 5 year old, 7 yo, and 8 yo. Where is the outrage?

Rocag said:

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It's a pretty well known fact that the US has one of the world's highest incarceration rates, but if you really need some sources from which to educate yourself I can help.

Prison Policy Initiative (Mainly US)
Wikipedia: US Incarceration Rate
Statista
World Prison Brief
World Prison Brief: Prison Population Tool

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People commit crimes, they go to prison.
The US has high incarceration rates because people (especially certain demographics) commit an inordinate amount of crimes.

A really good question would be why do certain demographics commit more crimes?
Culture?
Race?
Government policies?

Naah, it's easier to blame whitey and guns. And incarceration.

Post of the Month....at least. Good post.

The question: can you wait about a year....maybe September?

The FBI are ****ing worthless asshats.

Rocag said:

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If you can provide any respected source that disagrees with any of the points I made in that post I will happily retract that statement. Go ahead, do your own research. You'll find that the USA imprisons more people than any other nation in the world, I'm confident on that.

But I will give you one I did just catch. The rate was highest among developed countries, with four or five small countries having higher rates. So we're still about in the top five in pure rate comparisons.

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Imprisoning more people, who cares; We should be imprisoning way more criminals than we do. Did you happen to look at violent crime rates in these same countries? In the last few years the violent crime these countries have had, come from the immigrants.

Comparing our population to the homogeneous populations of these developed countries, is some serious lightweight intellect.

It's almost like you had your mind made up and found statistics to support your confirmation bias...

FTAG 2000 said:

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MaxPower said:

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Maybe so but the volume of guns in circulation is much higher now than it was 50 years ago and the percentage ownership of pistols vs long guns has changed dramatically. 50 years ago people owned rifles and shotguns for hunting. Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry has a pistol, which is the easiest weapon to conceal and use to perpetuate crime. It's just a numbers game that the more people who have them the more likely some of those people are idiots.

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If you disarmed every Democrat in America, gun crime would be about five percent. Guns aren't the problem. Mentally unstable people are

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Wrong. Neither guns nor mentally unstable people are the problem. The problem is mentally unstable people with easy access to extremely lethal guns. Take either the gun out of this equation or the mentally unstable person and those four people are alive tonight.

We've always had mentally unstable people. What we didn't have is easy access to devices designed to unleash such a tremendous fusillade of lethal firepower so quickly and cheaply.

Other countries have mentally unstable people. Other countries don't see mass shootings with the frequency that we do.

In 2023, seven people died after being shot in Japan, a country of 125 million. Seven. Are Japanese people much more mentally stable than Americans?

InfantryAg said:

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Imprisoning more people, who cares

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Small government conservatives who believe in civil liberty?

so what's your suggestion then?

I'm not willing to disarm considering what the democrat party is willfully and wantonly doing to this country. Why would I? That's suicide. Those of us that are still actually having families and planning futures beyond our own selfish desires aren't throwing in the towel nor giving away our rights because the lowest common denominators of society wreck havoc.

So you got a plan for the mentally ill? I'll listen.

Maybe we could militarize our border too.

BadMoonRisin said:

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The question: can you wait about a year....maybe September?

The FBI are ****ing worthless asshats.

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I just read the article. In your opinion, what should the FBI have done?

Urban Ag said:

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so what's your suggestion then?

I'm not willing to disarm considering what the democrat party is willfully and wantonly doing to this country. Why would I? That's suicide. Those of us that are still actually having families and planning futures beyond our own selfish desires aren't throwing in the towel nor giving away our rights because the lowest common denominators of society wreck havoc.

So you got a plan for the mentally ill? I'll listen.

Maybe we could militarize our border too.

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I don't have any suggestions. Just pointing out the reality. The cow is out of the barn.

It's sad, isn't it? I visited South Korea for two weeks last year and it was amazing to walk around Seoul at night and feel completely and utterly safe.

My feeling is that the Founding Fathers, had they been able to foresee how this would go, would probably have chosen their words a bit differently.

I wonder if like that Michigan case where the parents ultimately were charged for criminal negligence and convicted for manslaughter, whether the parents of this 13-year old will get charged.

News thus far sounds like red flags all over the place on this kid, so much so the FBI even had come attention to him as a possible threat a year ago.

Reported that the dad said he had several guns in house for hunting and such.

Cause Although 2nd amendment is nice and all, american society seems to be getting less and less tolerant of parents with guns in their house, have little Billy at home with known mental illness issues expressing thoughts of violence, and the kid then uses a gun they purchased to go kill a bunch of other people at the local school.

Let's see how this kid got the firearm. Did dad buy it? If so, how did the kid get access to it?

"A boy accused of killing four people at his high school in Georgia was interviewed last year by police about anonymous online threats, the FBI has said.

In a statement, the FBI said its National Threat Operations Center had alerted local law enforcement in May 2023 after receiving anonymous tips about "online threats to commit a school shooting at an unidentified location and time".

The agency said that within 24 hours investigators had determined that the threats originated in Georgia.

Sheriff's deputies interviewed the boy and his father, who "stated he had hunting guns in the house, but the subject did not have unsupervised access to them", the FBI said.

The suspect, who was 13 years old at the time, denied making the online threats and officials "alerted local schools for continued monitoring of the subject".

SHOOTER

MaxPower said:

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It's not about owning a gun. It's about the type of gun owned that has changed.

https://www.thetrace.org/2023/03/guns-america-data-atf-total/

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Well you've previously admitted you favor taxing unrealized gains, taxing realized capital gains at income tax rates

So what's your brilliant solution on this issue? You in line with Kamala on this as well?

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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Urban Ag said:

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so what's your suggestion then?

I'm not willing to disarm considering what the democrat party is willfully and wantonly doing to this country. Why would I? That's suicide. Those of us that are still actually having families and planning futures beyond our own selfish desires aren't throwing in the towel nor giving away our rights because the lowest common denominators of society wreck havoc.

So you got a plan for the mentally ill? I'll listen.

Maybe we could militarize our border too.

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I don't have any suggestions. Just pointing out the reality. The cow is out of the barn.

It's sad, isn't it? I visited South Korea for two weeks last year and it was amazing to walk around Seoul at night and feel completely and utterly safe.

My feeling is that the Founding Fathers, had they been able to foresee how this would go, would probably have chosen their words a bit differently.

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The reason why you could walk around Seoul and feel "utterly safe" has 0% to do with guns.

BQ78 said:

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So then why do Dems always talk about assault rifles and weapons of war? What you are saying is take them all away and nothing changes. So why all the Democratic historonics?

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Dems know at some point if they want their complete and totalitarian utopia to exist, they must get rid of guns and gun ownership. That's why they constantly beat this drum every time there's a shooting.

C@LAg said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Let's see how this kid got the firearm. Did dad buy it? If so, how did the kid get access to it?

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my brother and I had full access to all my dad's guns.

even those locked in his gun cabinet.

where there is a will, there is a way. kids (us) can be persistent until you find hidden keys and whatnot.

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The 'where there is a will there is a way' defense did not work for those parents in Michigan. There were several jurors who were gun owners on both those juries who voted to convict. Of course, there were several aspects of that case that was screaming gross negligence by those parents.

Let's see what details start to emerge. Where did the kid get the guns. If guns purchased by the parents, whether there was any attempt to secure them. What was the kids' behavior leading up to the shooting. Did the parents seem engaged with the kid and were trying to get him help, etc.

At the end of the day, if you are a parent with guns at home and your little Johnny uses one of those guns to blow away his classmates, you better have your ducks in a row for the civil lawsuits and maybe even criminal investigation coming. There are going to be a lot of questions asked.

As others have asked, so what if he was "on the FBI's radar"? What does that really mean? Is an agent assigned to monitor his on-line activity? Weekly "wellness checks" at the home? Home gun inspections? Required government counseling?

I think it means that people should know the kids a risk.

For example: if the FBI were snooping around because of school violence threats-

1. It'd be prudent for the parents to make sure there is no access to guns from their side of the equation. Move them, lock them up, do whatever it takes to ensure the child cannot gain access without you being present.

2. Im not saying this didn't already happen/ isn't SOP, but, if the school is aware of the student and the FBI looking into them, the school should consider a special program for such students. That student might need to check in with a SRO or a counselor every day. They might need to have access to specialty programming. They might need to be removed from school altogether, if there is sufficient evidence the kid actually had the intent to perform a school shooting.

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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MaxPower said:

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Maybe so but the volume of guns in circulation is much higher now than it was 50 years ago and the percentage ownership of pistols vs long guns has changed dramatically. 50 years ago people owned rifles and shotguns for hunting. Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry has a pistol, which is the easiest weapon to conceal and use to perpetuate crime. It's just a numbers game that the more people who have them the more likely some of those people are idiots.

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If you disarmed every Democrat in America, gun crime would be about five percent. Guns aren't the problem. Mentally unstable people are

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Wrong. Neither guns nor mentally unstable people are the problem. The problem is mentally unstable people with easy access to extremely lethal guns. Take either the gun out of this equation or the mentally unstable person and those four people are alive tonight.

We've always had mentally unstable people. What we didn't have is easy access to devices designed to unleash such a tremendous fusillade of lethal firepower so quickly and cheaply.

Other countries have mentally unstable people. Other countries don't see mass shootings with the frequency that we do.

In 2023, seven people died after being shot in Japan, a country of 125 million. Seven. Are Japanese people much more mentally stable than Americans?

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This is simply not true. You could walk into to a store and buy an AR for my entire life. We had them in my home since I was born. I turn 50 this month.

There was zero issue.

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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Urban Ag said:

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so what's your suggestion then?

I'm not willing to disarm considering what the democrat party is willfully and wantonly doing to this country. Why would I? That's suicide. Those of us that are still actually having families and planning futures beyond our own selfish desires aren't throwing in the towel nor giving away our rights because the lowest common denominators of society wreck havoc.

So you got a plan for the mentally ill? I'll listen.

Maybe we could militarize our border too.

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I don't have any suggestions. Just pointing out the reality. The cow is out of the barn.

It's sad, isn't it? I visited South Korea for two weeks last year and it was amazing to walk around Seoul at night and feel completely and utterly safe.

My feeling is that the Founding Fathers, had they been able to foresee how this would go, would probably have chosen their words a bit differently.

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.

If you cannot do the same here you are doing it wrong. As long as I am armed, I feel completely safe.

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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Urban Ag said:

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so what's your suggestion then?

I'm not willing to disarm considering what the democrat party is willfully and wantonly doing to this country. Why would I? That's suicide. Those of us that are still actually having families and planning futures beyond our own selfish desires aren't throwing in the towel nor giving away our rights because the lowest common denominators of society wreck havoc.

So you got a plan for the mentally ill? I'll listen.

Maybe we could militarize our border too.

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I don't have any suggestions. Just pointing out the reality. The cow is out of the barn.

It's sad, isn't it? I visited South Korea for two weeks last year and it was amazing to walk around Seoul at night and feel completely and utterly safe.

My feeling is that the Founding Fathers, had they been able to foresee how this would go, would probably have chosen their words a bit differently.

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You could walk around Seoul at night because it's not a Democrat run ****hole.
You want to walk safely in an american city?
Walk in one which doesn't have a Democrat DA and predominantly Democrat voters who pander to criminals because they are the chosen color or have a chosen (illegal) immigration status

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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MaxPower said:

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Maybe so but the volume of guns in circulation is much higher now than it was 50 years ago and the percentage ownership of pistols vs long guns has changed dramatically. 50 years ago people owned rifles and shotguns for hunting. Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry has a pistol, which is the easiest weapon to conceal and use to perpetuate crime. It's just a numbers game that the more people who have them the more likely some of those people are idiots.

---

If you disarmed every Democrat in America, gun crime would be about five percent. Guns aren't the problem. Mentally unstable people are

---

Wrong. Neither guns nor mentally unstable people are the problem. The problem is mentally unstable people with easy access to extremely lethal guns. Take either the gun out of this equation or the mentally unstable person and those four people are alive tonight.

We've always had mentally unstable people. What we didn't have is easy access to devices designed to unleash such a tremendous fusillade of lethal firepower so quickly and cheaply.

Other countries have mentally unstable people. Other countries don't see mass shootings with the frequency that we do.

In 2023, seven people died after being shot in Japan, a country of 125 million. Seven. Are Japanese people much more mentally stable than Americans?

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Completely wrong and incorrect.
Weapons today are semi-automatic. None of the shootings have used automatic weapons, because they have been pretty hard to get for , well about 30-40 years now.

So, in fact, it was far easier to "unleash such a tremendous fusilade of lethal firepower so quickly and cheaply" 40 years ago. It's much harder now.

As for the Japanese, how much of their percentage is black ? What percentage of their young adults are fatherless? How many illegal immigration gang bangers do they allow into their country unchecked? Were you able to cross the border without a passport?

The majority of gun crime occurs in essentially a few zip codes across the nation. I'd wager most of it is committed by people without a mental issue.

Banning ARs will do almost nothing to fix gun crime, and will mostly punish already law abiding citizens. It won't stop school shootings.

Except confiscation and banning, nothing that has been proposed will stop school shootings, mostly because it's not a gun problem.

We've got a problem with our youth, especially our boys.

Which one of these screenshots will get the most headlines/ blame? pic.twitter.com/sx82hg9hfB

— Corey Thompson (@Roughneck2real) September 5, 2024

Which one will the media focus on?