Logos Stick said:

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Heisenberg01 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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What I don't understand is why an adult would think any kid (regardless of mental health) who just turned 14 should own an AR-15. I don't understand the logic.

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There are millions of kids over the past several hundred years that have grown up around firearms with access to the same, and never murdered anyone. Many for hunting. At times, for military service. I learned to shoot in BSA, and earned the Rifle and Shotgun merit badges at age 12. I was taught to respect guns and to treat them as tools. Responsible kids taught responsibility are fine to own firearms. Mentally unstable, irresponsible people of any age should not own firearms.

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Just because millions of kids have grown up around firearms without killing someone doesn't mean that thousand's haven't killed themselves or others during that same time period. Teens brains are still maturing and cause them to respond to stress and peer interactions much differently. The frontal lobe is not fully developed until early adulthood. Unfortunately, reality does not match your personal experience and confirmation bias. Firearms are now responsible for more deaths in the US than any other cause including motor vehicles. No other civilized country is even close to the same rate in the same demographic.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/#:~:text=In%20the%20U.S.%2C%20teens%20ages%2018%20and%2019,in%20Canada%20%280.6%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20ages%201-19%29.

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Then you agree 18 year olds should not be allowed to vote or enter the military either, right?

As far as firearms deaths, we could solve that extremely easily: make it illegal for liberals to own firearms.

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And that is an interesting thing. At least in my field, which is about 90% liberal, "the frontal lobe is not fully developed" is always touted, while on the same hand I imagine these same liberals also support the get out the youth vote and lowering of the voting age.

aggiehawg said:

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MarkTwain said:

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Father charged with two counts felony murder in 2nd degree, four counts involuntary manslaughter, eight counts felony cruelty to children

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Second degree murder normally includes mens rea. That is a bit of a stretch to me as applied to the father.

There are a lot of predicate crimes involved in these charges from what I have seen so far. Happening this quickly suggests over charging, IMO.

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I'm guessing they will be leaning on whatever was said and or discussed in the 2023 meeting when the kids was making death threats towards classmates on social media.


I agree this looks very knee jerk reaction like during an election year. Curious to how the indictment reads, but they sure arrested the dad at warp speed.

Quote:

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I agree this looks very knee jerk reaction like during an election year. Curious to how the indictment reads, but they sure arrested the dad at warp speed.

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There is no indictment yet. Just an information. He has the right to demand a grand jurym if he desires, per the judge this morning.

So the probable cause affidavit supporting the arrest warrant is the document to look for.

Danimal said:

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Dad charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children.

Well deserved. Don't glorify guns around kids. And if the reporting is accurate that he bought his kid this gun and ignored some troubling signs, hope all the charges stick. "glorify" ?

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What exactly did the FBI tell the dad?
How did he glorify guns around his kid?
Should we hold gangbangers to the same standard?
Was the son on meds?
Does the mom go to prison for being absent?
Are we going to follow this standard for all homicides and shootings? Because there are a number of moms and grandmoms going to prison in Chicago then.

MarkTwain said:

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aggiehawg said:

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MarkTwain said:

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Father charged with two counts felony murder in 2nd degree, four counts involuntary manslaughter, eight counts felony cruelty to children

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Second degree murder normally includes mens rea. That is a bit of a stretch to me as applied to the father.

There are a lot of predicate crimes involved in these charges from what I have seen so far. Happening this quickly suggests over charging, IMO.

---

I'm guessing they will be leaning on whatever was said and or discussed in the 2023 meeting when the kids was making death threats towards classmates on social media.


I agree this looks very knee jerk reaction like during an election year. Curious to how the indictment reads, but they sure arrested the dad at warp speed.

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And this is why you NEVER talk to law enforcement without a lawyer, especially the FBI

AGinHI said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Heisenberg01 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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What I don't understand is why an adult would think any kid (regardless of mental health) who just turned 14 should own an AR-15. I don't understand the logic.

---

There are millions of kids over the past several hundred years that have grown up around firearms with access to the same, and never murdered anyone. Many for hunting. At times, for military service. I learned to shoot in BSA, and earned the Rifle and Shotgun merit badges at age 12. I was taught to respect guns and to treat them as tools. Responsible kids taught responsibility are fine to own firearms. Mentally unstable, irresponsible people of any age should not own firearms.

---

Just because millions of kids have grown up around firearms without killing someone doesn't mean that thousand's haven't killed themselves or others during that same time period. Teens brains are still maturing and cause them to respond to stress and peer interactions much differently. The frontal lobe is not fully developed until early adulthood. Unfortunately, reality does not match your personal experience and confirmation bias. Firearms are now responsible for more deaths in the US than any other cause including motor vehicles. No other civilized country is even close to the same rate in the same demographic.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/#:~:text=In%20the%20U.S.%2C%20teens%20ages%2018%20and%2019,in%20Canada%20%280.6%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20ages%201-19%29.

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Then you agree 18 year olds should not be allowed to vote or enter the military either, right?

As far as firearms deaths, we could solve that extremely easily: make it illegal for liberals to own firearms.

---

And that is an interesting thing. At least in my field, which is about 90% liberal, "the frontal lobe is not fully developed" is always touted, while on the same hand I imagine these same liberals also support the get out the youth vote and lowering of the voting age.

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Of course they do. They realize that only people whose brains are not fully developed, would vote Democrat.

Dad made it all the way through 11th grade! Sounds about right for someone obsessed enough with guns to buy his 14 yr old and AR.

Your trolling is getting weaker by the hour.

Logos Stick said:

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Heisenberg01 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

---

AtticusMatlock said:

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What I don't understand is why an adult would think any kid (regardless of mental health) who just turned 14 should own an AR-15. I don't understand the logic.

---

There are millions of kids over the past several hundred years that have grown up around firearms with access to the same, and never murdered anyone. Many for hunting. At times, for military service. I learned to shoot in BSA, and earned the Rifle and Shotgun merit badges at age 12. I was taught to respect guns and to treat them as tools. Responsible kids taught responsibility are fine to own firearms. Mentally unstable, irresponsible people of any age should not own firearms.

---

Just because millions of kids have grown up around firearms without killing someone doesn't mean that thousand's haven't killed themselves or others during that same time period. Teens brains are still maturing and cause them to respond to stress and peer interactions much differently. The frontal lobe is not fully developed until early adulthood. Unfortunately, reality does not match your personal experience and confirmation bias. Firearms are now responsible for more deaths in the US than any other cause including motor vehicles. No other civilized country is even close to the same rate in the same demographic.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/#:~:text=In%20the%20U.S.%2C%20teens%20ages%2018%20and%2019,in%20Canada%20%280.6%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20ages%201-19%29.

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Then you agree 18 year olds should not be allowed to vote or enter the military either, right?

As far as firearms deaths, we could solve that extremely easily: make it illegal for liberals to own firearms.

---

I'd be fine increasing the voting age to 21. If you can't be trusted to buy a beer, then I'm not sure I trust you to vote.

As far as military service, you do have to take a psych evaluation to serve. If you're willing to have each gun buyer pass a psych test for all ages, then perhaps it would be more reasonable to make the age 18.

Rapier108 said:

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Your trolling is getting weaker by the hour.

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Well I wanted to post a fact I just learned. And yes maybe a little extra.

Saving other normal posters the hassle of ridiculing this dad I guess.

Tanya 93 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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aggiehawg said:

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MarkTwain said:

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Dad will spend the rest of his life in prison as well as the son.

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Makes me very uneasy.

Civil suits for wrongful death? Okay.

Life in prison? Different question.

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I get that.

Maybe the thinking is that if we're going to hold parents accountable/responsible for everything when it comes to kids, it's hard not to put things like this in that same vein.

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If Benny runs a red light, we are not responsible

If we buy him a gun and we know he is having mental issues, we are partially responsible if he shoots up his HS.

Have no problem with dad being charged.

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Charged with manslaughter. Okay, I can see that.

Charged with murder? No way.

Heisenberg01 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Heisenberg01 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

---

AtticusMatlock said:

---

What I don't understand is why an adult would think any kid (regardless of mental health) who just turned 14 should own an AR-15. I don't understand the logic.

---

There are millions of kids over the past several hundred years that have grown up around firearms with access to the same, and never murdered anyone. Many for hunting. At times, for military service. I learned to shoot in BSA, and earned the Rifle and Shotgun merit badges at age 12. I was taught to respect guns and to treat them as tools. Responsible kids taught responsibility are fine to own firearms. Mentally unstable, irresponsible people of any age should not own firearms.

---

Just because millions of kids have grown up around firearms without killing someone doesn't mean that thousand's haven't killed themselves or others during that same time period. Teens brains are still maturing and cause them to respond to stress and peer interactions much differently. The frontal lobe is not fully developed until early adulthood. Unfortunately, reality does not match your personal experience and confirmation bias. Firearms are now responsible for more deaths in the US than any other cause including motor vehicles. No other civilized country is even close to the same rate in the same demographic.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/#:~:text=In%20the%20U.S.%2C%20teens%20ages%2018%20and%2019,in%20Canada%20%280.6%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20ages%201-19%29.

---

Then you agree 18 year olds should not be allowed to vote or enter the military either, right?

As far as firearms deaths, we could solve that extremely easily: make it illegal for liberals to own firearms.

---

I'd be fine increasing the voting age to 21. If you can't be trusted to buy a beer, then I'm not sure I trust you to vote.

As far as military service, you do have to take a psych evaluation to serve. If you're willing to have each gun buyer pass a psych test for all ages, then perhaps it would be more reasonable to make the age 18.

---

We're either adults at 18 or somewhere else.

There shouldn't be disparate treatment based on whatever the issue is because the issue might be better suited for 18 and over, or 21 and over or whatever.

It's gotta be youre an adult on your 18th birthday or you're not.

Too many people arguing whether it's okay for a child to get an AR for Christmas and whether the dad bears any liability. Is everyone forgetting that the dad bought the gift even after knowing his kid was investigated for posting suggestive thoughts on school shootings that year? Of course the dad bears liability.

Heisenberg01 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Heisenberg01 said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

AtticusMatlock said:

---

What I don't understand is why an adult would think any kid (regardless of mental health) who just turned 14 should own an AR-15. I don't understand the logic.

---

There are millions of kids over the past several hundred years that have grown up around firearms with access to the same, and never murdered anyone. Many for hunting. At times, for military service. I learned to shoot in BSA, and earned the Rifle and Shotgun merit badges at age 12. I was taught to respect guns and to treat them as tools. Responsible kids taught responsibility are fine to own firearms. Mentally unstable, irresponsible people of any age should not own firearms.

---

Just because millions of kids have grown up around firearms without killing someone doesn't mean that thousand's haven't killed themselves or others during that same time period. Teens brains are still maturing and cause them to respond to stress and peer interactions much differently. The frontal lobe is not fully developed until early adulthood. Unfortunately, reality does not match your personal experience and confirmation bias. Firearms are now responsible for more deaths in the US than any other cause including motor vehicles. No other civilized country is even close to the same rate in the same demographic.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/#:~:text=In%20the%20U.S.%2C%20teens%20ages%2018%20and%2019,in%20Canada%20%280.6%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20ages%201-19%29.

---

Then you agree 18 year olds should not be allowed to vote or enter the military either, right?

As far as firearms deaths, we could solve that extremely easily: make it illegal for liberals to own firearms.

---

I'd be fine increasing the voting age to 21. If you can't be trusted to buy a beer, then I'm not sure I trust you to vote.

As far as military service, you do have to take a psych evaluation to serve. If you're willing to have each gun buyer pass a psych test for all ages, then perhaps it would be more reasonable to make the age 18.

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The "psych eval" is two or three generic questions that are so non-specific that they border on laughable. In reality there is no psychological evaluation prior to joining the military.

TA-OP said:

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Too many people arguing whether it's okay for a child to get an AR for Christmas and whether the dad bears any liability. Is everyone forgetting that the dad bought the gift even after knowing his kid was investigated for posting suggestive thoughts on school shootings that year? Of course the dad bears liability.

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While I agree with your logic here, I am worried about how that would be expanded in the future.

What level of knowledge would a parent be required to have to be culpable. Would a failure to look into your kids activities suddenly make your culpable by a "failure to supervise."

This line of thinking could easily snowball out of control.

Daily Mail has obtained transcripts from Colt Gray's father's interview with law enforcement last year. The father reveals that his son, who is accused of carrying out a mass shooting this week at school, was bullied for being queer. https://t.co/9PDUDE0qUT pic.twitter.com/8YN1ykuNxP

— Andy Ngo 🏳️‍🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) September 6, 2024

will25u said:

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Daily Mail has obtained transcripts from Colt Gray's father's interview with law enforcement last year. The father reveals that his son, who is accused of carrying out a mass shooting this week at school, was bullied for being queer. https://t.co/9PDUDE0qUT pic.twitter.com/8YN1ykuNxP

— Andy Ngo 🏳️‍🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) September 6, 2024

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Not so fast. Read the article Ngo references. This quote could cut either way imo:

Quote:

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The account referenced Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooter, and in separate posts shared a desire to target an elementary school and expressed frustration with the acceptance of transgender people.

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If all that is accurate, it's devastating. Another child taken by the toxic culture created by social media, video games, broken families and gendery theory.

What's up with his Russian username on discord? Seems odd.

Bunk Moreland said:

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will25u said:

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Daily Mail has obtained transcripts from Colt Gray's father's interview with law enforcement last year. The father reveals that his son, who is accused of carrying out a mass shooting this week at school, was bullied for being queer. https://t.co/9PDUDE0qUT pic.twitter.com/8YN1ykuNxP

— Andy Ngo 🏳️‍🌈 (@MrAndyNgo) September 6, 2024

---

Not so fast. Read the article Ngo references. This quote could cut either way imo:

Quote:

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The account referenced Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooter, and in separate posts shared a desire to target an elementary school and expressed frustration with the acceptance of transgender people.

---

---

Well referencing other things that have been said, I take it as he is sympathetic to trans people. Also he was gay/queer which would lead me to believe he would be sympathetic to trans people as well.

Needless to say, he had a mental disorder to want to kill people, whatever his stance.

Heisenberg01 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Heisenberg01 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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What I don't understand is why an adult would think any kid (regardless of mental health) who just turned 14 should own an AR-15. I don't understand the logic.

---

There are millions of kids over the past several hundred years that have grown up around firearms with access to the same, and never murdered anyone. Many for hunting. At times, for military service. I learned to shoot in BSA, and earned the Rifle and Shotgun merit badges at age 12. I was taught to respect guns and to treat them as tools. Responsible kids taught responsibility are fine to own firearms. Mentally unstable, irresponsible people of any age should not own firearms.

---

Just because millions of kids have grown up around firearms without killing someone doesn't mean that thousand's haven't killed themselves or others during that same time period. Teens brains are still maturing and cause them to respond to stress and peer interactions much differently. The frontal lobe is not fully developed until early adulthood. Unfortunately, reality does not match your personal experience and confirmation bias. Firearms are now responsible for more deaths in the US than any other cause including motor vehicles. No other civilized country is even close to the same rate in the same demographic.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/#:~:text=In%20the%20U.S.%2C%20teens%20ages%2018%20and%2019,in%20Canada%20%280.6%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20ages%201-19%29.

---

Then you agree 18 year olds should not be allowed to vote or enter the military either, right?

As far as firearms deaths, we could solve that extremely easily: make it illegal for liberals to own firearms.

---

I'd be fine increasing the voting age to 21. If you can't be trusted to buy a beer, then I'm not sure I trust you to vote.

As far as military service, you do have to take a psych evaluation to serve. If you're willing to have each gun buyer pass a psych test for all ages, then perhaps it would be more reasonable to make the age 18.

---

So now you want the feds to determine your mental capaicty to exercise a right?

Yeah, that will NEVER be abused. Ever.

TA-OP said:

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Too many people arguing whether it's okay for a child to get an AR for Christmas and whether the dad bears any liability. Is everyone forgetting that the dad bought the gift even after knowing his kid was investigated for posting suggestive thoughts on school shootings that year? Of course the dad bears liability.

---

So if a kid learning to drive is routinely speeding, but his parents buy him a car when he turns 16 and the state grants him a license and he ends up speeding and killing a family in their minivan one day - do the parents need to be charged as well?

Heisenberg01 said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

Heisenberg01 said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

AtticusMatlock said:

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What I don't understand is why an adult would think any kid (regardless of mental health) who just turned 14 should own an AR-15. I don't understand the logic.

---

There are millions of kids over the past several hundred years that have grown up around firearms with access to the same, and never murdered anyone. Many for hunting. At times, for military service. I learned to shoot in BSA, and earned the Rifle and Shotgun merit badges at age 12. I was taught to respect guns and to treat them as tools. Responsible kids taught responsibility are fine to own firearms. Mentally unstable, irresponsible people of any age should not own firearms.

---

Just because millions of kids have grown up around firearms without killing someone doesn't mean that thousand's haven't killed themselves or others during that same time period. Teens brains are still maturing and cause them to respond to stress and peer interactions much differently. The frontal lobe is not fully developed until early adulthood. Unfortunately, reality does not match your personal experience and confirmation bias. Firearms are now responsible for more deaths in the US than any other cause including motor vehicles. No other civilized country is even close to the same rate in the same demographic.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/#:~:text=In%20the%20U.S.%2C%20teens%20ages%2018%20and%2019,in%20Canada%20%280.6%20per%20100%2C000%20people%20ages%201-19%29.

---

Then you agree 18 year olds should not be allowed to vote or enter the military either, right?

As far as firearms deaths, we could solve that extremely easily: make it illegal for liberals to own firearms.

---

I'd be fine increasing the voting age to 21. If you can't be trusted to buy a beer, then I'm not sure I trust you to vote.

As far as military service, you do have to take a psych evaluation to serve. If you're willing to have each gun buyer pass a psych test for all ages, then perhaps it would be more reasonable to make the age 18.

---

I am an Army Veteran, and I don't remember doing a psychological test to join the military. Although that was 20 years ago. Maybe it has changed, but they might ask a few general questions at MEPS, but there is was no psychological test.

Also background check, but when people join at 18-19 there probably is nothing there.

Gig em G said:

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What's up with his Russian username on discord? Seems odd.

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I read that it translates to LANZA. Like after Adam Lanza the Sandy Hook school shooter.

schmellba99 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Too many people arguing whether it's okay for a child to get an AR for Christmas and whether the dad bears any liability. Is everyone forgetting that the dad bought the gift even after knowing his kid was investigated for posting suggestive thoughts on school shootings that year? Of course the dad bears liability.

---

So if a kid learning to drive is routinely speeding, but his parents buy him a car when he turns 16 and the state grants him a license and he ends up speeding and killing a family in their minivan one day - do the parents need to be charged as well?

---

Your analogy is off. If a kid threatens to mow down crowds of people a la Darrell Brooks, and dad buys him a brodozer which is then used to carry out the threat, then I think dad bears some responsibility.

The transcript of that dad's interview with law enforcement last year gives some insight into his thought process and what was going on.

The son was clearly having a lot of mental health issues, with blame being directed at bullying at school.

Dad says the son wanted to change schools to get away from it (which is apparently what happened as he then moved to a school in a different county where this shooting then occurred).

The dad although not agreeing it happened for sure, seemed to believe plausible that his son had made threats to take violent action at the school, saying to the effect 'I hope he didn't/doesn't do something like that because then I'd have to take his access to the guns away'.

It is pretty clear that at least at that time, the dad wasn't securing the guns at home. And thus likewise a reasonable guess that the gun used in this school shooting was also not notably secured by the dad. It was the son's gun with easy access to it.

Was clear the dad felt gun ownership was a good way to improve the son's present mental health problems, talking about how it was opportunities to bond with him, hunt deer together, get out of the house and away from the video games.

When you have young man like that who apparently is an outsider at school and perhaps being verbally, even physically bullied, perhaps having a gun can help self-confidence and even give a feeling of power...but the danger here is that can lead to an obsession to the power to retaliate with violence.

And that is where the crucial flaw and poor decision making from the father IMO is apparent. Yes, hunting with your son, your son participating in gun ownership...all okay but not if the son is not only in a poor mental state but is showing clear red flags for potential violence.

You don't give a gun to a child who has made threats about shooting up his school... threats that even got you drug into an interview with law enforcement.

You want to bond with your son and get them out of the house away from the video games. Go fishing or hiking instead. Or, if guns just has to be your main go-to thing, then go hunting together but for damn sure you don't just let the kid have access to a gun all to himself. Not while there is still a lot of work to do on the mental health side.

One of the girls in the math class said that kid rarely showed up for class. He was frequently skipping school, clearly the problems from the previous school had followed him to the new one, there is no way the dad didn't know his son wasn't in a good way.

I don't agree with the 2nd degree murder charge on the dad, but I do think just like the Michigan case that involuntary manslaughter is appropriate charge at this time. And then let all the facts come out in a trial and let a jury decide.

Georgia authorities have released audio from the 2023 visit to the home of the alleged Georgia high school shooter after an anonymous report to the FBI over online threats about “possibly threatening to shoot up a middle school” in a group chat. https://t.co/rEJjnnEGUC pic.twitter.com/rkmO2Blkxo

— New York Post (@nypost) September 6, 2024

Danimal said:

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Dad made it all the way through 11th grade! Sounds about right for someone obsessed enough with guns to buy his 14 yr old and AR.

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My dad made it to the fifth grade but didn't finish the year. He killed a lot of people in the Pacific. Both of my brothers and I all had guns by 14. So far, only one brother shot someone, a guy robbing his store.

Mom was/is a long time criminal/druggie too I guess (not sure on this source)…

https://www.ibtimes.sg/who-marcee-gray-georgia-school-shooter-colt-grays-mom-has-lengthy-rap-sheet-including-drug-use-75965

Keep your trans out of reach of children.

Too many trans involved in school shootings.

schmellba99 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Too many people arguing whether it's okay for a child to get an AR for Christmas and whether the dad bears any liability. Is everyone forgetting that the dad bought the gift even after knowing his kid was investigated for posting suggestive thoughts on school shootings that year? Of course the dad bears liability.

---

So if a kid learning to drive is routinely speeding, but his parents buy him a car when he turns 16 and the state grants him a license and he ends up speeding and killing a family in their minivan one day - do the parents need to be charged as well?

---

Did the dad get some inkling that he could be capable of killing a family from an FBI investigation the same year?

Edit to add: Conservatives don't want red flag laws. One argument is it should be the family's responsibility to take the guns away from questionable individuals. The dad clearly didn't.

Danimal said:

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Dad made it all the way through 11th grade! Sounds about right for someone obsessed enough with guns to buy his 14 yr old and AR.

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Pathetic

TA-OP said:

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schmellba99 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Too many people arguing whether it's okay for a child to get an AR for Christmas and whether the dad bears any liability. Is everyone forgetting that the dad bought the gift even after knowing his kid was investigated for posting suggestive thoughts on school shootings that year? Of course the dad bears liability.

---

So if a kid learning to drive is routinely speeding, but his parents buy him a car when he turns 16 and the state grants him a license and he ends up speeding and killing a family in their minivan one day - do the parents need to be charged as well?

---

Did the dad get some inkling that he could be capable of killing a family from an FBI investigation the same year?

Edit to add: Conservatives don't want red flag laws. One argument is it should be the family's responsibility to take the guns away from questionable individuals. The dad clearly didn't.

---

Deprive a person of their rights based on hearsay?
Sounds very fascist. If you think someone e is mentally incapable of owning a firearm , put them in an asylum. Don't tell me they are ok to drive but not to own a firearm. Also we do t know the details of what's happened with the FBI ( other than what the FBI is releasing) . Some of which is to cover their ass, after failing to prevent a mass shooting yet another time.

deddog said:

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TA-OP said:

---

schmellba99 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Too many people arguing whether it's okay for a child to get an AR for Christmas and whether the dad bears any liability. Is everyone forgetting that the dad bought the gift even after knowing his kid was investigated for posting suggestive thoughts on school shootings that year? Of course the dad bears liability.

---

So if a kid learning to drive is routinely speeding, but his parents buy him a car when he turns 16 and the state grants him a license and he ends up speeding and killing a family in their minivan one day - do the parents need to be charged as well?

---

Did the dad get some inkling that he could be capable of killing a family from an FBI investigation the same year?

Edit to add: Conservatives don't want red flag laws. One argument is it should be the family's responsibility to take the guns away from questionable individuals. The dad clearly didn't.

---

Deprive a person of their rights based on hearsay?
Sounds very fascist. If you think someone e is mentally incapable of owning a firearm , put them in an asylum. Don't tell me they are ok to drive but not to own a firearm. Also we do t know the details of what's happened with the FBI ( other than what the FBI is releasing) . Some of which is to cover their ass, after failing to prevent a mass shooting yet another time.

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How is the dad taking the guns away violating his rights? You're reaching.

weird we're already learning so much about this kid and both of his parents and still nothing about Crooks.