How far inside the WH did they make it?
Ashli Babbit lawsuit
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Last: 5 mo ago by InfantryAg
They got through security. Is that ok?
Did you see the 8-10 armed cops next to and down a few stairs from her?BBRex said:
From the officer's side of the barricade, he's looking at a potential breach. She wasn't the only one on her side of the door looking to get in. Once people start coming through, there's a good chance they lose containment. She made a fatally dumb decision, and she paid the price for it. Anyone who would have tried to go through would have met the same fate.
If she was posing a lethal threat, why didn't they perceive it?
Not only was it a bad shoot, it was also a very unsafe one by an officer that failed his firearm certification multiple times and was known as a very bad shot. Byrd easily could have shot the officers behind her from the angle from which he was shooting.
Given Byrd's history, it was a minor miracle he didn't hit anyone else.
jja79 said:
They got through security. Is that ok?
Clearly they did not, since they were removed from the property before breaching the WH doors.
Gig 'Em
If she were a liberal, nobody on this thread would want the government to give her a dime.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
Anonymous Source said:jja79 said:
They got through security. Is that ok?
Clearly they did not, since they were removed from the property before breaching the WH doors.
Well that's anticlimactic.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Maybe they had different orders. Maybe the group on the steps froze when they should have taken action. Maybe the shooter was in a position to enforce the barricade that the officer on the steps could not. I don't know.
As for his shot, he was close enough to make it count. If he has missed, I would be advocating for him to face charges. As it was, he hit who he was aiming at.
As for his shot, he was close enough to make it count. If he has missed, I would be advocating for him to face charges. As it was, he hit who he was aiming at.
Don't forget, she was only acting on orders from the President of The United States!aggiehawg said:Did you see the 8-10 armed cops next to and down a few stairs from her?BBRex said:
From the officer's side of the barricade, he's looking at a potential breach. She wasn't the only one on her side of the door looking to get in. Once people start coming through, there's a good chance they lose containment. She made a fatally dumb decision, and she paid the price for it. Anyone who would have tried to go through would have met the same fate.
If she was posing a lethal threat, why didn't they perceive it?
Not only was it a bad shoot, it was also a very unsafe one by an officer that failed his firearm certification multiple times and was known as a very bad shot. Byrd easily could have shot the officers behind her from the angle from which he was shooting.
Given Byrd's history, it was a minor miracle he didn't hit anyone else.
It is much easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone that he has been fooled.
Please recite those orders.
Precisely, you do not know because you have chosen not to know.BBRex said:
Maybe they had different orders. Maybe the group on the steps froze when they should have taken action. Maybe the shooter was in a position to enforce the barricade that the officer on the steps could not. I don't know.
As for his shot, he was close enough to make it count. If he has missed, I would be advocating for him to face charges. As it was, he hit who he was aiming at.
I made the other choice. And I do know what happened. I just don't understand why or who to ultimately blame other than Pelosi and Schumer for creating that chaos by not having adequate security placed in advance.
And the training for Capitol Hill Police is very dismal. They are literally the Keystone Cops they are so inept.
Well, then, I hope they call you to testify.
Why would they call me? I have no first hand knowledge. Was not in DC that day (at the ranch in Texas) nor obviously took none of the videos.BBRex said:
Well, then, I hope they call you to testify.
Have you ever even watched a trial? Know how Rules of Evidence work?
LOL.
Oh, I don't remember the exact words, but I knew what he meant.Rockdoc said:
Please recite those orders.
It is much easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone that he has been fooled.
Watermelon Man said:Oh, I don't remember the exact words, but I knew what he meant.Rockdoc said:
Please recite those orders.
Yeah that's what I thought.
You keep going back to whether it was a good shoot based on whether she was armed. That isn't always the criteria. If I walk into a military installation unarmed, can I assume I won't get shot? No matter where I go? I don't think so.
Okay, let's really put this into perspective, eh?
In 2016, when Trump was making a campaign appearance and a man rushed the stage. Secret Service of all law enforcement can shoot to kill ANY THREAT to their protectee.
But they are well trained and do not shoot first and ask questions later. They neutralize the threat while protecting their assigned charge.
Byrd wasn't protecting anyone. Not himself, nor anyone else that day, as they were not in the Speaker's Lobby, nor the Retiring Room.
In 2016, when Trump was making a campaign appearance and a man rushed the stage. Secret Service of all law enforcement can shoot to kill ANY THREAT to their protectee.
But they are well trained and do not shoot first and ask questions later. They neutralize the threat while protecting their assigned charge.
Byrd wasn't protecting anyone. Not himself, nor anyone else that day, as they were not in the Speaker's Lobby, nor the Retiring Room.
Rockdoc said:Watermelon Man said:Oh, I don't remember the exact words, but I knew what he meant.Rockdoc said:
Please recite those orders.
Yeah that's what I thought.
Probably what Ashli thought, too.
It is much easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone that he has been fooled.
Hands up?BBRex said:
You keep going back to whether it was a good shoot based on whether she was armed. That isn't always the criteria. If I walk into a military installation unarmed, can I assume I won't get shot? No matter where I go? I don't think so.
No you will not be shot, if the MP are well trained.
Capitol Hill Police are not well trained, assuming they are trained much at all. How many military police fail their firearms training and keep their firearms?
You seem to be declaring that you did? Or did I misread that post?
lol
you breach a base you get shot
and should be
no one should expect to storm the capitol and not get shot
thank you police
you breach a base you get shot
and should be
no one should expect to storm the capitol and not get shot
thank you police
Old Army has gone to hell.
You apparently cheered this.Old Army Ghost said:
lol
you breach a base you get shot
and should be
no one should expect to storm the capitol and not get shot
thank you police
Who you are.
YOU support that.Quote:
On November 5, 2009, 13 people are killed and more than 30 others are wounded, nearly all of them unarmed soldiers, when a U.S. Army officer goes on a shooting rampage at Fort Hood in central Texas. The deadly assault, carried out by Major Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, was the worst mass shooting at a U.S. military installation.
Early in the afternoon of November 5, 39-year-old Hasan, armed with a semi-automatic pistol, shouted "Allahu Akbar" (Arabic for "God is great") and then opened fire at a crowd inside a Fort Hood processing center where soldiers who were about to be deployed overseas or were returning from deployment received medical screenings. The massacre, which left 12 service members and one Department of Defense employee dead, lasted approximately 10 minutes before Hasan was shot by civilian police and taken into custody.
The Virginia-born Hasan, the son of Palestinian immigrants who ran a Roanoke restaurant and convenience store, graduated from Virginia Tech University and completed his psychiatry training at the Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland, in 2003. He went on to work at Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington, D.C., treating soldiers returning from war with post-traumatic stress disorder. In May 2009, he was promoted to the rank of major in the Army, and that July, was transferred to Fort Hood. Located near the city of Killeen, Fort Hood, which includes 340 square miles of facilities and homes, is the largest active-duty U.S. military post. At the time of the shootings, more than 50,000 military personnel lived and worked there, along with thousands more family members and civilian personnel.
In the aftermath of the massacre, reviews by the Pentagon and a U.S. Senate panel found Hasan's superiors had continued to promote him despite the fact that concerns had been raised over his behavior, which suggested he had become a radical and potentially violent Islamic extremist. Among other things, Hasan stated publicly that America's war on terrorism was really a war against Islam.
In 2013,
Hasan, who was left paralyzed from the waist down as a result of shots fired at him by police attempting to stop his rampage, was tried in military court, where he acted as his own attorney. During his opening statement, he admitted he was the shooter. (Hasan had previously told a judge that in an effort to protect Muslims and Taliban leaders in Afghanistan, he had gunned down the soldiers at Fort Hood who were being deployed to that nation.) For the rest of the trial, Hasan called no witnesses, presented scant
evidence and made no closing argument. On August 23, 2013, a jury found Hasan guilty of 45 counts of premeditated murder and attempted premeditated murder, and he later was sentenced to death for his crimes.
LINK
Watermelon Man said:Rockdoc said:Watermelon Man said:Oh, I don't remember the exact words, but I knew what he meant.Rockdoc said:
Please recite those orders.
Yeah that's what I thought.
Probably what Ashli thought, too.
So let's hear it since you brought it up.
aggiehawg said:You apparently cheered this.Old Army Ghost said:
lol
you breach a base you get shot
and should be
no one should expect to storm the capitol and not get shot
thank you police
Who you are.YOU support that.Quote:
On November 5, 2009, 13 people are killed and more than 30 others are wounded, nearly all of them unarmed soldiers, when a U.S. Army officer goes on a shooting rampage at Fort Hood in central Texas. The deadly assault, carried out by Major Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, was the worst mass shooting at a U.S. military installation.
Early in the afternoon of November 5, 39-year-old Hasan, armed with a semi-automatic pistol, shouted "Allahu Akbar" (Arabic for "God is great") and then opened fire at a crowd inside a Fort Hood processing center where soldiers who were about to be deployed overseas or were returning from deployment received medical screenings. The massacre, which left 12 service members and one Department of Defense employee dead, lasted approximately 10 minutes before Hasan was shot by civilian police and taken into custody.
The Virginia-born Hasan, the son of Palestinian immigrants who ran a Roanoke restaurant and convenience store, graduated from Virginia Tech University and completed his psychiatry training at the Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland, in 2003. He went on to work at Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington, D.C., treating soldiers returning from war with post-traumatic stress disorder. In May 2009, he was promoted to the rank of major in the Army, and that July, was transferred to Fort Hood. Located near the city of Killeen, Fort Hood, which includes 340 square miles of facilities and homes, is the largest active-duty U.S. military post. At the time of the shootings, more than 50,000 military personnel lived and worked there, along with thousands more family members and civilian personnel.
In the aftermath of the massacre, reviews by the Pentagon and a U.S. Senate panel found Hasan's superiors had continued to promote him despite the fact that concerns had been raised over his behavior, which suggested he had become a radical and potentially violent Islamic extremist. Among other things, Hasan stated publicly that America's war on terrorism was really a war against Islam.
In 2013,
Hasan, who was left paralyzed from the waist down as a result of shots fired at him by police attempting to stop his rampage, was tried in military court, where he acted as his own attorney. During his opening statement, he admitted he was the shooter. (Hasan had previously told a judge that in an effort to protect Muslims and Taliban leaders in Afghanistan, he had gunned down the soldiers at Fort Hood who were being deployed to that nation.) For the rest of the trial, Hasan called no witnesses, presented scant
evidence and made no closing argument. On August 23, 2013, a jury found Hasan guilty of 45 counts of premeditated murder and attempted premeditated murder, and he later was sentenced to death for his crimes.
LINK
What a bizarre comparison.
Old Army Ghost said:
lol
you breach a base you get shot
and should be
no one should expect to storm the capitol and not get shot
thank you police
Your party is just lucky the shooter was black. No problem.
wut is going on here
supporting the blue doesnt mean supporting arab terrorists
supporting the blue doesnt mean supporting arab terrorists
Old Army has gone to hell.
No Spin Ag said:Old Ag 74 said:So you would have been okay with the police shooting all the rioters that looted closed stores in Minneapolis after the George Floyd incident? Cool!Tanya 93 said:Ellis Wyatt said:
I guess I missed the death penalty as one of the appropriate punishments for trespassing at a government building in daylight while unarmed.
So we should not shoot people breaking into locked areas?
Cool
If law enforcement gives someone a direct order because they're breaking the law and they don't obey, they're fair game. It's that simple.
There are federal use of deadly force regulations and disobeying what you call an order here is NOT one of them. So your assertion is not only incorrect, it is ludicrous.
91AggieLawyer said:No Spin Ag said:Old Ag 74 said:So you would have been okay with the police shooting all the rioters that looted closed stores in Minneapolis after the George Floyd incident? Cool!Tanya 93 said:Ellis Wyatt said:
I guess I missed the death penalty as one of the appropriate punishments for trespassing at a government building in daylight while unarmed.
So we should not shoot people breaking into locked areas?
Cool
If law enforcement gives someone a direct order because they're breaking the law and they don't obey, they're fair game. It's that simple.
There are federal use of deadly force regulations and disobeying what you call an order here is NOT one of them. So your assertion is not only incorrect, it is ludicrous.
And yet...
Quote:
USCP's Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) determined the officer's conduct was lawful and within Department policy, which says an officer may use deadly force only when the officer reasonably believes that action is in the defense of human life, including the officer's own life, or in the defense of any person in immediate danger of serious physical injury.
The officer in this case, who is not being identified for the officer's safety, will not be facing internal discipline.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong.
Bad shoot
You continue to misrepresent the timeline that day. There were others in the Speaker's Lobby and surrounding areas, including the House chamber.aggiehawg said:
Byrd wasn't protecting anyone. Not himself, nor anyone else that day, as they were not in the Speaker's Lobby, nor the Retiring Room.
At the time of the shooting, there are others inside the same room (Speaker's Lobby) as Bryd. Likewise, there are House members and staffers who had 2 minutes prior evacuated the lower House chamber. There are House members and staffers still inside the upper gallery of the House chamber. And there are other personnel still in adjacent halls/rooms and/or on the move. There is no evidence to indicate Bryd did not believe he was protecting these others.
We know that the door to the Speaker's Lobby, where Babbit is shot, is less than 10 feet immediately adjacent to the first of four doors from the Speaker's Lobby directly into the House chambers.
2:49pm EST: House members in the upper gallery are evacuated.
2:44pm EST: Ashli Babbit is shot as she attempts to enter the Speaker's Lobby (highlighted in red in floorplan).
2:42pm EST: Last staffers and lawmakers evacuate House chamber floor, but those in the upper gallery remain.
2:38pm EST: Capitol Police and staffers barricade main entrance of House floor (the oppose side of the doors from the Speaker's Lobby, highlighted in yellow in floorplan).
Timestamps
https://www.c-span.org/video/?323359-5/ray-smock-house-speakers-lobby
Edit: added House chambers image
Edit 2: added Speaker's Lobby door image
https://tips.fbi.gov/
1-800-225-5324
1-800-225-5324
why are you posting in a racist mockery of how many black people talk?Old Army Ghost said:
why she refuse to obey the police
why she continue to be a threat
why she choose to storm the capital
she made choices and bad ones resulting in her death
People trying to apply the Castle Doctrine to unarmed individuals climbing through a door to a hallway in the Capitol not assaulting or battering someone….wow some of you are legal idiots.
Do you even know who was directly behind her?Ed Harley said:The dozens of people directly behind her, maybe? She can still be the physical lead person in a group, even if she didn't know them. But you knew that.aggiehawg said:Now she was leading a group? Which group? She flew to DC alone to attend the rally.Quote:
This was a woman leading a group of people trying to climb through a broken window that she helped break so she could get to the Capitol which held all US Senators, Congressmen, and the VP at the time.
I strongly suggest you watch the videos
Directly behind her was a SWAT Team coming up the stairs behind her. literally three feet behind her.
This guy in a suit who appears to be perhaps CHPD was leading a SWAT Team up the stairs directly behine Babbit. When she fell back this CHPD plainclothes officer knelt over her and the team cleared the area to try and get her medical assistance ASAP
This screen capture is before Babbitt tried to climb through the window, and these two guys were working on trying to break down the doors. Notice who is standing in the background. Looks like a CHPD officer geared up in kevlar and what looks like an AR-15 butt showing.
Seconds later the plainclothes CHPD looks through the broken window to see who fired the shot.
I finally found a YouTube POV of the shooting and it clearly shows the team that was lead by the plainclothes CHPD who was right there when shots were fired, she all but fell back into the CHPD's lap
Lt. Michael Byrd panic and fired a shot that not only killed Babbitt but put fellow officers possibly in the line of fire. That type of action is against ROE standards unless he was in a life or death situation. Had she come through the window and came towards him, he would have an argument to be made, however she wasn't even fully through the window because she fell back into the foyer right into the response team that was directly behind her. The Plainclothes CHPD literally stopped her from falling all the way to the floor and laid her down and immediately tried to assist her, and you see the team members rendering assistance and clearing the area, so they can get medial help there.
This was a bad shoot, and if this were to have happened in an urban setting, Lt Byrd would be in front of a Firearm Discharge Review Board and would have likely lost his badge. In ANY police Dept across the nation, if an officer's discharge of a firearm that results in the physical injury or death of a person, even if it is an accidental discharge, ends up normally, immediately removed from duty, either sent home or rides a desk until the FDRB conveins and it's determined whether of not it was a justified shoot and kill or not. Byrd's life was not in immediate danger, and he panicked.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
AggieKatie2 said:
People trying to apply the Castle Doctrine to unarmed individuals climbing through a door to a hallway in the Capitol not assaulting or battering someone….wow some of you are legal idiots.
It's done to provoke a reaction. Some people are disgruntled, and simply live to get a rise out of others.
If Ashli Babbit was swinging a skateboard or a deadly weapon at an officer I would 100% say drop her. It's tragic, but she asked for it in that hypothetical scenario.
The posters hopping around saying "she killed herself, she got herself killed, she asked for it," post after post are often the ones who are upset about castle Doctrine threads, Rittenhouse threads, blm threads, etc. They're on here because they want to get the same rise out of others...they just don't have a case here. What happened at the Capitol sticks out like a turd in a bunch bowl. Something else was going on, and I believe politicians may have both instigated the crowd through subversive means, and poked holes in defense strategy to allow this to happen.
BoydCrowder13 said:Get Off My Lawn said:Grapesoda2525 said:
Don't get why leftists are so obsessed with this man. He shouldn't have been anywhere near counterfeits , and he had no business taking lethal quantities of fentanyl.
He got what was coming to him. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
It's comparable to me trying to swim thru an alligator / snake infested swamp and expecting to not get bitten. Woman had no common sense at all.
So you are acknowledging that the Babbit stuff is the right wing version of George Floyd?
I have not seen the video. Was she high on drugs and resisting arrest?
BoydCrowder13 said:Get Off My Lawn said:Grapesoda2525 said:
Don't get why leftists are so obsessed with this man. He shouldn't have been anywhere near counterfeits , and he had no business taking lethal quantities of fentanyl.
He got what was coming to him. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
It's comparable to me trying to swim thru an alligator / snake infested swamp and expecting to not get bitten. Woman had no common sense at all.
So you are acknowledging that the Babbit stuff is the right wing version of George Floyd?
Here's the definition of disingenuous, for you to digest.
Disingenuous: not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
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