aginlakeway said:

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tallgrant said:

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2PacShakur said:

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aggiehawg said:

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By that I mean they already hid the 302 from the ME that was damaging to the state's case. If something else comes out with the prosecution breaking the rules somewhere else? That dumb exchange is free game to corroborate intent to deprive Chauvin of a fair trial.

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It wasn't. Wish people read it.

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I think you're the biggest offender. Let's break down the sentence you're having difficulty with:

Dr. Baker "defined the mechanism of death as Floyd's heart and lungs stopping due to the combined effects of his health problems as well as the exertion and restraint involved in Floyd's interaction with police prior to being on the ground".

We're going to focus on the last clause in the sentence. When we look at the adjective "prior", it is referencing a compound subject. That compound subject is "exertion and restraint". What this means is that in the FBI's 302, Floyd's heart and lungs stopped working BEFORE Floyd goes onto the ground, and hence BEFORE Chauvin puts his knee on his neck. If that's truly the ME's opinion, this is a HUGE problem for the prosecution in this case.

You've mostly been saying "that's not what the 302 says." without anything to back it up. I think you can either break down why the rest of us read the grammar in this sentence differently, or else stop throwing out baseless ideas.

Edited to shorten the original quote and clean up some grammar

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Yep. Huge problem. But I'm sure 2PacShakur will be along shortly to tell us why this is great news for the prosecution.

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Quote:

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... [Introductions, etc.]

The case title of "Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression" mirrors the cause of death. A manner of death was not listed because that was the procedure at the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office.

... [More general, and background information]

[Paraphrasing:] Autopsy 12 hours post-mortem is normal and routine. Blood samples used for tox reports.

Cardiopulmonary arrest defined for a lay person would be the stopping of the heart and lungs. Other factors that contributed to Floyd's cardiopulmonary arrest included hypertension, the presence of fentanyl and methamphetamine, as well as arteriosclerotic heart disease.

The term "complicating" in the case title was a medical term meaning occurring after, during, or as a result of.

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Quote:

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Cardiopulmonary arrest occurring after, during, or as a result of law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression

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tallgrant said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Yep. Huge problem. But I'm sure 2PacShakur will be along shortly to tell us why this is great news for the prosecution.

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No, he'll ignore the previous statement, skip down to the part of the report that says "All of these things [the products of Floyd struggling with police] increased the possibility of a bad outcome" and pretend he's refuted everything well.

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Lethal.

Dose.

Of.

Fentanyl.

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schwack schwack said:

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How do you think jurors interpret the fact that the state has several people at the table & the defense has one guy & his assistant?

Is it viewed as "overkill" and perhaps intimidation? Mr. Schwack was called once in a big case in Dallas - not criminal - but one side was hauling in dollys full of boxes and boxes of documents & the other side was just a lady and her attorney sitting at their table. It made an initial negative impression on him. He didn't get picked because we owned our own business.

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Maroon Dawn said:

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2PacShakur said:

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aginlakeway said:

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tallgrant said:

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2PacShakur said:

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aggiehawg said:

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By that I mean they already hid the 302 from the ME that was damaging to the state's case. If something else comes out with the prosecution breaking the rules somewhere else? That dumb exchange is free game to corroborate intent to deprive Chauvin of a fair trial.

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It wasn't. Wish people read it.

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I think you're the biggest offender. Let's break down the sentence you're having difficulty with:

Dr. Baker "defined the mechanism of death as Floyd's heart and lungs stopping due to the combined effects of his health problems as well as the exertion and restraint involved in Floyd's interaction with police prior to being on the ground".

We're going to focus on the last clause in the sentence. When we look at the adjective "prior", it is referencing a compound subject. That compound subject is "exertion and restraint". What this means is that in the FBI's 302, Floyd's heart and lungs stopped working BEFORE Floyd goes onto the ground, and hence BEFORE Chauvin puts his knee on his neck. If that's truly the ME's opinion, this is a HUGE problem for the prosecution in this case.

You've mostly been saying "that's not what the 302 says." without anything to back it up. I think you can either break down why the rest of us read the grammar in this sentence differently, or else stop throwing out baseless ideas.

Edited to shorten the original quote and clean up some grammar

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Yep. Huge problem. But I'm sure 2PacShakur will be along shortly to tell us why this is great news for the prosecution.

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The ME defines how George Floyd died in the first few statements past the general info stuff:

Quote:

---

... [Introductions, etc.]

The case title of "Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression" mirrors the cause of death. A manner of death was not listed because that was the procedure at the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office.

... [More general, and background information]

[Paraphrasing:] Autopsy 12 hours post-mortem is normal and routine. Blood samples used for tox reports.

Cardiopulmonary arrest defined for a lay person would be the stopping of the heart and lungs. Other factors that contributed to Floyd's cardiopulmonary arrest included hypertension, the presence of fentanyl and methamphetamine, as well as arteriosclerotic heart disease.

The term "complicating" in the case title was a medical term meaning occurring after, during, or as a result of.

---

So, to help explain the case title and the cause of death listed on the ME report:

Quote:

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Cardiopulmonary arrest occurring after, during, or as a result of law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression

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Some will pick out the term "contributed to" Floyd's cardio event but "contributed" is not the same as "result of". People are allowed to live unhealthy lifestyles and they shouldn't have to train to be in peak physical health to receive continuing police abuse (allegedly).

I've already explained how selective editing of the 302 would have you suggest the cardio event occurred prior to him being restrained on the ground but "prior" was only used to describe a sequence of events.

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Lethal.

Dose.

Of.

Fentanyl.

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Quote:

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"I'm skeptical of the notion of opioid overdose as the cause here," said David Juurlink, head of the Division of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Center in Toronto. "The sequence of events isn't characteristic of opioid overdose."

Fentanyl kills by shutting down the part of the brain that controls respiration. Breathing slows, then stops, followed by the heart.

If Floyd had ingested an opioid and fell asleep on his way toward an overdose death, several experts told The Post, he wouldn't, or couldn't, have spent the next 20 minutes coherently interacting with police, repeatedly describing his claustrophobia and anxiety, battling with them as they tried to put him in a squad car and struggling against the three officers who pinned him facedown on the street. Instead, he would have become even more sluggish on the path toward unconsciousness and death, these experts said.

"It's just complete garbage to call it an overdose," said Kimberly Sue, medical director of the Harm Reduction Coalition and a Yale School of Medicine instructor. In an opioid overdose, "a person is basically blue, unresponsive. It happens usually from the moment people use to 10 minutes."

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tallgrant said:

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2PacShakur said:

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aggiehawg said:

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By that I mean they already hid the 302 from the ME that was damaging to the state's case. If something else comes out with the prosecution breaking the rules somewhere else? That dumb exchange is free game to corroborate intent to deprive Chauvin of a fair trial.

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It wasn't. Wish people read it.

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I think you're the biggest offender. Let's break down the sentence you're having difficulty with:

Dr. Baker "defined the mechanism of death as Floyd's heart and lungs stopping due to the combined effects of his health problems as well as the exertion and restraint involved in Floyd's interaction with police prior to being on the ground".

We're going to focus on the last clause in the sentence. When we look at the adjective "prior", it is referencing a compound subject. That compound subject is "exertion and restraint". What this means is that in the FBI's 302, Floyd's heart and lungs stopped working BEFORE Floyd goes onto the ground, and hence BEFORE Chauvin puts his knee on his neck. If that's truly the ME's opinion, this is a HUGE problem for the prosecution in this case.

You've mostly been saying "that's not what the 302 says." without anything to back it up. I think you can either break down why the rest of us read the grammar in this sentence differently, or else stop throwing out baseless ideas.

Edited to shorten the original quote and clean up some grammar

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2PacShakur said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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2PacShakur said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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2PacShakur said:

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aginlakeway said:

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tallgrant said:

---

2PacShakur said:

---

aggiehawg said:

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By that I mean they already hid the 302 from the ME that was damaging to the state's case. If something else comes out with the prosecution breaking the rules somewhere else? That dumb exchange is free game to corroborate intent to deprive Chauvin of a fair trial.

---

It wasn't. Wish people read it.

---

I think you're the biggest offender. Let's break down the sentence you're having difficulty with:

Dr. Baker "defined the mechanism of death as Floyd's heart and lungs stopping due to the combined effects of his health problems as well as the exertion and restraint involved in Floyd's interaction with police prior to being on the ground".

We're going to focus on the last clause in the sentence. When we look at the adjective "prior", it is referencing a compound subject. That compound subject is "exertion and restraint". What this means is that in the FBI's 302, Floyd's heart and lungs stopped working BEFORE Floyd goes onto the ground, and hence BEFORE Chauvin puts his knee on his neck. If that's truly the ME's opinion, this is a HUGE problem for the prosecution in this case.

You've mostly been saying "that's not what the 302 says." without anything to back it up. I think you can either break down why the rest of us read the grammar in this sentence differently, or else stop throwing out baseless ideas.

Edited to shorten the original quote and clean up some grammar

---

Yep. Huge problem. But I'm sure 2PacShakur will be along shortly to tell us why this is great news for the prosecution.

---

The ME defines how George Floyd died in the first few statements past the general info stuff:

Quote:

---

... [Introductions, etc.]

The case title of "Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression" mirrors the cause of death. A manner of death was not listed because that was the procedure at the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office.

... [More general, and background information]

[Paraphrasing:] Autopsy 12 hours post-mortem is normal and routine. Blood samples used for tox reports.

Cardiopulmonary arrest defined for a lay person would be the stopping of the heart and lungs. Other factors that contributed to Floyd's cardiopulmonary arrest included hypertension, the presence of fentanyl and methamphetamine, as well as arteriosclerotic heart disease.

The term "complicating" in the case title was a medical term meaning occurring after, during, or as a result of.

---

So, to help explain the case title and the cause of death listed on the ME report:

Quote:

---

Cardiopulmonary arrest occurring after, during, or as a result of law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression

---

Some will pick out the term "contributed to" Floyd's cardio event but "contributed" is not the same as "result of". People are allowed to live unhealthy lifestyles and they shouldn't have to train to be in peak physical health to receive continuing police abuse (allegedly).

I've already explained how selective editing of the 302 would have you suggest the cardio event occurred prior to him being restrained on the ground but "prior" was only used to describe a sequence of events.

---

Lethal.

Dose.

Of.

Fentanyl.

---

Police are trained to identify fentanyl overdoses and are trained to apply naloxone, which wasn't used. Are you saying that the officers involved in went against their training and denied him naloxone?

From Washington Post:

Quote:

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"I'm skeptical of the notion of opioid overdose as the cause here," said David Juurlink, head of the Division of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Center in Toronto. "The sequence of events isn't characteristic of opioid overdose."

Fentanyl kills by shutting down the part of the brain that controls respiration. Breathing slows, then stops, followed by the heart.

If Floyd had ingested an opioid and fell asleep on his way toward an overdose death, several experts told The Post, he wouldn't, or couldn't, have spent the next 20 minutes coherently interacting with police, repeatedly describing his claustrophobia and anxiety, battling with them as they tried to put him in a squad car and struggling against the three officers who pinned him facedown on the street. Instead, he would have become even more sluggish on the path toward unconsciousness and death, these experts said.

"It's just complete garbage to call it an overdose," said Kimberly Sue, medical director of the Harm Reduction Coalition and a Yale School of Medicine instructor. In an opioid overdose, "a person is basically blue, unresponsive. It happens usually from the moment people use to 10 minutes."

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Not.

How.

Drugs.

Work.

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Exactly.

How.

Fentanyl.

Works.

Citing some idiot saying "nuH-uh" isn't going to stop the defense from pointing out he gave himself a lethal dose of the stuff as the cops approached him as was confirmed by his blood work

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You may dismiss her because she's woman, but she's a medical director at Yale School of Medicine and presumably not an "idiot".

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Maroon Dawn said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Maroon Dawn said:

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Lethal.

Dose.

Of.

Fentanyl.

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That sure sounds like reasonable doubt to me.

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2Pac is doing his best to ignore it

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schwack schwack said:

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This lady is really "croaky".

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2PacShakur said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Citing some idiot saying "nuH-uh" isn't going to stop the defense from pointing out he gave himself a lethal dose of the stuff as the cops approached him

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And that it was the second time in a year that he ingested upon approach by officers. The 2019 incident, he was resuscitated at the hopsital.

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And the two major deltas between the two incidences: 1) he lived, and 2) lack of Chauvin's (or other) knee. I'm not defending him as a sinner or saint, I'm mostly arguing that Chauvin never took an action to decrease risk of life to Floyd after he was effectively neutralized using a technique (albeit improperly) that's very use is intended to do harm in order to neutralize a threat.

Police have wide latitude to define resistance, and threat levels, but they should also be held accountable from abuse of the public trust that permits them the same wide latitude to keep the public safe.

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2PacShakur said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Citing some idiot saying "nuH-uh" isn't going to stop the defense from pointing out he gave himself a lethal dose of the stuff as the cops approached him

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And that it was the second time in a year that he ingested upon approach by officers. The 2019 incident, he was resuscitated at the hopsital.

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And the two major deltas between the two incidences: 1) he lived, and 2) lack of Chauvin's (or other) knee. I'm not defending him as a sinner or saint, I'm mostly arguing that Chauvin never took an action to decrease risk of life to Floyd after he was effectively neutralized using a technique (albeit improperly) that's very use is intended to do harm in order to neutralize a threat.

Police have wide latitude to define resistance, and threat levels, but they should also be held accountable from abuse of the public trust that permits them the same wide latitude to keep the public safe.

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