George Floyd case-latest developments

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BMX Bandit
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In reply to thirdcoast • 8:22a, 3/10/21
his blood supply was not cut off for 8 minutes. you keep claiming that, but there is no evidence that happened. your MMA theory was thoroughly beaten down months ago. it was quite the hot take then, now its just showing you refuse to learn about this case. YOU keep bringing up MMA. you want us to ignore that for some reason. interesting.
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thirdcoast
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In reply to aggiehawg • 8:23a, 3/10/21
AG
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
If you are in the camp that believes Floyd OD'd precisely when being choked, you are not very different from biased OJ supporters rooting for innocence.
Or we know how to read an autopsy report and when the ME says under any other circumstances, he would rule Floyd's death an overdose, that throws his supposition of manner of death as homicide into question.


The glove didn't fit OJ. That was BS, but good strategy.

I'm not saying the legal defense shouldn't use this, and that there isn't a legal argument to raise reasonable doubt.

I'm saying you don't understand probabilities if you think Floyd died of OD during the last few min he was being choked.

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aggiehawg
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8:25a, 3/10/21
AG
Are they really arguing about the prosecution's use of Chauvin's invocation of his 5th Amendment rights as being off-limits? Really?
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thirdcoast
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 8:27a, 3/10/21
AG
BMX Bandit said:
his blood supply was not cut off for 8 minutes. you keep claiming that, but there is no evidence that happened. your MMA theory was thoroughly beaten down months ago. it was quite the hot take then, now its just showing you refuse to learn about this case. YOU keep bringing up MMA. you want us to ignore that for some reason. interesting.


How long was the blood oxygen supply cut off to his brain? Or are you claiming that didn't happen at all?

Also, you didn't answer the key question, and defelcted again..

Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?

Where else is choking unconscious video documented anywhere near the level of televised MMA? The answer is no where.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to thirdcoast • 8:34a, 3/10/21
AG
Quote:
The glove didn't fit OJ. That was BS, but good strategy.
You don't know the backstory to that. During a break in the trial, the gloves had been left on the stand. F. Lee Bailey approached and noted that the gloves were shrunken from the dried blood. He told Cochran, Cochran instructed OJ to stop taking his arthritis medication so that his knuckles would become inflamed and swell.

So OJ was off his medication for a couple of days. So Cochran decided to goad Darden into having OJ try on the gloves in front of the jury. Darden and Cochran had a long standing relationship prior to the OJ trial. Marcia Clark had specifically instructed Darden not to have OJ try on the gloves in front of the jury but Cochran was successful in daring Darden to do otherwise. Even without the gloves being blood soaked, they wouldn't have fit with OJ's hands being swollen and inflamed.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to thirdcoast • 8:39a, 3/10/21
AG
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.
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thirdcoast
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In reply to aggiehawg • 8:44a, 3/10/21
AG
You are 100% right. Even if OJ's hands weren't swollen, anyone could act like a glove doesn't fit...you just flex your hand and fingers, make facial gestures of difficulty etc. It was total BS, but the defense was smart to do it.

Likewise claiming Floyd died of drug OD because the autopsy showed high levels of drugs in system is also a very smart strategy.

All I was looking for was common sense here. Every single person here knows that if that elite athlete in superb health they saw choked unconscious on TV would likely be dead if they had continued to be choked for 5min straight, rather than broken up within seconds of passing out. And that autopsy wouldn't show physical signs of bodily harm that the choke caused the death. That's it.
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aggiehawg
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8:45a, 3/10/21
AG
I think Cahill is walking a very fine line on excluding the May 2019 arrest and OD by Floyd. I also think the prosecution will easily open that door anyway with drug addiction testimony. Using his buddies and family members who did drugs with him, opens the door, in my view.
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etxag02
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In reply to aggiehawg • 8:48a, 3/10/21
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.


That's not true.

The Hennepin Co and family-ordered autopsies ruled homicide as the cause of death due to his restraint. The Hennepin Co report did list drug use as being a factor that could have contributed to the death of George Floyd. But it reported that neck compression and cardiopulmonary arrest played a larger role in his death.
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thirdcoast
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In reply to aggiehawg • 8:51a, 3/10/21
AG
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.


So you don't believe someone could have their blood supply cut off to brain without causing enough trauma to be pronounced as cause of death in an autopsy?

I disagree. I believe it's possible to choke someone to death without leaving enough bodily damage to be listed as cause of death. Especially if the dead person has high amounts of drugs in system. Also, especially if an arm or leg is used to strangle, instead of an instrument.

It's common sense and probabilities when you consider evidence. I know that is completely separate from legal arguments in court.
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2PacShakur
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In reply to aggiehawg • 8:51a, 3/10/21
AG
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.
That's cause choking to death wasn't the manner of death, homicide was.
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GeorgiAg
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In reply to thirdcoast • 8:52a, 3/10/21
AG
thirdcoast said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.


So you don't believe someone could have their blood supply cut off to brain without causing enough trauma to be pronounced as cause of death in an autopsy?

I disagree. I believe it's possible to choke someone to death without leaving enough bodily damage to be listed as cause of death. Especially if the dead person has high amounts of drugs in system. Also, especially if an arm or leg is used to strangle, instead of an instrument.
Reasonable doubt. If one juror gets one, it's over. "It's possible" won't cut it.
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Good Poster
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8:52a, 3/10/21
AG
the autopsy ordered by the family was already ruled non-admissible
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thirdcoast
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 8:55a, 3/10/21
AG
You are right.

I'm questioning people here like BMX with weak arguments that an autopsy would show damage of oxygen supply to brain being cut off for a few minutes.
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aggiehawg
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8:57a, 3/10/21
AG
It is clear at this point that the prosecution will be throwing everything but the kitchen sink into this case to distract the jury from the facts. They don't have a strong case outside of the eight minute viral video.

That video does look bad, very incriminating and if the medical evidence remotely backed it up, slam dunk case. But the medical evidence and the body cam evidence does not corroborate what nearly everyone though they were seeing on that truncated video.

The ME's 302 even stated that Floyd's physical exertions before the neck restraint was even applied were more instrumental in causing the cardiopulmonary arrest given Floyd's preexisting medical conditions (75% blocked artery for one thing) and level of intoxication from his voluntary ingestion of illegal drugs.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to thirdcoast • 9:00a, 3/10/21
thirdcoast said:
You are right.

I'm questioning people here like BMX with weak arguments that an autopsy would show damage of oxygen supply to brain being cut off for a few minutes.
stop making things up.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Good Poster • 9:03a, 3/10/21
AG
Good Poster said:
the autopsy ordered by the family was already ruled non-admissible
Not exactly. The prosecution has not listed Dr. Baden nor Dr. Wilson on their witness list. At least one of those two would have to testify to establish the foundation for such report to become admissible under any circumstance.

In the absence of such testimony, their report is inadmissible on its own.

I remain unclear whether the defense may decide to call one or the other as part of the case in chief. We'll see.
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Martin Cash
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9:03a, 3/10/21
AG
I've never seen any hint that he choked to death.

What was caught in his throat?
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aggiehawg
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9:05a, 3/10/21
AG
Juror #20 is up. Male, sounds late 30s maybe early 40s. Minnesota accent.
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Good Poster
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9:06a, 3/10/21
AG
How can we get Steven Avery on the jury?
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thirdcoast
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 9:08a, 3/10/21
AG
BMX Bandit said:
thirdcoast said:
You are right.

I'm questioning people here like BMX with weak arguments that an autopsy would show damage of oxygen supply to brain being cut off for a few minutes.
stop making things up.


Why are you refusing to answer?

Do you believe someone can be choked to death without showing bodily damage in an autopsy?

So far you have claimed I'm ridiculous for referencing professional athletes choked unconscious on TV with no bodily damage.

So predictable..here comes another post avoiding the question with deflection.
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A is A
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9:09a, 3/10/21
AG
https://www.courttv.com/

bumping the link for those (like me) that are following for the first time but not sure where the link was.
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A is A
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In reply to aggiehawg • 9:10a, 3/10/21
AG
aggiehawg said:
Juror #20 is up. Male, sounds late 30s maybe early 40s. Minnesota accent.
willing to skip wedding for jury duty
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to thirdcoast • 9:11a, 3/10/21
aggiehawg answered it.

you keep brining up examples of MMA that didn't cause a person to die. and keep bringing up facts that didnt occur in this case.

if he had a knee on his neck that cut off his blood for as long as you claim, one would expect to see physical evidence of that. i'm sorry you dont' get it
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aggiehawg
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In reply to thirdcoast • 9:12a, 3/10/21
AG
Quote:
Do you believe someone can be choked to death without showing bodily damage in an autopsy?
Highly unlikely. The body doesn't respond that way. Petechiae among other things. I assuming you are using the word "choked" to mean strangulation, or force applied to the neck and not a hot dog caught in someone's throat.
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Tex100
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In reply to 2PacShakur • 9:13a, 3/10/21
AG
2PacShakur said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.
That's cause choking to death wasn't the manner of death, homicide was.
How did they murder him?
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AgResearch
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In reply to 2PacShakur • 9:14a, 3/10/21
AG
2PacShakur said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.
That's cause choking to death wasn't the manner of death, homicide was.

Drug overdose and/or drug related heart failure is not homicide.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to A is A • 9:14a, 3/10/21
AG
A is A said:
aggiehawg said:
Juror #20 is up. Male, sounds late 30s maybe early 40s. Minnesota accent.
willing to skip wedding for jury duty
But then he clarified that he wasn't able to speak as to his fiancee's view on that.
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BQ_90
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9:15a, 3/10/21
AG
can we keep this thread to what is actually going on in court please, if you want to argue the other stuff start another thread.

Or start a thread with a title of Court Proceedings so we can keep the discussion limited to what is actually going on in court.
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2PacShakur
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In reply to aggiehawg • 9:17a, 3/10/21
AG
aggiehawg said:
The ME's 302 even stated that Floyd's physical exertions before the neck restraint was even applied were more instrumental in causing the cardiopulmonary arrest given Floyd's preexisting medical conditions (75% blocked artery for one thing) and level of intoxication from his voluntary ingestion of illegal drugs.
Mind pointing this out? I don't think he specifically identified the physical exertion as the source for his cardiopulmonary arrest, but as part of the conditions building towards it.
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thirdcoast
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 9:18a, 3/10/21
AG
BMX Bandit said:
aggiehawg answered it.

you keep brining up examples of MMA that didn't cause a person to die. and keep bringing up facts that didnt occur in this case.

if he had a knee on his neck that cut off his blood for as long as you claim, one would expect to see physical evidence of that. i'm sorry you dont' get it


I get that I can predict you not answering a simple question.

Forget the word "MMA" or "UFC"....tons of professional athletes in better shape than you or I have ever been, frequently get choked unconscious with DEADLY force (probably more force than on Floyd) and have no signs or physical evidence of chocking, other than the video. Now I know why it bothers you so much for me to bring this up. It's such a simple common sense example. If you can marginalize it away by implying I'm a MMA fanboy, you can try to make the logic go away.

So what damage would you expect to see exactly? Another question you have never answered.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to 2PacShakur • 9:20a, 3/10/21
AG
2PacShakur said:
aggiehawg said:
The ME's 302 even stated that Floyd's physical exertions before the neck restraint was even applied were more instrumental in causing the cardiopulmonary arrest given Floyd's preexisting medical conditions (75% blocked artery for one thing) and level of intoxication from his voluntary ingestion of illegal drugs.
Mind pointing this out? I don't think he specifically identified the physical exertion as the source for his cardiopulmonary arrest, but as part of the conditions building towards it.
Sure. My OP in starting this thread discusses the 302 and the prosecution's tardiness in divulging it to the defense.
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2PacShakur
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In reply to AgResearch • 9:21a, 3/10/21
AG
AgResearch said:
2PacShakur said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.
That's cause choking to death wasn't the manner of death, homicide was.

Drug overdose and/or drug related heart failure is not homicide.
Again, Floyd did not die due to drug overdose and/or drug related heart failure. That was not the cause of his death.
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A is A
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In reply to aggiehawg • 9:21a, 3/10/21
AG
a good snicker by the courtroom on that comment.
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Tex100
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In reply to 2PacShakur • 9:22a, 3/10/21
AG
2PacShakur said:
AgResearch said:
2PacShakur said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
Do you believe that choking causes enough bodily damage to be cause of death in an autopsy?
Of course it can. But there was no physical evidence that Floyd was choked to death.
That's cause choking to death wasn't the manner of death, homicide was.

Drug overdose and/or drug related heart failure is not homicide.
Again, Floyd did not die due to drug overdose and/or drug related heart failure. That was not the cause of his death.
what was the cause of death?
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