I've said from the beginning that I don't think they can get a fair trial in Hennepin County. If Chauvin's lawyers ask the right questions, I think there's a good chance that the court is forced to accept this fact after attempting, for a while, to seat a jury. It's not terribly unusual to see this happen, where the court tries to seat a jury but realizes, after some voir dire, that it's not going to happen.
George Floyd case-latest developments
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Last: 3 yr ago by Bondag
Legitimate question.Fightin TX Aggie said:
What Biden won't say if the jury fails to convict: "We must respect the jury. Jurors are the greatest strength of our legal system."
But interesting ethical question:
If you're on the jury and you think the cops were abusive a-holes but didn't actually cause Floyd's death, would you convict anyway to avoid massive rioting?
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
Want to know how I know Ellison is a democrat?Quote:
I want to lick [sic] this down by Wednesday, June 17
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
What President Biden will say is whatever his handlers tell him to say, as he reads from the teleprompter.Fightin TX Aggie said:
What Biden won't say if the jury fails to convict: "We must respect the jury. Jurors are the greatest strength of our legal system."
But interesting ethical question:
If you're on the jury and you think the cops were abusive a-holes but didn't actually cause Floyd's death, would you convict anyway to avoid massive rioting?
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
My understanding is that most of the outside attorneys are working pro bono. But their services aside, the amount of money for the preparations taken for this trial are not small change.nortex97 said:
It's always sad to watch the legal sausage being made.
This is a vast sum to spend on a defendant who, to anyone who has paid attention to the facts, is innocent of the ludicrous charges brought by the state against him. He followed procedure. He called for, and requested follow up/priority to get medical assistance on site. Hardly a murderer.
It's also a bit tragic to consider what those funds could have done for real victims of violent crimes in Minn. But instead they are going to high power attorneys to target an innocent man to promote a false racial political narrative.
If twk is correct and ultimately the judge can't sit an impartial jury and has to grant the change of venue, any county to which the trial is removed will bear the cost of similar precautions.
Sounds like an abuse of taxpayer money to reward his friends. But I am old and cynical.aggiehawg said:
AG Ellison has called in reinforcements...of the legal kind.LinkQuote:
Ellison's office employs more than 130 attorneys. Despite the huge staff of attorney at his disposal, Ellison has called in reinforcements to assist them.
This past June Ellison announced the appointment of four outside attorneys in private practice or serving as corporate counsel as special assistants on the case (press release here). The special assistants include Steve Schleicher of Maslon LLP, Jerry Blackwell of Blackwell Burke, both of Minneapolis, and Lola Velzquez-Aguilu, lead counsel for brain modulation at Medtronic in Fridley.
The fourth outside attorney is the star of the group: former Obama administration acting Solicitor General Neal Katyal, now in private practice at Hogan Lovells in Washington, D.C.
Curious about the arrangements for their appointment, I filed a Data Practices Act request with Ellison's office seeking the relevant documents. Deputy Attorney General David Voigt produced a set of repetitive and partly redacted documents in response to my request under cover of a letter dated December 1, 2020.
In his (partly redacted) June 12 memo naming the attorneys he wanted deputized, Ellison wrote that "in terms of our trial team (redacted), I propose we include a team that brings us the best of all our strengths.I want to lick [sic] this down by Wednesday, June 17." Naming the first three attorneys above, Ellison rendered Schleicher's name as "Schlisher." He touted Lola Velasquez-Aguilu's experience as "former federal prosecutors [sic], good trial lawyer, former federal prosecutor." He had a lot on his mind.
Heavily redacted notes of a June 17 office meeting reflect that Ellison wanted "a pool of trial lawyers with diverse skills" and that Ellison's proposed pool of outside attorneys was "diverse."
Katyal came later and, of the four special assistants featured in Ellison's press release, only Katyal has been visible so far. As of this month Hogan Lovells associate attorneys Harrison Gray Kilgore and Victoria Joseph have been granted leave to appear on behalf of the state in the case as well.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
I think most are pro bono.
Frankly, I don't think I would trust any of the potential jurors to tell the truth during questioning.twk said:
I've said from the beginning that I don't think they can get a fair trial in Hennepin County. If Chauvin's lawyers ask the right questions, I think there's a good chance that the court is forced to accept this fact after attempting, for a while, to seat a jury. It's not terribly unusual to see this happen, where the court tries to seat a jury but realizes, after some voir dire, that it's not going to happen.
I would think that they either 1) don't want to be on the jury and will say whatever is necessary to get out of it (an American tradition since the founding) or 2) (and this is obviously the real problem) will want to be on the jury so they can "render justice" and will lie to make that happen.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
My bad, I jumped to a cynical old man's view point.aggiehawg said:
I think most are pro bono.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
If I were selected for jury duty on this I'd like out just to avoid all the death threats and harassment that would come along with anything but a guilty verdict. Those people's names will be leaked somehow and there will be a criminal element on the left wanting revenge.
So based on that medical examiner report, Floyd died due to drugs, his own poor health, and excitement of the arrest which was only exciting because he was high and resisted.
The pics look like a demilitarized zone. They are planning for a war and rightly so. The rioters will raze Minneapolis and probably a bunch of other cities to the ground if these officers get off (or get way reduced punishments).
The pics look like a demilitarized zone. They are planning for a war and rightly so. The rioters will raze Minneapolis and probably a bunch of other cities to the ground if these officers get off (or get way reduced punishments).
zoneag said:
None of the facts and evidence are going to matter. Democrats are going to riot nationwide again.
Hopefully in liberal cities.
probably why there are still fences up and National Guard troops in Washington DC.Cassius said:zoneag said:
None of the facts and evidence are going to matter. Democrats are going to riot nationwide again.
Hopefully in liberal cities.
Based on that 302 report, I don't know how an impartial jury could convict.
Is there anyway to "short" a city?
Is there anyway to "short" a city?
Find property insurers that are heavily concentrated in the Twin Cities and short their stock?GeorgiAg said:
Based on that 302 report, I don't know how an impartial jury could convict.
Is there anyway to "short" a city?
Will rioters take a charter buses from Portland or will Soros go VY and charter a couple of southwest 737s?
pagerman @ work said:Frankly, I don't think I would trust any of the potential jurors to tell the truth during questioning.twk said:
I've said from the beginning that I don't think they can get a fair trial in Hennepin County. If Chauvin's lawyers ask the right questions, I think there's a good chance that the court is forced to accept this fact after attempting, for a while, to seat a jury. It's not terribly unusual to see this happen, where the court tries to seat a jury but realizes, after some voir dire, that it's not going to happen.
I would think that they either 1) don't want to be on the jury and will say whatever is necessary to get out of it (an American tradition since the founding) or 2) (and this is obviously the real problem) will want to be on the jury so they can "render justice" and will lie to make that happen.
And guess which side of the political isles fall on category 2? I'm sure this will be a fair trial
Since when did liberals care, as long as they're mostly peaceful riots rightGeorgiAg said:
Based on that 302 report, I don't know how an impartial jury could convict.
Is there anyway to "short" a city?
I agree with the Spectator article. He can't get a fair trial there.Mayor West said:pagerman @ work said:Frankly, I don't think I would trust any of the potential jurors to tell the truth during questioning.twk said:
I've said from the beginning that I don't think they can get a fair trial in Hennepin County. If Chauvin's lawyers ask the right questions, I think there's a good chance that the court is forced to accept this fact after attempting, for a while, to seat a jury. It's not terribly unusual to see this happen, where the court tries to seat a jury but realizes, after some voir dire, that it's not going to happen.
I would think that they either 1) don't want to be on the jury and will say whatever is necessary to get out of it (an American tradition since the founding) or 2) (and this is obviously the real problem) will want to be on the jury so they can "render justice" and will lie to make that happen.
And guess which side of the political isles fall on category 2? I'm sure this will be a fair trial
You'd have to worry about you and your family's safety if you deliver a not guilty verdict.
And even if they did convict, would the judge throw out the verdict? Become the heat sink?GeorgiAg said:
Based on that 302 report, I don't know how an impartial jury could convict.
Is there anyway to "short" a city?
The but/for question is pretty damn important for manner of death determination. If the ME can't say that and Dr, Baden's autopsy conclusions were done before he received the tox report and the tissue sample analysis, his testimony can't bolster the medical evidence for the prosecution, either. That's a huge hole in the prosecution's case.
I think the only way out of this mess is for the City of Minneapolis to assist Chauvin in escaping prison and set him up with a new identity in a new country. Is Raymond Reddington available? This option would be way cheaper than the mess they will have to clean up when the city burns following acquittal. Seems justified as well, based on the evidence I have read.
I would HATE to be the prosecution now. You are right that is a HUGE hole. The evidence not only establishes reasonable doubt that he died from Chauvin's actions, but it also pretty clearly shows the cause of death was Fentanyl. The prosecution is upside down on the evidence.aggiehawg said:And even if they did convict, would the judge throw out the verdict? Become the heat sink?GeorgiAg said:
Based on that 302 report, I don't know how an impartial jury could convict.
Is there anyway to "short" a city?
The but/for question is pretty damn important for manner of death determination. If the ME can't say that and Dr, Baden's autopsy conclusions were done before he received the tox report and the tissue sample analysis, his testimony can't bolster the medical evidence for the prosecution, either. That's a huge hole in the prosecution's case.
The trial judge might chicken out and kick it to the appellate courts. That would be months/years down the road. But that's not justice for Chauvin.
12 person jury there? All it takes is one holdout to prevent a conviction, but that could also cause a hung jury and retrial.
Fightin TX Aggie said:
Q: Will the lefty media do ANYTHING to inform and prepare the country that the evidence might not support the charges??
A: No. They're afraid to even question the narrative of obvious guilt.
I was about to say something along those lines. This is how irresponsible, biased, and pre-programmed the MSM is in our society.
They have assiduously avoided poking holes in the prevailing narrative despite the clear facts to the contrary. And they allowed the narrative to continue relatively unchallenged even though it contributed to the ongoing racial tension and violence, and knowing that it was the only way to prevent another round of massive rioting.
The modern media is worse than worthless, and the cascading impact of their malfeasance is incredibly damaging to our society and culture.
I think that the Dems/Libs do not want a fair trial and will insist on a conviction despite the evidence. There will be enormous pressure on the jury to convict no matter what.
If the jury does not convict, then the Dems/Libs will demand substantial changes to the justice system to prevent "Racist Cops" or possibly "White Men" from getting away with murder again. It would not surprise me that the Libs/Dems will try to really turn the Justice System into a farce that targets certain people for their perceived privilege or to address historical bias/racism in society. The Dems/Libs will twist this to make the Justice System appear to be racist and deeply flawed.
Either way there will be riots.
If the jury does not convict, then the Dems/Libs will demand substantial changes to the justice system to prevent "Racist Cops" or possibly "White Men" from getting away with murder again. It would not surprise me that the Libs/Dems will try to really turn the Justice System into a farce that targets certain people for their perceived privilege or to address historical bias/racism in society. The Dems/Libs will twist this to make the Justice System appear to be racist and deeply flawed.
Either way there will be riots.
Facts don't really matter any more, its all about feeding the outrage,
If a hung jury, seriously doubt there would be a retrial. Putting that case on ice for awhile won't make it stink any less.Quote:
12 person jury there? All it takes is one holdout to prevent a conviction, but that could also cause a hung jury and retrial.
As for the remaining officers, if Chauvin is acquitted or a verdict of guiltt is thrown out by the judge, likely their cases are dismissed (before the same judge) since their charges are derivative from his actions.
But if a mistrial is declared due to a hung jury? Not sure what the judge will do about their trials. He made the correct decision is severing the trials, though. One that directly affected their respective defense strategies. A hung jury could also affect the defense strategy if their trials are still held.
Is someone inciting riots?
Does Minnesota have police or were they defunded? 'Cause that place is gonna burn...
Reminds me of all of the crap surrounding the Trayvon Martin trial. The media was shameless on that one too. Had the trial not been televised gavel to gavel, there would have been riots after Zimmerman's acquittal. Greta Von Susteren did an excellent job in breaking down the trial as it was ongoing, so that people watching who were not lawyers could understand how thin the prosecution's case really was. Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara was pretty damn good too.DTP02 said:Fightin TX Aggie said:
Q: Will the lefty media do ANYTHING to inform and prepare the country that the evidence might not support the charges??
A: No. They're afraid to even question the narrative of obvious guilt.
I was about to say something along those lines. This is how irresponsible, biased, and pre-programmed the MSM is in our society.
They have assiduously avoided poking holes in the prevailing narrative despite the clear facts to the contrary. And they allowed the narrative to continue relatively unchallenged even though it contributed to the ongoing racial tension and violence, and knowing that it was the only way to prevent another round of massive rioting.
The modern media is worse than worthless, and the cascading impact of their malfeasance is incredibly damaging to our society and culture.
but the snippets that make the news will be altered in a way to make the cops guilty no matter the evidence.aggiehawg said:Reminds me of all of the crap surrounding the Trayvon Martin trial. The media was shameless on that one too. Had the trial not been televised gavel to gavel, there would have been riots after Zimmerman's acquittal. Greta Von Susteren did an excellent job in breaking down the trial as it was ongoing, so that people watching who were not lawyers could understand how thin the prosecution's case really was. Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara was pretty damn good too.DTP02 said:Fightin TX Aggie said:
Q: Will the lefty media do ANYTHING to inform and prepare the country that the evidence might not support the charges??
A: No. They're afraid to even question the narrative of obvious guilt.
I was about to say something along those lines. This is how irresponsible, biased, and pre-programmed the MSM is in our society.
They have assiduously avoided poking holes in the prevailing narrative despite the clear facts to the contrary. And they allowed the narrative to continue relatively unchallenged even though it contributed to the ongoing racial tension and violence, and knowing that it was the only way to prevent another round of massive rioting.
The modern media is worse than worthless, and the cascading impact of their malfeasance is incredibly damaging to our society and culture.
again, the threats of riots will be floated by the left as soon as the jury selection begins. No way they find a unbiased jury.
I can tell no one actually read the 302 as the ME examiner never actually said fentanyl was a result of the pulmonary edema and the edema could have resulted from CPR performed on him (p. 6 of 7). Additionally, fentanyl can cause edema in the trachea, but it was *not* found there either (E: I forgot to add "not" in that sentence.) Even in the report the ME said he would have to consult with a toxicologist and/or cardiologist to conclude if it would be significant. Fentanyl's half-life is 7 hours, and the ME said that he had no idea if any of it was ingested within a reasonable time frame to affect the victim.
The ME did rule it a homicide. Also, surprised to find out George Floyd lived surprisingly close to me.
The ME did rule it a homicide. Also, surprised to find out George Floyd lived surprisingly close to me.
GeorgiAg said:
Based on that 302 report, I don't know how an impartial jury could convict.
Is there anyway to "short" a city?
You can short Target (TGT)?
Troutslime said:
Is someone inciting riots?
NB4 Court TV decides to take strategic breaks in coverage during testimony that is particularly damning for the prosecution or helpful to the defense.ABATTBQ87 said:
Court TV, the only network devoted to live, gavel-to-gavel coverage, in-depth legal reporting and expert analysis of the nation's most important and compelling trials, will begin its extensive coverage of the murder trial involving the death of George Floyd on Monday, March 8th, the day jury selection begins.
Court TV will be the only network to cover the proceedings live and in their entirety every day from 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. ET.
You can watch Court TV free on streaming devices from Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, Android TV, and Vizio smart TVs. Court TV is also available on streaming services from YouTube TV, Pluto TV, FreeCast, XUMO, Select TV, KlowdTV, NKT.tv, Redbox, and Local Now.
Finally, you can watch on CourtTV.com and on Court TV's iOS and Android apps.
Paper. An insane deer. Taco meat.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the mob go after jurors, prosecutors and anyone involved for that matter.
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