***** THE ACOLYTE Show Discussion (see note inside) Thread *****

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redline248
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10:42a, 6/26/24
AG
I go back to the way the Sith operate, at least that we know. Their whole mission is to destroy the Jedi, so part of that has to be training relentlessly to fight and defeat Jedi. Jedi train to fight, but probably not as much, and especially not to fight Sith, who they think are gone. The younger Jedi might not even know that much about them, at this point.

I think a big question, which hasn't really been discussed, is how Qimir goes from hung in a tree, to somehow getting to Kelnacca before Mae and kills him. He's obviously got some quickness, but that still seems like a bit of a plot advancement for the sake of it.
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veryfuller
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 10:46a, 6/26/24
Staff
AG
I mean I agree generally, but something like that hasn't been in any Star Wars shows/movies. So although I'm not an expanded universe junkie, I've seen most everything. To add something like that to the world without even a hint of an explanation is just confusing. Its in the same vein as force healing, IMO.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to veryfuller • 10:46a, 6/26/24
AG
Quote:
You compare this show to something like House of the Dragon, which isn't even A level TV
What do you consider A-level TV?

92% critics score, 90% audience score on RT for S2, $200M budget, biggest viewership of the year on Max...
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Red Five
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In reply to redline248 • 10:47a, 6/26/24
AG
redline248 said:
I go back to the way the Sith operate, at least that we know. Their whole mission is to destroy the Jedi, so part of that has to be training relentlessly to fight and defeat Jedi. Jedi train to fight, but probably not as much, and especially not to fight Sith, who they think are gone. The younger Jedi might not even know that much about them, at this point.

I think a big question, which hasn't really been discussed, is how Qimir goes from hung in a tree, to somehow getting to Kelnacca before Mae and kills him. He's obviously got some quickness, but that still seems like a bit of a plot advancement for the sake of it.
He killed Kelnacca before getting hung in the tree. He went off to find water which is the time Mae spent having her revelation about giving up on her master and the set up the trap to catch Qimir. At least that is my assumption.
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veryfuller
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 10:53a, 6/26/24
Staff
AG
For SciFi or Fantasy?

I'd say Severance, Andor, GoT (minus season 7 & 8), Watchmen. I think Stranger Things is close up there. Lost and BSG are up there -- although they have their issues as well.

I think House of the Dragons is good, but the pacing of season 1 made it hard to get into, and the 2 year gap didn't help. But season 2 has been pretty great so far, IMO. My point was in not trying to grab onto a show that is top tier and compare it, but something that is doing storytelling on a different scale with a similar budget.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to veryfuller • 10:57a, 6/26/24
AG
As fantastic as Andor was (by far the best Star Wars show), I still can't wrap my head around why they can't get a single Star Wars show to look as good as any HBO show.

The production value on GoT, HotD, or even non-genre shows on HBO is just night and day to me when compared to Disney+.

Granted, Andor has by far the most real locations, so that is a huge plus is in its favor.

But then anytime they're in a town, or indoors, it's just so clear that they're on a set. I never get that feeling on HotD.

(I will say the Narkina prison set was the coolest set they've ever had in all the Disney+ shows though.)

But writing and acting wise, I'd definitely agree with Andor being on that A-tier alongside HotD.
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redline248
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In reply to Red Five • 11:02a, 6/26/24
AG
Red Five said:
redline248 said:
I go back to the way the Sith operate, at least that we know. Their whole mission is to destroy the Jedi, so part of that has to be training relentlessly to fight and defeat Jedi. Jedi train to fight, but probably not as much, and especially not to fight Sith, who they think are gone. The younger Jedi might not even know that much about them, at this point.

I think a big question, which hasn't really been discussed, is how Qimir goes from hung in a tree, to somehow getting to Kelnacca before Mae and kills him. He's obviously got some quickness, but that still seems like a bit of a plot advancement for the sake of it.
He killed Kelnacca before getting hung in the tree. He went off to find water which is the time Mae spent having her revelation about giving up on her master and the set up the trap to catch Qimir. At least that is my assumption.
I didn't remember them separating. My only argument against it being then is wouldn't he still want Mae to kill Kelnacca? Did he suspect she would give up?
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veryfuller
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:05a, 6/26/24
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AG
Its shooting on location that makes it. They shoot GoT and HotD on location generally. Anytime they are outside, they are really outside.

Star Wars went the way of the volume, and The Acolyte (outside of Andor) has had a good amount of real locations, but its only made it more obvious when they are on a set. Like when they are walking to the jungle, they are outside, the jungle, clearly a soundstage.

But that begs the question, why is it so hard for Star Wars shows to put their budgets on screen. These are MASSIVE budgets, and every other streamer with comparable budgets is putting out a much superior product.
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redline248
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:06a, 6/26/24
AG
Quote:
But then anytime they're in a town, or indoors, it's just so clear that they're on a set. I never get that feeling on HotD.
I think I will disagree with this. There were times on Game of Thrones, in particular, that it felt small. The scenes at Winterfell probably stand out the most. The courtyard area never seemed like it was fitting of a castle of Winterfell's renown. The Red Keep had a small set feel in some scenes.

Specific to House of the Dragon, I would probably look back at the place where the Velaryion house was.

Dragonstone doesn't feel the same to me, and The Wall didn't really either.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to redline248 • 11:08a, 6/26/24
AG
If you're talking the first couple seasons of GOT, I agree. They really stepped their game up after that though.
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redline248
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:10a, 6/26/24
AG
For sure
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to veryfuller • 11:10a, 6/26/24
AG
That's my biggest question too. It blows my mind Acolyte and HotD have similar budgets. And especially considering HotD has a LOT more main actors to pay.
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Red Five
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In reply to redline248 • 11:13a, 6/26/24
AG
redline248 said:
Red Five said:
redline248 said:
I go back to the way the Sith operate, at least that we know. Their whole mission is to destroy the Jedi, so part of that has to be training relentlessly to fight and defeat Jedi. Jedi train to fight, but probably not as much, and especially not to fight Sith, who they think are gone. The younger Jedi might not even know that much about them, at this point.

I think a big question, which hasn't really been discussed, is how Qimir goes from hung in a tree, to somehow getting to Kelnacca before Mae and kills him. He's obviously got some quickness, but that still seems like a bit of a plot advancement for the sake of it.
He killed Kelnacca before getting hung in the tree. He went off to find water which is the time Mae spent having her revelation about giving up on her master and the set up the trap to catch Qimir. At least that is my assumption.
I didn't remember them separating. My only argument against it being then is wouldn't he still want Mae to kill Kelnacca? Did he suspect she would give up?
I think he had to know at that point she was going to betray him. She didn't know who he was, so there is no reason she would have kept her thoughts guarded or anything. She may not have been able to anyway, since he appears to have a proficiency for getting in people's heads.

I still don't love the time line of events even if that is the case though.
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veryfuller
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:13a, 6/26/24
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AG
And its episodes are double the length! It doesn't make sense.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 11:27a, 6/26/24
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Ah. Never saw that show.


You're missing out


I binged watched 17 episodes in a day once. Ted danson steals every scene.
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Red Five
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 11:37a, 6/26/24
AG
The Porkchop Express said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Ah. Never saw that show.


You're missing out


I binged watched 17 episodes in a day once. Ted danson steals every scene.
I don't think I ever laughed harder at anything than I did watching Michael torture Chidi with the trolley problem.
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Redstone
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12:53p, 6/26/24
AG
Power of One was my favorite moment from the show, but now I'm really digging this move

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The Porkchop Express
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12:55p, 6/26/24
AG
Brian you need to add a Calendly link to your sig so people can line up to argue/fight you about how good house of the dragon is.
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concac
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In reply to Redstone • 1:00p, 6/26/24
AG
Redstone said:
Power of One was my favorite moment from the show, but now I'm really digging this move

Michael Jackson would have bad flashbacks if he saw that.
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Ag Since 83
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1:18p, 6/26/24
AG
I feel like this somehow lines up with Darth Bortles's POV

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The Porkchop Express
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1:20p, 6/26/24
AG
Does anyone know the budget of a TV series works or what anything approximately costs? We seem to all have opinions, but I couldn't tell you much any single thing costs.

There is at least this for HoTD - Spain gives them a 70% tax redution for filming the Dragonstone scenes there.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshwilson/2022/11/20/spain-promotes-new-up-to-70-tax-incentive-for-foreign-and-national-productions/#:~:text=The%20record%20tax%20break%20comes,did%20in%20Game%20of%20Thrones.
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MASAXET
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2:13p, 6/26/24
AG
Finally watched it. I thought that episode was awesome. And really impressed with Manny Jacinto - he really surprised me with how well he did as the sith bad.
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TCTTS
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2:53p, 6/26/24
AG
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TCTTS
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2:53p, 6/26/24
AG
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TCTTS
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2:54p, 6/26/24
AG
^ Not saying I believe either theory, just throwing them out there.
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redline248
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3:04p, 6/26/24
AG
The way Qimir said that line was interesting, but I'll say this about that last tweet. The Sith of the Bane to Palpatine line are at least somewhat different than the prior Sith. Could be a "what you think you know about me is not even close to what I really am" kind of point of view.

I'm not sure, at the end of the day, that it really matters much. Kind of like how Kylo doesn't think he's a Sith, but he's basically doing everything in the same tradition of the Sith. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
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MASAXET
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In reply to TCTTS • 3:12p, 6/26/24
AG
TCTTS said:
I kind of like this theory. Or at least that he's something other than sith. I'd love to continue to expand the universe of force users beyond jedi/sith.
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Ag Since 83
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3:34p, 6/26/24
AG
If this is a Knights of Ren origin story, credit to them for finally exploring one of Episode VII's mysteries....checks notes...8.5 years later
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redline248
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In reply to Ag Since 83 • 3:47p, 6/26/24
AG
Ah, but you see, they want you to read the comics! Which is where Luke and Ben first meet the knights, I think.
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Ag Since 83
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In reply to redline248 • 4:03p, 6/26/24
AG
I think I might have actually read that one, or at least seen a page or two of it. I can't remember. It's a deep cut though.
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redline248
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In reply to Ag Since 83 • 4:12p, 6/26/24
AG
Someone posted it on the main SW thread a couple years ago. That's why I know about it
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Ag Since 83
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In reply to redline248 • 4:18p, 6/26/24
AG
That must be where I saw it.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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4:38p, 6/26/24
AG
Watching a couple reaction vids. Somehow with all the lightsaber action I missed the flying dropkick from Jecki the second Mae runs out of the wookiee's hut. Both awesome and hilarious.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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5:09p, 6/26/24
AG
Even if this dude is connected to the Knights of Ren (and it would be kinda cool to get some kinda origin story / background on them as opposed to literally ****all), they were still technically Sith since they're all following a Sith leader. I mean Kylo's minions may be unimportant underlings who aren't considered Sith, but Kylo was.
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The Porkchop Express
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6:01p, 6/26/24
AG
The Knights of Ren are definitely not Sith.
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