I completely forgot about this show, was watching it every week, then just stopped. Didn't make a conscious decision to stop, it was just so uninteresting it slipped from memory. I might read a synopsis of what happened in the episodes I haven't seen, and I might not. Really don't care either way.
***** THE ACOLYTE Show Discussion (see note inside) Thread *****
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Last: 1 mo ago by Sea Speed
But, but Russian DollCheeseSndwch said:
The power of one…season!
No matter how hard you continue to try, this will never be the own you think it is. Headland made a hit show (Russian Doll), objectively so, by every conceivable measure that matters. To then expect her to continue that trend wasn't remotely wrong, weird, controversial, or out of the ordinary. It's literally how the industry works. You make something good, you get to continue trying, usually on a bigger scale than the last time. Sometimes you keep the streak going, proving your talent and worth, sometimes you don't, and you fall flat on your face. Both happen all the time.
So, what does that have to do with Star Wars? Or making a Sci-fi action series? Or anything else remotely close to this assignment?TCTTS said:
No matter how hard you continue to try, this will never be the own you think it is. Headland made a hit show (Russian Doll), objectively so, by every conceivable measure that matters.
People aren't genres. A good storyteller should be able to tell a good story, no matter the genre. Tony Gilroy hadn't made a single space/sci-fi thing prior to Rogue One/Andor, and look what he did. Why weren't y'all raising this kind of fuss when *he* was hired? Again, it's a crap shoot more often than not. That said, Russian Doll had a huge fantasy (if not borderline sci-fi) element. That, and everyone in town was salivating to work with Headland, based on her success. At that point, to not let her take her moon shot would have been malpractice. Turns out, she blew it. It happens.
I hear what you're saying and mostly agree. But it's kind of like head coaches in a way. He took lowly Houston to 11-1 and he really "gets" A&M. This should transfer to success. Hey, he won a natty at FSU just think what he can do at A&M with our resources, deep pockets, alumni and fan base. Sound familiar?
Where I depart from this logic, if I'm the exec making the call, is that Sumlin and Jimbo completely came up in, were completely immersed in, the world they were expected to exceed in. Big time college football.
I know little and less about Headland and don't care. But to draw the comparison, I'd say it looks like she was good at "sports" but no reason to believe good at "big time college football". If that makes sense.
Sure, it's a risk and big business and investing is full of risk. But I wouldn't hire a successful soccer coach to lead a D1 football program.
Beating my dead horse again, you need someone that is going to attract young males to Star Wars for it be really successful. Is what it is. She wasn't it. Who would have thought she would be it? But if Disney didn't care about "it" so be it. I couldn't care less.
Where I depart from this logic, if I'm the exec making the call, is that Sumlin and Jimbo completely came up in, were completely immersed in, the world they were expected to exceed in. Big time college football.
I know little and less about Headland and don't care. But to draw the comparison, I'd say it looks like she was good at "sports" but no reason to believe good at "big time college football". If that makes sense.
Sure, it's a risk and big business and investing is full of risk. But I wouldn't hire a successful soccer coach to lead a D1 football program.
Beating my dead horse again, you need someone that is going to attract young males to Star Wars for it be really successful. Is what it is. She wasn't it. Who would have thought she would be it? But if Disney didn't care about "it" so be it. I couldn't care less.
This is a fair point, and an argument that makes sense on the surface. But all things considered, at the time, I understand the choice, considering the show they were looking to make. A LOT has changed since then, and hindsight is of course 20/20, but I at least see the vision, given the context/situation four+ years ago.
Also, as I've mentioned multiple times before, Lucasfilm could be just as much to blame as Headlund for this turd we eventually got. Granted, much of the dialogue likely would have been bad regardless, but there's a high probability that Lucasfilm's development process stripped this thing of a lot of what potentially made it much more interesting in the pitch phase.
Also, as I've mentioned multiple times before, Lucasfilm could be just as much to blame as Headlund for this turd we eventually got. Granted, much of the dialogue likely would have been bad regardless, but there's a high probability that Lucasfilm's development process stripped this thing of a lot of what potentially made it much more interesting in the pitch phase.
I was talking to some friends (who haven't seen the show) yesterday when the news came out, and I was trying to explain to them how weird this show was. I still think there was a really interesting 2 hour movie about Qimir seducing Osha that got buried inside an 8 episode season about dumb, boring characters.
They'll probably have Claudia Gray write a book to continue the story of Qimir in a year or two.
They'll probably have Claudia Gray write a book to continue the story of Qimir in a year or two.
[If you're only coming here to troll the board, think again. Ban coming your way if you persist -- Staff]
Maybe this will finally be a wake up call to Disney before they completely run arguably the greatest franchise in entertainment history into the ditch it's now half way down.
But given their recent history I strongly doubt it.
But given their recent history I strongly doubt it.
#SoBraveaTmAg said:
I haven't watched a second of this show. I just want to laugh at Disney who blew a gazillion dollars on woke crap. Serves them right.
captkirk said:So, what does that have to do with Star Wars? Or making a Sci-fi action series? Or anything else remotely close to this assignment?TCTTS said:
No matter how hard you continue to try, this will never be the own you think it is. Headland made a hit show (Russian Doll), objectively so, by every conceivable measure that matters.
It doesn't, which is why some of us were anticipating a hard flop. When this show came up as a topic of discussion back in the spring at a chill and grill with my neighbor and his son, who works at Paramount, he was worried it would be a one and done and said something about it being either insanely bold or stupid of Disney to place this expensive project in the hands of someone who isn't ready for it. I didn't watch Russian Doll because it didn't appeal to me, and maybe it was good for what it was, but that shouldn't push someone to the top of the stack when Disney LF is considering whom to entrust at a time where they really, really need to make more money and prove to a fanbase that they know what they're doing. That's why I'm not arguing that Leslye isn't good at her craft in some way, but, as has now been very clearly demonstrated, and as some of us said from the beginning, she had no business at the helm of a massive SW project.
In most other industries, the buck stops at the tip top and a long enough pattern of incompetent decisions, poor results, and squandered opportunities would see someone packing up their office. Long overdue for KK to be shown the door.
ETA: I'd have preferred to be in a position of eating crow and saying, yeah I was wrong about Leslye, she knocked this out of the park, great show. I watched from the beginning hoping I'd be wrong and it would be a cool show that most SW fans could rally behind, but episode 2 all but confirmed it was a doomed effort.
The middle episodes of the show were actually decent and somewhat interesting. The first two (the premier episodes that were released on the same day) and the last episode were god awful dreck. There was something there, but the execution was terrible.
I remember there was some concern among the fandom about Gilroy when he took over the rewrites for Rogue One. That he hadn't done anything like Star Wars before and Gilroy himself was actually pretty vocal about not being versed in Star Wars. Then we saw Rogue One and all skepticism went out the window.
With the Acolyte, I just wonder where the hell $180 million went. It's not my money, so it's no skin off my nose, but on the surface it looks like abject mismanagement.
I remember there was some concern among the fandom about Gilroy when he took over the rewrites for Rogue One. That he hadn't done anything like Star Wars before and Gilroy himself was actually pretty vocal about not being versed in Star Wars. Then we saw Rogue One and all skepticism went out the window.
With the Acolyte, I just wonder where the hell $180 million went. It's not my money, so it's no skin off my nose, but on the surface it looks like abject mismanagement.
If they haven't figured it out by now... i don't think they're going to.oragator said:
Maybe this will finally be a wake up call to Disney before they completely run arguably the greatest franchise in entertainment history into the ditch it's now half way down.
But given their recent history I strongly doubt it.
they're going to double down....NAY! Triple. Two words:
GAY. YODA.
GAY. YODA.
Wake me when they make a good decision prior to flopping.
In fairness, when he was hired, all we had had from Disney was the Force Awakens, which, while no means great, wasn't a horrible movie either. Post Rogue One, the movies have been dismal.TCTTS said:
People aren't genres. A good storyteller should be able to tell a good story, no matter the genre. Tony Gilroy hadn't made a single space/sci-fi thing prior to Rogue One/Andor, and look what he did. Why weren't y'all raising this kind of fuss when *he* was hired? Again, it's a crap shoot more often than not. That said, Russian Doll had a huge fantasy (if not borderline sci-fi) element. That, and everyone in town was salivating to work with Headland, based on her success. At that point, to not let her take her moon shot would have been malpractice. Turns out, she blew it. It happens.
Also, the shows had been hit or miss, with seasons 1 and 2 of the mandalorian being fine, but book of boba fett being an absolute steaming pile of horse *****
Andor, while being the best of the bunch by far, had almost zero buzz. It was a prequel to a prequel about a character that wasn't especially well-established
When Gilroy was hired I remember googling him and being pretty stoked once I saw that he wrote the Bourne trilogy. If that doesn't give you some confidence, I'm not sure what would. Sure, it isn't sci-fi, but the dude can clearly steer a story in the right direction and create awesome action sequences. SW isn't rocket science, no pun intended, but the person in charge needs to be competent, and have a singular agenda of creating something the greatest possible number of SW fans across generations can enjoy.
Ultimately, Lucasfilm is the problem here. They are failing quite often (especially when you consider the scripts that will never see the light of day).
They already ruined it. There is no returning.oragator said:
Maybe this will finally be a wake up call to Disney before they completely run arguably the greatest franchise in entertainment history into the ditch it's now half way down.
But given their recent history I strongly doubt it.
I know I may be one of the few, but I was interested in a season 2. The most intriguing part of the show was not the mystery in the past, but Quimir / Osha and what could be next. Presumably season 2 would have put that mystery-in-the-past component to bed and moved forward.
Ah well . . .
Ah well . . .
It's fun watching Disney fail and get the vitriol they so richly deserve!!
aTmAg said:They already ruined it. There is no returning.oragator said:
Maybe this will finally be a wake up call to Disney before they completely run arguably the greatest franchise in entertainment history into the ditch it's now half way down.
But given their recent history I strongly doubt it.
Cool, then feel free to stop paying attention or contributing to these threads.
TCTTS said:
People aren't genres. A good storyteller should be able to tell a good story, no matter the genre. Tony Gilroy hadn't made a single space/sci-fi thing prior to Rogue One/Andor, and look what he did. Why weren't y'all raising this kind of fuss when *he* was hired? Again, it's a crap shoot more often than not. That said, Russian Doll had a huge fantasy (if not borderline sci-fi) element. That, and everyone in town was salivating to work with Headland, based on her success. At that point, to not let her take her moon shot would have been malpractice. Turns out, she blew it. It happens.
Well, for one, Gilroy was brought in as a writer to fix Rogue One and direct reshoots. He wasn't just given the reigns at the outset. Considering the final product, he did a phenomenal job and earned Andor. He obviously understood the overarching story, the characters, their motivations, the rebellion... really just everything.
Gilroy also had a much longer history as a writer prior to Rogue One and Andor. A lot of his credits were for political dramas or action movies (the Bourne franchise), so his past work was pretty relevant to a movie like Rogue One and a series like Andor, where the focus is much different than the rest of the franchise and the force and Jedi are basically absent. In that sense, Star Wars is almost window dressing for the political and spy narrative being told as a part of the wider rebellion. He also had experience in making parts and pieces of a franchise and what consistency between them looked like.
He also wrote and directed Michael Clayton, getting academy award nominations for best original screenplay and best director, and The Bourne Legacy. He wasn't just the latest shiny thing in Hollywood.
Headland had a successful 2 season Netflix show that she co-created, a dozen and half, half hour episodes for various and largely unsuccessful series, and some middling, forgettable films. The Acolyte was supposed to be a part of the wider narrative in Star Wars and have that more traditional focus, and she had no real relevant experience with that. She also had no franchise experience whatsoever.
You keep falling back on Headland being super qualified for this based on one thing that she co-created and wrote/directed a few short episodes for, and that's... not a lot. That's like promoting a low level manager to Executive VP because he did well on a joint project.
Nope. It's fun to mock Disney when they fail. I'll be coming back as they look like they will never learn their lesson.FL_Ag1998 said:Cool, then feel free to stop paying attention or contributing to these threads.aTmAg said:They already ruined it. There is no returning.oragator said:
Maybe this will finally be a wake up call to Disney before they completely run arguably the greatest franchise in entertainment history into the ditch it's now half way down.
But given their recent history I strongly doubt it.
Hate to spoil your fun, but it looks like a season 2 isn't happening, which is, to me, a little shocking and evidence that Disney is in fact learning their lesson.
Now notable directors projects directly preceding their first Marvel/Star Wars project:
Jon Favreau - Elf, Zathura
Jon Watts - Clown, Cop Car
Russo Bros - Community, Happy Endings, Animal Practice
Peyton Reed - New Girl, The Goodwin Games
Bryce Dallas Howard - M83 music video, Vanity Fair: Decades, Dads
Rick Famuyiwa - The Chi, We Will Be Monsters
Jon Favreau - Elf, Zathura
Jon Watts - Clown, Cop Car
Russo Bros - Community, Happy Endings, Animal Practice
Peyton Reed - New Girl, The Goodwin Games
Bryce Dallas Howard - M83 music video, Vanity Fair: Decades, Dads
Rick Famuyiwa - The Chi, We Will Be Monsters
Great start with some more modern ones. My list went all the way back to the '90s, and included directors like Michael Bay, David Fincher, Doug Liman, the Wachowskis, Colin Terevorrow, and many, many more.
Figured I'd hit some of the recent names everyone is familiar with in this genre but for sure, it's a long similar history.TCTTS said:
Great start with some more modern ones. My list went all the way back to the '90s, and included directors like Michael Bay, David Fincher, Doug Liman, the Wachowskis, Colin Terevorrow, and many, many more.
Lots of music video directors in the 90s
Urban Ag said:
Sure, it's a risk and big business and investing is full of risk. But I wouldn't hire a successful soccer coach to lead a D1 football program..
Yeah but would you hire a successful DII football coach to lead a soccer program?
The drinker, as usual, bores a hole deep and hard into Disney BS…
Never watched an episode, I learned all I need from the critical drinker.
Max Power said:
Never watched an episode, I learned all I need from the critical drinker.
His reviews can be brutal but usually on point…especially when dumps all over "the message".
Other than behind the camera, how exactly are people saying this show was woke? Because of the two witches being the "moms" of the twins? That's honestly the only thing in the show I can remember that would even remotely qualify as making this show "woke". Was there something else?
Previews should have had a disclaimer that said "no white males were used in the filming of this series"Jim01 said:
Other than behind the camera, how exactly are people saying this show was woke? Because of the two witches being the "moms" of the twins? That's honestly the only thing in the show I can remember that would even remotely qualify as making this show "woke". Was there something else?
It still had its woke moments. But the acting, writing and casting were all so horrifically bad that it overshadowed everything else.
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