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***** THE ACOLYTE Show Discussion (see note inside) Thread *****
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Last: 10 days ago by Cinco Ranch Aggie
Did Qimir ask Sol at one point, "You don't remember me"? If so, who could he be from the past?
YNWA_AG said:
So the twins mother has to be darth smiles master? That would be so lame
Or, she was an apprentice who was used to make the twins, then Darth Bortles kills her and the rest while framing the Jedi and picks up and trains Mae in the aftermath.
That would be too clever. I honestly think he means from his shop.
BQRyno said:
That would be too clever. I honestly think he means from his shop.
Ah gotcha…I had forgotten about that.
Red Five said:
I don't think he was saying that. I think his point is, if he wants to kill, steal, enslave, etc. why shouldn't he be able to? Who are the Jedi to decide how the power of the force should be used. The Sith believe might makes right, he should be able to do those things because his power means he is superior to those that cant.
And you could argue the jedi are practicing the ultimate double standard, doing whatever they want in terms of policing the whole galaxy because they have powers that others lack.
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The fights were cool in this episode, but I still don't understand:
1) What is Mae even doing? She went from wanting to kill the Jedi, to turning herself over, to running away in the span of like 5 minutes? And then, she was like....I'll take my sister's place for....reasons...
2) Osha's decision making is also confusing. She wanted to let the Jedi find her sister without her, then was coerced to help, then wanted to confront/kill her sister, then was told to go to the ship but decided to run back and get in on the action? If this is a heroes journey for her, I still don't get it. If its her turning into a villain then I guess we will learn more from flashbacks.
3) Now we have Darth Smiles who also has motivations that we don't know yet
4) Sol also has motivations we don't know yet
And while the fights were cool, I had zero feelings about any of the deaths. I wasn't even shocked. I couldn't even tell you the names of the "major" characters who ate it. Also, I know having a lot of Jedi beat by the Sith is supposed to make the Sith look strong, it just made the Jedi look weak to me. And the light saber malfunctions just added to that.
I just keep hoping that we get some sort of information or character development that clicks things into place, but with 3 episodes left, I think we are just going to get more plot to get the characters to a place where "things" will be revealed that are ultimately disappointing.
1) What is Mae even doing? She went from wanting to kill the Jedi, to turning herself over, to running away in the span of like 5 minutes? And then, she was like....I'll take my sister's place for....reasons...
2) Osha's decision making is also confusing. She wanted to let the Jedi find her sister without her, then was coerced to help, then wanted to confront/kill her sister, then was told to go to the ship but decided to run back and get in on the action? If this is a heroes journey for her, I still don't get it. If its her turning into a villain then I guess we will learn more from flashbacks.
3) Now we have Darth Smiles who also has motivations that we don't know yet
4) Sol also has motivations we don't know yet
And while the fights were cool, I had zero feelings about any of the deaths. I wasn't even shocked. I couldn't even tell you the names of the "major" characters who ate it. Also, I know having a lot of Jedi beat by the Sith is supposed to make the Sith look strong, it just made the Jedi look weak to me. And the light saber malfunctions just added to that.
I just keep hoping that we get some sort of information or character development that clicks things into place, but with 3 episodes left, I think we are just going to get more plot to get the characters to a place where "things" will be revealed that are ultimately disappointing.
superaggie73 said:
Did Qimir ask Sol at one point, "You don't remember me"? If so, who could he be from the past?
Would not be shocked if he's the one who told the Jedi about the witches and the twins in the first place. Would fit if he was pulling strings and playing the long con all along, but it's also a huge stretch
superaggie73 said:
Did Qimir ask Sol at one point, "You don't remember me"? If so, who could he be from the past?
They met in his shop like the day before.
Osha's and Mae's motivations are a big problem for this show. They really don't make any sense. But they're women, so I guess that tracks, right?veryfuller said:
The fights were cool in this episode, but I still don't understand:
1) What is Mae even doing? She went from wanting to kill the Jedi, to turning herself over, to running away in the span of like 5 minutes? And then, she was like....I'll take my sister's place for....reasons...
2) Osha's decision making is also confusing. She wanted to let the Jedi find her sister without her, then was coerced to help, then wanted to confront/kill her sister, then was told to go to the ship but decided to run back and get in on the action? If this is a heroes journey for her, I still don't get it. If its her turning into a villain then I guess we will learn more from flashbacks.
3) Now we have Darth Smiles who also has motivations that we don't know yet
4) Sol also has motivations we don't know yet
And while the fights were cool, I had zero feelings about any of the deaths. I wasn't even shocked. I couldn't even tell you the names of the "major" characters who ate it. Also, I know having a lot of Jedi beat by the Sith is supposed to make the Sith look strong, it just made the Jedi look weak to me. And the light saber malfunctions just added to that.
I just keep hoping that we get some sort of information or character development that clicks things into place, but with 3 episodes left, I think we are just going to get more plot to get the characters to a place where "things" will be revealed that are ultimately disappointing.
Darth Bortles says he wants an acolyte, would he be doing that as brazenly as he is if he still had a master? I think it could be possible that he was trained by one of the mothers at some point, but my guess is he would have already killed her if so.Flashdiaz said:
Osha mentions her mother could get into Jedi's minds. 3 episodes left, is mother the master Sith?
Flashdiaz said:
Osha mentions her mother could get into Jedi's minds. 3 episodes left, is mother the master Sith?
We saw this happen in the flashback, so it wasn't new info.
What is Mae even doing? She went from wanting to kill the Jedi, to turning herself over, to running away in the span of like 5 minutes? And then, she was like....I'll take my sister's place for....reasons...
She decided to turn herself in, and thought her Master couldn't find her on the planet. When he showed up, she needed to escape. What better place to escape to than Coruscant surrounded by thousands of Jedi?
2) Osha's decision making is also confusing. She wanted to let the Jedi find her sister without her, then was coerced to help, then wanted to confront/kill her sister, then was told to go to the ship but decided to run back and get in on the action? If this is a heroes journey for her, I still don't get it. If its her turning into a villain then I guess we will learn more from flashbacks.
In the last episode, they made a point of showing her feeling a connection with the bug that Sol killed. In this episode, she clearly feels something through the Force that three people she really cares about - Sol, Jecki, and her sister - are going to get killed if she doesn't go back. Her intervention directly saves 2 of their lives, at least for the time being.
And while the fights were cool, I had zero feelings about any of the deaths. I wasn't even shocked. I couldn't even tell you the names of the "major" characters who ate it. Also, I know having a lot of Jedi beat by the Sith is supposed to make the Sith look strong, it just made the Jedi look weak to me. And the light saber malfunctions just added to that.]
If you scroll back to last night, we discussed the appearance of cortosis ore, a Legends thing that has spanned 30+ years of books, video games, and comics that caused the lightsaber malfunctions. We also discussed that the Jedi ARE weak - they have no real opponents and they don't even know their purpose.
I just keep hoping that we get some sort of information or character development that clicks things into place,
I don't meant to insult you, but it's there - as discussed above and a couple of pages before this. Knowing the characters names is as simple as turning on the close captions or visiting IMDB, Wikipedia, or starwars.com.
She decided to turn herself in, and thought her Master couldn't find her on the planet. When he showed up, she needed to escape. What better place to escape to than Coruscant surrounded by thousands of Jedi?
2) Osha's decision making is also confusing. She wanted to let the Jedi find her sister without her, then was coerced to help, then wanted to confront/kill her sister, then was told to go to the ship but decided to run back and get in on the action? If this is a heroes journey for her, I still don't get it. If its her turning into a villain then I guess we will learn more from flashbacks.
In the last episode, they made a point of showing her feeling a connection with the bug that Sol killed. In this episode, she clearly feels something through the Force that three people she really cares about - Sol, Jecki, and her sister - are going to get killed if she doesn't go back. Her intervention directly saves 2 of their lives, at least for the time being.
And while the fights were cool, I had zero feelings about any of the deaths. I wasn't even shocked. I couldn't even tell you the names of the "major" characters who ate it. Also, I know having a lot of Jedi beat by the Sith is supposed to make the Sith look strong, it just made the Jedi look weak to me. And the light saber malfunctions just added to that.]
If you scroll back to last night, we discussed the appearance of cortosis ore, a Legends thing that has spanned 30+ years of books, video games, and comics that caused the lightsaber malfunctions. We also discussed that the Jedi ARE weak - they have no real opponents and they don't even know their purpose.
I just keep hoping that we get some sort of information or character development that clicks things into place,
I don't meant to insult you, but it's there - as discussed above and a couple of pages before this. Knowing the characters names is as simple as turning on the close captions or visiting IMDB, Wikipedia, or starwars.com.
ABATTBQ11 said:Red Five said:
I don't think he was saying that. I think his point is, if he wants to kill, steal, enslave, etc. why shouldn't he be able to? Who are the Jedi to decide how the power of the force should be used. The Sith believe might makes right, he should be able to do those things because his power means he is superior to those that cant.
Like Schloss, he wasn't exactly lying...
Unless he's got some serious force de-aging power, he would have been as young as Mae/Osha at that time.ABATTBQ11 said:superaggie73 said:
Did Qimir ask Sol at one point, "You don't remember me"? If so, who could he be from the past?
Would not be shocked if he's the one who told the Jedi about the witches and the twins in the first place. Would fit if he was pulling strings and playing the long con all along, but it's also a huge stretch
It's possible that he has already killed his master to replace him/her. It's also possible that he is getting ready to make the attempt to kill the master and is getting a headstart on his own replacement, or hoping the new acolyte will help him kill the master.Red Five said:Darth Bortles says he wants an acolyte, would he be doing that as brazenly as he is if he still had a master? I think it could be possible that he was trained by one of the mothers at some point, but my guess is he would have already killed her if so.Flashdiaz said:
Osha mentions her mother could get into Jedi's minds. 3 episodes left, is mother the master Sith?
It's also possible by the end of this show his master finds out what he's up to, kills him and takes Osha as the new apprentice. I don't think there's anyway this show doesn't end without Osha being a sith apprentice.
The Porkchop Express said:
What is Mae even doing? She went from wanting to kill the Jedi, to turning herself over, to running away in the span of like 5 minutes? And then, she was like....I'll take my sister's place for....reasons...
She decided to turn herself in, and thought her Master couldn't find her on the planet. When he showed up, she needed to escape. What better place to escape to than Coruscant surrounded by thousands of Jedi?
2) Osha's decision making is also confusing. She wanted to let the Jedi find her sister without her, then was coerced to help, then wanted to confront/kill her sister, then was told to go to the ship but decided to run back and get in on the action? If this is a heroes journey for her, I still don't get it. If its her turning into a villain then I guess we will learn more from flashbacks.
In the last episode, they made a point of showing her feeling a connection with the bug that Sol killed. In this episode, she clearly feels something through the Force that three people she really cares about - Sol, Jecki, and her sister - are going to get killed if she doesn't go back. Her intervention directly saves 2 of their lives, at least for the time being.
And while the fights were cool, I had zero feelings about any of the deaths. I wasn't even shocked. I couldn't even tell you the names of the "major" characters who ate it. Also, I know having a lot of Jedi beat by the Sith is supposed to make the Sith look strong, it just made the Jedi look weak to me. And the light saber malfunctions just added to that.]
If you scroll back to last night, we discussed the appearance of cortosis ore, a Legends thing that has spanned 30+ years of books, video games, and comics that caused the lightsaber malfunctions. We also discussed that the Jedi ARE weak - they have no real opponents and they don't even know their purpose.
I just keep hoping that we get some sort of information or character development that clicks things into place,
I don't meant to insult you, but it's there - as discussed above and a couple of pages before this. Knowing the characters names is as simple as turning on the close captions or visiting IMDB, Wikipedia, or starwars.com.
Exactly. And if you really don't know Jecki or Yord's names yet then you really aren't paying attention at all.
Pip is going to figure out the twin switch before Sol will.
Yeah, this brings up a good point. I was a little shocked at the deaths because Disney, but I don't really know anything about these characters and I'm not really attached to them. I'm not really attached to anyone because the first half of this was so messy. Here's to hoping the rest of it actually takes us somewhere.
redline248 said:Unless he's got some serious force de-aging power, he would have been as young as Mae/Osha at that time.ABATTBQ11 said:superaggie73 said:
Did Qimir ask Sol at one point, "You don't remember me"? If so, who could he be from the past?
Would not be shocked if he's the one who told the Jedi about the witches and the twins in the first place. Would fit if he was pulling strings and playing the long con all along, but it's also a huge stretch
Why not?
So, 3 episodes left. How many more times will Mae change her mind about what her plan is?
Can someone explain the Darth Bortles thing?
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Can someone explain the Darth Bortles thing?
The actor who plays him was on The Good Place and played a guy named Jason from Florida. He was really into Blake Bortles and would shout, "BORTLES!" like a battle cry.
So far it's once.Ag Since 83 said:
So, 3 episodes left. How many more times will Mae change her mind about what her plan is?
He figured out they weren't actually in "The Good Place" because none of the TVs had NFL Red ZoneBrian Earl Spilner said:
Can someone explain the Darth Bortles thing?
Then when Nick Foles replaced Bortles in Jacksonville, the other characters thought he would be devastated, but he was just as enthusiastic about Foles.
Ah. Never saw that show.
That was a fun episode. Definitely would have made the last one better if they had kept them as one, but whatever. Just further plays into the thought that this show would have been better as a binge instead of a weekly release.
I fall into the Darth Bortles being the apprentice looking for his own camp. Definitely think we're going to get a bigger baddie at some point.
Saw it pointed out elsewhere, but when Sol was approached by Mae disguised as Osha, he asked, "Where's your sister?" instead of giving a name, so I think it's definitely possible he knows about the switcheroo and is going with it, but could also just be coincidence.
I think more than other series, I'm very interested to rewatch this one, warts and all, to see what did get paid off (especially in terms of folks really nitpicking continuity) and what was left lingering.
I fall into the Darth Bortles being the apprentice looking for his own camp. Definitely think we're going to get a bigger baddie at some point.
Saw it pointed out elsewhere, but when Sol was approached by Mae disguised as Osha, he asked, "Where's your sister?" instead of giving a name, so I think it's definitely possible he knows about the switcheroo and is going with it, but could also just be coincidence.
I think more than other series, I'm very interested to rewatch this one, warts and all, to see what did get paid off (especially in terms of folks really nitpicking continuity) and what was left lingering.
Highly recommend remedying thatBrian Earl Spilner said:
Ah. Never saw that show.
You replied with all the same thoughts that mirror my interpretation of the show, just wanted to reply so it doesnt seem like you are the only one thinking that way.The Porkchop Express said:
What is Mae even doing? She went from wanting to kill the Jedi, to turning herself over, to running away in the span of like 5 minutes? And then, she was like....I'll take my sister's place for....reasons...
She decided to turn herself in, and thought her Master couldn't find her on the planet. When he showed up, she needed to escape. What better place to escape to than Coruscant surrounded by thousands of Jedi?
2) Osha's decision making is also confusing. She wanted to let the Jedi find her sister without her, then was coerced to help, then wanted to confront/kill her sister, then was told to go to the ship but decided to run back and get in on the action? If this is a heroes journey for her, I still don't get it. If its her turning into a villain then I guess we will learn more from flashbacks.
In the last episode, they made a point of showing her feeling a connection with the bug that Sol killed. In this episode, she clearly feels something through the Force that three people she really cares about - Sol, Jecki, and her sister - are going to get killed if she doesn't go back. Her intervention directly saves 2 of their lives, at least for the time being.
And while the fights were cool, I had zero feelings about any of the deaths. I wasn't even shocked. I couldn't even tell you the names of the "major" characters who ate it. Also, I know having a lot of Jedi beat by the Sith is supposed to make the Sith look strong, it just made the Jedi look weak to me. And the light saber malfunctions just added to that.]
If you scroll back to last night, we discussed the appearance of cortosis ore, a Legends thing that has spanned 30+ years of books, video games, and comics that caused the lightsaber malfunctions. We also discussed that the Jedi ARE weak - they have no real opponents and they don't even know their purpose.
I just keep hoping that we get some sort of information or character development that clicks things into place,
I don't meant to insult you, but it's there - as discussed above and a couple of pages before this. Knowing the characters names is as simple as turning on the close captions or visiting IMDB, Wikipedia, or starwars.com.
There are other issues with the show, like pacing, but I think all of these listed complaints are readily answered
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Ok so one question is answered if I did all my Star Wars homework. I don't mind nods to that stuff, but just a throwaway line of dialogue would be nice. They may explain that more later, it just ads to the weakness.
And maybe they are supposed to be weak, but another theme is how they are just bulldozing people for their agenda so they are both weak and powerful? There can be a storyline with that theme that would be interesting, but this story isn't doing a good job of that without some big leaps.
And I'm sorry, but even with your explanation, Mae makes no sense. The whole reason she changed her mind was because her sister being alive changed everything. Then she abandons her on the planet for dead minutes later after one hard conversation. And Osha essentially bargained that guys life for Sols. She wasn't interested in saving Mae and X23 died either way. Both characters are hard to pin down or just poorly written.
You compare this show to something like House of the Dragon, which isn't even A level TV, and you can see how many shortcuts and jumps they are taking in the Acolyte instead of really fleshing out stories around characters that make sense.
And maybe they are supposed to be weak, but another theme is how they are just bulldozing people for their agenda so they are both weak and powerful? There can be a storyline with that theme that would be interesting, but this story isn't doing a good job of that without some big leaps.
And I'm sorry, but even with your explanation, Mae makes no sense. The whole reason she changed her mind was because her sister being alive changed everything. Then she abandons her on the planet for dead minutes later after one hard conversation. And Osha essentially bargained that guys life for Sols. She wasn't interested in saving Mae and X23 died either way. Both characters are hard to pin down or just poorly written.
You compare this show to something like House of the Dragon, which isn't even A level TV, and you can see how many shortcuts and jumps they are taking in the Acolyte instead of really fleshing out stories around characters that make sense.
I like it better when things aren't explained. And the Jedi that exist in this era, at least the ones of on the mission, would have no friggin' idea what cortosis ore is because it's something the Jedi Council had kept a secret forever. One of the best parts of the show was that he was beating the **** out of them at every turn when they came in so high and mighty about everything.veryfuller said:
Ok so one question is answered if I did all my Star Wars homework. I don't mind nods to that stuff, but just a throwaway line of dialogue would be nice. They may explain that more later, it just ads to the weakness.
But I appreciate your opinions and the discussion.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Ah. Never saw that show.
You're missing out
Thinking back on the fights in the episode, I think the force grab into the shish kebob is up there with Rogue One Vader pinning the guy to the ceiling and slicing him as he walked under as the coldest kills in the SW universe.
Watched late last night and man that was some redemption for this show. If nothing else some great action sequences, and unlike some they got a reaction from me with Jecki and Yord (and appreciate the earlier explanation on the sabers shorting out).
Underrated moment: Jecki's little grin when her lightsaber flared back up and she realized she had two
My only minor nitpick, outside the already noted slightly confusing Mae motivations, was that Osha and Yord seemed to have some random pauses in their trek back to the ship to randomly give bits of exposition. At least have them need to rest and take a break or something, just felt like weirdly inserted pauses.
Don't know where it's going from here but this ep was a massive improvement.
Underrated moment: Jecki's little grin when her lightsaber flared back up and she realized she had two
My only minor nitpick, outside the already noted slightly confusing Mae motivations, was that Osha and Yord seemed to have some random pauses in their trek back to the ship to randomly give bits of exposition. At least have them need to rest and take a break or something, just felt like weirdly inserted pauses.
Don't know where it's going from here but this ep was a massive improvement.
That was an awesome shot.Red Five said:
Thinking back on the fights in the episode, I think the force grab into the shish kebob is up there with Rogue One Vader pinning the guy to the ceiling and slicing him as he walked under as the coldest kills in the SW universe.
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