*** Masters of the Air ***

101,453 Views | 786 Replies | Last: 5 mo ago by double aught
aTmAg
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TH36 said:

Not to go off topic but, what's the hate for The Pacific I've seen throughout this thread? Did any of you that don't like it read Sledges book or Leckies book? I read Sledges and thought the show lined up with what he wrote about fantastically.

This show was good in a lot of ways and great in a few but for me was still well below BoB or The Pacific. But with that being said, it's still up there in the all time great category for me simply because it was about a bunch of badasses that helped kick the Nazi's ass.
I disliked because 2 of episodes were absolutely boring and worthless: the one where they spent the whole time on leave in Australia and when Leckie spent the whole episode in the looney bin. I also didn't like the finale very much because they spent most of it at home.

To me the common thread is that these movies should eliminate love interests. They were a waste of time in both here and The Pacific. Who are they kidding. It's not like you are going to get a bunch of women to watch because of it.
schmendeler
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I remember when i thought love stories were only for girls.
Marauder Blue 6
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To me, Masters of the Air was well below Band of Brothers and The Pacific but I still enjoyed it, mostly. I ruminated on it this weekend and came to the conclusion that the years of anticipation let me down. It seems like it took forever to get to the screen from when it was first announced and that time was not well spent developing/polishing/editing the stories. I definitely feel like it should have been 2-3 episodes longer than the final product.
BassCowboy33
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Just finished. Amazing. Loved it.
aTmAg
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schmendeler said:

I remember when i thought love stories were only for girls.
Girls and gays.
CaboAg64
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My Dad died while piloting a B-17 in 1948 over France - the series was especially poignant to me - I felt the ending was especially well done!
CaboAg64
agracer
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EclipseAg said:

agracer said:

EclipseAg said:

TXAG 05 said:

Southlake said:

Hmmm. Interesting. The war against Japan was a war of eradication. We looked at the Japanese as sub humans who slaughtered the Chinese people.

Imagine if we knew earlier that the Germans were slaughtering not only Jews but also society's "unmentionables" Actually active genocide at its worst.

Yet, to this day we still hold the Germans in higher regard than the Japs.


There is also all the atrocities the Soviets committed as they made their way to Berlin. All those rapes and murders just get swept under the rug.
The book "The German War" says official estimates are that 20 percent of German women were raped by the advancing Soviet soldiers.
the other 79% weren't reported.....

If you were a girl over the age of 10 living in the Russian sector of Berlin in 1945, or anywhere in Germany occupied by the Soviets, you had either been raped, likely more than once, or were going to be.
Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that was an insignificant number. Just reporting what the book says, and the author -- who used diaries, official documents and other reports -- made it clear that the incidents of mass rape in cities like Berlin and others were horrific.

yes, wasn't trying to disagree. Just remember reading some books on the end of the war and the Soviets were pretty notorious for atrocities at the end, and after the end of the war. There was a reason so many Germans were fleeting west to the Allies side as the end of the war was coming.

The French weren't a whole lot better. Most Germans wanted to be in the American or British zone.

And I may be 100% wrong, but weren't most occupation troops guys who actually didn't do a lot of fighting or had seen a lot of combat. The theory being that they had no animosity towards the Germans b/c they hadn't seen all there friends killed while the combat vets had a little more hate inside them?
87_Was_Long_Ago
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Cliff.Booth said:

I'm hoping I can watch this with my 16 year old. I know it says it'll be TV-MA. Assuming it'll have some pretty graphic violence but do yall think it'll have much bad language or sexual content? Wouldn't think so, but Hollywood has surprised me a time or two.

random segue: My father was a B17 navigator who did 28 missions over Germany, Eight Air Force, 381st out of Ridgewell UK. (interestingly also qualified as co-pilot before they changed his job)

Never used much profanity but he once told me that the ONLY time in his life he ever heard the F word used appropriately was over Berlin when their plane got blown to hell and a couple of guys blown apart with shrapnel.

One of the waist gunners (I think) got hysterical and the pilot screamed at him to get back to his F-ing seat and start firing his F-ing gun at the F-ing Germans or they were all gonna F-ing die.

Father said he'd never heard him curse before or after that, that he was always calm, cool, and collected.

And that included bring them back from the continent missing engine(s) and pieces of the plane, and one crash landing partially on fire. Which only drew the comment "Well gentlemen... this is going to be ... interesting"

As many others have said, just a different generation and breed of men.
OldArmy71
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Quote:

weren't most occupation troops guys who actually didn't do a lot of fighting or had seen a lot of combat. The theory being that they had no animosity towards the Germans b/c they hadn't seen all there friends killed while the combat vets had a little more hate inside them?


There was a points system that the US Army developed that was used to decide when troops could return home after the war. Points were given for months in the service, months overseas, decorations, battle stars, dependent children, etc.

But they decided to demobilize the men by unit rather than by individuals.

My father was in an engineer combat battalion which arrived in England in early Nov. 1944 and wound up serving in the combat zone for two months.

He did not have enough points to go home. His unit was disbanded and individuals with enough points were assigned to units returning home, while he was assigned to the Army of Occupation.

He was assigned to an Engineer unit in Third Army, then commanded by George Patton, and remained in Germany for another year and a half.

I imagine his story is typical. As the war ended, many of the occupying troops were combat veterans, but as the months and years wore on, they were replaced by soldiers who had not been in the fighting.

I do not believe that was the plan, of course; it was just the natural course of things.

In fact, there was a strict NO FRATERNIZATION policy in Germany and Austria just after the war that even forbade GIs from speaking with children. Eisenhower relaxed that part of the policy in June 1945 and gradually eliminated more and more of the original edicts.


Just as a side note: I had a German instructor at A&M for three semesters who was a child in Germany during the war and had vivid and fond memories of the GIs giving him food and candy.
AlaskanAg99
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I enjoyed it but didn't love it. Will do a 2nd viewing that will probably raise up the overall enjoyment.

We started watching the Bloody 100th right after and I immediately enjoyed this more.
JABQ04
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I started a rewatch last night and got through the first 4 episodes. Wonderfully done. Really trying this time to keep better track of who is who. I'm hoping (and it may be a long shot) episodes 7 and 8 hit me as better.
MAROON
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jenn96 said:

TH36 said:

Any of you know if the scene with Rosie seeing the concentration camp really happened?

I don't know but I thought that scene was really well done. Both his rising horror at what he was seeing and the matter of fact way the Russians told him they found a lot more camps, much bigger ones, all through Poland and Germany. I knew watching it that he went on to be a prosecutor at Nuremberg, which made it even more of an epiphany.
Also, not sure. What I did find out is that he married his wife (also Jewish in the military) and they had their honeymoon at Hitler's Eagles Nest. Now that is something else!
jwoodmd
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OldArmy71 said:


Quote:

weren't most occupation troops guys who actually didn't do a lot of fighting or had seen a lot of combat. The theory being that they had no animosity towards the Germans b/c they hadn't seen all there friends killed while the combat vets had a little more hate inside them?


There was a points system that the US Army developed that was used to decide when troops could return home after the war. Points were given for months in the service, months overseas, decorations, battle stars, dependent children, etc.

But they decided to demobilize the men by unit rather than by individuals.

My father was in an engineer combat battalion which arrived in England in early Nov. 1944 and wound up serving in the combat zone for two months.

He did not have enough points to go home. His unit was disbanded and individuals with enough points were assigned to units returning home, while he was assigned to the Army of Occupation.

He was assigned to an Engineer unit in Third Army, then commanded by George Patton, and remained in Germany for another year and a half.

I imagine his story is typical. As the war ended, many of the occupying troops were combat veterans, but as the months and years wore on, they were replaced by soldiers who had not been in the fighting.

I do not believe that was the plan, of course; it was just the natural course of things.

In fact, there was a strict NO FRATERNIZATION policy in Germany and Austria just after the war that even forbade GIs from speaking with children. Eisenhower relaxed that part of the policy in June 1945 and gradually eliminated more and more of the original edicts.


Just as a side note: I had a German instructor at A&M for three semesters who was a child in Germany during the war and had vivid and fond memories of the GIs giving him food and candy.
Professor Koepke?
Max Power
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Overall I enjoyed the series. It's not on the level of Band of Brothers or The Pacific, but those two series set the bar for WWII miniseries. While Austin Butler and Callum Turner weren't the best actors in the series, not that I had any issues with their casting, I did think there were a couple of standouts. Anthony Boyle (Crosby) and Nate Mann (Rosenthal) were the guys that really held the series together IMO. Boyle is currently in Manhunt as John Wilkes Booth on AppleTV+ so I should probably check that out.
OldArmy71
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I can see him vividly in my mind's eye and even hear his voice, but I can't remember his name (55 years ago). He was not a Ph.D. or (I think) even tenure track. He had a reputation as being a pretty tough instructor. He was tall, youngish (early 30s), balding, and wore glasses.

I recall that I went in to see him to let him know I was going to be missing his class on Friday because some buddies and I were driving to the Ohio State football game, and he gave me some hell about that.

I also remember the funny story he told about moving to the US and getting drafted. While in the army he was assigned as color bearer, and he carried the unit's flag with all the battle streamers naming numerous German towns and cities.
jwoodmd
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OldArmy71 said:

I can see him vividly in my mind's eye and even hear his voice, but I can't remember his name (55 years ago). He was not a Ph.D. or (I think) even tenure track. He had a reputation as being a pretty tough instructor. He was tall, youngish (early 30s), balding, and wore glasses.

I recall that I went in to see him to let him know I was going to be missing his class on Friday because some buddies and I were driving to the Ohio State football game, and he gave me some hell about that.

I also remember the funny story he told about moving to the US and getting drafted. While in the army he was assigned as color bearer, and he carried the unit's flag with all the battle streamers naming numerous German towns and cities.
That was likely a different guy. Koepke had been there a while when I took his classes but he was professor and tenured so I though might have been him. He talked about being a kid in the war. Was a tough instructor but loved his classes and he did an incredibly fair discussion of differences in countries. Never said a bad word about the US (except for our beer but at that time Miller Lite was pretty much it so he wasn't lying). Oh, and he did complain about our low speed limits!
JABQ04
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SIAP but if you wanna find out more about the men of the 100th this is a great site. I've been looking into the less featured members like Cruikshank, Murphy, Maj Veal, Red, Hamilton etc….

https://100thbg.com/
BassCowboy33
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JABQ04 said:

I started a rewatch last night and got through the first 4 episodes. Wonderfully done. Really trying this time to keep better track of who is who. I'm hoping (and it may be a long shot) episodes 7 and 8 hit me as better.


It was tough keeping track in MotA, but I had similar issues with Band of Brothers. I imagine a second viewing would really help.
AgLA06
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Other than the Majors, Crosby, and Rosie when he gets there no one lasts more than 2-3 episodes to keep track of. That's the issue with following a unit that gets decimated and has to halt operations because there's no one left to fly.

It's not a weakness of the series, but of the story of the unit themselves. It's probably why the red tails are involved at all.
ArmyAg2002
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I highly recommend Harry Crosby's book "On a Wing and a Prayer." It was obviously a primary source for the show and is an excellent companion to fill in gaps and provide additional information.
MAROON
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Book arrived at my house on Thursday!
cab559
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Finale was great.
easttexasaggie04
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This show inspired me to watch Band of Brothers for the first time.
AgLA06
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easttexasaggie04 said:

This show inspired me to watch Band of Brothers for the first time.
wait.....what?!?!

All kidding aside. When you watch it and get enthralled. Just remember, it holds up and looks like it was made yesterday when it fact it was made in 2001.
TH36
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easttexasaggie04 said:

This show inspired me to watch Band of Brothers for the first time.


Must've been a comfy rock you were living under!!

Be prepared to watch it at least once every year from now on.
Zombie Jon Snow
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My rewatch annually always occurs around D-Day anniversary June 6. Just seems fitting and not much on in the summer.

My wife recently watched it for the first time, and my parents too, I was dumbfounded that they had never seen it. Obviously my wife and I watch different things in different rooms but she had to have walked through many times with me watching it over the 20+ years. My son had his third complete viewing this summer with me. He is a history buff and got his degree in history with focus on the holocaust and WWII. He and I then rewatched The Pacific also in the buildup before Masters of the Air. Probably only my 4th viewing of that one but I enjoy it as well. I feel like Masters of the Air will join my rewatch list but maybe not annually like BoB.

I would love a naval battle show at some point - the major Pacific battles like Pearl, Coral Sea, Midway, Guadalcanal, Phillipines and Leyte for example, but also maybe encompassing the Atlantic convoy crossings and sub hunting or battles of the North Sea maybe. Lots of ground.


Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Quote:

I would love a naval battle show at some point - the major Pacific battles like Pearl, Coral Sea, Midway, Guadalcanal, Phillipines and Leyte for example, but also maybe encompassing the Atlantic convoy crossings and sub hunting or battles of the North Sea maybe. Lots of ground.


That would likely result in a disjointed narrative, which seems to be the biggest criticism of The Pacific. Go with one or the other theaters. I also would steer away from both Pearl Harbor and Midway as both have been done more than once theatrically.

I don't have anything specific in mind, but I'd start at Guadalcanal to follow a group of Navy vessels through the big battles in the South Pacific, with a focus both on ship-to-ship battles and air group dominance of the Japs (thinking Marianas Turkey Shoot here), and end that show (after more than 10 episodes) on 2 September 1945 aboard the USS Missouri in Tokyo Bay.
ChoppinDs40
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AgLA06 said:

Other than the Majors, Crosby, and Rosie when he gets there no one lasts more than 2-3 episodes to keep track of. That's the issue with following a unit that gets decimated and has to halt operations because there's no one left to fly.

It's not a weakness of the series, but of the story of the unit themselves. It's probably why the red tails are involved at all.
that and those red tails ended up in the camp with them.
MAROON
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TH36 said:

easttexasaggie04 said:

This show inspired me to watch Band of Brothers for the first time.


Must've been a comfy rock you were living under!!

Be prepared to watch it at least once every year from now on.
Yep. I purchased BOB. I'll flip around looking for something to watch, and then say the heck with it; let's watch some BOB.
Garrelli 5000
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I've said it somewhere on Texags before but this is a good time to repeat.

I really wish my grandfather was around and of sound mind to pick his brain.

He was an air force skip bomber in WWII. Fly low to the ocean, drop bombs, they skip into the side of ships.

Something went wrong one run and a bomb bounced off a swell in the ocean back up into the bomb bay doors as the doors were closing. The bomb got stuck in the partially open doors. the crew couldn't get the doors to open again, nor get the bomb to dislodge.

Their only option was to bail. They couldn't land because the shock could dislodge the bomb, results of that are obvious.

They bailed over Siberia and all met back at the crash site. I remember him saying there was a crater with a prop sticking straight up out of the middle of the crater.

Soon after the Russian military showed up. Russia may have been allies but they didn't trust us in any shape, form, or fashion, They accused my grandfather and crew of intentionally crashing the plane because it was a spy plane. The skip bombing could only be a stupid lie, nobody survived when the bombs bounced back into the plane....

They were placed in a military camp/prison in Siberia. They weren't fully treated as enemy combatants, but they also weren't treated like allies to be trusted with any freedom. The only story I remember of that portion of his tale was they could periodically bath, but they first had to clean the showers from the russian military's use. The russians would use sticks/switches of some sorts to swat their bodies to help clean. He'd have to go clean all of that debris and would be rewarded with a chance to bath.

He was at first considered MIA. Eventually when the war ended he was put on a train and shipped across Siberia towards Europe, eventually being returned to the US services.

It wasn't until the some point in the 1980's that he and other servicemen who ended up in Russian military prisons were finally classified as POW's.

Bits and pieces of the story may be off. He passed away in 2011. The last 12 years or so of his life that became the only story he told as is alzheimer's progressed. Errors may be my memory or his.
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Garrelli 5000 said:

I've said it somewhere on Texags before but this is a good time to repeat.

I really wish my grandfather was around and of sound mind to pick his brain.

He was an air force skip bomber in WWII. Fly low to the ocean, drop bombs, they skip into the side of ships.

Something went wrong one run and a bomb bounced off a swell in the ocean back up into the bomb bay doors as the doors were closing. The bomb got stuck in the partially open doors. the crew couldn't get the doors to open again, nor get the bomb to dislodge.

Their only option was to bail. They couldn't land because the shock could dislodge the bomb, results of that are obvious.

They bailed over Siberia and all met back at the crash site. I remember him saying there was a crater with a prop sticking straight up out of the middle of the crater.

Soon after the Russian military showed up. Russia may have been allies but they didn't trust us in any shape, form, or fashion, They accused my grandfather and crew of intentionally crashing the plane because it was a spy plane. The skip bombing could only be a stupid lie, nobody survived when the bombs bounced back into the plane....

They were placed in a military camp/prison in Siberia. They weren't fully treated as enemy combatants, but they also weren't treated like allies to be trusted with any freedom. The only story I remember of that portion of his tale was they could periodically bath, but they first had to clean the showers from the russian military's use. The russians would use sticks/switches of some sorts to swat their bodies to help clean. He'd have to go clean all of that debris and would be rewarded with a chance to bath.

He was at first considered MIA. Eventually when the war ended he was put on a train and shipped across Siberia towards Europe, eventually being returned to the US services.

It wasn't until the some point in the 1980's that he and other servicemen who ended up in Russian military prisons were finally classified as POW's.

Bits and pieces of the story may be off. He passed away in 2011. The last 12 years or so of his life that became the only story he told as is alzheimer's progressed. Errors may be my memory or his.
That is an incredible story. I would want to ask your grandfather where they were operating to be near enough to Siberia to make it over land in what was likely a B-25 Mitchell or A-20 Havoc. Aleutian Islands is the only area I can think of.
Garrelli 5000
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Exactly the type of details I never asked. My dad is gone but my 2 aunts and possibly a couple of cousins may have some info. I know the family has articles stored away with details. Just gotta find the stuff.
Staff - take out the trash.
Azariah
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CaboAg64 said:

My Dad died while piloting a B-17 in 1948 over France - the series was especially poignant to me - I felt the ending was especially well done!
Genuinely curious here. The war ended in 1945. What happened that your dad died three years later?
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Garrelli 5000 said:

Exactly the type of details I never asked. My dad is gone but my 2 aunts and possibly a couple of cousins may have some info. I know the family has articles stored away with details. Just gotta find the stuff.
I hope you're able to track down those details.

I knew my maternal grandfather had been in the Navy in the Pacific, but at his funeral, I came to find out that he had survived having two ships sunk beneath him. At least that's what part of the family said. My mother said it didn't happen, though. That remains an unconfirmed story. My mom has passed away, so I doubt I'll ever be able to confirm the story. I have tried to get information on him through various online resources, most recently with an Ancestry.com-related service called Fold3, but have never turned up any records on him. I suspect his records were in the warehouse in St. Louis that burned to the ground in the 60s or 70s.
AgLA06
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I don't know his situation, but we had occupation forces that required training and logistics long after the war was over.

For example, Patton was 100% correct about the drunk Russians and we had the Berlin airlift in 1948-1949. All hands on deck by the airforce in theater.
 
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