Joan Wilder said:
I did have to laugh at how everyone in the POW camp was disheveled, dirty, their jackets torn…and Austin Butler looked like he was straight from costuming and hair/makeup.
In Ep 3 or 4, of the podcast, they discuss the getting back into the plane and how hard it was for some of the flyers.G Martin 87 said:
The WWII Museum has a podcast series about the making of the show. Here's the link to the first show.
https://sites.libsyn.com/502943/making-masters-of-the-air-a-new-podcast-from-the-national-wwii-museum
Last year, the museum's regular podcast featured an interview with "Lucky" Luckadoo and Donald Miller. Highly recommended!
https://overcast.fm/+5c17APE08
Based on true events, although they didn't happen to Egan.agracer said:In Ep 3 or 4, of the podcast, they discuss the getting back into the plane and how hard it was for some of the flyers.G Martin 87 said:
The WWII Museum has a podcast series about the making of the show. Here's the link to the first show.
https://sites.libsyn.com/502943/making-masters-of-the-air-a-new-podcast-from-the-national-wwii-museum
Last year, the museum's regular podcast featured an interview with "Lucky" Luckadoo and Donald Miller. Highly recommended!
https://overcast.fm/+5c17APE08
One guy they recounted was a tail gunner and the tail of the plane was separated from the plane (collision I think) and he could not get out. He fell, inside the tail of the plane, 20,000 feet and lived.
He returned to England and then was put back on a crew and had to get back in the tail gunner position of another plane and keep flying!
Also, I know I'm not the only one but when they took the prisoners off the train to walk thru the town that had just been bombed I was all "this is not going to end well".
PatAg said:
If anyone that gave up after 1-2 episodes is still checking this thread, I think you should start watching again.
easttexasaggie04 said:
I figured I was the only one. I'm really liking this show but Austin Butler annoyed me quite a bit at first. He tries to hard to be McDreamy IMO.
I'm not sure that I would feel the same way if he was an unknown before this show. That, and Elvis joined the army.Zombie Jon Snow said:easttexasaggie04 said:
I figured I was the only one. I'm really liking this show but Austin Butler annoyed me quite a bit at first. He tries to hard to be McDreamy IMO.
I'm not sure he can help that. And I say that as a straight biological male.
I think he projects a lack of confidence and timidity that is anything but arrogance. The only scene where I felt otherwise is when he refused to bail out on episode 3. But that was more script than his delivery.Cliff.Booth said:
Don't get the dislike of Butler's acting. His character is cool, calm, and collected. He projects the confidence bordering on arrogance that some people disliked about pilots. There were real guys who looked and carried themselves like he does in the show. I like that the personalities of the characters vary a great deal, as they did in reality among these crews.
That's because this day and age if a person isn't in your face type A, it's seen as weakness. In reality it's often false bravado.aTmAg said:I think he projects a lack of confidence and timidity that is anything but arrogance. The only scene where I felt otherwise is when he refused to bail out on episode 3. But that was more script than his delivery.Cliff.Booth said:
Don't get the dislike of Butler's acting. His character is cool, calm, and collected. He projects the confidence bordering on arrogance that some people disliked about pilots. There were real guys who looked and carried themselves like he does in the show. I like that the personalities of the characters vary a great deal, as they did in reality among these crews.
I don't think it's that complicated. He's not playing a super "nuanced" character or any of that nonsense. No other good leader portrayed in the BoB, Pacific, MoA universe have this problem. None of them had to have timidity excused as "quiet confidence". When leaders came off as weak it was on purpose (like Normal Dike).AgLA06 said:That's because this day and age if a person isn't in your face type A, it's seen as weakness. In reality it's often false bravado.aTmAg said:I think he projects a lack of confidence and timidity that is anything but arrogance. The only scene where I felt otherwise is when he refused to bail out on episode 3. But that was more script than his delivery.Cliff.Booth said:
Don't get the dislike of Butler's acting. His character is cool, calm, and collected. He projects the confidence bordering on arrogance that some people disliked about pilots. There were real guys who looked and carried themselves like he does in the show. I like that the personalities of the characters vary a great deal, as they did in reality among these crews.
Except to those who put their lives on the line and respect the hell out of quiet confidence that never blinks when it matters.
He had that scene in the bar where they were talking with the English guys, and he was the the one that wanted to fight them.aTmAg said:I don't think it's that complicated. He's not playing a super "nuanced" character or any of that nonsense. No other good leader portrayed in the BoB, Pacific, MoA universe have this problem. None of them had to have timidity excused as "quiet confidence". When leaders came off as weak it was on purpose (like Normal Dike).AgLA06 said:That's because this day and age if a person isn't in your face type A, it's seen as weakness. In reality it's often false bravado.aTmAg said:I think he projects a lack of confidence and timidity that is anything but arrogance. The only scene where I felt otherwise is when he refused to bail out on episode 3. But that was more script than his delivery.Cliff.Booth said:
Don't get the dislike of Butler's acting. His character is cool, calm, and collected. He projects the confidence bordering on arrogance that some people disliked about pilots. There were real guys who looked and carried themselves like he does in the show. I like that the personalities of the characters vary a great deal, as they did in reality among these crews.
Except to those who put their lives on the line and respect the hell out of quiet confidence that never blinks when it matters.
I think its simply because he had a damn hard time not playing this role as Elvis. He was Elvis for a year or something, and had a hard time getting that out of him. Apparently there was enough concern, that they made him go to a vocal coach. I think this is him trying his best, but falling a little flat.
The show is still damned good. On par (so far) with BoB and well above Pacific.
I think they should have given us at least 15-20 minutes of the 2 Bucks together in boot camp or flight school, whatever it was they mentioned where they met.Sweet Kitten Feet said:
I never saw Elvis, but not a big fan of Butler. I don't think his performance really detracts from the show at all but I would've liked to have seen a little more about why he's respected. They haven't really delved very deep into his character.
See, I think Keoghan (Biddick) shines in that scene (and episode in general). Not Butler. I don't have the scene on hand, but I think Butler basically just stands up, doesn't he? It's like Butler thinks he should be mad, but really isn't. If his feathers weren't ruffled, then why would he stand up at all?PatAg said:He had that scene in the bar where they were talking with the English guys, and he was the the one that wanted to fight them.aTmAg said:I don't think it's that complicated. He's not playing a super "nuanced" character or any of that nonsense. No other good leader portrayed in the BoB, Pacific, MoA universe have this problem. None of them had to have timidity excused as "quiet confidence". When leaders came off as weak it was on purpose (like Normal Dike).AgLA06 said:That's because this day and age if a person isn't in your face type A, it's seen as weakness. In reality it's often false bravado.aTmAg said:I think he projects a lack of confidence and timidity that is anything but arrogance. The only scene where I felt otherwise is when he refused to bail out on episode 3. But that was more script than his delivery.Cliff.Booth said:
Don't get the dislike of Butler's acting. His character is cool, calm, and collected. He projects the confidence bordering on arrogance that some people disliked about pilots. There were real guys who looked and carried themselves like he does in the show. I like that the personalities of the characters vary a great deal, as they did in reality among these crews.
Except to those who put their lives on the line and respect the hell out of quiet confidence that never blinks when it matters.
I think its simply because he had a damn hard time not playing this role as Elvis. He was Elvis for a year or something, and had a hard time getting that out of him. Apparently there was enough concern, that they made him go to a vocal coach. I think this is him trying his best, but falling a little flat.
The show is still damned good. On par (so far) with BoB and well above Pacific.
Needed a little more of that, but I think the directors were wanting that "cool, calm, reserved" archetype, where nothing ruffles his feathers.
Joan Wilder said:
I did have to laugh at how everyone in the POW camp was disheveled, dirty, their jackets torn…and Austin Butler looked like he was straight from costuming and hair/makeup.
Joan Wilder said:
I did have to laugh at how everyone in the POW camp was disheveled, dirty, their jackets torn…and Austin Butler looked like he was straight from costuming and hair/makeup.
And you are conflating the real Gale Cleven's words and actions with Austin Butler's delivery.AgLA06 said:
He shows authority and pushes Major Eagen back down in his seat and says the loud mouth Britt is his. Keoghan politely asks him to let him do it. He'd owe the Major one.
Just like he does the same when Eagen gets up to sing and ruin the moment in the O Club after the successful Uboat pen mission.
Or in episode one when he calmly lands in a bad crosswind that scares his crew. And then calls off a following Fort.
Or when he calmy suggested that the group fall back to protect Keoghan's fort even though everyone knows that makes them all vulnerable and no one wants to.
They all default to him because they respect him and his quiet confidence. That's the role he's playing.
I'd suggest lowering the shaded glasses and re-watch the episodes again. He leads in just about every episode.
At most it was only a week or 2 apart. Clevan was shot down on October 8th, 1943 and was immediately apprehended once he landed. Egan was shot down 2 days later on October 10th, 1943. Egan evaded capture for a few days, was captured, escaped for another few days and was then captured again. The Reel History guy said they were actually at the same Dulag Luft interrogation center and only a few cells away from each other (they didn't know it) for an overlapping period of time.JABQ04 said:Joan Wilder said:
I did have to laugh at how everyone in the POW camp was disheveled, dirty, their jackets torn…and Austin Butler looked like he was straight from costuming and hair/makeup.
I'll say that looking the part of a leader is important. Similar to Winters shaving in Bastogne in BoB, breaking the ice in his helmet to shave with freezing water because that's the standard, while Nixon and the rest of the company don't shave. Clevan had been a POW for awhile, Germany isn't getting completely ***** slapped yet buy this point so he'd have access to latrine facilities and camp laundry services (whether provided or prison run). I'm unsure of Clevan exact role in the camp, but as a Major I would assume he would look the part of a field grade officer as much as possible.
