Sandra telling Crosby that it wasn't his fault, it was Hitler's and his thugs. So good.
*** Masters of the Air ***
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Last: 3 mo ago by double aught
I assume that the "party" Crosby attends with the subaltern is an Oxford gathering of intellectuals, socialists, Communists, etc., who were really the only people in those days at a university who would be listening to folk music.
Woody Guthrie, of course, as a member of the Almanac Singers (Pete Seeger was one) alternately wrote and sang anti-war and isolationist songs and pro-war anti-fascist songs, depending on the changing attitudes of the Communist Party toward Germany.
As long as Germany and the USSR were at peace, Guthrie was against American aid to Britain. When Germany invaded the USSR, he and other American Communists became strong interventionists, and Guthrie wrote such songs as "Round and Round Hitler's Grave" and "Reuben James."
Very good episode.
Woody Guthrie, of course, as a member of the Almanac Singers (Pete Seeger was one) alternately wrote and sang anti-war and isolationist songs and pro-war anti-fascist songs, depending on the changing attitudes of the Communist Party toward Germany.
As long as Germany and the USSR were at peace, Guthrie was against American aid to Britain. When Germany invaded the USSR, he and other American Communists became strong interventionists, and Guthrie wrote such songs as "Round and Round Hitler's Grave" and "Reuben James."
Very good episode.
There are definitely stuff on the wall at the party that suggests pro-communist students and such.
Anyone get the feeling the subaltern was an SOE.
Anyone get the feeling the subaltern was an SOE.
I was thinking Bletchley Park.wangus12 said:
There are definitely stuff on the wall at the party that suggests pro-communist students and such.
Anyone get the feeling the subaltern was an SOE.
G Martin 87 said:I was thinking Bletchley Park.wangus12 said:
There are definitely stuff on the wall at the party that suggests pro-communist students and such.
Anyone get the feeling the subaltern was an SOE.
i have no idea what any of these acronyms are but i'm really curious as to what her position was.
the note at the end where she left abruptly had me spinning.
And really, any 'critic' that was thinking like should probably find a new job.Hogties said:aTmAg said:
For the critics (mostly in media) that criticized Cleven's off screen "death", kindly GFY. This worked great.
I don't know Buck Cleven's fate (I assume he will be our vehicle for a stalag story line) but the way it was handled in the show in Episode 4 where he simply didn't return from the mission and we learn of his fate through crew reports of his ship taking a direct flak hit and going down was very effective.
It puts us in the position of the ground crews, commanders, support staff, and the Brits helping on base. These larger than life pilots and airmen would takeoff on a mission and simply not return, often with lots of ambiguity about their true fate. The bomber campaign wasn't the movies with clean resolutions and perfect information for the viewer. I thought Buck simply not returning was perfect for the show and the reality of life and death and MIA in this theater.
And if Buck is a POW, great. If he is KIA, good storytelling. Most of the casualties of the bomber war simply vanished into thin air, so to speak. Great filmmaking choice IMO.
Anybody else think Cros was getting laid?
I thought he was.. glad he didn't, since he was married.ArmyAg2002 said:
Anybody else think Cros was getting laid?
G Martin 87 said:I was thinking Bletchley Park.wangus12 said:
There are definitely stuff on the wall at the party that suggests pro-communist students and such.
Anyone get the feeling the subaltern was an SOE.
I'm thinking royalty somehow. Need to check out Crosbys book (if that's even a true thing or a Hollywoodism)
I have read Crosby's book.
According to his book, the relationship with the subaltern was real and he was tempted, but at a crucial point in the relationship he was able to visit home and see his wife which steadied him in his resolve. So he did not see the subaltern again.
She was, as portrayed in the series, involved in some sort of service which she could not reveal.
Crosby was also tempted by another woman who had dumped him earlier in college. I forget the details, but this woman was in the Red Cross or something in London, and Crosby told his wife he had seen her (platonically) a number of times. The wife understood.
He did not tell his wife about the subaltern.
According to his book, the relationship with the subaltern was real and he was tempted, but at a crucial point in the relationship he was able to visit home and see his wife which steadied him in his resolve. So he did not see the subaltern again.
She was, as portrayed in the series, involved in some sort of service which she could not reveal.
Crosby was also tempted by another woman who had dumped him earlier in college. I forget the details, but this woman was in the Red Cross or something in London, and Crosby told his wife he had seen her (platonically) a number of times. The wife understood.
He did not tell his wife about the subaltern.
It's a good read. It's called A Wing and A Prayer
Another great episode.
This show is finally starting to resonate with me like BoB's did and The Pacific.
I can only imagine how those men felt seeing all that they did as POW's and on their way to POW camps.
I can only imagine how those men felt seeing all that they did as POW's and on their way to POW camps.
******* I love this show. It really turned the corner for me this week and I'm seeing it now in the potential BOB tier where I watch it once a year and appreciate it more each time. Like on the 3rd viewing I'll finally recognize one character that has a big scene in episode 8 but he also does something awesome in episode 2 to set it up that I didn't notice the first 2 times. And give me more Elvis staring in the distance with music swelling.
Also there's a new category of opening credits:
Category 1 - skip the opening credits (vast majority of shows)
Category 2 - always watch the opening credits (GOT, BOB, True detective season 1, most HBO shows)
Category 3 - watch the opening credits again after the show ends every week volume cranked to super max because it's the greatest thing ever
Also there's a new category of opening credits:
Category 1 - skip the opening credits (vast majority of shows)
Category 2 - always watch the opening credits (GOT, BOB, True detective season 1, most HBO shows)
Category 3 - watch the opening credits again after the show ends every week volume cranked to super max because it's the greatest thing ever
I bought the score so I can listen when I want to. I've been kicking off my Friday mornings with that score since I got it.Quote:
Category 3 - watch the opening credits again after the show ends every week volume cranked to super max because it's the greatest thing ever
The WWII Museum has a podcast series about the making of the show. Here's the link to the first show.
https://sites.libsyn.com/502943/making-masters-of-the-air-a-new-podcast-from-the-national-wwii-museum
Last year, the museum's regular podcast featured an interview with "Lucky" Luckadoo and Donald Miller. Highly recommended!
https://overcast.fm/+5c17APE08
https://sites.libsyn.com/502943/making-masters-of-the-air-a-new-podcast-from-the-national-wwii-museum
Last year, the museum's regular podcast featured an interview with "Lucky" Luckadoo and Donald Miller. Highly recommended!
https://overcast.fm/+5c17APE08
It resonated with me quite a while ago. That said this episode (which contain no actual flying in a series called Masters of the Air) was awesome. Maybe not the best one even, but the deepest one.
There are moments and the scene walking into the POW camp and seeing Cleven there, smiling of course, was great.
But other moments really stood out to me.
The moment Harry Rosenthal paused outside his plane, seeking the self motivation to climb back in while tapping out music on the fuselage was poetic and ties back to the story the other airman told of how he hummed on their return flight and that voice over the radio was calming to him. Which also relates to when he talked to him late at night stillbristling at the idea of enjoying culture with a war going on. And that in turn ties back to when he asked the doc if he could leave and get back in the fight and the doc telling him that it wasn't just about him but about motivating the crew. It all comes back together there as he climbs back in the plane.
The mysterious Subaltern Westgate - seemingly unflappable so why was she here? For R&R or to size up Cos or others? She's either a spy/intelligence or she is in Bletchley Park. Something big. She remained aloof throughout and yet very engaging without revealing anything. And then poof she is gone - so quickly she doesn't pack her stuff or find a car but steals a bike and zips away. She could drink which makes me think spy/intelligence as the people at Bletchley would have been screened for any alcohol issues and a spy would need to fit in and hold their own in such circumstances. But we will never know I guess. Anyway she was perfectly cast and played.
Bucky's interrogation was fascinating. Using all the same Americanisms as the underground unit trying to ferret out the spies. But here to try to relate to Bucky and get him to talk. Bucky is unbreakable though as he stoically repeats name, rank, serial number despite the temptation to engage and the manipulative attempts used on him.
Yep. Might be my favorite episode so far. To be determined but an early candidate.
There are moments and the scene walking into the POW camp and seeing Cleven there, smiling of course, was great.
But other moments really stood out to me.
The moment Harry Rosenthal paused outside his plane, seeking the self motivation to climb back in while tapping out music on the fuselage was poetic and ties back to the story the other airman told of how he hummed on their return flight and that voice over the radio was calming to him. Which also relates to when he talked to him late at night stillbristling at the idea of enjoying culture with a war going on. And that in turn ties back to when he asked the doc if he could leave and get back in the fight and the doc telling him that it wasn't just about him but about motivating the crew. It all comes back together there as he climbs back in the plane.
The mysterious Subaltern Westgate - seemingly unflappable so why was she here? For R&R or to size up Cos or others? She's either a spy/intelligence or she is in Bletchley Park. Something big. She remained aloof throughout and yet very engaging without revealing anything. And then poof she is gone - so quickly she doesn't pack her stuff or find a car but steals a bike and zips away. She could drink which makes me think spy/intelligence as the people at Bletchley would have been screened for any alcohol issues and a spy would need to fit in and hold their own in such circumstances. But we will never know I guess. Anyway she was perfectly cast and played.
Bucky's interrogation was fascinating. Using all the same Americanisms as the underground unit trying to ferret out the spies. But here to try to relate to Bucky and get him to talk. Bucky is unbreakable though as he stoically repeats name, rank, serial number despite the temptation to engage and the manipulative attempts used on him.
Yep. Might be my favorite episode so far. To be determined but an early candidate.
I re-watched Stalag 17 over the weekend and somehow it never dawned on me in previous watches they were all shot-down bomber crews. There's a line early on explaining the shell-shocked character had seen "the guts of nine pals splattered all over his plane" It's fascinating to watch some of those very early post-war movies that dealt honestly and compassionate with the PTSD (12 oclock high, stalag 17, Best years of our lives).
My favorite episode and not a minute of air combat (WTF?)! Lots of intense scenes.
Loved the interrogation scene as well. Thanks to whoever posted the link to the Reel History Channel. That was great.
I had a low bar for this thing and didn't expect it to be anywhere near BoB but it is approaching it for me. I'm really looking forward to every episode and it's making me dive deeper into everything around the show. That's my measuring stick for if something is worth watching or not.
Loved the interrogation scene as well. Thanks to whoever posted the link to the Reel History Channel. That was great.
I had a low bar for this thing and didn't expect it to be anywhere near BoB but it is approaching it for me. I'm really looking forward to every episode and it's making me dive deeper into everything around the show. That's my measuring stick for if something is worth watching or not.
All excellent films!
AgFB said:
My favorite episode and not a minute of air combat (WTF?)! Lots of intense scenes.
Loved the interrogation scene as well. Thanks to whoever posted the link to the Reel History Channel. That was great.
I had a low bar for this thing and didn't expect it to be anywhere near BoB but it is approaching it for me. I'm really looking forward to every episode and it's making me dive deeper into everything around the show. That's my measuring stick for if something is worth watching or not.
Ditto. I paused to google the town (Sagan) where the POW camp was and then the camp itself. FYI that town WAS in Germany (at the time) but is now in Poland (Zagan). I found it interesting it just called it Germany as it was occupied then. The Russians would later occupy it in their progression toward Germany after a devastating battle in the area. The Potsdam conference returned it to Polish hands and all Germans were expelled forcibly. It was resettled by refugees from eastern Poland that were displaced by land lost to Russia. But the Russian air force used the airbase there until 1992.
Very good episode and the pause that Rosey had before climbing back into the airplane where he had to steel himself for going back into action was very reminiscent of Gregory Peck not being able to get back into the plane at the end of Twelve O'Clock High. Peck was willing but his body simply refused and he reached his breaking point.
Rosey hasn't been broken (yet) by the strain of combat where each takeoff is very similar to going over the top in WWI. How many times can a man do it before he breaks?
Masters of the Air, Band of Brothers, and Pacific show the great differences in wartime experiences that men at the tip of the spear had in WWII. A marine on Okinawa, an airman in a B-17, an army infantry man in Europe all experienced very different wars. All extreme and all horrifying and all testing men to their fullest. But very different experiences.
And that is reflected in the very different feel of the shows. BoB is a coherent story following a group of men from Normandy to Germany. Pacific is more episodic in feel (like the island hopping campaign was) where no one unit went from Tarawa to the Philippines, to Iwo, to Okinawa, to occupied Japan. Masters is more akin to a WWI experience where the men are asked to "go over the top" time after time until they are decimated.
Very different experiences that demand very different story telling.
Rosey hasn't been broken (yet) by the strain of combat where each takeoff is very similar to going over the top in WWI. How many times can a man do it before he breaks?
Masters of the Air, Band of Brothers, and Pacific show the great differences in wartime experiences that men at the tip of the spear had in WWII. A marine on Okinawa, an airman in a B-17, an army infantry man in Europe all experienced very different wars. All extreme and all horrifying and all testing men to their fullest. But very different experiences.
And that is reflected in the very different feel of the shows. BoB is a coherent story following a group of men from Normandy to Germany. Pacific is more episodic in feel (like the island hopping campaign was) where no one unit went from Tarawa to the Philippines, to Iwo, to Okinawa, to occupied Japan. Masters is more akin to a WWI experience where the men are asked to "go over the top" time after time until they are decimated.
Very different experiences that demand very different story telling.
In agreement that this was yet another great episode in a series I liked from the start which seems to get better and better as it builds. I think they're doing an amazing job demonstrating the psychological toll that this took on the crews and how they responded to it differently. Imagine being sent to the "flak house" and being in a little slice of heaven but knowing you were also only days away from returning to your greatest fear. Truly hard to fathom. This series is such a gem. Wish we had far more episodes left.
1/3 of series was ok, 2/3 has been great
https://ts.la/eric59704
I think part of the reason this episode was so good is because Austin Butler wasn't in it. Am I the only one?
All in. Knocked out a couple of the podcast episodes, rewatched episodes 4 and 1 and as expected they were even better the 2nd time. Love this show. First watch it's a blur of random dudes with masks and on rewatch now you recognize more of them and appreciate the small things.
I agree that filling out Rosenthal's personality in this episode was very well done. Him tapping the rhythm before flipping back into the cabin was very good.
Egan downed in Germany was intense and the interogation very well acted. The train station scene reminds us how helpless they really were as POWs.
I'll rewatch, but I didn't think Croz and the subaltern added anything to the show. I don't remember Croz from the book at all. I guess they are pulling plot from his book? Gotta give the "narrator" something to do? And judging by some comments in this thread, it won't go anywhere because no one ever figured who/what she was.
I would've rather liked the show to spend these minutes with the young flyers trying to get out of Europe with French resistance. We haven't seen them in the last two episodes. I think we left them in a high stress situation at the Paris train station.
Egan downed in Germany was intense and the interogation very well acted. The train station scene reminds us how helpless they really were as POWs.
I'll rewatch, but I didn't think Croz and the subaltern added anything to the show. I don't remember Croz from the book at all. I guess they are pulling plot from his book? Gotta give the "narrator" something to do? And judging by some comments in this thread, it won't go anywhere because no one ever figured who/what she was.
I would've rather liked the show to spend these minutes with the young flyers trying to get out of Europe with French resistance. We haven't seen them in the last two episodes. I think we left them in a high stress situation at the Paris train station.
She was wasting a lot of time partying with a random Navigator to be associated with Bletchley Park. I have no idea why/how the two would be associated.G Martin 87 said:I was thinking Bletchley Park.wangus12 said:
There are definitely stuff on the wall at the party that suggests pro-communist students and such.
Anyone get the feeling the subaltern was an SOE.
rynning said:
I think part of the reason this episode was so good is because Austin Butler wasn't in it. Am I the only one?
Yes. I think you might be.
I think he has been amazing and I missed his character the last two episodes. But I think it was great allowing the character development for others.
Austin Butler has annoyed me too. To me, he doesn't come off as the leader-type guy that the show claims him to be. He's too quiet and reserved. He comes off as a good looking Michael Cera (can't think of a better analogy). Now maybe that is how the real guy was, and that the show is following the book. If so, then I'm wrong. But something made these guys want to follow him, and I don't see how in the show.
To me, Callum Turner as Egan has been the real star. I wasn't sure I liked him at first, but now I can see why people follow him.
Nate Mann (Rosethal) comes off really well too. That may be my bias in knowing how much of a badass he really was.
To me, Callum Turner as Egan has been the real star. I wasn't sure I liked him at first, but now I can see why people follow him.
Nate Mann (Rosethal) comes off really well too. That may be my bias in knowing how much of a badass he really was.
In a single episode Austin Butler is good. I get tired of his acting because he just does the same cheesy sly grin with the same look like all the time.Zombie Jon Snow said:rynning said:
I think part of the reason this episode was so good is because Austin Butler wasn't in it. Am I the only one?
Yes. I think you might be.
I think he has been amazing and I missed his character the last two episodes. But I think it was great allowing the character development for others.
His voice is what annoys the hell out of me.
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