Did they show one of the Star Destroyers (I guess a first order one since the Palpatine ones didn't have a takeoff tower active) having been lightspeed-sliced at the end during the montage of planets celebrating? Like they walked back the whole thing and then, I guess, un-walked it back?

When was Hux comic relief?

Sometimes it wasn't even so much comic relief as it was just a step back from the characters we actually care about for a second. Like even his hitler speech in TFA was kind of comically intense I thought.

Decay said:

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Did they show one of the Star Destroyers (I guess a first order one since the Palpatine ones didn't have a takeoff tower active) having been lightspeed-sliced at the end during the montage of planets celebrating? Like they walked back the whole thing and then, I guess, un-walked it back?

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Eagle eye. Good catch if you are right. It was a First Order one, and seeing those Ewoks celebrate thought it absurd because it was like `events on Exegol' are not going to just get the First Order ones blown up. But if that was another one of those Holdo rammings that explains it. Such an eyeroll. Especially if by such a brief clumsy scene we are supposed to assume the entire First Order has been thrown down. They only lost one ship at Exegol. But they watned to fan-service the end of ROTJ to the letter. Imagine you noticed how (Kylo's ship/Gen Pryde's flagship) was crashed into a surface even after bridge taken out. Ah well.

Jim01 said:

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And it was an abortion of comedy. That opening sequence sets such a bad taste for the movie. It takes Hux, who was a weasel in TFA but at least a character, and turns him into a horrifically bad character. That "Can you hear me? I can hear him, can he hear me?" moment is some of the worst, most slap-sticky facial acting in history. Lord I hate that moment.

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That took me out of the movie so bad and the Star Wars feeling never came back for the rest of it, except for the Force Yoda/Luke sequence. That was well done IMO.

Flashdiaz said:

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that moment after the 'mom' joke elicited the same 'uh oh' moment I got when watching the Phantom Menace when the trade federation nemodians starting talking with bad Japanese accents.

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I remember showing my gf the prequels before TROS (she's only ever seen the originals and sequels) and when we started TPM and the Neimoidians started talking, she looked at me with disbelief and said "are they making fun of Asians?"

canadiaggie said:

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Flashdiaz said:

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that moment after the 'mom' joke elicited the same 'uh oh' moment I got when watching the Phantom Menace when the trade federation nemodians starting talking with bad Japanese accents.

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I remember showing my gf the prequels before TROS (she's only ever seen the originals and sequels) and when we started TPM and the Neimoidians started talking, she looked at me with disbelief and said "are they making fun of Asians?"

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What'd she think when she first heard Jar Jar yapping?

canadiaggie said:

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Jim01 said:

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And it was an abortion of comedy. That opening sequence sets such a bad taste for the movie. It takes Hux, who was a weasel in TFA but at least a character, and turns him into a horrifically bad character. That "Can you hear me? I can hear him, can he hear me?" moment is some of the worst, most slap-sticky facial acting in history. Lord I hate that moment.

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That took me out of the movie so bad and the Star Wars feeling never came back for the rest of it, except for the Force Yoda/Luke sequence. That was well done IMO.

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Agree. And if it didn't entirely take me out of the movie, the subsequent scene with Hux being toppled and spun around between the control pits by Snoke did. Especially coming on the heels of that earlier farce scene. It took much of the impact of the Dreadnaught's destruction out of it---- its own commander was a somewhat convincing figure. Hux was a courtier or court eunuch type, but a total buffoon wouldn't be that high in the position any more than eunuchs were. LTJ just practically ruined the character. He should have been played more like a cross between Heydrich (who he reminded of) and Himmler if you want to make him weak.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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PatAg said:

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When was Hux comic relief?

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TLJ

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Comic relief is supposed to be funny. Not being on the receiving end of a prank call

PatAg said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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PatAg said:

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When was Hux comic relief?

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TLJ

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Comic relief is supposed to be funny. Not being on the receiving end of a prank call

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Put it this way, and maybe this was your point, they attempted to use him as comic relief. Instead they made him a cringe worthy caricature. Jar Jar bad

redline248 said:

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PatAg said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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PatAg said:

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When was Hux comic relief?

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TLJ

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Comic relief is supposed to be funny. Not being on the receiving end of a prank call

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Put it this way, and maybe this was your point, they attempted to use him as comic relief. Instead they made him a cringe worthy caricature. Jar Jar bad

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That sums it up well. And there is nothing about the character that foreclosed any possibility of being made more interesting and Machiavellian. One thing really unclear is whether in TROS he was wanting to avenge Snoke, on Kylo. It was significant that he wanted Kylo in particular "to lose" -- nothing about the First Order.

He and Kylo clearly had a rivalry going back to TFA, when he blames Kylo in front of Snoke for losing the girl and the droid

TLJ would have developed that rivalry quite nicely if it didn't make him the butt of Prank call and a "yo mama" joke

bobinator said:

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I thought it was kinda reminiscent of Han's "we're all okay here... how are you?" bit when rescuing Leia. Definitely didn't take me out of the moment like some of the other stuff in the movies have.

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That scene in ANH felt in line for me, the Yo Mama joke in TLJ just took me out. I'm not even sure I can logically explain why. Maybe because it was funny that Han was awkwardly stalling rather than hitting them with a quip. I think maybe because the MCU has changed how we approach humor in action blockbuster movies, which works for MCU movies - I just thought it fell a little flat in that particular scene. my two cents

Decay said:

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Did they show one of the Star Destroyers (I guess a first order one since the Palpatine ones didn't have a takeoff tower active) having been lightspeed-sliced at the end during the montage of planets celebrating? Like they walked back the whole thing and then, I guess, un-walked it back?

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Decay,

Just wanted to confirm, you were spot on. You see a First Order Star Destroyer crashing down past Cloud City. Then right after you cut to what is a First Order destroyer lightspeed shattered in the skies above Ewoks on Endor. Apparently someone committed suicide with their ship. The sequence reminds again and is reminiscent of Independence Day or the original ROTJ special edition ending. I guess we are supposed to conclude the whole First Order fell too.

MuckRaker's link here led to a youtube video called the `The Rise of Skywalker correct ending' which used that footage. (All might agree the mash has a good take on what arguably is indeed a better ending and certainly a cleverly spliced one.)

https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/3084730/replies/55797480

I thought this answer from Nolan was particularly relevant to a lot of the critiques of this film. I enjoy Abrams' films, but I can't help but wonder.. what if a director of Nolans quality, and the writing that tends to accompany it, did a Star Wars movie.

That's a great interview, and I agree wholeheartedly with his approach. In that sense, I can't help but hope that the sequel trilogy was our Batman Forever / Batman & Robin phase, and whoever/whatever is next cinematically for Star Wars is our Nolan / Batman Begins, so to speak. The chances are slim, I know, but if there was ever a time to re-invent the franchise (not in terms of a reboot, but in terms of better filmmaking), this is it.

(Granted, in this scenario, the prequels would technically be the Batman Forever / Batman & Robin phase, but you get my point.)

MuckRaker96 said:

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The prequels were like Adam West fighting the shark while dangling from the helicopter, or being hypnotized into dancing the Batusi.

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You shut your mouth, that shark scene was a peak accomplishment in special effects and a masterfully written, directed, and acted piece of cinema

Finally went to see it last night, enjoyed parts of it but what a mess overall. It felt like they took 10 hours of footage and edited it down into a single film. I liked the idea of Palpatine being back but it was hard to understand exactly how it happened. Rey being his granddaughter seemed completely out of left field. The action moved so fast I feel like I missed some of the bits of dialog that explained what was happening. Once I see it again maybe some of this stuff will make more sense.

Overall I suppose this was really the only way to close out this trilogy based on how little the first two films moved the plot forward.

In hindsight, I think they should have had the first movie mimic Phantom Menace. Stuff going on that the republic isn't sure about and then the first order is discovered toward the end. Finn could still desert and find Rey and together they reach Leia or Poe to warn about the FO, and we have Kylo running around wiping out people that might know where Luke is, or have Luke not be in hiding but shadowing Kylo to figure out what he's up to.

redline248 said:

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In hindsight, I think they should have had the first movie mimic Phantom Menace.

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Nah

k2aggie07 said:

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redline248 said:

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In hindsight, I think they should have had the first movie mimic Phantom Menace.

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Nah

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I don't mean completely, just that no one knows about the first order, yet.

Dr. Teeth said:

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I'm skipping 40 pages to provide my thoughts.

This movie has a whole hell of a lot of dumb in it, but it moves too fast for you to really think about it.

My one sentence review: To undo Anakin's actions in ROTJ and have a PALPATINE triumph at the end of the SKYWALKER saga is some grade A bull****.

That is all.

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That is one of the most objectionable elements, imo. I suggested rather earlier in the thread that any going to re-watch it, just pretend Palpatine is Darth Plagueis, and it becomes both more comprehensible, more enjoyable because it doesn't undermine ROTJ in the way you describe, and you even have the bonus of Palpatine's daughter helps bring him down. It also makes sense of the hidden Sith fleet and power- --- and why they sat out the battles that could have saved the Empire. Also, having re-watched TLJ now --- there is absolutely no hint in Snoke that he knows who she is.

Agree. If Rian took a **** all over Luke's legacy, look at what JJ did to Anakin & Luke both. It took the two of them to defeat the Emperor, but that doesn't matter anymore. They really just killed Palp's body and sent his spirit into hiding on some Sith outerworld.

I Have Spoken said:

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Agree. If Rian took a **** all over Luke's legacy, look at what JJ did to Anakin & Luke both. It took the two of them to defeat the Emperor, but that doesn't matter anymore. They really just killed Palp's body and sent his spirit into hiding on some Sith outerworld.

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All part of the process <insert coach's clap here>.

titan said:

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Dr. Teeth said:

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I'm skipping 40 pages to provide my thoughts.

This movie has a whole hell of a lot of dumb in it, but it moves too fast for you to really think about it.

My one sentence review: To undo Anakin's actions in ROTJ and have a PALPATINE triumph at the end of the SKYWALKER saga is some grade A bull****.

That is all.

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That is one of the most objectionable elements, imo. I suggested rather earlier in the thread that any going to re-watch it, just pretend Palpatine is Darth Plagueis, and it becomes both more comprehensible, more enjoyable because it doesn't undermine ROTJ in the way you describe, and you even have the bonus of Palpatine's daughter helps bring him down. It also makes sense of the hidden Sith fleet and power- --- and why they sat out the battles that could have saved the Empire. Also, having re-watched TLJ now --- there is absolutely no hint in Snoke that he knows who she is.

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Wow i really like this idea. Imagine if TLJ had snoke reveal both reys palpatine blood and reminded the audience about Darth Plagueis , or have snoke made by Darth Plaugeis even but didnt reveal himself till after Palps is dead.( or even Luke and Yoda discuss him. Maybe have some flashbacks to when he is mentioned in the prequels) then have TROS with what you said.

Sarduakar said:

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titan said:

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Dr. Teeth said:

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I'm skipping 40 pages to provide my thoughts.

This movie has a whole hell of a lot of dumb in it, but it moves too fast for you to really think about it.

My one sentence review: To undo Anakin's actions in ROTJ and have a PALPATINE triumph at the end of the SKYWALKER saga is some grade A bull****.

That is all.

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That is one of the most objectionable elements, imo. I suggested rather earlier in the thread that any going to re-watch it, just pretend Palpatine is Darth Plagueis, and it becomes both more comprehensible, more enjoyable because it doesn't undermine ROTJ in the way you describe, and you even have the bonus of Palpatine's daughter helps bring him down. It also makes sense of the hidden Sith fleet and power- --- and why they sat out the battles that could have saved the Empire. Also, having re-watched TLJ now --- there is absolutely no hint in Snoke that he knows who she is.

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Wow i really like this idea. Imagine if TLJ had snoke reveal both reys palpatine blood and reminded the audience about Darth Plagueis , or have snoke made by Darth Plaugeis even but didnt reveal himself till after Palps is dead.( or even Luke and Yoda discuss him. Maybe have some flashbacks to when he is mentioned in the prequels) then have TROS with what you said.

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It does have promise, doesn't it? There is so much about both TLJ and TROS that could be rescued by just the slightest tweaks, not even a lot of change in filming. Plagueis is canon -- he is mentioned in TPM, so it doesn't matter that they are ignoring the EU. And it makes total sense that someone who chased a secret that even Palaptine didn't know may have been a greater Sith --- it would fit perfectly with it was he, not Palpatine, that learned the secret to at least partially cheat death. (You play the scenes on Exegol just as they are) Leave Palpatine and Vader dead at Endor -- don't undo ROTJ. This just means TROS is the next round --finishing off the Sith itself and it also fits with the Sith proper trying to take the fallen Empire's place in the form of the Final Order.

Oh, and it nicely explains why Snoke doesn't really seem like Palpatine, and doesn't know about Rey. Its a clone Plagueis made of himself --- (again, change little about the Exegol set-up--just switch the villain)

This version would fall better in with the complete story line of 40+ years; however, Disney dumbed this way down for the newer generation.

They wanted and have focused on Rey's story. REY's story. If they were like "hey you're Palpatine's granddaughter and I'm darth plagueis, welcome to thunder dome" then you'd have 10Million kids wearing Rey and Po costumes going "who's darth palpatine?"

This is about Reys heritage and facing her past and destiny. Although it kind of threw shade to ROTJ I thought it bridged the old, and for Disney most importantly, the New.