Just home after seeing it with my wife and still unpacking what I saw.

Overall, it was a fun ride and I thoroughly enjoyed that 2.5 hours. Enough to go see it again tomorrow when the wife is at work and I'm enjoying my time off. I expect to find more of those inconsistencies and plot holes tomorrow, but really tried to have an open mind and just absorb things this first go-round.

There's a lot going on. There's like 8 plot threads all unwinding at the same time in order to resolve a ton of character arcs. I think JJ over-corrected to fix a lot of the mess he was left. The alternative to this movie was a 3+ hour movie (so it felt less busy), or resolving fewer of the arcs and fewer of the questions (or having some of those resolutions come too easily). Option A wasn't really an option because all of the content that would be inserted to slow things down would just feel like filler (and they'd be criticized for making it 3 hours long because of that filler). Option B of resolving fewer items means a less complete conclusion to the saga, which people would have crucified it for.

I won't get into most of the plot points in specifics, but people *****ing about force powers expanding and developing too far are just ridiculous. Healing is an established use of the force in most EU and the way they made the user sacrifice to heal the injured party was meaningful way to introduce the concept to the films.

Each plot line really needs to be analyzed in its own dedicated viewing, there's that much going on.

Like a lot of others, I'm fine with this movie because of the bow it ties on the saga overall, even if it isn't a complete story in itself. Probably A- as part of the saga, probably C+ or B- as a stand-alone Star Wars movie.

So... $176M opening weekend and 58% RT score, both numbers well below tracking/expectations. I honestly don't know if the latter is enough for Kennedy to lose her job, but by all notable metrics (including bombing in China) this movie performed about as bad as it possibly could have. Business-wise, it's going to be incredibly interesting to see where things go from here...

I hear you. And I get the emotions, I do. I just don't think it's necessary to express such seething vitriol for the guy responsible. That said, I Can understand how things can come across harsher here than they're likely meant.

Yeah, that's a good point. I sometimes forgot just how much the movies affect toys, parks, etc, and Disney has to be fairly concerned now.

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-streaming-box-office-mandalorian-1203450593/

I was thinking the same thing when watching it. When Poe had all but given in to defeat I expected at any moment we'd hear "On your left"

Right? I was jokingly expecting that exact line, but then when they did basically the same thing I was like, "Seriously?"

So I was positive halfway through the movie that the end would be Rey completely defeated facing the Emperor. When force ghosts of Luke, Hayden/Anakin, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and even Mace Windu would all appear to fight him with her. Turned to my buddy and told him, "I guarantee this is what's gonna happen..."


I was pretty close it turns out, but I also thought, that while that would be totally badass, it would basically just be ripping off Endgame

TCTTS said:

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Right? I was jokingly expecting that exact line, but then when they did basically the same thing I was like, "Seriously?"

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JJ - "We can't do that, it's too similar... wait I've got it! What if we say, 'On your right'??? JJ you sonofa*****, you've done it again... Where are those lens flares?"

Thought the exact same thing. I would have bet money on all the notable Force ghosts showing up to help save the day. Granted, they kind of did, but only in spirit (no pun intended).

Ulrich said:

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TCTTS said:

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So... $176M opening weekend and 58% RT score, both numbers well below tracking/expectations. I honestly don't know if the latter is enough for Kennedy to lose her job, but by all notable metrics (including bombing in China) this movie performed about as bad as it possibly could have. Business-wise, it's going to be incredibly interesting to see where things go from here...

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We're at 5 movies. TFA panned by critics but made dump trucks full of money, TLJ loved by critics but controversial with fans, TROS panned by critics and not looking really strong at the box office (Wednesday Christmas might give it a little extra push?). Solo lost money, Rogue One was a good movie but didn't really seem to land culturally.

Four directors have been canned on movies that eventually came out, 1 trilogy has been cancelled (Benioff & Weiss), 1 standalone cancelled (Fett), and 1 trilogy pushed back and somewhat in question (Rian Johnson).

I think it's time for Kennedy to bow out. TCTTS or someone has made the point before that Iger probably forced an unrealistic timeline. It might not be her fault that this has been such a troubled run, but it still feels like it's time for a reset.

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This is a great summary of the maelstrom this franchise has been since the get-go. Don't forget Bob Iger demanding TFA be rushed and the mess about Solo having to bring in Ron Howard. There isn't a single film that wasn't distracted by "off-the-field" issues.

PatAg said:

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MBAR said:

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People can claim its overthinking or that there is a disconnect between critics and regular fans but it all comes down to what you wanted from this. If you wanted a copy of RoTJ then you're probably pleased. And thats fine.

But for me, that's just lazy. I didn't mind that approach for TFA becaue they were trying to show they could put out good star wars movies. But that was 4 star wars movies ago. At this point, at the culmination of the "skywalker saga", to do nothing new and instead to copy everything - including the villain - is just uninspired to the max.

There are plenty of franchises that just rinse repeat and give me what I expect and want and thats fine. For instance, a fast and furious movie. But Star Wars doesn't claim to be that. They claim to be better. The expectations are set higher. Apparently the shouldn't be.

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Do they?

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100% they do. I've never heard a single F&F movie in an Oscar discussion.

I've never heard Star Wars be involved in Oscars outside of visuals or music. They aren't high art, they are just fun movies.

PatAg said:

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I've never heard Star Wars be involved in Oscars outside of visuals or music. They aren't high art, they are just fun movies.

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Well, then I can only surmise it's because you've never bothered to look. A new hope was nominated quite heavily.

And more recently

https://movieweb.com/mark-hamill-last-jedi-oscar-campaign-luke-skywalker/

The Force Awakens has a 93% on Rotten Tomatoes, higher than TLJ.

Just saw the movie and I enjoyed it. It was a satisfying ending in my opinion.

I'm curious where they go from here in terms of Star Wars movies. Rian Johnson's trilogy seems to be the only planned thing right now, and those films seem to be far off (assumed they are ever made). That's not even considering how hated Rian Johnson is by a portion of the Star Wars fanbase. At least the Disney+ shows have gotten to a good start with The Mandalorian, so hopefully we can continue to see Star Wars content on that medium for the foreseeable future.

Personally, I'm sad at how this whole Star Wars movie thing has played out so far with Disney. They knocked the MCU out of the park, but Star Wars has been a mess. I love Star Wars and was super excited at the prospect of getting SW movies on the regular, but that seems to be at risk at this point. I guess the demand for lots of Star Wars movies ala Marvel movies just isn't there.

PatAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Right? I was jokingly expecting that exact line, but then when they did basically the same thing I was like, "Seriously?"

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To be fair, its not Avengers broke any new ground with that scene. That's been done so many times in movies/books

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They do in two of the LotR movies and like 2x within Return of the King itself lol.

"Theoden King stands alone."
"Not alone. Rohirrim!"

and then Theoden showing up at the Pelennor and then Aragorn showing up with the Dead from Dunharrow. Also if you count it for Sauron, the Haradrim showing up on their Mumakil

This has been disappointing by Star Wars numbers, but this is still a huge money maker. They will continue on, but as mentioned above, I agree. I think Kennedy has reached the end of her run. So that being said, who are the people in line to take this over and lead it back to the standards everyone wants to see... is it Feige and Filoni? And I guess I'm looking for TCTTS to answer. We know Feige will be involved to some capacity, but does he take more of a role now? Is this something that could be split with Feige in command directing both Star Wars and Marvel at a high level, and Filoni handling the day to day?

Even with Feige working on a SW film, I think it's best to curb expectations on some grand MCU-like plan. For one, that is TOUGH to do. We're spoiled having seen it work once but it's really difficult to execute and is going to remain the exception, not the rule. I think you'll see some standalone films and Disney+ shows over the next 2-3 years, then maybe see some threads tied between them that leads to a new, cohesive, non-skywalker trilogy if they're convinced a new character/story can create a draw and it can be done at the right price.

But I go back to my previous comment that the SW IP is about way more than theatrical. Like it or not, Disney is going to leverage their entire product portfolio (parks, merch, streaming, broadcast, whatever) to get a return on that $4B. And until they have a path to making Disney+ profitable, I don't think they'll sink the investment into a vast new film saga.

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JW said:

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And I want to watch a story about who digs up those light sabers and why.

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Some bored retiree that has nothing better to do