Think every SW trilogy has suffered from box office fatigue.
*** STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER *** (Spoiler Thread)
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Last: 4 yr ago by Brian Earl Spilner
I Have Spoken said:
Think every SW trilogy has suffered from box office fatigue.
nope.... i mean SW was the King of the OT but VI outgrossed V
And TPM was the top for the PT but again III outdrew II
And TFA was way above TLJ but if TROS ends up being the lowest of the trilogy it would be the first time the middle movie outdrew the finale of a SW trilogy.
So the middle pics always had some letdown, but usually recovered and bounced back on the finale.
SW 460M
ESB 290M
ROTJ 309M
TPM 474M
AotC 310M
ROTS 380M
TFA 936M
TLJ 630M
TROS TBD
Rogue One 534M
Solo 210M
I Have Spoken said:
Think every SW trilogy has suffered from box office fatigue.
Star Wars has not, nor ever could, suffer from Box Office fatigue (IMO).
Maybe for some people, but (IMO) a decline in movie goers is not a reflection on the original material. I think the fans know what they want and what they don't want. You need to provide that while not being dictated by it.
I think Rian Johnson had the right initial idea that you have to make a good story and don't try to be a people pleaser. It's a ticket to failure in life and apparently in Star Wars.
The problem was Johnson followed it up by making a really bad ****ing movie. He's still an exceptionally good director.
I think the Rise of Skywalker had everything you need to be great, but the weak link was Abram's writing and Kennedy's ****ty, ****ty steering of the franchise's ship overall.
Clearly others here liked it as is.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
Gangnam Style said:
So current weekend box office projection for TROS is $185 mil (TFA opened at 247 and TLJ opened at 220). Global numbers down ~15% vs TLJ. CinemaScore survey gave the movie a B+ (quite bad for a blockbuster). Thoughts on the box office struggle? Is it due to TLJ or just a meh movie in general?
Considering the built in Disney and Star Wars fan base this will be a relative failure. Partially due to TLJ and turning off large sections of the fan base. My best friend was over last night and I tried to get him to come with me. Despite being a lifelong Star Wars fan (we get together and play the old Battlefront games all the time), he refused to see it. TLJ broke him.
Additionally, this movie (while not awful) is a mess. Mainly because of the situation that Abrams was put in. Hard to start and end an epic of this caliber story in two hours. They should have done 4 movies at this point.
It'll barely make a billion. But it will likely be around the Joker gross (which is crazy since Joker was R and this is the final SW).
Abrams at least almost made chicken salad out of chicken s**t in that one. Rian Johnson left him a mess and he made that better than it deserved to be.
Same here. Know a lot of mid 40's Star Wars fans like myself who just flat refuse to see this after what TLJ did. The only reason I gave in and went is because I heard that Johnson got the middle finger on this one.
Quad Dog said:
Did Rey's new lightsaber look double bladed to anyone else?
I called a double-bladed yellow lightsaber at least a year ago.
Mr. Nobody said:
Abrams at least almost made chicken salad out of chicken s**t in that one. Rian Johnson left him a mess and he made that better than it deserved to be.
See, I agree completely that the 3rd film was put in a bad spot by the insane liberties Johnson took. He just gutted the **** out of it and never "understood" Star Wars.
But I'm loathe to pat Abram's or Disney on the head because I think others could have done better.
Abrams just ignored TLJ and created a sequel to his Force Awakens but with Palpatine instead of his original choice of Smote and less character development.
I think this cast was way above Abrams' talent level and deserved better.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
Quote:
Abrams just ****ing ignored TLJ and created a sequel to his Force Awakens but with Palpatine instead of his original choice of Smote and less character development.
I see all of this as a positive. I don't need that much character development in a Star Wars movie.
Sure, but bringing Palpatine back was flat out lazy.Bo Darville said:Quote:
Abrams just ****ing ignored TLJ and created a sequel to his Force Awakens but with Palpatine instead of his original choice of Smote and less character development.
I see all of this as a positive. I don't need that much character development in a Star Wars movie.
I thought it was pretty awesome. Way better than some new big badly. Palps was always uber powerful and he searched his entire life for the ways to live forever in regards to Plagious' research. It was part of his lore in the Star Wars canon so it fit his character.
Bo Darville said:
Same here. Know a lot of mid 40's Star Wars fans like myself who just flat refuse to see this after what TLJ did. The only reason I gave in and went is because I heard that Johnson got the middle finger on this one.
My kids really wanted to see it, so I was going to take them after opening weekend. Then I heard it's a big FU to Johnson (which it absolutely is) and I decided to go opening weekend after all.
Brian Earl Spilner said:Quad Dog said:
Did Rey's new lightsaber look double bladed to anyone else?
I called a double-bladed yellow lightsaber at least a year ago.
Except it's not double bladed.
Ask any other movie company on this planet if they'd like a $185 million opening weekend struggle and get back to me.Gangnam Style said:
So current weekend box office projection for TROS is $185 mil (TFA opened at 247 and TLJ opened at 220). Global numbers down ~15% vs TLJ. CinemaScore survey gave the movie a B+ (quite bad for a blockbuster). Thoughts on the box office struggle? Is it due to TLJ or just a meh movie in general?
Wtf choice was he left with? Make a battle with Kylo the ultimate conflict in the galaxy?
Bo Darville said:Quote:
Abrams just ****ing ignored TLJ and created a sequel to his Force Awakens but with Palpatine instead of his original choice of Smote and less character development.
I see all of this as a positive. I don't need that much character development in a Star Wars movie.
See, I get that, I do. But for some reason I do need it.
And I don't understand why, because I'm basically a superficial person.
I think it has something to do with I'm trying to write a novel (nothing serious, just a bit of fun) and it's really bad. I'm just not a good writer. I can definitely recognize bad writing, but creating good writing is hard. It's not like you take what makes bad writing and then invert it.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
MuckRaker96 said:Ask any other movie company on this planet if they'd like a $185 million opening weekend struggle and get back to me.Gangnam Style said:
So current weekend box office projection for TROS is $185 mil (TFA opened at 247 and TLJ opened at 220). Global numbers down ~15% vs TLJ. CinemaScore survey gave the movie a B+ (quite bad for a blockbuster). Thoughts on the box office struggle? Is it due to TLJ or just a meh movie in general?
Once again, this is the last movie of the Skywalker saga. $185 million sounds great but that is on par with Incredibles 2 and The Fate of the Furious. It is Star Wars. You could put a picture of a cat holding a lightsaber on the screen for 2 hours and still make $100 million +.
Consider the capital that Disney has sunk into Star Wars:
-Entire theme park
-Cornerstone of its new streaming service (including the first major original series)
-If you've been out shopping, the amount of SW merchandising is more than I've ever seen before
Disney does not want declining returns on SW. Especially when they stare getting increasing returns from Marvel. You have to know people at corporate are freaking out about the reception.
Gangnam Style said:Sure, but bringing Palpatine back was flat out lazy.Bo Darville said:Quote:
Abrams just ****ing ignored TLJ and created a sequel to his Force Awakens but with Palpatine instead of his original choice of Smote and less character development.
I see all of this as a positive. I don't need that much character development in a Star Wars movie.
I disagree. Palpatine has always been THE bad guy. Vader gets the spotlight in 4-6, but he was a pawn in the emperor's game. He should have been introduced in TLJ so it wasn't so rushed in ROS.
All they need to do is add an end credit scene to Last Jedi of Palpatine laughing and Rey and Kylo looking around. Boom solved for future generations
"Don't be afraid of who you are"
Leia to Rey
my mind: Welp, this is the arc they are going with. I guess it makes sense and the prophecy was just misinterpreted for so long.
Overall, fun movie, was hoping for call backs to the Mando and baby yoda but didn't get it.
Leia to Rey
my mind: Welp, this is the arc they are going with. I guess it makes sense and the prophecy was just misinterpreted for so long.
Overall, fun movie, was hoping for call backs to the Mando and baby yoda but didn't get it.
MuckRaker96 said:Ask any other movie company on this planet if they'd like a $185 million opening weekend struggle and get back to me.Gangnam Style said:
So current weekend box office projection for TROS is $185 mil (TFA opened at 247 and TLJ opened at 220). Global numbers down ~15% vs TLJ. CinemaScore survey gave the movie a B+ (quite bad for a blockbuster). Thoughts on the box office struggle? Is it due to TLJ or just a meh movie in general?
Not if you've spent billions acquiring the IP.
Best review I've read yet, one that I might have found more entertaining than the movie itself. It's just so perfectly positive, negative, hilarious, and everything in between (though, it leans positive overall)...
http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2019/12/21/the-rise-of-skywalker-and-how-star-wars-is-junk/
Quote:
I want the four-hour version of this film. I'm told one exists - a long, possibly clumsy cut. But I want it. Because there's so much missing here.
Let me backtrack and explain: as I said, this film endeavors to culminate both three films, and nine films, and it does those things well. Sometimes, too well - it tries very hard to please everybody. Did you like TLJ? This film synthesizes it. Did you hate it? This film answers it. Did you want Leia to be a Jedi? Done. Did you want Rey to be both Somebody and Nobody, a Palpatine, a Skywalker? Done. All of it! Boom! Did you want Reylo? Done. Did you want Ben Solo's redemption, but also, not too much of his redemption? Done. Palpatine? He's back. Did you want Luke to catch a lightsaber instead of throwing it away? Done. But also, porgs? Yep, porgs. Han Solo as an almost Force Ghost? **** it, why not? Christ, are you still mad (as, admittedly, I was) that Chewie never got a ****ing medal in A New Hope? WELL, THIS **** FIXES IT. It just throws everything at the wall. Sith! Jedi! Skywalkers! Death stars! Desert planets! Forest planets! Ewoks! AhhhHHHHHaaahhhh *hnnngh* narrative orgasm *hrrrrgggh*.
But as a film, it also forgets to be a singular unit.
It forgets to conclude itself.
http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2019/12/21/the-rise-of-skywalker-and-how-star-wars-is-junk/
BoydCrowder13 said:MuckRaker96 said:Ask any other movie company on this planet if they'd like a $185 million opening weekend struggle and get back to me.Gangnam Style said:
So current weekend box office projection for TROS is $185 mil (TFA opened at 247 and TLJ opened at 220). Global numbers down ~15% vs TLJ. CinemaScore survey gave the movie a B+ (quite bad for a blockbuster). Thoughts on the box office struggle? Is it due to TLJ or just a meh movie in general?
Once again, this is the last movie of the Skywalker saga. $185 million sounds great but that is on par with Incredibles 2 and The Fate of the Furious. It is Star Wars. You could put a picture of a cat holding a lightsaber on the screen for 2 hours and still make $100 million +.
Consider the capital that Disney has sunk into Star Wars:
-Entire theme park
-Cornerstone of its new streaming service (including the first major original series)
-If you've been out shopping, the amount of SW merchandising is more than I've ever seen before
Disney does not want declining returns on SW. Especially when they stare getting increasing returns from Marvel. You have to know people at corporate are freaking out about the reception.
Well, I feel about as concerned as I would if Bethesda, Electronic Arts or Activision (the 3 great Satans of gaming monetization and loot boxes) took a terrific hit.
Which is none at all.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
Or is it? Remember Mauls in the TPM I think was originally shown as a single blade and then "Woah double blade reveal!" , also with her staff skills double bladed moves would make sensebangobango said:Brian Earl Spilner said:Quad Dog said:
Did Rey's new lightsaber look double bladed to anyone else?
I called a double-bladed yellow lightsaber at least a year ago.
Except it's not double bladed.
When is Kennedy getting taken to the **** can?
That's the most important step in what Disney does with SW moving forward.
That's the most important step in what Disney does with SW moving forward.
AliasMan02 said:Stupe said:
Chewie's medal....eyes watered on that and had a huge lump in my throat.
Two deep canon cuts for you: Chewie actually had his own medal that he gave away.
The medal Maz gave Chewie was actually Luke's that Han used to pay a tab, telling her it was his.
Wasn't that medal what Leia was holding when she died? I assumed Her wanting him to have it was more about the emotion of that.
And is Chewie getting a medal still in the current canon?
Pretty good review...but how's it 'forget to conclude itself'? I thought everything got wrapped up nicely.
I'm with him though...I want to see the four hour version.
I'm with him though...I want to see the four hour version.
TCTTS said:
Best review I've read yet, one that I might have found more entertaining than the movie itself. It's just so perfectly positive, negative, hilarious, and everything in between (though, it leans positive overall)...Quote:
I want the four-hour version of this film. I'm told one exists - a long, possibly clumsy cut. But I want it. Because there's so much missing here.
Let me backtrack and explain: as I said, this film endeavors to culminate both three films, and nine films, and it does those things well. Sometimes, too well - it tries very hard to please everybody. Did you like TLJ? This film synthesizes it. Did you hate it? This film answers it. Did you want Leia to be a Jedi? Done. Did you want Rey to be both Somebody and Nobody, a Palpatine, a Skywalker? Done. All of it! Boom! Did you want Reylo? Done. Did you want Ben Solo's redemption, but also, not too much of his redemption? Done. Palpatine? He's back. Did you want Luke to catch a lightsaber instead of throwing it away? Done. But also, porgs? Yep, porgs. Han Solo as an almost Force Ghost? **** it, why not? Christ, are you still mad (as, admittedly, I was) that Chewie never got a ****ing medal in A New Hope? WELL, THIS **** FIXES IT. It just throws everything at the wall. Sith! Jedi! Skywalkers! Death stars! Desert planets! Forest planets! Ewoks! AhhhHHHHHaaahhhh *hnnngh* narrative orgasm *hrrrrgggh*.
But as a film, it also forgets to be a singular unit.
It forgets to conclude itself.
http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2019/12/21/the-rise-of-skywalker-and-how-star-wars-is-junk/
Perfect review. Pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. I guess I'm just too much of a fanboy at heart to hate this movie despite th fact that it's a mess structurally. Abrams is kind of a terrible writer, but is really good at combining emotional, moving individual moments.
Overall, I liked it. The pacing was insane and there was a lot to unpack, but my general feeling afterward was satisfaction.
I have some thoughts, but I'll read through the previous pages to make sure they haven't already been beaten to death.
One thought I did have though is how even though I liked it, it comes up way short when compared to Endgame in terms of concluding a saga. And that got me thinking how badly I wish they'd waited to do 7-9 until Feige was done with Endgame and let him oversee the final trilogy.
I have some thoughts, but I'll read through the previous pages to make sure they haven't already been beaten to death.
One thought I did have though is how even though I liked it, it comes up way short when compared to Endgame in terms of concluding a saga. And that got me thinking how badly I wish they'd waited to do 7-9 until Feige was done with Endgame and let him oversee the final trilogy.
There's a lot of similarities between this and Justice League
Maybe it was just me, but the twin sunset shot kinda looked like BB8? With one sun 3/4 hidden behind the other. Little guy stole the show again!
Saw it for the second time last night. Enjoyed it a lot more this go around.
I really enjoyed it. Was it flawed? Yes
I wish they would have just had JJ Abrams do all 3 movies. That's my biggest issue with it all. It's clear they didn't have a clear vision on how it would end, they just went movie by movie.
Say what you will about the prequels.... at least Lucas had it all thought out before episode 1 started filming
I wish they would have just had JJ Abrams do all 3 movies. That's my biggest issue with it all. It's clear they didn't have a clear vision on how it would end, they just went movie by movie.
Say what you will about the prequels.... at least Lucas had it all thought out before episode 1 started filming
I absolutely loved this movie. I'm stunned at what JJ and Terrio were able to pull off with not only the character resolutions of this trilogy but also making this a true bookend to the saga itself.
Exciting, moving...so much setup and payoff. All of the big moments hit hard for me.
Exciting, moving...so much setup and payoff. All of the big moments hit hard for me.
One thought on the "lacking a clear vision" complaint (which I agree with).
The original trilogy was put together by two different directors with no overarching vision of where it was going, and everyone loves it.
The prequel trilogy was put together by a single director who knew exactly where it was going, and everyone hated it.
I wonder if LucasFilms / Kathleen Kennedy drew the wrong lessons from that and thought a cohesive vision just wasn't that important.
The original trilogy was put together by two different directors with no overarching vision of where it was going, and everyone loves it.
The prequel trilogy was put together by a single director who knew exactly where it was going, and everyone hated it.
I wonder if LucasFilms / Kathleen Kennedy drew the wrong lessons from that and thought a cohesive vision just wasn't that important.
Thanks and gig'em