IMO I didn't think the lineage was even necessary. That could have been done in IX if they wanted it. I think VIII just revealing that he's back in some way, and his forces put the resistance on the ropes. Luke steps in and saves them for escape. Could have been a creepy, scary, awesome reveal.
*** STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER *** (Spoiler Thread)
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Last: 4 yr ago by Brian Earl Spilner
Blatant Disregard said:
Are we just gonna sit here and not acknowledge that goofy-looking Adam Driver got to kiss Daisy Ridley and Scarlett Johansson in his last two films?
Consider it payment for being the MVP of this trilogy.
Daisy was great... so were Oscar and John, but for me, the most emotional connection was with Kylo and Ben Solo. Not sure if all agree, but Driver was perfect... I hated him and cheered him start to finish.
Considering Logan Lucky is one of my favorite recent movies, I might be in danger of becoming an Adam Driver fanboy. Gross!
Rey was created by Palpatine...ok that's fine. Maybe he manipulated the midi chlorians like he allegedly did with Anakin and that's the big reveal.
I can't believe this crap about Rey's Dad being Palp's kid like it's implying there's some normal palpatine family just hanging out in the suburbs. It's too weird. Oh hey honey I forgot to tell you my Dad is also this all powerful Sith Lord we need to go hide our daughter from him. Was it not obvious at the wedding something was off about him?
You think you're parents weren't special. No! They just *pretended* to be nobodies so they could hide you from Pal-paw. And also **** you Rian Johnson
I can't believe this crap about Rey's Dad being Palp's kid like it's implying there's some normal palpatine family just hanging out in the suburbs. It's too weird. Oh hey honey I forgot to tell you my Dad is also this all powerful Sith Lord we need to go hide our daughter from him. Was it not obvious at the wedding something was off about him?
You think you're parents weren't special. No! They just *pretended* to be nobodies so they could hide you from Pal-paw. And also **** you Rian Johnson
Random thoughts.
Episode IX subtitle should be "we did the best we could". Or maybe "A Lot Of Retcon Was Necessary Sorry".
I thought Rey's character arc was a little confused. She heals the snake, she "heals" the robot, she heals Ben, she should have destroyed Palpatine by healing. Give him a hug or something.
You can view the entire nine movie arc as a posing two questions: are good and evil real or just balanced approaches to the same? And is it acceptable for good to withdraw on defeat? The first is always, of course, answered as good, but it's been unclear. This movie felt strongly that it's not "a certain point of view." The second question is raised over and over again, and it's the only meaningful contribution I think of TLJ - the answer, finally, is no. And Rey answers it well in her character's instincts, and the final answer is helped by Luke. I loved that. In a way, you could see a kind of mirror in this question on Ben's side (helmet / no helmet).
I thought Driver did absolutely an amazing job with Ben. His mannerisms after he was Ben were uncannily Han Solo. His little shrug to the knights after the saber pass was 100% Han in ROTJ when the Ewoks show up.
The dagger pointing the way on the Death Star wreckage was dumb. The light speed skipping was beyond stupid. The unanswered question is almost unforgivable (show a gun in act I and II and don't use it in act III???!??).
Not a good movie. Editing was rough. It's baffling the storyline wasn't hammered out from the get-go. Maybe we can come up with a clever interpretive framework to watch all9 8 in like Machete order did with the first 6 5 to make it feel coherent.
Episode IX subtitle should be "we did the best we could". Or maybe "A Lot Of Retcon Was Necessary Sorry".
I thought Rey's character arc was a little confused. She heals the snake, she "heals" the robot, she heals Ben, she should have destroyed Palpatine by healing. Give him a hug or something.
You can view the entire nine movie arc as a posing two questions: are good and evil real or just balanced approaches to the same? And is it acceptable for good to withdraw on defeat? The first is always, of course, answered as good, but it's been unclear. This movie felt strongly that it's not "a certain point of view." The second question is raised over and over again, and it's the only meaningful contribution I think of TLJ - the answer, finally, is no. And Rey answers it well in her character's instincts, and the final answer is helped by Luke. I loved that. In a way, you could see a kind of mirror in this question on Ben's side (helmet / no helmet).
I thought Driver did absolutely an amazing job with Ben. His mannerisms after he was Ben were uncannily Han Solo. His little shrug to the knights after the saber pass was 100% Han in ROTJ when the Ewoks show up.
The dagger pointing the way on the Death Star wreckage was dumb. The light speed skipping was beyond stupid. The unanswered question is almost unforgivable (show a gun in act I and II and don't use it in act III???!??).
Not a good movie. Editing was rough. It's baffling the storyline wasn't hammered out from the get-go. Maybe we can come up with a clever interpretive framework to watch all
Yes! It would have been great. Don't care if they copy original trilogy. Would have been great.InternetFan02 said:
Imagine a JJ abrams episode VIII that ends with Rey...I am your grandfather. If that's how it was pitched to Rian Johnson that would have sent him over the edge. If you thought there were justified complaints about TFA copying the OT too much...
JJ doing all three would have been awesome. The redemption of Luke in TROS was awesome. A wonderful moment that should have happened in VIII.
This "I need to be challenged" and "jedi's should come from a family lineage of nobodies" is so dumb. It's a movie!!! - escape your daily reality and watch jedi kick butt from a powerful lineage.
Plus, it's the "Skywalker Saga". Rey should 100% be someone from a lineage from the OT. Let the "nobody can be a jedi" happen in a new saga.
I feel like Chris Farley with all my "quotes"
I knew they were gonna knee cap Rian Johnson's version and I knew J.J. Abrams was a bad story teller. So I knew this movie was going to be difficult to watch with significant parts of the brain working.
And so I watched it drunk. And it wasn't bad. I had fun. I had to keep the boos flowing but it was a good time.
But for those who enjoyed it sober, what is your ****ing problem?
And so I watched it drunk. And it wasn't bad. I had fun. I had to keep the boos flowing but it was a good time.
But for those who enjoyed it sober, what is your ****ing problem?
PaulSimonsGhost said:
But for those who enjoyed it sober, what is your ****ing problem?
We aren't ****ing alcoholics like you
tk for tu juan said:PaulSimonsGhost said:
But for those who enjoyed it sober, what is your ****ing problem?
We aren't ****ing alcoholics like you
Functioning alcoholic thank you very much.
That's a great point and Abrams hit it on the head. I don't watch Star Wars to be challenged. I want the story of the force, of Jedis and sith, and lightsabers and space battles.
Well said.Aggie_Journalist said:
The first episode set up some questions, like it's supposed to.
Then the second episode chose to answer all those questions in the least satisfying way possible. (I think RJ said something about wanting to always do the opposite of everyone's expectations.) And the story was left with nowhere to go.
So JJ had to put a ton of stuff in episode 9 to get the narrative back on tracks, basically retcon bad ideas (like Luke walking away from the force and RJ making a huge deal of Rey being a nobody), find a reason for bad characters to not get screen time (Rose), kill a major villain RJ had turned into A cartoonish idiot (Hux), Develop a new big bad threat since Snoke was killed, work around the fact that Carrie Fisher was dead, and get to a conclusion people didn't hate.
Given the terrible state of story JJ was left to work with, I don't know how anyone expected much more from this movie. It course corrected as best it could and delivered a fun experience. I think it's pretty impressive how well it turned out despite the steaming pile RJ dumped on everyone in episode 8.
I agree with TCTTS about the "lack of space" and storytelling aspect. This thing was fast and furious from start to end. Two movies packed into one.
But it didn't take away from the experience for me. A lot had to be reexplained and wrapped up.
PaulSimonsGhost said:
I knew they were gonna knee cap Rian Johnson's version and I knew J.J. Abrams was a bad story teller. So I knew this movie was going to be difficult to watch with significant parts of the brain working.
And so I watched it drunk. And it wasn't bad. I had fun. I had to keep the boos flowing but it was a good time.
But for those who enjoyed it sober, what is your ****ing problem?
I'm really starting to think Redstone has a new sock
I enjoyed this movie. Overdid the fanservice a bit and the kiss was out of place in that moment, but those were my only complaints.
Most of the real problems came from how bad and outof place 8 was, so I have no problem with overtly trashing RJ's choices. They could have had a character named Rian s*** himself to death on screen and I would have been ok with it.
This should have been two movies (TLJ never made) with the first including a real Palpatine reveal. That would have given a lot more time to let the plot unfurl rather than explode. I wish they had let JJ write the whole story even if someone else directed 8 and 9.
Most of the real problems came from how bad and outof place 8 was, so I have no problem with overtly trashing RJ's choices. They could have had a character named Rian s*** himself to death on screen and I would have been ok with it.
This should have been two movies (TLJ never made) with the first including a real Palpatine reveal. That would have given a lot more time to let the plot unfurl rather than explode. I wish they had let JJ write the whole story even if someone else directed 8 and 9.
Replying on your review. I almost feel like JJ needs to team with another director. I think he is amazing at creating moments that evoke strong emotions from the viewer, and just amazing visuals in general. I think I mentioned it earlier, but Chewie reacting to Leia's death had more emotion in it than most major movies imo.
He just needs someone to keep the story on track/coherent maybe. Or instead of another director, just an editor with a strong voice in the room.
And I've liked most of Rians other work, I just disagreed his whole approach to TLJ (subverting expectations can be effective when used sparingly)
He just needs someone to keep the story on track/coherent maybe. Or instead of another director, just an editor with a strong voice in the room.
And I've liked most of Rians other work, I just disagreed his whole approach to TLJ (subverting expectations can be effective when used sparingly)
"That's now how you treat a Jedis weapon" - Luke in RoS...while presumably JJ gives Rian the finger during this scene at the premier
I think I'd be totally happy with Rian getting his own Star Wars film. I just think he made several poor decisions in TLJ in regards to the story of the trilogy.
wangus12 said:
I think I'd be totally happy with Rian getting his own Star Wars film. I just think he made several poor decisions in TLJ in regards to the story of the trilogy.
I agree with this but his name might be poisonous to any Star Wars project at this point
Just give me normal movies set in this universe, do it.
This explains so much (in the best way).
I enjoyed it but it was a bit too jam-packed.. But still enjoyable. There was applause at the end in our theater.
One of the things that annoyed me was that the force somehow became more powerful than the one power in wheel of time.
If force healing was so easy why didn't Obi-Wan even try to heal Qui Gonn? After all Kylo had exactly the same wound.
If bringing people from the dead is so easy maybe Anakin did not have to turn to the dark side. (even the one power cannot do that)
If a weakened Emperor could just suck the life force out of Ben and Rey, how the hell did he lose to Luke and Darth at the death star?
Maybe the Sith temple gave him strength but now the Sith can just zap planes out of the sky?
If force ghosts can now hold physical objects in addition to cast lightning.. Why didn't 10 of them appear behind Sheev Palpatine at any point after Episode 3 and shiv him with his lightsaber?
Some of the usage of the Force seemed like it was done by the clowns who ruined the last season of Game of Thrones because they did not understand the magic elements of the show.
I am a sucker for Star Wars and love it all but when you are dealing with fantasy elements you need consistency and cannot turn it into a deux ex machina like this.
One of the things that annoyed me was that the force somehow became more powerful than the one power in wheel of time.
If force healing was so easy why didn't Obi-Wan even try to heal Qui Gonn? After all Kylo had exactly the same wound.
If bringing people from the dead is so easy maybe Anakin did not have to turn to the dark side. (even the one power cannot do that)
If a weakened Emperor could just suck the life force out of Ben and Rey, how the hell did he lose to Luke and Darth at the death star?
Maybe the Sith temple gave him strength but now the Sith can just zap planes out of the sky?
If force ghosts can now hold physical objects in addition to cast lightning.. Why didn't 10 of them appear behind Sheev Palpatine at any point after Episode 3 and shiv him with his lightsaber?
Some of the usage of the Force seemed like it was done by the clowns who ruined the last season of Game of Thrones because they did not understand the magic elements of the show.
I am a sucker for Star Wars and love it all but when you are dealing with fantasy elements you need consistency and cannot turn it into a deux ex machina like this.
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"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
Agreed. His best movies are the ones he didn't write. So maybe just giving up the writing from here on out and only directing others' scripts would increase his batting average by so much.
This conspiracy is pretty great...
Yes, Rotten Tomatoes is meaningless, but it might mean something to somebody powerful.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ediutg/disney_is_paying_rottentomatoes_to_freeze/
Yes, Rotten Tomatoes is meaningless, but it might mean something to somebody powerful.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ediutg/disney_is_paying_rottentomatoes_to_freeze/
That was a mess. Still 100x better than TLJ.
I can see your other points, but this one I completely disagree with. Literally every other Star Wars movie *other than* The Last Jedi gets the point across that certain people are stronger in the force than others. Not just anyone can be a Jedi. The Last Jedi goes against that, and is totally wrong. Rey being a Palpatine explains everything about how she is so strong with the force because Palpatine is the character in all of the Star Wars movies that is strongest in the force (arguable, but I think only Yoda or Mace Windu would have the argument to make).TCTTS said:jr15aggie said:
I'm curious what in particular do you think dismissed TLJ? I didn't see anything in particular that just took a crap on the story.
Luke is still very much "dead". Rey and Kylo still have their thing going. I personally didn't see anything that completely went against TLJ story.
- In TLJ, Rey representing the idea that *anyone* could be a Jedi, but then in TROS, Rey only being special because she has the blood of Palpatine running through her.
I'm not arguing your main point, but the top 4 prior to the ST are Palpatine, Anakin, Luke, and Yoda, in no particular order. Windu is second tier with Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Dooku.
Only reason I include Windu is that he defeated Palpatine. Although one could argue that Palpatine let him so he could turn Anakin.Ulrich said:
I'm not arguing your main point, but the top 4 prior to the ST are Palpatine, Anakin, Luke, and Yoda, in no particular order. Windu is second tier with Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Dooku.
Eh, "anyone can be Jedi" is a plot development I liked. I think it's BS to say that you have to be of a certain bloodline, born with just the right midichlorian count, etc. It's exclusionary and makes the movies less interesting in the long run. I didn't like a lot of Johnson's choices, but that one was I was all for.
Furthermore, the claim that Rey was a nobody was one line from Kylo, and Rey didn't believe him at the time, and neither did a lot of viewers.Quote:
Literally every other Star Wars movie *other than* The Last Jedi gets the point across that certain people are stronger in the force than others. Not just anyone can be a Jedi. The Last Jedi goes against that, and is totally wrong. Rey being a Palpatine explains everything about how she is so strong with the force because Palpatine is the character in all of the Star Wars movies that is strongest in the force (arguable, but I think only Yoda or Mace Windu would have the argument to make).
TCTTS said:
That was one of the most jarring, head-scratching decisions of this whole thing. How was the last movie or the entire first act of this movie not about the characters coming to discover this fact in dramatic fashion? Poe's casual, "So, everyone, Palpatine's alive" and everyone reacting as if they were told lunch was delayed five minutes was the weirdest thing ever. This movie was full of dumbfounding pacing issues and reveals like that.
It's not in the other two movies because they pulled it out of their ass for this moviem
You may have liked it, but it goes against the rules of the Star Wars universe.TCTTS said:
Eh, "anyone can be Jedi" is a plot development I liked. I think it's BS to say that you have to be of a certain bloodline, born with just the right midichlorian count, etc. It's exclusionary and makes the movies less interesting in the long run. I didn't like a lot of Johnson's choices, but that one was I was all for.
And furthermore, it's real life. Not just anyone can be an NFL or NBA player, either, no matter how much you would like that to be true.
Not just anyone can be a successful screen writer, producer, etc., either. Only a limited number of people have the talent for it. It's just how it things are.
Rex Racer said:You may have liked it, but it goes against the rules of the Star Wars universe.TCTTS said:
Eh, "anyone can be Jedi" is a plot development I liked. I think it's BS to say that you have to be of a certain bloodline, born with just the right midichlorian count, etc. It's exclusionary and makes the movies less interesting in the long run. I didn't like a lot of Johnson's choices, but that one was I was all for.
And furthermore, it's real life. Not just anyone can be an NFL or NBA player, either, no matter how much you would like that to be true.
Not just anyone can be a successful screen writer, producer, etc., either. Only a limited number of people have the talent for it. It's just how it things are.
I don't think it meant that anyone can be a Jedi, just that a Jedi can come from anywhere. Not everyone can be special, but special people can come from the most unlikely backgrounds. Hell, Anakin was born poor and was a slave on a desert backwater.
It was just hamfisted and not well expressed.
If that's the point that The Last Jedi was trying to make, it was 18 years too late. Heck, 40 years too late because Luke was from the middle of nowhere on Tatooine.canadiaggie said:Rex Racer said:You may have liked it, but it goes against the rules of the Star Wars universe.TCTTS said:
Eh, "anyone can be Jedi" is a plot development I liked. I think it's BS to say that you have to be of a certain bloodline, born with just the right midichlorian count, etc. It's exclusionary and makes the movies less interesting in the long run. I didn't like a lot of Johnson's choices, but that one was I was all for.
And furthermore, it's real life. Not just anyone can be an NFL or NBA player, either, no matter how much you would like that to be true.
Not just anyone can be a successful screen writer, producer, etc., either. Only a limited number of people have the talent for it. It's just how it things are.
I don't think it meant that anyone can be a Jedi, just that a Jedi can come from anywhere. Not everyone can be special, but special people can come from the most unlikely backgrounds. Hell, Anakin was born poor and was a slave on a desert backwater.
It was just hamfisted and not well expressed.
I'd say it was poor writing to just ignore what was being set up in TFA. It's not bad in it's own right, just within the context of being a sequel to an existing story
Honestly I think the worst part about this movie is that they should have used the first half for the ending of Episode 8, ending where Rey stabs Kylo and then heals him, with Leia dying. Cutting out the stupid Canto Bight storyline would have given you enough time with some minor plot adjustments (honestly cutting out as much of Episode 8 as possible and incorporating the first half of this movie would have made Episode 8 so much better).
Then you could have had Episode 9 be all about Rey and Ben embracing the light side of the force, growing stronger in the force and training together with the final show down taking place pretty much the same way. Would have made the romantic parting at the end seem much more in place.
This movie was fun, unlike the last one. I liked it better than 7 or 8, but 3-6 are better.
Then you could have had Episode 9 be all about Rey and Ben embracing the light side of the force, growing stronger in the force and training together with the final show down taking place pretty much the same way. Would have made the romantic parting at the end seem much more in place.
This movie was fun, unlike the last one. I liked it better than 7 or 8, but 3-6 are better.
I'd put it at 5 out of 9. Behind the OT and TFA. But I enjoyed it much more than the prequels and TLJ. And it's much closer to the top 4 than the bottom 4. It was clunky at times, but still a fun ride.
Totally agree that this movie was rushed in pace and would be better as 2 movies. Epic even, with a palp reveal near the end of 8. But after the pile of crap that 8 was, putting together something as good AND complete as this movie was is amazing to me. Redeemed the franchise to me really.