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'm not going to give this a letter grade or a number. I'll just say that it's really not that bad. It's a big step down from Wonder Woman, but a big step up from BvS, which I think is pretty much what we were all expecting.

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that's all i'm hoping for to be honest.

I actually enjoyed the characters in this. Some really great character moments and interactions.

Dog **** visuals though. Narrative structure was a mess and I kept asking myself questions about why characters would do things and say things and it took me out of the movie. I wonder if the inevitable extended edition will fix the issue with editing and awkward scenes.

I'm excited for future installments of the characters we saw. But for this movie, I'd give it a 4/10.

MrPlow2010 said:

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Haha, holy ***** Did his face really look that bad? If so that would ruin the movie right there all on its own. Just so distracting.

Went in with low expectations, left thoroughly entertained and thought the CGI was excellent.

GiveEmHellBill said:

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Steppenwolf. Seriously, his design made him look almost exactly like villain from Suicide Squad. And he wasn't interesting at all. Doomsday, Ares and now Steppenwolf. Not a great track record for DC.

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sure...those villains were all pretty bad. but you guys are so focused on the villains in these individual films that you've completely missed the true master villain of the DC movie universe...the one being who is capable of destroying all of our beloved DC characters:

Saw the movie last night, was going to post my review but I wanted to check and see if we're into spoilers yet or still holding off?

I'm no Zach Snyder fan but with what that guy's had happen in his personal life he gets a permanent pass for any bad films.

(I had it jump to the amusing part).

Yeah, that's about 100x better than the original

Didn't think it could be possible, but Snyder/WB/whoever managed to f*** up another DC movie with awesome characters to use. Better than BvS/Suicide Squad at least.

Sad.

Pleasantly surprised with Cyborg.
Loved the Flash.
Gadot IS Wonder Woman.
I thought they finally nailed Superman. He was fantastic.

Steppenwolf truly terrible. I could say more but they would be spoilers.

The story wasn't very good.
The Amazons were amazing and their scenes were some of the best.
The interaction and dialogue between the characters was fantastic. That made it a good popcorn movie for me. I had fun watching it and will see it again.

Bat-fleck was good.
Aquaman was terrible.

CGi in the beginning for mustache gate was awful. It wasn't a problem most of the film.

Lois Lane has put on a few pounds.

LOVED both end credit scenes. Stay until after the credits.

AggieLitigator said:

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Pleasantly surprised with Cyborg. Said no one. Ever
Loved the Flash. Ha! Gay! (get it, because the actor is gay)
Gadot IS Wonder Woman. (Linda Carter says Hold My Beer)
I thought they finally nailed Superman. He was fantastic. Were they made of kryptonite?

Steppenwolf truly terrible. I could say more but they would be spoilers. Great band.

The story wasn't very good.
The Amazons were amazing and their scenes were some of the best.
The interaction and dialogue between the characters was fantastic. That made it a good popcorn movie for me. I had fun watching it and will see it again.

Bat-fleck was good.
Aquaman was terrible. Mother****ing gay fish!

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Steppenwolf. Seriously, his design made him look almost exactly like villain from Suicide Squad. And he wasn't interesting at all. Doomsday, Ares and now Steppenwolf. Not a great track record for DC.

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Lets not forget Lex Luthor and the Joker... Hell, Zod has been my favorite so far and then they turned him into Doomsday.

i think spoilers are allowed here because nobody really cares about the plot.

here's hoping "CGIed the moustache" becomes the new jumped the shark and nuked the fridge.

Nuked the fridge?

MooreTrucker said:

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Nuked the fridge?

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Indiana Jones and the Harrison Ford's Paycheck of Doom. (aka Crystal Skull)

At some point, I'd like to see a discussion of what qualifies as a "good villain" in a comic book movie. It seems like everyone can tell a bad one (Steppenwolf, Enchantress) and everyone can agree on the best ones (TDK Joker, Loki), but there's a lot of wiggle room and ambiguity in there. Almost as if, if it's not Heath Ledger's Joker, it's another bad villain.

This may not be the place for it, but maybe I'll make a thread after JL has been out for a bit.

A good villain is:
a) physically believable. Joker and Loki are just guys. Steppenwolf, Apocalypse, etc. arent.
b) Has a goal that at least on some level makes sense - Joker wants chaos to take down the hypocrisy of the world, Obidah Stone wants Stark to get rich selling arms to various factions, Magneto wants the humans to turn into mutants to level the playing field.
c) A villain must pose a real threat to the main characters or their loved ones: No way you think for a minute any heroes are dying in Justice League. Three are brand new, Wonder Woman is the signature of DC at this point, and you don't really kill Supes or Bats.

MuckRaker96 said:

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A good villain is:
a) physically believable. Joker and Loki are just guys. Steppenwolf, Apocalypse, etc. arent.

Those last two are aliens are something, though, right?

b) Has a goal that at least on some level makes sense - Joker wants chaos to take down the hypocrisy of the world, Obidah Stone wants Stark to get rich selling arms to various factions, Magneto wants the humans to die or turn into mutants to level the playing field.

FIFY

c) A villain must pose a real threat to the main characters or their loved ones: No way you think for a minute any heroes are dying in Justice League. Three are brand new, Wonder Woman is the signature of DC at this point, and you don't really kill Supes or Bats.

MARTHA!!!

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The difference between a good villain and a bad villain is basically the same as the difference between a strong character and a weak one: Do they have motives we can understand? Depth? Does the actor put on a good performance?

For villains, the additional question is, are they a credible threat?

Magneto is, in my opinion, a great villain because he checks these boxes. His motives are incredibly understandable - a holocaust survivor whose faith in humanity was destroyed. He has great depth and internal conflicts that play out on screen, as shown by his friendship with his rival Prof. X. This allows him to engage in compelling arcs where he wavers between being someone you cheer against to someone you cheer for. He's also been portrayed by two amazing actors, and his well-defined powers make him a powerful threat.

Compare that to the much-lampooned Dark elf from Thor 2. His motive is to destroy everyone but we aren't given a compelling reason why, he has zero depth, the performance is utterly forgettable, and I honestly don't remember what powers he had, if any, that made him a threat.

Good villains honestly feel that what they're doing is justified.

Great villains are right.

I think there's also something to be said for the action. Loki is a better villain in Avengers than Thor 1 because the fight choreography in Thor 1 isn't great. He can't beat Thor and we all know it. In the Avengers, he kills a bunch of humans and commands an army. That's a bit more menacing. A bit more memorable, perhaps.

I may have to come up with a formula...

Zod was the protagonist of MoS

In the MCU, there have been a handful of villains that I consider worthy. Loki, obviously. But I'll also throw in Red Skull, Zemo, and the Vulture.

In the DCU (whatever it's called), only really General Zod has been a worthwhile villain. Aries might have been good but the actor portraying him didn't really work for me. Enchantress? Bah! Doomsday? Well, that thing plays a similar role in BvS that he did in the comics, killing Superman, but Doomsday probably should not have been included in BvS. I really like Zimmer's score for the Doomsday sequences, and in fact that entire part of the movie has grown on me since I first watched it, but still, not an overly great villain. Then there's Lex Luthor. This is where the DCU has really dropped the ball IMO. I don't believe Luthor was ever supposed to be insane, yet that's exactly how Eisenberg and Snyder portrayed him. So wrong on all fronts, and the greatest affront that I can find in this entire series. Finally, the Joker. He wasn't in much of Suicide Squad, so there really wasn't much to go on, but what was there tells me that again, the people putting these movies together have completely missed the major DC villains.

I know next to nothing about Steppenwolf, other than he is somehow attached to Darkseid. What I'm seeing here about Steppenwolf being weak does not make me happy, but someone above did indicate they left entertained, and that's my bottom line. When I leave the theater on Sunday, if I am entertained then fine. I would really like to come out feeling blown away, kinda like I felt after leaving viewings of The Winter Soldier, Civil War, or The Avengers. Hoping they bring in someone who actually knows these characters so that when they finally get around to introducing Darkseid, we get the badass that Darkseid is supposed to be.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/weekend-box-office-justice-league-earns-13m-thursday-previews-1059237

A Justice League movie might make less than a Thor movie.

Personally, I think some of y'all are looking for too much in a villain in a comic book movie. Most of the time, they're really not all that fleshed out in the comics either. Some really bad dude or creature shows up and starts wreaking havoc on the earth (just because they can) and the Justice League (Avengers) have to step in and stop them. Some are impervious to certain attacks from the JL (Avengers) and they have to figure out a way to stop him/it.

I'm still chuckling about the post above that said a comic book movie villain has to be physically believable......heh

TajMaballer said:

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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/weekend-box-office-justice-league-earns-13m-thursday-previews-1059237

A Justice League movie might make less than a Thor movie.

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Let's be real though, Ragnarok wasn't par for the course for a Thor movie. Arguably a top 5 MCU entry.

FTACO97 said:

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Personally, I think some of y'all are looking for too much in a villain in a comic book movie. Most of the time, they're really not all that fleshed out in the comics either. Some really bad dude or creature shows up and starts wreaking havoc on the earth (just because they can) and the Justice League (Avengers) have to step in and stop them. Some are impervious to certain attacks from the JL (Avengers) and they have to figure out a way to stop him/it.

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This is fair. Someone like the Shocker doesn't need to give a monologue, he just has to look cool and be effective.

I think the Winter Soldier / Hydra were extremely effective villains in Cap 2. Twist reveal, understandable ideology, threatening to actual characters, "they're everywhere" kind of feeling. And a large part of that was just because Bucky looked sick and kicked a lot of ass.

I wanted Dormammu in film because of his design, and they mostly delivered. He's not top-tier but he served his purpose. Kaecilius, though - he could have looked a lot cooler.