I trust you, I guess when thinking of what's to come after Nicole, Mia, and Daria are gone, that's where I start to worry just a bit with a true #1. But if she helps with doubles, I'll take it. Maybe she's a Tatiana clone
Women's Tennis 2024/2025
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Last: 34 min ago by frankie00
a 10.00 UTR at 17 is pretty good. Only goes up from here!
yes! gianna was one of the highest UTRs we had and she couldn't win at line 6 consistently. I bet Anna is SOLID!bigfoot10s said:
Man we are freaking spoiled.
Our coaches see something in her that they like. I know everyone sees the UTR and doesn't think they're any good.
I'll go out on a limb here and say she will be elite. Coaches will develop.
Reminder on UTR: Gianna was almost an 11 when she came as a freshman. Now she's a 9
well if you remember, the scholarship limit changes next year. A school can fund up to 10 scholarships for tennis, but the team size is also is capped at 10. Maybe Mark with his success will be funded more than the 8 scholarships that we have now
when those 3 leave, that's when you see big recruiting moves --- a lot more to play with $$!Ag4eva95 said:
I trust you, I guess when thinking of what's to come after Nicole, Mia, and Daria are gone, that's where I start to worry just a bit with a true #1. But if she helps with doubles, I'll take it. Maybe she's a Tatiana clone
Anna comes on campus last week, maybe they speak a little Russian, and then Daria clinches on Sunday.
bigfoot10s said:
Man we are freaking spoiled.
Our coaches see something in her that they like. I know everyone sees the UTR and doesn't think they're any good.
I'll go out on a limb here and say she will be elite. Coaches will develop.
Reminder on UTR: Gianna was almost an 11 when she came as a freshman. Now she's a 9
We are spoiled, but if we observe our recent recruiting vs. other top programs there is a gap.
Even LSU signed two 11+ UTRs since our national title run. Immediately made them competitive.
That said, it's just like football. Higher UTR / blue chips will hit more often. There will always be notable exceptions.
I would support this program even if it was full of walk-ons, but it's easy to see we have taken a step back in recruiting. It's been almost two years since Lulu committed? Think of the run up until that point.
That said, she seems like a good pickup with lots of upside at 17. Excited for her to join.
If she was an American then she would be a blue chip recruit then everyone would be far more excited about this. It's not about how good they are now, but how good will they be.
I also hoped we'd add someone better, but I was frustrated at the time because I knew how good Ava was. I think she'd be playing no lower than 4 for us but let's say your earlier assessment was right and she barely cracked the lineup. Can you imagine adding a solid #2 from a legit top 10 team to the bottom of our lineup? Combined with her All-American doubles skills I think she would make us the clear-cut championship favorite.Aggie Tennis said:Harry Dunne said:Who was it that was saying losing Ava was not a big deal and she probably wouldn't have played in our top 6?frankie00 said:
Without overlooking our next two matches, both at home vs Arkansas and OU, Auburn is our next away match. Should be interesting with their ranking, Ava and Jordan.
I was admittedly one that thought we would replace Ava with someone better. Our other transfers were such massive adds - Carson, Nicole, Salma, and I thought we could add someone that caliber. Almost did (Hovde), but yes, she'd certainly help us right now.
I guess we simply aimed for the home run and ultimately fell a little short without sufficient time to get someone enrolled.
Happy for Lizanne!
On another note, lot of people treat UTR like it's the golden standard but it's no better than the SAT is at predicting success. Bigfoot's Gianna example is perfect. She scrapped and chipped her way into being a great junior player, but that 11+ UTR as a junior did not translate to high-level college tennis. Some weren't high on Ava because she did not have an amazing UTR, but she was a solid #1 for a solid SEC team and an AA doubles player. That tells you a lot more than UTR.
Time for people to stop thinking they know more about a player based on a number that they don't even know the formula for than a national championship coach knows based on not only that but a bunch of other factors and a lifetime of experience evaluating players.
Lucciana Perez wasn't all that high of a recruit when she committed. Was a low 10utr and ranked just barely inside of the itf top 100 then she made the finals of the French open a few months later and sky rocketed. Mary was a low 10 UTR when she committed and was a mid range blue chip recruit. Have some faith in one of the best coaches at Texas A&M and perhaps the best coach in college tennis.
Good post. Gianna was above 11 UTR at one point!bigfoot10s said:
Man we are freaking spoiled.
Our coaches see something in her that they like. I know everyone sees the UTR and doesn't think they're any good.
I'll go out on a limb here and say she will be elite. Coaches will develop.
Reminder on UTR: Gianna was almost an 11 when she came as a freshman. Now she's a 9
10 is great for a 17 y/o and if Mark likes her then I like her but again, that's against a bunch of 16-17 y/o and any metric that compares you to your current competition isn't a reliable comparison against a different group.
11.4 UTR Liv Hovde playing 3 for Duke was only up 7-6, 3-2 against a 9.1 UTR from Boston College and was starting a 3rd set against Syracuse in her only 2 college matches. She's great and only going to get better, but college is a different animal.
Chruchie said:
well if you remember, the scholarship limit changes next year. A school can fund up to 10 scholarships for tennis, but the team size is also is capped at 10. Maybe Mark with his success will be funded more than the 8 scholarships that we have now
Last I heard, we are not getting the extra 2 scholarships. That could have changed, but doubtful.
Harry Dunne said:I also hoped we'd add someone better, but I was frustrated at the time because I knew how good Ava was. I think she'd be playing no lower than 4 for us but let's say your earlier assessment was right and she barely cracked the lineup. Can you imagine adding a solid #2 from a legit top 10 team to the bottom of our lineup? Combined with her All-American doubles skills I think she would make us the clear-cut championship favorite.Aggie Tennis said:Harry Dunne said:Who was it that was saying losing Ava was not a big deal and she probably wouldn't have played in our top 6?frankie00 said:
Without overlooking our next two matches, both at home vs Arkansas and OU, Auburn is our next away match. Should be interesting with their ranking, Ava and Jordan.
I was admittedly one that thought we would replace Ava with someone better. Our other transfers were such massive adds - Carson, Nicole, Salma, and I thought we could add someone that caliber. Almost did (Hovde), but yes, she'd certainly help us right now.
I guess we simply aimed for the home run and ultimately fell a little short without sufficient time to get someone enrolled.
Happy for Lizanne!
On another note, lot of people treat UTR like it's the golden standard but it's no better than the SAT is at predicting success. Bigfoot's Gianna example is perfect. She scrapped and chipped her way into being a great junior player, but that 11+ UTR as a junior did not translate to high-level college tennis. Some weren't high on Ava because she did not have an amazing UTR, but she was a solid #1 for a solid SEC team and an AA doubles player. That tells you a lot more than UTR.
Time for people to stop thinking they know more about a player based on a number that they don't even know the formula for than a national championship coach knows based on not only that but a bunch of other factors and a lifetime of experience evaluating players.
Agree UTR is far from perfect. Doesn't take into account potential, matchups, surface, injuries, recent form, etc. But overall - it is pretty reliable. It's not coincidence that Georgia has the highest team UTR this year and we had the highest team UTR last year. Same thing for the top men's teams - TCU, Wake, Texas.
Ava would help us singles and doubles - especially in doubles. Fully agree with you there. But I think she'd be playing behind Daria in singles.
At the time I went back and looked and her match results for the past year. She played high in singles and gets good wins occasionally, but has many head scratchers. I think Jordan is stacking currently and that Okutoyi is better based on results and the eye test.
Even this year - 0 signature wins in singles. Daria simply has better wins.
The more your team is stacked, the harder it is to recruit the big dogs. They all want to play line 1 or 2; you aren't going to get many 11 UTRs okay playing lines 3 and below.Aggie Tennis said:bigfoot10s said:
Man we are freaking spoiled.
Our coaches see something in her that they like. I know everyone sees the UTR and doesn't think they're any good.
I'll go out on a limb here and say she will be elite. Coaches will develop.
Reminder on UTR: Gianna was almost an 11 when she came as a freshman. Now she's a 9
We are spoiled, but if we observe our recent recruiting vs. other top programs there is a gap.
Even LSU signed two 11+ UTRs since our national title run. Immediately made them competitive.
That said, it's just like football. Higher UTR / blue chips will hit more often. There will always be notable exceptions.
I would support this program even if it was full of walk-ons, but it's easy to see we have taken a step back in recruiting. It's been almost two years since Lulu committed? Think of the run up until that point.
That said, she seems like a good pickup with lots of upside at 17. Excited for her to join.
Fully agree that in the big picture it's useful but you're comparing a team to a team not an individual an individual.
Even in college, you can't compare the UTR of the top of the lineup player to the bottom of the lineup player and think it's apples to apples because part of UTR formula considers the quality of your competition. Just like ITA ranking, it's going to be nearly impossible to get a high UTR playing lower in the lineup.
Bigtime's Luciana example is good because you can't compare a South American UTR to a USA UTR. She was better than her UTR, but probably played a lot of watered-down tournaments.
I know it feels nice as a fan to feel like you have insider knowledge and that makes you feel like you've got valid criticism, but back to my main point - none of us know as much as Mark does and if his decisions diverge from what you think he should have done, you're probably wrong.
I mean, we are all tennis Einsteins compared to the idiot Monday morning QBs on the football forum that think they know more than Elko because they were second team all district OL in high school, but still, let's be real.
Even in college, you can't compare the UTR of the top of the lineup player to the bottom of the lineup player and think it's apples to apples because part of UTR formula considers the quality of your competition. Just like ITA ranking, it's going to be nearly impossible to get a high UTR playing lower in the lineup.
Bigtime's Luciana example is good because you can't compare a South American UTR to a USA UTR. She was better than her UTR, but probably played a lot of watered-down tournaments.
I know it feels nice as a fan to feel like you have insider knowledge and that makes you feel like you've got valid criticism, but back to my main point - none of us know as much as Mark does and if his decisions diverge from what you think he should have done, you're probably wrong.
I mean, we are all tennis Einsteins compared to the idiot Monday morning QBs on the football forum that think they know more than Elko because they were second team all district OL in high school, but still, let's be real.
Harry Dunne said:
Fully agree that in the big picture it's useful but you're comparing a team to a team not an individual an individual.
Even in college, you can't compare the UTR of the top of the lineup player to the bottom of the lineup player and think it's apples to apples because part of UTR formula considers the quality of your competition. Just like ITA ranking, it's going to be nearly impossible to get a high UTR playing lower in the lineup.
Bigtime's Luciana example is good because you can't compare a South American UTR to a USA UTR. She was better than her UTR, but probably played a lot of watered-down tournaments.
I know it feels nice as a fan to feel like you have insider knowledge and that makes you feel like you've got valid criticism, but back to my main point - none of us know as much as Mark does and if his decisions diverge from what you think he should have done, you're probably wrong.
I mean, we are all tennis Einsteins compared to the idiot Monday morning QBs on the football forum that think they know more than Elko because they were second team all district OL in high school, but still, let's be real.
All valid points.
My POV in summary:
-I will always support this team and coaches. It's my favorite team.
-Mark is the A&M Tennis coach GOAT.
-Mary is the A&M Tennis player GOAT.
-Last year was the A&M Tennis team GOAT.
-We should enjoy this year with this amazing team.
-Some may not want to admit it, but there is a clear trend change in our recruiting. Lot of possible reasons - NIL, Jordan, Facilities, AD support, competition, etc.
-Debating all this stuff is what passionate fans do. It doesn't mean we think we are smarter than our national championship winning players and coaches.
-I wish we had all the knuckleheads football, baseball, basketball have. Maybe we'd have indoor courts!
Great post. Totally agree and always enjoy the back and forth.
I get defensive about Mark because I think he has always been extremely underrated. Jordan was very good but he also liked to take a lot of credit and Mark was happy to let him have it.
I think we are about to find out how good Mark is. And by the way, James is no slouch.
I get defensive about Mark because I think he has always been extremely underrated. Jordan was very good but he also liked to take a lot of credit and Mark was happy to let him have it.
I think we are about to find out how good Mark is. And by the way, James is no slouch.
Let's not forget that Jennifer Jackson signed and was originally going to start this spring as well. She had some injuries and is starting in the fall. There have been a lot of variables that have all unfortunately worked out not to the team's advantage. Can't win every recruiting battle. A lot of factors involved and likely far more than any of us realize.
Anyone know if Jovic (17 year old that Mary split the title with this past weekend) is signed with anyone, or if she's just going pro?RodgerDodger said:
Let's not forget that Jennifer Jackson signed and was originally going to start this spring as well. She had some injuries and is starting in the fall. There have been a lot of variables that have all unfortunately worked out not to the team's advantage. Can't win every recruiting battle. A lot of factors involved and likely far more than any of us realize.
Jovic is too young to sign with anyone. Class of 2026.
her UTR is 11.88 LOL - she may not make it to college.aggietennisfan said:
Jovic is too young to sign with anyone. Class of 2026.
One of many reasons I admire Nicole.aggiedrjdub said:The more your team is stacked, the harder it is to recruit the big dogs. They all want to play line 1 or 2; you aren't going to get many 11 UTRs okay playing lines 3 and below.Aggie Tennis said:bigfoot10s said:
Man we are freaking spoiled.
Our coaches see something in her that they like. I know everyone sees the UTR and doesn't think they're any good.
I'll go out on a limb here and say she will be elite. Coaches will develop.
Reminder on UTR: Gianna was almost an 11 when she came as a freshman. Now she's a 9
We are spoiled, but if we observe our recent recruiting vs. other top programs there is a gap.
Even LSU signed two 11+ UTRs since our national title run. Immediately made them competitive.
That said, it's just like football. Higher UTR / blue chips will hit more often. There will always be notable exceptions.
I would support this program even if it was full of walk-ons, but it's easy to see we have taken a step back in recruiting. It's been almost two years since Lulu committed? Think of the run up until that point.
That said, she seems like a good pickup with lots of upside at 17. Excited for her to join.
Going from #1 at Texas (and Big 12 player of the year as a Freshman) to #2/#3 at A&M. One of the most impactful transfers in A&M history across all sports.
She's won a title, has another chance this year, and will lead our team at #1 next year. She saw the big picture.
Easy to see why we've gotten spoiled!
Her sister is a junior at UCLA that played sparingly at #6 last year, but hasn't played in a dual match so far this spring.
Iva's match against Mary in Tyler in the fall was basically for a spot in th AOMD. That won her $125,000.
Iva's match against Mary in Tyler in the fall was basically for a spot in th AOMD. That won her $125,000.
So there were a few videos of Anna for recruiting, I can see why the coaches recruited her. Very technically sound, powerful. Like to play the net. While recent results show she hasn't quite yet broke through, she's competed with the best of the best. As others have said, her best tennis is still ahead of her. I like the pickup, I can see her immediately becoming one of our better doubles players
Now if our administration would only see the big picture and provide the facilities these teams deserve.Aggie Tennis said:
One of many reasons I admire Nicole.
Going from #1 at Texas (and Big 12 player of the year as a Freshman) to #2/#3 at A&M. One of the most impactful transfers in A&M history across all sports.
She's won a title, has another chance this year, and will lead our team at #1 next year. She saw the big picture.
Easy to see why we've gotten spoiled!
Really hope this changes.bigfoot10s said:Chruchie said:
well if you remember, the scholarship limit changes next year. A school can fund up to 10 scholarships for tennis, but the team size is also is capped at 10. Maybe Mark with his success will be funded more than the 8 scholarships that we have now
Last I heard, we are not getting the extra 2 scholarships. That could have changed, but doubtful.
Texas will fully fund women’s tennis with 10 scholarships and men will double from 4.5 to 9. https://t.co/urNftV3gzL
— John (@JTweetsTennis) February 28, 2025
Sooo, the sips will fund 10 scholarships but we are sticking with 8 ?? I can hear Mark talking to the AD ... "Sir, we won the national title last year. We are already at a disadvantage with no indoor facility and you are sticking with only 8 scholarships? Are you handicapping us on purpose or do you just not care? There IS room for an indoor facility next to the current courts. The RV lot to the south. Mt. Aggie to the southwest. I'll help build the facility! "
"Mark, sorry about that but I have to end this meeting, I have a tour of the indoor track and field facility scheduled in 30 minutes. Just do what you can with what you have. Good luck. Bye."
Personal note: I took skiing as one of my four 'PE' courses. I thought it was funny for A&M to have a skiing class but the wetted down astroturf worked pretty darn well. But it IS a small facility and could easily be rebuilt somewhere else if necessary.
"Mark, sorry about that but I have to end this meeting, I have a tour of the indoor track and field facility scheduled in 30 minutes. Just do what you can with what you have. Good luck. Bye."
Personal note: I took skiing as one of my four 'PE' courses. I thought it was funny for A&M to have a skiing class but the wetted down astroturf worked pretty darn well. But it IS a small facility and could easily be rebuilt somewhere else if necessary.
Match Day !!
BTHO Arkansas !!!
Am assuming that Mary is back, sure hope so!
BTHO Arkansas !!!
Am assuming that Mary is back, sure hope so!
Trev is too much of a penny pincher. If someone isn't working out, cut ties immediately rather than flounder around and put the program in a bigger hole. You may save money in your budget, but you're destroying your intangible goodwill and brand.
Agree. I always find it laughable that we talk about building champions in every sport, but then have the bias in how we make decisions. Our strongest sports right now are the ones that get the least amount of attention from our athletic department. What could A&M be if that were not the case.TRM said:
Trev is too much of a penny pincher. If someone isn't working out, cut ties immediately rather than flounder around and put the program in a bigger hole. You may save money in your budget, but you're destroying your intangible goodwill and brand.
#build the indoor facility!!!
TRM said:
Trev is too much of a penny pincher. If someone isn't working out, cut ties immediately rather than flounder around and put the program in a bigger hole. You may save money in your budget, but you're destroying your intangible goodwill and brand.
I don't understand the mentality. Our goal is to win championships, not have a pretty P&L.
If we don't match this, Texas will absolutely dominate. Look at those track numbers.
I'm glad it's out there. Surely we will respond.
Sounds just like current public education.
Do more with less.
Do more with less.
There is now more banter on social media about tu selling scholarships in non revenue sports in exchange for NIL funds. Expect this to become the norm and for tu to continue to find workarounds for their big money donors.
Mt. Aggie is derelict and not in use so that wouldn't even be an issue.
Even better! I took the skiing class a long time ago and I thinnk it was just a wooden structure surfaced with astroturf. How long has it been out of action?Aggie71013 said:
Mt. Aggie is derelict and not in use so that wouldn't even be an issue.
I am not surprised, of course. A lot of things have changed on campus since my day. A ton of new buildings all over, especially west campus and in the Northgate area. Many old dorms torn down, new dorms built, apartments all over the place, etc. But I think all the buildings I had classes in are still there. Had a few classes in the old admin building, two German classes and I think a poly sci class. No AC, of course. Many, many more students now, that's a huge change.
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