hph6203 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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If you don't think that Jordan and Bird worked hard to be in shape and develop skills you don't know ball.

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The quote is that they were singularly focused on working hard, not that they merely worked hard. Are you under the impression that a guy that made All-NBA 5 times doesn't work hard? Just rolls out of bed and is one of the top 3 players in the league between drinking beer?

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shack009 said:

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hph6203 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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If you don't think that Jordan and Bird worked hard to be in shape and develop skills you don't know ball.

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The quote is that they were singularly focused on working hard, not that they merely worked hard. Are you under the impression that a guy that made All-NBA 5 times doesn't work hard? Just rolls out of bed and is one of the top 3 players in the league between drinking beer?

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I mean, this actually does describe Luka lol. He's extremely gifted, and he spends more time practicing trick shots than he does trying to be well-conditioned and healthy. He does that because he's so good at basketball that he's bored with it. He's been a really good professional basketball player for 10 years now. He uses regular season games as his conditioning. Shaq did the same thing, but it's definitely different for centers. Luka is also going to spend the week+ between every regular season and the playoffs getting out of shape again. He just did it last season.

Larry Bird also played against guys who had second jobs lol. The league is better than it has ever been. Every playoff team has multiple wings who can make Luka work really hard offensively and also not allow him to take possessions off on defense. OKC's 5th, 6th, and 7th best players can all guard Luka really well. Luka had 16 points on 15 shots with 6 turnovers against OKC this year. Boston's starting 1-4 dogged him on both sides of the court. The Rockets could throw Thompson/Brooks/Eason/Jabari at him all game and make his life miserable.

Luka and Jokic are completely different players. Jokic doesn't have to work as hard because he's 4 inches taller and doesn't run the offense with the same style that Luka does. He also gets to guard guys who aren't as dynamic. Jokic can roll out of bed with a double double just because of his size.

I disagree with Trucker that Luka is guaranteed any championship in his career. He has to have a very specific type of team around him. I think that Dallas was building that team in the short term. I don't think LAL has that team this year. Luka needs to work to be in much better shape and not be hurt and or exhausted for June games.

Watching some highlights of Luka from several years ago is wild. He was getting putback dunks over dudes. According to the NBA shot tracker, he had 25 dunks in 18-19. His dunks had consistently decreased every year and they fell off a cliff to 2 all last season. Less than Kyrie. Something is going on there. Why is a 6'7" guy entering his athletic prime pretty much unable to dunk? It's not like it's a choice he's making. He is very clearly less mobile/agile/bouncy than he was just a couple years ago. He couldn't dunk a breakaway in the all star game last year. I don't think that's nothing. He's having a harder time keeping guys from getting an offensive rebound if they want it. The league is getting more athletic and he's getting less athletic and more injured.

He's still incredible at basketball. It was still a dumb trade. But I think people are ignoring some hard truths. Paying Luka over 40% of the salary cap still had incredible risks.

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https://t.co/EUOKDJdyQg pic.twitter.com/Bk8AKwZEnw

— Bobby Karalla (@bobbykaralla) February 9, 2025

PatAg said:

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shack009 said:

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hph6203 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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If you don't think that Jordan and Bird worked hard to be in shape and develop skills you don't know ball.

---

The quote is that they were singularly focused on working hard, not that they merely worked hard. Are you under the impression that a guy that made All-NBA 5 times doesn't work hard? Just rolls out of bed and is one of the top 3 players in the league between drinking beer?

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I mean, this actually does describe Luka lol. He's extremely gifted, and he spends more time practicing trick shots than he does trying to be well-conditioned and healthy. He does that because he's so good at basketball that he's bored with it. He's been a really good professional basketball player for 10 years now. He uses regular season games as his conditioning. Shaq did the same thing, but it's definitely different for centers. Luka is also going to spend the week+ between every regular season and the playoffs getting out of shape again. He just did it last season.

Larry Bird also played against guys who had second jobs lol. The league is better than it has ever been. Every playoff team has multiple wings who can make Luka work really hard offensively and also not allow him to take possessions off on defense. OKC's 5th, 6th, and 7th best players can all guard Luka really well. Luka had 16 points on 15 shots with 6 turnovers against OKC this year. Boston's starting 1-4 dogged him on both sides of the court. The Rockets could throw Thompson/Brooks/Eason/Jabari at him all game and make his life miserable.

Luka and Jokic are completely different players. Jokic doesn't have to work as hard because he's 4 inches taller and doesn't run the offense with the same style that Luka does. He also gets to guard guys who aren't as dynamic. Jokic can roll out of bed with a double double just because of his size.

I disagree with Trucker that Luka is guaranteed any championship in his career. He has to have a very specific type of team around him. I think that Dallas was building that team in the short term. I don't think LAL has that team this year. Luka needs to work to be in much better shape and not be hurt and or exhausted for June games.

Watching some highlights of Luka from several years ago is wild. He was getting putback dunks over dudes. According to the NBA shot tracker, he had 25 dunks in 18-19. His dunks had consistently decreased every year and they fell off a cliff to 2 all last season. Less than Kyrie. Something is going on there. Why is a 6'7" guy entering his athletic prime pretty much unable to dunk? It's not like it's a choice he's making. He is very clearly less mobile/agile/bouncy than he was just a couple years ago. He couldn't dunk a breakaway in the all star game last year. I don't think that's nothing. He's having a harder time keeping guys from getting an offensive rebound if they want it. The league is getting more athletic and he's getting less athletic and more injured.

He's still incredible at basketball. It was still a dumb trade. But I think people are ignoring some hard truths. Paying Luka over 40% of the salary cap still had incredible risks.

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You know what you are right, I cant believe anyone even remotely agrees with trading Luka.

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Guitarsoup said:

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And we don't all know what was happening behind the scenes that hasn't been said for something this drastic to happen.

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shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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And we don't all know what was happening behind the scenes that hasn't been said for something this drastic to happen.

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I've said it before, but I think it's fair to assume (nave not to assume) that the trade is evidence that there were issues behind the scenes. People are reacting to the trade in a vacuum and have completely turned their brains off.

You just see/hear little things now starting to come out about Luka's presence or lack thereof, Kidd being in on the idea, and players not being too saddened by the move.

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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It is wild that people are trying to pretend that Luka's conditioning and weight aren't issues post trade, when everyone was complaining about it pre-trade.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32818403/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-admits-having-issue-weight-conditioning

Luka himself admitted it was an issue way back in 2021 when he showed up to training camp in the 260s for the second straight year.

Here is MCSwag talking about it last year: https://texags.com/forums/52/topics/3385161/replies/67467379




Look at the decline of Luka's attempts at the rim year by year. He's not getting to the basket like he did anymore and less than 1/10th of his shots were at the rim, while his sophomore year a quarter of his shots were.

It is ok to admit that Luka had major consistent, lingering problems and also that the Mavs shouldn't have traded him for that package. And we don't all know what was happening behind the scenes that hasn't been said for something this drastic to happen.

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Luka Doncic is the kind of player who you keep and fire EVERYONE else before you resort to trading.

If he's the problem, you prove it by exhausting every other option first.

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Luka Doncic is the kind of player who you keep and fire EVERYONE else before you resort to trading.

If he's the problem, you prove it by exhausting every other option first.

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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shack009 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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It is wild that people are trying to pretend that Luka's conditioning and weight aren't issues post trade, when everyone was complaining about it pre-trade.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32818403/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-admits-having-issue-weight-conditioning

Luka himself admitted it was an issue way back in 2021 when he showed up to training camp in the 260s for the second straight year.

Here is MCSwag talking about it last year: https://texags.com/forums/52/topics/3385161/replies/67467379




Look at the decline of Luka's attempts at the rim year by year. He's not getting to the basket like he did anymore and less than 1/10th of his shots were at the rim, while his sophomore year a quarter of his shots were.

It is ok to admit that Luka had major consistent, lingering problems and also that the Mavs shouldn't have traded him for that package. And we don't all know what was happening behind the scenes that hasn't been said for something this drastic to happen.

---

Luka Doncic is the kind of player who you keep and fire EVERYONE else before you resort to trading.

If he's the problem, you prove it by exhausting every other option first.

---

Everybody agrees with that. But there were cracks in the foundation and people are acting blind to that.

The trade was ******ed. It's also weird that people have completely forgotten that there were/are real questions.

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It's not that they've forgotten, it's that unless someone is arguing that is a justification for trading him it's just meaningless cope. There is no other reason for bringing it up in this context.

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shack009 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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shack009 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

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It is wild that people are trying to pretend that Luka's conditioning and weight aren't issues post trade, when everyone was complaining about it pre-trade.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32818403/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-admits-having-issue-weight-conditioning

Luka himself admitted it was an issue way back in 2021 when he showed up to training camp in the 260s for the second straight year.

Here is MCSwag talking about it last year: https://texags.com/forums/52/topics/3385161/replies/67467379




Look at the decline of Luka's attempts at the rim year by year. He's not getting to the basket like he did anymore and less than 1/10th of his shots were at the rim, while his sophomore year a quarter of his shots were.

It is ok to admit that Luka had major consistent, lingering problems and also that the Mavs shouldn't have traded him for that package. And we don't all know what was happening behind the scenes that hasn't been said for something this drastic to happen.

---

Luka Doncic is the kind of player who you keep and fire EVERYONE else before you resort to trading.

If he's the problem, you prove it by exhausting every other option first.

---

Everybody agrees with that. But there were cracks in the foundation and people are acting blind to that.

The trade was ******ed. It's also weird that people have completely forgotten that there were/are real questions.

---

It's not that they've forgotten, it's that unless someone is arguing that is a justification for trading him it's just meaningless cope. There is no other reason for bringing it up in this context.

---

People are acting like, and some have even stated, that Luka is guaranteed to win at least one championship in his career.

Pointing out reasons why that may not be the case, all of which are things we as fans of Luka and the Mavs have pointed out previously, is justified.

Of course it's copium, on some level. But it's not made up fairy tale nonsense either.

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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shack009 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

shack009 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

It is wild that people are trying to pretend that Luka's conditioning and weight aren't issues post trade, when everyone was complaining about it pre-trade.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32818403/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-admits-having-issue-weight-conditioning

Luka himself admitted it was an issue way back in 2021 when he showed up to training camp in the 260s for the second straight year.

Here is MCSwag talking about it last year: https://texags.com/forums/52/topics/3385161/replies/67467379




Look at the decline of Luka's attempts at the rim year by year. He's not getting to the basket like he did anymore and less than 1/10th of his shots were at the rim, while his sophomore year a quarter of his shots were.

It is ok to admit that Luka had major consistent, lingering problems and also that the Mavs shouldn't have traded him for that package. And we don't all know what was happening behind the scenes that hasn't been said for something this drastic to happen.

---

Luka Doncic is the kind of player who you keep and fire EVERYONE else before you resort to trading.

If he's the problem, you prove it by exhausting every other option first.

---

Everybody agrees with that. But there were cracks in the foundation and people are acting blind to that.

The trade was ******ed. It's also weird that people have completely forgotten that there were/are real questions.

---

It's not that they've forgotten, it's that unless someone is arguing that is a justification for trading him it's just meaningless cope. There is no other reason for bringing it up in this context.

---

People are acting like, and some have even stated, that Luka is guaranteed to win at least one championship in his career.

Pointing out reasons why that may not be the case, all of which are things we as fans of Luka and the Mavs have pointed out previously, is justified.

Of course it's copium, on some level. But it's not made up fairy tale nonsense either.

---

It would be shocking if he never won a title, full stop. The list of players of his caliber who go their entire career without winning a ring can be counted on one hand, and most of them are because they had the misfortune of playing in the same era as Jordan.

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hph6203 said:

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You don't "yeah, but" stupid decisions.

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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shack009 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

shack009 said:

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

It is wild that people are trying to pretend that Luka's conditioning and weight aren't issues post trade, when everyone was complaining about it pre-trade.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32818403/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-admits-having-issue-weight-conditioning

Luka himself admitted it was an issue way back in 2021 when he showed up to training camp in the 260s for the second straight year.

Here is MCSwag talking about it last year: https://texags.com/forums/52/topics/3385161/replies/67467379




Look at the decline of Luka's attempts at the rim year by year. He's not getting to the basket like he did anymore and less than 1/10th of his shots were at the rim, while his sophomore year a quarter of his shots were.

It is ok to admit that Luka had major consistent, lingering problems and also that the Mavs shouldn't have traded him for that package. And we don't all know what was happening behind the scenes that hasn't been said for something this drastic to happen.

---

Luka Doncic is the kind of player who you keep and fire EVERYONE else before you resort to trading.

If he's the problem, you prove it by exhausting every other option first.

---

Everybody agrees with that. But there were cracks in the foundation and people are acting blind to that.

The trade was ******ed. It's also weird that people have completely forgotten that there were/are real questions.

---

It's not that they've forgotten, it's that unless someone is arguing that is a justification for trading him it's just meaningless cope. There is no other reason for bringing it up in this context.

---

People are acting like, and some have even stated, that Luka is guaranteed to win at least one championship in his career.

Pointing out reasons why that may not be the case, all of which are things we as fans of Luka and the Mavs have pointed out previously, is justified.

Of course it's copium, on some level. But it's not made up fairy tale nonsense either.

---

It would be shocking if he never won a title, full stop. The list of players of his caliber who go their entire career without winning a ring can be counted on one hand, and most of them are because they had the misfortune of playing in the same era as Jordan.

---

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

It is wild that people are trying to pretend that Luka's conditioning and weight aren't issues post trade, when everyone was complaining about it pre-trade.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32818403/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-admits-having-issue-weight-conditioning

Luka himself admitted it was an issue way back in 2021 when he showed up to training camp in the 260s for the second straight year.

Here is MCSwag talking about it last year: https://texags.com/forums/52/topics/3385161/replies/67467379




Look at the decline of Luka's attempts at the rim year by year. He's not getting to the basket like he did anymore and less than 1/10th of his shots were at the rim, while his sophomore year a quarter of his shots were.

It is ok to admit that Luka had major consistent, lingering problems and also that the Mavs shouldn't have traded him for that package. And we don't all know what was happening behind the scenes that hasn't been said for something this drastic to happen.

---

Luka Doncic is the kind of player who you keep and fire EVERYONE else before you resort to trading.

If he's the problem, you prove it by exhausting every other option first.

---

dave94 said:

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Signs of decline, leading all major stat lines in the playoffs last year.

Give me a ******* break

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Trucker 96 said:

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"Players not being too sad". What guys like Kyrie described this week was a literal grieving process lol.

Read an article on substack that talked with a Mavs analytics guy who was there 3 years, 2 before Nico and 1 overlapped with Nico. Nico never liked Luka's analytics and was interested in trading back then. Obviously Cuban was never going to let that happen. But thru that lens, not surprising he's gone less than a year later without seeing what they built around him could produce.

The conditioning stuff is a lot of cover.

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