Don't try to compare KG to KAT..

That's ignoring everything about who KG was as a competitor. A literals competitive maniac

It's still a fact that that remains one of the most inept franchises there has ever been. KG may have been an elite competitor, but he still only made it past the first round once and missed multiple playoffs.

If you have to win now because of the draft situation, you have to make moves, and long term, the 27yo KAT looks a lot better than Beal or Lilliard and their bloated contracts.

Guitarsoup said:

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Lots of talk about KAT being moved.

Would y'all move KPJ+Smith+4 for KAT?

Still leaves big cap room to get Harden or Kyrie or whatever.

Use #20 on a big wing/d&3 guy.


Harden
Green
Eason/Kmart
KAT
Sengun

Solid foundation

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Could be the worst defensive lineup in the league.

Believe in Ime!

I distrust your motives now… Spur…

Woods Ag said:

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I distrust your motives now… Spur…

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It's not about that at all. But many of you guys seem to want Harden back, so it's baffling that KAT's defense and winningness would be a deal breaker.

Finding a guy with KAT's talent at 27yo isn't easy and I think you can buy low after an injury-plagued year and the TPup's indefensible Gobert trade. Gives you an All-NBA player at a position of need.

What other All-NBA players under-30 do you think you could get for the same package?

I think you really want to do it anyways.

Woods Ag said:

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I can't take you serious anymore after comparing him to KG.

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Don't take my words out of context, thats disingenuous. I simply pointed out that KG wasn't a winner in Minnesota, too. No one is, so I don't really hold that against the player. I think in a better situation with a better franchise, teammates, and coach, players can have completely different perceptions on who they are.

I never compared them as players. I compared their ****ty situation with a ****ty team and ****ty franchise in Minnesota, and that was blatantly obvious.

My mistake then. I was banned for telling some corona bro he was ******ed when you posted that initial trade or I would have piped in sooner.

Hard pass on that trade. I want to see Jabari at least another 2 years more so than I do Green or anyone else on the Rockets. He's the one I'm holding on to unless someone offers a kings ransom. I'd only let Green go for some great return, as well.

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If we are playing this game, I'd like to point out you also minced my words.

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I didn't mince your words, though.

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I didn't say KAT isn't a winner, I said he isn't a "winning basketball player". What I mean by that is he doesn't make plays conducive to winning. He doesn't put enough effort into defense, he is happy to chuck lazy 3s, he lacks consistency in focus, he isn't in great shape and he is prone to turnovers.

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Thanks for clarifying. I don't necessarily agree with all your statements. I agree he isn't a great defender, but his advance stats on defense aren't awful, either.

Chucking up lazy threes? He's hit over 40% of his threes over the last 6 seasons. You want guys like that to take lots of threes. Plus 97% of his threes are assisted, so it isn't like he is just dribbling around then stepping back to launch it. They are catch and shoot threes, which is a huge bonus if you big guy can threaten with that as well as in the post.

Over the past 5 seasons, he has averaged 24/11/4 with 2 stocks and just 3.1 turnovers.

I don't agree that turnovers is a huge problem for him. His turnover rate is 13.8% over that time. Durant was 13.4% this year and 13.0 over 5 years.

Harden was at 16.3% turnover rate this year and 16.2% over 5 years.

If you want to compare to other high-usage bigs, Joker was 17% turnover rate this year and 15.3% over 5 years.

Giannis was 13.2% this year and 13.3% over 5 years.

Is he out of shape? He isn't Zion level of fat, that's for sure.

He is an efficient scorer, good passer, and good rebounder that has played with ****ty teammates and ****ty coaches. He's never gonna be a KG, AD, or Jokic, but he is a solid 24/10 guy that plays decent rim defense (-4.5%, 78th percentile) and is an All-NBA 3rd Team-level guy.

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KG was basically the opposite of that in every way except the fact they played in the same city. The closest modern day comparison to KG is probably Mobley....who we should have drafted.

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KG always knew his bread and butter was defense and grit. Plus KG is just built different than 99.9% of NBA players. KAT is a much more talented/well rounded offensive player, but obviously doesn't have the motor of a guy like KG or Kobe or Jordan. Not many do.

He's not even a more talented offensive player... He's not in any way better than KG was. He puts up numbers bc he plays in a time when everyone's number are elevated bc the game has become soft as ****. Especially in the regular season. He takes so many 3s bc he's a ***** and doesn't want to do the dirty work down low. That's precisely why the decided to go get Gobert as bad of a trade as that was.

KG's biggest criticism was that he was so talented offensively he needed to take more shots, but he was content to pass out and get others involved.

KG would literally cut KATs heart out and eat it on the court and KAT wouldn't be able to do anything about it.


It's depressing that all of the talk of vets that we could go get are the absolute worst team guys in the league. Don't go get anyone if that's the case. Just let the rebuild happen over the long term.

Lol kinda like what Butler actually did.

EXACTLY! Butler saw it and called them all out on it on the court. That was a plant the flag moment for KAT and he shrunk and still avoids the topic "uhh, i don't remember exactly.." or something like that.

The next player mentioned will be DeAngelo Russell.. I can feel it... lol

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It's depressing that all of the talk of vets that we could go get are the absolute worst team guys in the league. Don't go get anyone if that's the case. Just let the rebuild happen over the long term.

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But not controlling your own picks for the next 3 (or more?) years, isn't the point that it is time to win now?

It is certainly time to try to take advantage of teams with cap problems.

Otherwise, you have to hope Udoka completely changes things, because the Rockets don't seem headed in the best direction. Maybe the young guys really change and grow as team players and defenders. I would probably go after guys like OG Anunoby, but he is more of a 3rd/4th scorer than a 1 or 2 and he doesn't really create for his teammates. I think it will be tough to attract the right guys in without a big cultural change or talent gain.

Wish Jaylen Brown getting exploited for his dribbling in the ECF, I don't know if bringing him in as your #1 guy is the right move anymore and I certainly don't think he is a super max guy like he will likely command. With the new financial rules, you can't give the max to guys that are exploited in the playoffs, and that means guys like Brown, Gobert, or Harden that are regular season stars or superstars.

OG would be a good pick up.

The rockets are in a bad situation. They have a really bad culture. Teams stay in that hell hole for eternity when they get desperate and start taking shots on talented guys that are losers. You're right. Jaylen Brown isn't the answer either. I'm on record for that before he was exposed this playoffs. He hasn't been able to dribble ever but now everyone knows. he's 1000% better than Harden, KAT, or anyone else like them.

The good thing they got going for them is the new CBA. They need to be patient and wait for these cap stressed teams to start calling. Fertitta stating "we're on to the next stage" is laughable. If it were that easy to snap your fingers and start winning there wouldn't be any losing basketball teams, right? You do it the right way or you condemn yourself to an extended losing period

The Spurs have done it right. There isn't any questionable players on that team. They have good young players, they've collected picks, and been patient. And now they hit the lottery.

https://theathletic.com/4626868/2023/06/21/houston-rockets-nba-draft-2023/

Rockets still trying to trade #4
Amen not a lock for #4


It's also more likely, sources say, that Houston moves out of the draft entirely than moving back from the fourth pick. Teams have inquired about trading up with the Rockets, sources say, but it would take a serious haul of draft compensation or a combination of a great player and a future pick to warrant a serious discussion. There were different scenarios from interested teams proposed but Houston's brass would prefer to draft high as opposed to moving back.

Although there hasn't been an offer to this point that the Rockets have given serious consideration, sources say there have been several teams aggressively attempting to pry the No. 4 pick away, offering good starter-level players.

there have been discussions about potentially moving up from 20 to a range anywhere from the Miami Heat at No. 18 to the Dallas Mavericks at No. 10, sources say.

Ideally, Houston wants to preserve their nearly $60 million in cap space for free agency but given the abundance of financial flexibility, they could take on a bad contract if the upside of moving up was deemed worth it. On the flip side, if Houston stays put and the players they like are off the board by the time their pick comes around, they would be more open to trading the selection altogether, sources say.

In talks with teams, the Rockets have maintained their stance that they aren't looking to trade anyone from their core including top-five picks in Jalen Green and Jabari Smith Jr. and recent first-rounders Alperen engn and Tari Eason. Elsewhere, there has been interest in 22-year-old forward Kenyon Martin Jr., sources say, with his combination of age and upside still intriguing to rival NBA teams and deemed attainable internally for the right price.

Great! We'll take the 2nd or 3rd pick for Kenyon, the 4th pick and whatever other draft compensation required. Do It! do it now!

nm

This makes me feel better about Amen. He's not the consolation prize I thought he was.

"Portland knows that they have to improve this team to keep Damian Lillard..

Amen Thompson had a very strong workout in Portland and he made an impression on them" @ShamsCharania #PMSLive pic.twitter.com/V2fbWuErvR

— Pat McAfee (@PatMcAfeeShow) June 22, 2023

Before this tweet, @PointsBetUSA had Brandon Miller -190 and Scoot Henderson +135 to go No. 2.

They just took it down and reposted with Scoot at -600 and Miller at +400. https://t.co/xBxGLxEzOp

— Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) June 22, 2023

CFTXAG10 said:

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This makes me feel better about Amen. He's not the consolation prize I thought he was.

"Portland knows that they have to improve this team to keep Damian Lillard..

Amen Thompson had a very strong workout in Portland and he made an impression on them" @ShamsCharania #PMSLive pic.twitter.com/V2fbWuErvR

— Pat McAfee (@PatMcAfeeShow) June 22, 2023

Before this tweet, @PointsBetUSA had Brandon Miller -190 and Scoot Henderson +135 to go No. 2.

They just took it down and reposted with Scoot at -600 and Miller at +400. https://t.co/xBxGLxEzOp

— Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) June 22, 2023

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This is has been my fear all along. Brandon Miller to Charlotte is the same as Jabari to Orlando last year.

Amen is such an athletic freak and such a high feel player that I am expecting him to go to Portland. I think his floor is being underestimated based on how good he is at getting to the rim and passing.

I would have to say that I will be pretty disappointed to net Jabari and Brandon Miller out of the last two years of tanking. They can both be nice NBA starters, but there is no superstar upside there.

Id really be looking to move #4 if this is how its going to fall.

https://t.co/fwwBXRmsq9 pic.twitter.com/eu5r6zxiq5

— Kevin Rice (@TheKevinRice) June 21, 2023

Count me in the camp that would be thrilled to get Brandon Miller #4

Aggie09Derek said:

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Count me in the camp that would be thrilled to get Brandon Miller #4

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I'm telling you, Alabama Josh Jackson.

Man, it's all risk. I was going to say he's a better prospect than Josh… idk. I think he is, but it's such a crap shoot. there is more risk there than Scoot.

I don't think he makes it by Portland at 3 but I'd be thrilled to get him.

Like any prospects, there are some teams that are gonna be super high on him. If he drops to 4, I would certainly want that phone to ring off the hook.

He's super skinny already and lost more weight due to mono.

The way he has handled the shooting before and after shows awful decision making. I don't buy for a minute that he didn't see the text about bringing the gun (received 6 minutes before he arrived) and even if he did, he clearly knew they were getting a gun out of his car while he waited for them. He moved his car and parked in such a manner that the victim car couldn't get out. A few minutes later was the shooting where his car was shot twice, and he drove into the victim car fleeing. Despite his car being shot and him hitting another vehicle, he did not at any time call the police. Then he did that "pat down" entrance thing.

A couple weeks ago he was moaning how the shooting could have changed his career forever. He forgot to be sorry for the single mom that lost her life with the gun he delivered.

On the court, his shooting is good, but he isn't Gradey Dick. He avoids all contact and only shot like 39% at the rim and simply didn't take it to the hoop much, settling for mid-range shots rather than driving.

He put himself in a bad situation and they he reacted to it poorly. On the court he is too timid for the physicality of the NBA and I don't think he has the motor in him to be someone elite. He's a nice passer and nice shooter, but with his thinness, lack of motor, avoidance of contact, awful finishing at the hoop and bad decision making, I think he will be a bust.

Skinny - I am not concerned in the least. His frame looks fine and he WILL put on weight. All of these guys do, and he has the frame to add alot of good weight and be fine.

Physicality - Meh, Tatum wasn't physical either.. Still isn't as physical as he needs to be, but he's getting better every year.

We're projecting a 20yo kid that has shown some great basketball understanding and dominated the college level. What will he be when he's 25-28. Surrounded by the right people I think he could be outstanding.

Leads me to the last part - He made a stupid decision that cost someone their life. There would have to be some real conversations about who his crew is and what his plans are after he becomes an NBA player. i dont know, that's a judgement call I can't make unless I sat down and spent time with him.

The rim finishing got better as the year went on. He definitely will need to get stronger to be able to play through contact.

Im actually concerned the shooting wont translate. Only 33% from NBA range last year. Not an explosive athlete, so will he get the lift/separation to get open shots?

Combine with the off court stuff from the past year and the lack of intensity he showed in workouts relative to Amen and Scoot...this will be a big disappointment for me.

I'm not making a judgement on what happened that night. There's no way of knowing what happened and what he knew. That's why I said I would have to sit down and speak with him and be briefed on exactly what we know and weigh that against what he says, etc.

Not condemning a 19yo kid on something i don't know. I did so much stupid **** when I was 16-22. Never anything like that, but goodness maybe that would have happened if a friend of mine brought a gun to a party and a fight broke out. We got in a lot of fights in HS/College. It just happened. Not proud of it, but I was stupid and I had a group of friends didn't mind a fight.

Fair enough. Teams certainly have more information. Just talking from my perspective (which admittedly means nothing lol). It's just crazy what you hear about Scoot and the Thompson kids when it comes to their character and work ethic and then you got the troubling "allegations" surrounding Miller; I just know what I would lean on if I had ANY hesitation about what actually happened that night in Tuscaloosa.

Scoot is my number 1. I'd trade anyone on our roster not named Jabari Smith for Scoot and build around Scoot and Jabari. After him thought, I'd take Miller over anyone else in the draft and hope he figures it out. He's more talented than the rest with a higher ceiling.

Miller fits the current roster better though:

Porter
Green
Miller
Smith
Sengun

I wish we were the Spurs front office... it's like the Mighty Ducks in the 1st game vs the Hawks