#1 all-time terrible Morey move was trading for Westbrook. He 1) gave up on a good player when his value was the lowest, 2) bought a player when his value was artificially high and 3) gave up a war chest of draft picks. If it was driven by Harden it's a quadruple fail because he let his players call the shots. I'm still bitter about that one. I could defend just about every single one of his "bad" decisions (even Royce White), but Westbrook was a bridge too far.
************* Houston Rockets 22-23 Season thread *************
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Last: 8 mo ago by Max Power
It has Harden and Tillman.
New Owner Syndrome, as Russillo/Simmons call it. That trade was a Patrick Fertitta thing.
HotardRat said:
New Owner Syndrome, as Russillo/Simmons call it. That trade was a Patrick Fertitta thing.
Further emphasizing how bad of an idea it is to have a 20-something year old running your team.
Yeah Harden boned the future with his demands. The Westbrook one was all time bad.
AND ROCKETS FANS AND TILLMAN STILL WANT HIM IN HOUSTONAggie09Derek said:
Yeah Harden boned the future with his demands. The Westbrook one was all time bad.
Yeah…
I know dude.. I don't get it.
Guitarsoup said:
The good:
Aaron Brooks
Parsons
Carl Landry
Buddinger
Capela
The awful:
Morey traded Aaron Brooks for Goran Dragic and a 1st and then Morey let Dragic walk and Dragic was an All-NBA player two years later.
Selected Nic Batum and traded him for Donte Green.
Patrick Patterson
Traded the 2011 1st, 2013 1st and filler for Jonny Flynn and DMo.
Marcus Morris over Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, Vuvecic, and Tobias.
3 picks in 2012: Jeremy Lamb, Royce White, Terrence Jones.
Sam Dekker
Some bad stuff….. but at least we aren't the wolves. Who took back to back point guards not named Steph Curry.
That barely scratches the surface of how bad David Kahn was. Randy Foye and Mike Miller (in their primes) for Darius Songaila and a future first (Rubio)
He had 4 firsts the Curry year.
Rubio
Flynn
Ty Lawson
Wayne Ellington.
He traded Ty Lawson out for a future first.
20/20 hindsight, those four picks could have been:
Curry
DeMar DeRozan or Jrue Holliday
Jeff Teague, Ty Lawson, Taj Gibson
Pat Bev, Danny Green
In the next draft, he had 3 firsts.
Wesley Johnson 4th, Luke Babbitt 16th, Trevor Booker 23rd.
Johnson 4th over DeMarcus Cousins, Greg Monroe, Gordie Hayward, and Paul George
Babbitt over Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley
Trevor Booker over Hasaan Whiteside, and well everyone else sucked after booker.
But he traded Babbitt and Booker for Martell Webster, Lazar Haywood, and Nemanja Bjelica, who all sucked.
Traded Al Jefferson for two firsts.
Took Derrick Williams #2 overall in the Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler draft.
Those two 1st round picks for Al Jefferson? One was traded for Chase Buddinger, the other was used to select DMo over Jimmy Butler, which was traded for a 2013 first, which was later traded for a 2nd round pick and cash. Al Jefferson made All-NBA two years later in Utah.
I think that drafting Rubio was the greatest achievement of his executive career, and he took Rubio over Curry.
He had 4 firsts the Curry year.
Rubio
Flynn
Ty Lawson
Wayne Ellington.
He traded Ty Lawson out for a future first.
20/20 hindsight, those four picks could have been:
Curry
DeMar DeRozan or Jrue Holliday
Jeff Teague, Ty Lawson, Taj Gibson
Pat Bev, Danny Green
In the next draft, he had 3 firsts.
Wesley Johnson 4th, Luke Babbitt 16th, Trevor Booker 23rd.
Johnson 4th over DeMarcus Cousins, Greg Monroe, Gordie Hayward, and Paul George
Babbitt over Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley
Trevor Booker over Hasaan Whiteside, and well everyone else sucked after booker.
But he traded Babbitt and Booker for Martell Webster, Lazar Haywood, and Nemanja Bjelica, who all sucked.
Traded Al Jefferson for two firsts.
Took Derrick Williams #2 overall in the Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler draft.
Those two 1st round picks for Al Jefferson? One was traded for Chase Buddinger, the other was used to select DMo over Jimmy Butler, which was traded for a 2013 first, which was later traded for a 2nd round pick and cash. Al Jefferson made All-NBA two years later in Utah.
I think that drafting Rubio was the greatest achievement of his executive career, and he took Rubio over Curry.
This is why I've always thought the Harden reunion was farfetched. Why would Tillman still want to work with Harden after that embarrassment? He basically got played and had to implode the franchise.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/rockets/article/houston-rockets-nba-free-agency-shopping-list-18161570.php
I wouldn't trust Khris at this point with his injuries and age. Lopez would fit nice. I bet both end up in Milwaukee, though, unless Houston makes a package deal.
Would love to see the Rockets make the Lakers match a max deal for Reaves.
Harden and Draymond are staying put.
I love Bruce Brown, but with KPJ, Amen, and Green, plus possibly FVV how many minutes is he getting?
DonteD would fit nicely as a D&3 wing.
Powell is washed, but would be a good leader.
Brooks lost tons of value and is a knucklehead, but he's a great defender. Probably about 12mm/year.
Thanks, Chronicle. Rockets are interested in all big names on the free agent market.Quote:
According to a person with knowledge of their thinking, they have interest in the Bucks' Khris Middleton and Brook Lopez, the Nuggets' Bruce Brown, the Jazz's Jordan Clarkson, the Lakers' Rui Hachimura and Austin Reeves, the Nets' Cam Johnson, the Warriors' Donte DiVincenzo, the Grizzlies' Dillon Brooks, the Raptors' Jakob Poeltl and the Mavericks' Dwight Powell. Media reports have tied them to James Harden and Fred VanVleet.
I wouldn't trust Khris at this point with his injuries and age. Lopez would fit nice. I bet both end up in Milwaukee, though, unless Houston makes a package deal.
Would love to see the Rockets make the Lakers match a max deal for Reaves.
Harden and Draymond are staying put.
I love Bruce Brown, but with KPJ, Amen, and Green, plus possibly FVV how many minutes is he getting?
DonteD would fit nicely as a D&3 wing.
Powell is washed, but would be a good leader.
Brooks lost tons of value and is a knucklehead, but he's a great defender. Probably about 12mm/year.
Milwaukee may not be able to afford to keep Middleton and Lopez. If they have to choose one, I think they'll pick Middleton.
Ideal scenario for me would be FVV, Lopez, and a wing like CamJohn or Reaves or whoever.
I think KPJ and others will be used as trade chips to make the moves work. I read KPJ's contract can be stretched for $1.9M per year, so that could help facilitate moves to cut costs for other teams.
Ideal scenario for me would be FVV, Lopez, and a wing like CamJohn or Reaves or whoever.
I think KPJ and others will be used as trade chips to make the moves work. I read KPJ's contract can be stretched for $1.9M per year, so that could help facilitate moves to cut costs for other teams.
KPJ has like 14-15mm this year, but two unguaranteed years, so you can cut and stretch him double years+1. so 14mm stretched over 7 years, give or take. That's possibly valuable to a team like the Clippers or Warriors, but both seem happy to just pay $200mm in tax.
Milwaukee has a crunch for sure. It all depends what Khris has already talked to them about. Khris was pretty awful last year and is turning 32. If he and Giannis want to keep the gang together, I am thinking maybe he is doing a 2y with option for 3rd for 75mm or so to give them some room. I dont know a lot of teams would offer him 25mm/year for his age 32 year when he played 33 games last year and is not the defender he once was.
Likewise, Lopez is 35 and turns 36 right before the playoffs. He's probably 15mm/year.
That puts Milwaukee at 155mm for 8 guys. They would have 27mm in space for the supertax and 10mm in space for the luxury tax. That flexes if Lopez/Khris get more money, obviously, but it is workable. They would still have the TPMLE and BAE. They also have two second rounders in Andre Jackson and Chris Livingston. That's flexible enough to work, and I doubt they want to upset theHulk Greek Freak.
Milwaukee has a crunch for sure. It all depends what Khris has already talked to them about. Khris was pretty awful last year and is turning 32. If he and Giannis want to keep the gang together, I am thinking maybe he is doing a 2y with option for 3rd for 75mm or so to give them some room. I dont know a lot of teams would offer him 25mm/year for his age 32 year when he played 33 games last year and is not the defender he once was.
Likewise, Lopez is 35 and turns 36 right before the playoffs. He's probably 15mm/year.
That puts Milwaukee at 155mm for 8 guys. They would have 27mm in space for the supertax and 10mm in space for the luxury tax. That flexes if Lopez/Khris get more money, obviously, but it is workable. They would still have the TPMLE and BAE. They also have two second rounders in Andre Jackson and Chris Livingston. That's flexible enough to work, and I doubt they want to upset the
The FO doesnt seem to have any qualms about publicizing what they think. They pretty consistently project who they want through the media.Guitarsoup said:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/rockets/article/houston-rockets-nba-free-agency-shopping-list-18161570.phpThanks, Chronicle. Rockets are interested in all big names on the free agent market.Quote:
According to a person with knowledge of their thinking, they have interest in the Bucks' Khris Middleton and Brook Lopez, the Nuggets' Bruce Brown, the Jazz's Jordan Clarkson, the Lakers' Rui Hachimura and Austin Reeves, the Nets' Cam Johnson, the Warriors' Donte DiVincenzo, the Grizzlies' Dillon Brooks, the Raptors' Jakob Poeltl and the Mavericks' Dwight Powell. Media reports have tied them to James Harden and Fred VanVleet.
I wouldn't trust Khris at this point with his injuries and age. Lopez would fit nice. I bet both end up in Milwaukee, though, unless Houston makes a package deal.
Would love to see the Rockets make the Lakers match a max deal for Reaves.
Harden and Draymond are staying put.
I love Bruce Brown, but with KPJ, Amen, and Green, plus possibly FVV how many minutes is he getting?
DonteD would fit nicely as a D&3 wing.
Powell is washed, but would be a good leader.
Brooks lost tons of value and is a knucklehead, but he's a great defender. Probably about 12mm/year.
The wide net they are casting in free agency still makes me think process and methodology for roster building is primitive.
Guess we will see what happens.
Clarkson would be an awful choice. He's another low-efficiency volume scorer.
I don't think Jakob Poeltl would be the right fit for the young athletic guys Houston has. He's more of a set-piece half court post. I like Cam Johnson, but think Brooklyn matches unless you stupidly overpay.
I think hoping that Udoka has something worked out with Brown for next summer is the better bet than most of these.
I do like DonteD and Bruce Brown a lot. I think FVV will get overpaid by someone (maybe Houston) and Dillion Brooks is only good if you get him to stop taking so many bad shots and running his stupid mouth.
I don't think Jakob Poeltl would be the right fit for the young athletic guys Houston has. He's more of a set-piece half court post. I like Cam Johnson, but think Brooklyn matches unless you stupidly overpay.
I think hoping that Udoka has something worked out with Brown for next summer is the better bet than most of these.
I do like DonteD and Bruce Brown a lot. I think FVV will get overpaid by someone (maybe Houston) and Dillion Brooks is only good if you get him to stop taking so many bad shots and running his stupid mouth.
I think you're underselling Lopez. He just made NBA All-Defensive First Team. He's one of the best 3 and D big men in the league.
Clint Capela was the 10th highest paid center and made $18.7M last year. Jarrett Allen was $20M. Vucevic made $22M. I think $20-25M is more realistic than $15M. That would put them at or slightly below the tax line and they still have to fill 7 more spots.
I think they'll let one of Lopez or Middleton walk. If it was me, I'd try to keep Lopez because there are a lot more wings on the market, but the Rockets may make that difficult.
Clint Capela was the 10th highest paid center and made $18.7M last year. Jarrett Allen was $20M. Vucevic made $22M. I think $20-25M is more realistic than $15M. That would put them at or slightly below the tax line and they still have to fill 7 more spots.
I think they'll let one of Lopez or Middleton walk. If it was me, I'd try to keep Lopez because there are a lot more wings on the market, but the Rockets may make that difficult.
I think Lopez is great and would be a good get by pretty much every team.
But he's still turning 36 before the playoffs and has some not-favorable injury history. Like played under 20 games last year, and not because he's a vag like Kawhi.
But he's still turning 36 before the playoffs and has some not-favorable injury history. Like played under 20 games last year, and not because he's a vag like Kawhi.
Guitarsoup said:
I think Lopez is great and would be a good get by pretty much every team.
But he's still turning 36 before the playoffs and has some not-favorable injury history. Like played under 20 games last year, and not because he's a vag like Kawhi.
He's played 68+ games 8 of the last 9 years. I don't disagree with your point, but I think teams will talk themselves into it, especially with him coming off such a good year.
Rumor is that Khris Middleton has a 4y140mm deal wrapped up with Milwaukee
Reports of Houston to come with an offer of 2 yrs $80MM to VanVleet.
That's a good pick up if we can land him.
I think FVV and Grant Williams would be a pretty solid use of the money. Williams played for Ime already and is a tough guy, big competitor, good defender that can space the floor. I'm not super high on FVV, but he can hit threes, seems like a good locker room guy and was key to that Raptors title.
If Houston gives Reaves a max or a big offer to FVV right away, I wonder what Philly does with Harden. There will literally be no other suitors for Harden.
👀👀👀 pic.twitter.com/ky0RMBP7CY
— Jackson Gatlin (@JTGatlin) June 28, 2023
The new R logo is code for "fRed Vanvleet"
In a look at where the Raptors stand heading into free agency, Eric Koreen of The Athletic expects the team to re-sign both Fred VanVleet and Jakob Poeltl, although it will be expensive to do so. Koreen projects a four-year, $130MM contract for VanVleet and a three-year, $63MM deal for Poeltl. That would give Toronto $164.8MM committed to 12 players for the upcoming season, leaving no way to fill out the roster without exceeding the projected luxury-tax threshold of $165MM.
The Rockets may be ready to offer VanVleet a maximum-salary contract, but they reportedly want to limit it to two years. Toronto's willingness to commit to a longer deal could be enough to convince him to stay, although Koreen also explores sign-and-trade possibilities with the Bulls, Timberwolves and Nets.
The Rockets may be ready to offer VanVleet a maximum-salary contract, but they reportedly want to limit it to two years. Toronto's willingness to commit to a longer deal could be enough to convince him to stay, although Koreen also explores sign-and-trade possibilities with the Bulls, Timberwolves and Nets.
Harden is definitely going back to Philly. The Houston rumour is just an agent making sure their client gets max income.
We need culture setters and high IQ players right now. If we are hungry for a reunion, I say we try to bring Kyle back. Trade KMJ for him, maybe get a 2nd round pick back for taking the contract.
We need culture setters and high IQ players right now. If we are hungry for a reunion, I say we try to bring Kyle back. Trade KMJ for him, maybe get a 2nd round pick back for taking the contract.
Fred VanVleet and Dillon Brooks are expected to be #Rockets by Friday, via @TheSteinLine. Their projected offers:
— Bradeaux (@BradeauxNBA) June 29, 2023
FVV:
2 years
83.6M (max)
Brooks:
2 years
28-32M pic.twitter.com/hGIsnQDWeB
Love getting FVV on 2 years. Gives us flexibility to max contract a young guy or 2 up for renewal at that point if they pan out.
Brooks is a dbag, but would be a better signing for that money than Kuz.
I still think Kuz to Sacramento
I still think Kuz to Sacramento
https://theathletic.com/4653193/2023/06/29/james-harden-76ers-trade/
opting into Philly but then will be traded
opting into Philly but then will be traded
Aggie09Derek said:
https://theathletic.com/4653193/2023/06/29/james-harden-76ers-trade/
opting into Philly but then will be traded
No idea what the clippers will give up, but I do like seeing all NBA hate consolidating in one team
2 guys that can't stay healthy (or whatever is up with Kawhi..) and a dude that cares more about going out than competing and throw tantrums to a level that he'll put on 40lbs. Maybe he can hook back up with a kardashian.
Thank the Lord he isn't coming here. I love that he opted in. It means NO ONE wanted him for anything close to $35m and multiple years which makes me feel better about the NBA decision makers.
Can Morey trade him to China?
Thank the Lord he isn't coming here. I love that he opted in. It means NO ONE wanted him for anything close to $35m and multiple years which makes me feel better about the NBA decision makers.
Can Morey trade him to China?
Woods Ag said:
2 guys that can't stay healthy (or whatever is up with Kawhi..) and a dude that cares more about going out than competing and throw tantrums to a level that he'll put on 40lbs. Maybe he can hook back up with a kardashian.
Thank the Lord he isn't coming here. I love that he opted in. It means NO ONE wanted him for anything close to $35m and multiple years which makes me feel better about the NBA decision makers.
Can Morey trade him to China?
Come on, do something crazy, LA! Entertain me!
Would give the Clippers:
Zubac/Plumlee
Tobias/Kobe Brown
Kawhi
PG13/Coffee
Harden/Westbrook?
4stringAg
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