***** USMNT vs The Netherlands WC R16 Game Thread (12/3) *****

64,922 Views | 1293 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by aggiephoenix02
fig96
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TXAggie2011 said:

Not a completely unfair response, but the difference is that Wright had had a pretty good full 2021-2022 season in Turkey while Vazquez had had a hot couple of months

Vazquez really took off in July at which point it was certainly too late to have him involved in the summer friendlies
While true, there's zero reason not to call him in at some point just to get him capped if nothing else. We had no must have striker in the current roster pool, you have to explore options and I think GGG absolutely failed there.
deadbq03
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I don't really think it's fair to criticize ggg for not trying out any particular player at the 9. He tried lots of guys. And all of them would have a moment of brilliance and then fade. I don't blame you for having your favorite guy that you think he should've tried - that's a natural tendency. And he might've worked out. But when you start running out of fingers to count the 9s we've tried, it's probably time to just pick some and get on with life.

IMO the option he should've explored much earlier was to say "f a pure 9" and put one of our very talented attacking mids/wingers out there as a false 9, and open up a starting spot for another very talented attacking mid/winger. We lacked creativity up front time and again, and time and again, all ggg does is hold tryouts for a proper 9 instead of coming up with a scheme that gets your best 11 out there. Both Gio and Aaronson are light-years better for club and country than any 9 we've used for many years.

I'm starting to wonder if the only reason he didn't ever try this was to spite Gio.

I say that half-joking… in truth, I think ggg just lacks creativity in implementing an offense - which makes me wonder if the real reason our 9s underperform is because they're being coached by ggg.
Rudyjax
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Seems to me if you don't have a 9, you don't play a formation the requires a true 9.

I'm not a professional soccer coach though so what do I know.
fig96
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That actually gets back more to my other criticism, trying to fit players into his system instead of adapting to what you have.

And while you're probably not wrong, this isn't a thing that just popped up in June that he had to figure out. We've had a hole at the 9 for a couple years now but it felt like most all of 2021 he was calling in the same guys. Bring your Pepi or Ferreira and then a couple guys that you want to learn more about.
JJxvi
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Chuck Cunningham said:

Who is saying Reyna wasn't wrong?
Pages and pages of posts here and in social media I read indicate people want this to be about Berhalter and not about Reyna, IMO. I'd be interested to know how many who are arguing how big the media handling and secret keeping importance of being the national team coach right now, lost their **** when he put in Jordan Morris vs Wales, something which we now can pretty much infer, only happened because Reyna decided he wasn't going to play hard or prepare appropriately if his role was "limited"
carl spacklers hat
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TXAggie2011 said:

TRM said:

I would have been in favor of finding a better MLS option than Roldan or Long.
Y'all think Berhalter told Roldan he'd have a limited role?
You think Roldan thought he'd actually see the pitch?
People think I'm an idiot or something, because all I do is cut lawns for a living.
oh no
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We have 9s. We just have a plethora of really talented wingers and many fans would rather have 3 of them on the pitch at once over two wingers +one of our 9s. We're not that different than almost any country not named Norway or Poland. No one has a Haaland or Lewandowski walking through their doors anytime soon. We've got some dudes who can play, but when you've got 4-5 great wingers and you're cycling through about 8 different 9's in 1.5 years hoping to find your next Kane or Benzema, at some point, you consider doing something different with a false 9 or a 4-4-2 or something to get a 3rd winger out there instead of these other guys.

Also, important to point out that of the last 8-9 "9s" used by Greggg, only one will cycle out by the next WC (Zardes). The rest are young and have some critical development years upon them right now where some could really shine and become stars while younger guys are pushing for pushing for consideration too.


9's used in the most recent cycle:

Pefok - Bundeslida (26 yrs)
Pepi - Bundesliga (loan to Eredivisie) (19 yrs)
Haji W. - Super Lig (Turkey) (24 yrs)
Sargent - English championship (22 yrs)
Dike - English championship (22 yrs)
Jesus F. - MLS (21 yrs)
G. Zardes - MLS (31 yrs)
Gioacchini - MLS (22 yrs)
S. Soto - Austrian Bundesliga (22 yrs)
akm91
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Quote:

IMO the option he should've explored much earlier was to say "f a pure 9" and put one of our very talented attacking mids/wingers out there as a false 9, and open up a starting spot for another very talented attacking mid/winger. We lacked creativity up front time and again, and time and again, all ggg does is hold tryouts for a proper 9 instead of coming up with a scheme that gets your best 11 out there. Both Gio and Aaronson are light-years better for club and country than any 9 we've used for many years.
Think part of that problem is the injuries during WCQ to the winger pool and the condensed schedule.

September - Full complement (Pulisic, Weah, Gio, Aaronson)
October - Pulisic and Gio out injured
November - Gio out injured
January/Feb - Gio out injured
March - Full complement (Pulisic, Weah, Gio-may have been limited, Aaronson)
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
PatAg
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fig96 said:

TXAggie2011 said:

Not a completely unfair response, but the difference is that Wright had had a pretty good full 2021-2022 season in Turkey while Vazquez had had a hot couple of months

Vazquez really took off in July at which point it was certainly too late to have him involved in the summer friendlies
While true, there's zero reason not to call him in at some point just to get him capped if nothing else. We had no must have striker in the current roster pool, you have to explore options and I think GGG absolutely failed there.
I think the big mistake was not calling him in probably 4-5 other players who were in form for that last august camp. Or any other camps as well.
His reasoning was something along the lines of "guys werent in the system and didnt know how we wanted to play", which to me is a dumb reason for the national team. Also, he can control who comes into camp, he should be calling in more than the roster of players for the games. As good a job as he did of integrating new players, it still wasnt good enough imo.
PatAg
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oh no said:

We have 9s. We just have a plethora of really talented wingers and many fans would rather have 3 of them on the pitch at once over two wingers +one of our 9s. We're not that different than almost any country not named Norway or Poland. No one has a Haaland or Lewandowski walking through their doors anytime soon. We've got some dudes who can play, but when you've got 4-5 great wingers and you're cycling through about 8 different 9's in 1.5 years hoping to find your next Kane or Benzema, at some point, you consider doing something different with a false 9 or a 4-4-2 or something to get a 3rd winger out there instead of these other guys.

Also, important to point out that of the last 8-9 "9s" used by Greggg, only one will cycle out by the next WC (Zardes). The rest are young and have some critical development years upon them right now where some could really shine and become stars while younger guys are pushing for pushing for consideration too.


9's used in the most recent cycle:

Pefok - Bundeslida (26 yrs)
Pepi - Bundesliga (loan to Eredivisie) (19 yrs)
Haji W. - Super Lig (Turkey) (24 yrs)
Sargent - English championship (22 yrs)
Dike - English championship (22 yrs)
Jesus F. - MLS (21 yrs)
G. Zardes - MLS (31 yrs)
Gioacchini - MLS (22 yrs)
S. Soto - Austrian Bundesliga (22 yrs)
This is a great point, and list, and there is also a cadre of other younger players who will be eligible for the next WC as well.
It really applies across the roster, I think our success is going to depend a lot on what each players pushes themselves to accomplish with their clubs over the next 3 years. Of course a better manager would help, but we could have also done worse than Gregg.
fig96
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PatAg said:

fig96 said:

TXAggie2011 said:

Not a completely unfair response, but the difference is that Wright had had a pretty good full 2021-2022 season in Turkey while Vazquez had had a hot couple of months

Vazquez really took off in July at which point it was certainly too late to have him involved in the summer friendlies
While true, there's zero reason not to call him in at some point just to get him capped if nothing else. We had no must have striker in the current roster pool, you have to explore options and I think GGG absolutely failed there.
I think the big mistake was not calling him in probably 4-5 other players who were in form for that last august camp. Or any other camps as well.
His reasoning was something along the lines of "guys werent in the system and didnt know how we wanted to play", which to me is a dumb reason for the national team. Also, he can control who comes into camp, he should be calling in more than the roster of players for the games. As good a job as he did of integrating new players, it still wasnt good enough imo.
100% agree.
jeffk
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fig96
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Spoken like a true professional.
deadbq03
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Tim Ream is USMNT legend status in my book. His performance was top notch.

And I'll happily eat some crow there. My Fulham buddy thought Ream wouldn't do well and I believed him.
jeffk
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I didn't think there was any way GB would bring him in. Glad he did though.
aggiephoenix02
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Big Tim Ream had a great World Cup…
AG@RICE
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In retrospect, its a bit silly Ream was an outsider for this world cup. He is a defensive rock for a team that absolutely dominated the english championship last year and is mid-table in the EPL this year. When he was in his 20, he certainly wasn't playing at this calibre; however, over the last 4 years at Fulham he has put together the best resume of any CB in the national team pool. His only recent blemish was in 2020 after fulham earned promotion via playoff to the EPL. Flush with new cash, the owners bought a few new CBs and Ream ended up on the bench....and fulham ended up getting relegated (karma). Back in the Championship, he regained his place and hasn't relinquished it yet.

I'm going to pencil him in for 2026...He could still play at 39....dudes a legend.
PatAg
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Need to somehow just completely unseat everyone in a position of power with the USSF and not allow any of their cronies to replace them
TRM
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It's not just Jamaica doing this. El Salvador is a having a winter U17 camp - all players from the US of Salvadoran descent.

We need a major adjustment from top to bottom.
tysker
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Stronger MLS academies are going to produce stronger dual nationals. I think its a good thing in the long run for the league as ultimately the USNNT
Rudyjax
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tysker said:

Stronger MLS academies are going to produce stronger dual nationals. I think its a good thing in the long run for the league as ultimately the USNNT


Especially with more teams in the next WC. Jamaica has a strong shot of making it.
PatAg
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Chuck Cunningham said:

Pomykal is a CAM, is he not? Pat?
Pomykal is in no way a CDM right now.
He's an 8 with the ability to combine in close spaces, progress the ball on the dribble, hit progressive passes early. I could see the confusion, because another strength of his is reading the game well and breaking up the opposition early. Which, in theory, leads to quick transition into the attacking third.
He may be able to transition into a 6/CDM type of role, but he doesnt have any reps there at all.
He also was recovering from surgery in 2021, and had some issues the prior year too. He was finally healthy this whole last year, and it speaks to what myself and many other people have said.

Him, Eryk Williamson, and a few other central mids should have been called into these camps along with more strikers and probably other outside backs. There is no reason to only call 23 or so people in when you are struggling to identify depth, and in some cases your starting lineup, this whole last year building up to the World Cup. Even if it's unlikely you think they make the roster going into the camp, you never know what you will see when you get all the players together. Worst case scenario, the players now have experience with your coaching and the rest of the playerbase. Its only positives.

I think that, along with most peoples grievances with his overall 'system' based approach to tactics are why I'd like to see him move on. I'd also wish him well with whatever club he joins.
oh no
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akm91
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Pretty crazy that Bale's not on that list
TXAggie2011
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So no Qatari players made their Worst XI?
Thunder18
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Lukaku?
Mathguy64
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Dest wasn't that bad.
Rudyjax
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So happy a Chelsea player made it.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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Chuck Cunningham said:

So happy a Chelsea player made it.


They need to play for something important this year.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
PatAg
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I don't see how that could be right for Dest
Oh its something called "daily sport"
Aston94
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Dest did not have a great World Cup, but would not say it was a "worst right back in tournament " performance.
AustinScubaAg
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That list looks more like players that underachieved pre tournament expectations.
KCup17
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If I'm not mistaken each of these players are on a team that progressed passed the group stage. I'm not sure how that equates to being the worst XI?
aggiephoenix02
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KCup17 said:

If I'm not mistaken each of these players are on a team that progressed passed the group stage. I'm not sure how that equates to being the worst XI?
Yeah! This list is bullcrap…
 
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