***** USMNT vs The Netherlands WC R16 Game Thread (12/3) *****

51,138 Views | 1293 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by aggiephoenix02
jeffk
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USMNT vs The Netherlands/Holland/The Dutch
Saturday, December 3rd, 2022
10:00 am ET
Ahmad Bin Ali Stadium, Al Rayyan

TV: Big Fox, Telemundo
ja86
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akm91
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Dest going up against the dutch
YokelRidesAgain
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I AM GOING TO JUICE AN ORANGE BECAUSE IT IS THREE DAYS UNTIL GAMEDAY!!!
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swc93
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De Jong? More like De Yawn!
wangus12
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Dest gonna show up the dutch
Dre_00
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If you are interested in hearing the Dutch POV, I'll post some stuff...Google translate is adequate but a little clunky.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/oranje-treft-compleet-gerenoveerd-en-veelbelovend-amerikaans-team-in-achtste-finale~b3e04f4f/

There are a few English language Dutch news sources but they aren't very sports centric.

EastSideAg2002
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Should be posted everyday!

Aggies2009
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Playing with house money at this point. Ahead of schedule.

That said, the Dutch are beatable. Let's do it.
Aston94
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tysker
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Jedi and CP gonna run past the Dutchie on the left hand side
oh no
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We're going to smoke them like we're in Amsterdam
aggiephoenix02
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2-1 USA
oh no
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Out in Left Field
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Pahdz
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Barkley pronouncing Mbappe
TXAggie2011
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Muh bop ay
boogieman
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I think this basically guarantees he's going to play!
Dre_00
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https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/4820693/why-brazil-argentina-and-more-will-or-wont-win-world-cup

An interesting portion from the US review which puts numbers to what I think we already know...

Quote:

And as these players begin to tire, the Americans' effectiveness vanishes.

  • xG, first 60 min: USA 2.19, opponents 0.91 (actual score: US 2-0)
  • xG, last 30 min: opponents 2.23, USA 0.35 (actual score: opponent 1-0)

Fatigue has indeed limited certain key players, and manager Gregg Berhalter's substitution decisions (both timing and personnel) have been, to put it diplomatically, shaky. When things move into game management mode, the US quickly fray.
Gordo14
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Dre_00 said:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/4820693/why-brazil-argentina-and-more-will-or-wont-win-world-cup

An interesting portion from the US review which puts numbers to what I think we already know...

Quote:

And as these players begin to tire, the Americans' effectiveness vanishes.

  • xG, first 60 min: USA 2.19, opponents 0.91 (actual score: US 2-0)
  • xG, last 30 min: opponents 2.23, USA 0.35 (actual score: opponent 1-0)

Fatigue has indeed limited certain key players, and manager Gregg Berhalter's substitution decisions (both timing and personnel) have been, to put it diplomatically, shaky. When things move into game management mode, the US quickly fray.



While the story is still true, part of the reason the opponents xG is so high is we gave up a penalty. We still haven't given opponents many quality chances from the run of play in the last 30 mins.
Dre_00
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Fair but even if you take out the penalty, the xG gap is virtually the same as the first 60 minutes but in the opposite direction. And either way, the US' xG the last 30 minutes is abysmal. We've effectively created nothing over 3 games while our opponents have created at least 2-3 chances (in total...not each).
wangus12
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The decision to try and bunker at the end of games and concede both possession and chances is like playing Russian roulette. Prevent D doesn't work very well in any sport
Gordo14
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Dre_00 said:

Fair but even if you take out the penalty, the xG gap is virtually the same as the first 60 minutes but in the opposite direction. And either way, the US' xG the last 30 minutes is abysmal. We've effectively created nothing over 3 games while our opponents have created at least 2-3 chances (in total...not each).


Can't disagree with that. Our offense in general has been pretty bleh. I do think there is an element of us playing to keep the score as is for the last 30 mins in all of our games so far at play though.
Chuck Cunningham
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Out in Left Field said:


I can't find it now, but there was a video of the TNT guys taking penalty kicks. Every single one toe poked it and looked incredibly awkward.

The video was the USMNT reactions. I loved it when CP said, Give me a basketball and I can mae a shot.

jeffk
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wangus12 said:

The decision to try and bunker at the end of games and concede both possession and chances is like playing Russian roulette. Prevent D doesn't work very well in any sport


Eh, it does until it doesn't. Strictly talking soccer here, you know your opponent is going to press you hard for an equalizer in these scenarios, so you can either continue to play a full-field game that might stretch out or unbalance your own defense, or you can make some tactical changes and subs and remain balanced and compact. You'll of course give up possession and your opponents will therefor create some additional chances, but the hope is that those chances are of lower quality than they might get in a more open, back and forth contest. Some teams do it better than others obviously, but this US team isn't actually all that bad at limiting their opponents to bad looks when in a defensive alignment. I think we'd be a whole lot better at it if our better possession midfielders weren't also our starters who get gassed and then need to be subbed out later in games.

I think most people just don't like watching a team bunker because you know we're no longer going to pose much of a threat to score.
oh no
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when MMA are all three gassed, who are your subs? You've got Acosta, who is a decent defensive/holding midfielder, but he's making some tackles, he's not making a lot of great turns or dribbles and he's not switching the field, recycling, and doing the things to keep possession and calm things down and give everyone a short break from the intense under fire pressure. After Acosta, who do we have to sub in the midfield? LDLT appears to have great comfort with the ball and great touch, but he is coming off injury and not as strong defensively. Roldan? I don't think Roldan is the sub you need when you're protecting a lead and hoping for a second goal. I think, unfortunately, adding Acosta and a third centerback was the best option greggg had at the end.
Dre_00
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Not to be pedantic but we need to define what we mean by bunkering a prevent D. To me, bunkering isn't defending. It's defending extremely deep with no real intent to keep possession after you win the ball.

I have no problem with defending deep for long periods especially to protect a late lead. But if you win the ball back and your first instinct is to flail it aimlessly into no man's land where there's no chance of you retaining possession, that's a big problem.

And if you do manage it to clear it to a player who is able to bring it under control for more than a few seconds, you have got to get players in support of him so that you can continue to keep possession. You don't have to commit players at pace to start a counter attack. But you do need to commit some players to midfield so that you can try and keep the ball there as long as possible.

As I remember it, Wales in the second half wasn't really a bunker. It was just a complete bypass of midfield that was exasperated by our substitutions. Iran on the other hand...maybe it was the substitutions again (and their performance). Maybe Berhalter had no intent for them to play like that but...they couldn't even find an outlet and when they did, the outlet couldn't win the ball and it didn't appear many, if any, were coming to help him to retain it.
oh no
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Crazy

PatAg
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Dre_00 said:

Not to be pedantic but we need to define what we mean by bunkering a prevent D. To me, bunkering isn't defending. It's defending extremely deep with no real intent to keep possession after you win the ball.

I have no problem with defending deep for long periods especially to protect a late lead. But if you win the ball back and your first instinct is to flail it aimlessly into no man's land where there's no chance of you retaining possession, that's a big problem.

And if you do manage it to clear it to a player who is able to bring it under control for more than a few seconds, you have got to get players in support of him so that you can continue to keep possession. You don't have to commit players at pace to start a counter attack. But you do need to commit some players to midfield so that you can try and keep the ball there as long as possible.

As I remember it, Wales in the second half wasn't really a bunker. It was just a complete bypass of midfield that was exasperated by our substitutions. Iran on the other hand...maybe it was the substitutions again (and their performance). Maybe Berhalter had no intent for them to play like that but...they couldn't even find an outlet and when they did, the outlet couldn't win the ball and it didn't appear many, if any, were coming to help him to retain it.
Even against Wales, we had numerous transition scenarios that we just botched. The opportunity to create goals off the counter were there, we just didn't execute.
I think the haji wright sub against iran was pretty bad. He had already underwhelmed in his minutes against England, and he just doesn't have the sort of approach we need from the striker at this point in the game. Yes he is a big dude, but he's not going to harass the backline and defensive mid like you need. He's not going to threaten the backline with pace in behind. Jesus, or even Reyna, would have been a better choice in alll those games.
There is an advantage to bringing in players that can possess the ball and have speed in those scenarios, you dont make every sub with the thought of bringing on a more defensive minded player.

To me, it seemed like Gregg did go too conservative with his subs, but its hard to judge his intent because 2-3 of the subs performed poorly each time. BUT, that's also his choice to bring those players on and it was not surprising to see them struggle.

So far Gregg has NAILED our starting tactics, and flubbed the 2nd half tactics and subs. Going to need almost all the players to continue to raise their level of play(which they have every game) and Berhalter will probably need to make some bold choices in the 2nd half.
Dre_00
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I would much rather play Reyna and Aaronson late game in a deeper role centrally than they are used to...especially if we are talking for 10-15 minutes and not an entire game. If Christian Eriksen can do it, so can they.

You don't need much. You just need some players in the middle who can play with the ball at their feet, make smart decisions, and make smart passes.

And if you still need a late sub on the wing to kill a game, then stick Morris on. He'll close down and give energy...enough size and strength to give you an outlet. Your ball handlers in the middle and your athletes on the wing when in late game defending mode. My 2 cents.
akm91
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I only remember a few clearances in the first half so the 8 clearances constituting a sizeable % of total clearances is not far fetched.

This really speaks to how well the team defended in the 1st half and how desperate Iran was.
oh no
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I also think you can start one of those two guys and then late, a fresh off the bench Josh Sargent can track back and defend really well. Good defender and good in the air. I think Norwich has used Sargent in a RB, RWB, and RW roles because they have Pukki as an established #9 already. Other than playing it growing up and being expected to play it at Bremen, only Greggg has used Sargent as a sole #9 in a 4-3-3 lately.
akm91
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I think there's no way Haji gets on the field unless we're chasing a goal against Netherland. I like the Morris as sub instead of Wright as Morris gives you the physicality, speed and effort to provide an outlet and to press/defend. Would be nice if he can also do the hold up job but that's asking too much.
oh no
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yeah, we didn't need to clear it in the first half as we were allowed to have possession and build out, break lines and methodically and clinically get the ball into the attacking third.
akm91
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Sargent's skillset is a #9 and not a winger. Think Norwich wants to get both Pukki and Sargent on the field at the same time and didn't want to change their system. i guess there were no takers for Pukki when Norwich was relegated.

Berhalter had Musah playing as a CM even when his club was playing him on the wing. Musah's now playing centrally as CM for his club.
 
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