***** USMNT vs The Netherlands WC R16 Game Thread (12/3) *****

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ChipFTAC01
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In reply to jeffk • 10:40a, 12/7/22
AG
jeffk said:
Personally I'm okay with GB staying around a little longer, but I'd prefer a new face/voice as we start building towards the 2026 WC.

That said, most replacement options I see floated around are either unattainable (we're not luring a successful club coach to the job) or awful, so unless I see a promising name emerge, I'd be okay with staying pat.


This is where I am.
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PatAg
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In reply to wangus12 • 10:43a, 12/7/22
AG
wangus12 said:
KCup17 said:
Whoever the coach is it is imperative that this group of players get as much competitive game time with the USMNT as possible.
Problem there is we are stuck with CONCACAF competitions that make us play inferior opponents way too often. Hard to get challenging friendlies because of all the regional international competitions now.
Yep, while CONCACAF has improved it's still not enough on its own. The qualifying is nice to get players in difficult environements on the road, just due to the conditions they play in.
The players are really going to have to get the majority of the work done themselves in their various club situations. Then the manager just needs to be good tactically speaking (very simplified way of stating that)
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PatAg
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In reply to jeffk • 10:44a, 12/7/22
AG
jeffk said:
Personally I'm okay with GB staying around a little longer, but I'd prefer a new face/voice as we start building towards the 2026 WC.

That said, most replacement options I see floated around are either unattainable (we're not luring a successful club coach to the job) or awful, so unless I see a promising name emerge, I'd be okay with staying pat.
I guess the question would be, do international coaches really ever sign contracts that aren't for a full qualifying cycle?
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TRM
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10:46a, 12/7/22
AG
I want a new coach for the Gold Cup to start the pool evaluation process. Just rip the band-aid off and move on.
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jeffk
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In reply to PatAg • 10:49a, 12/7/22
AG
Yeah, that I don't know.
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zgolfz85
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10:55a, 12/7/22
AG
agreed, I'm ok with ggg sticking around til 2024, but hope we make a change for the 18 months leading up to WC
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akm91
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In reply to PatAg • 10:56a, 12/7/22
AG
'26 is unique in due to lack there isn't qualifying for us so it is possible to get an international coach for portion of the cycle; espcially a significant core group of players are known commodities. At least 8 of the 2022 starting XI (Pulisic, Weah, MMA, Dest, Robinson, Turner) will play significant roles in the run up to 2026, plus 4 (Renya, Aaronson, Scally, De La Torre) will contribute heavily if not signficantly.
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Aston94
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In reply to ChipFTAC01 • 11:01a, 12/7/22
AG
ChipFTAC01 said:
jeffk said:
Personally I'm okay with GB staying around a little longer, but I'd prefer a new face/voice as we start building towards the 2026 WC.

That said, most replacement options I see floated around are either unattainable (we're not luring a successful club coach to the job) or awful, so unless I see a promising name emerge, I'd be okay with staying pat.


This is where I am.
Yep. Me too.



I just wish Gregg would be more flexible in his system. 4-3-3 is great, if you have a 9 that can score. I would prefer we adapt a system to our players, not get stuck on a system regardless of whether we have the players to fit it or not.
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Dre_00
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In reply to deadbq03 • 12:24p, 12/7/22
deadbq03 said:
I read it and it's not bad, but I agree the list is awful.

The thread makes a very compelling case that he shouldn't have ever been a legitimate candidate for the job and the hiring process is bogus. That's probably mostly-to-entirely true.

But that particular ship has sailed. If ggg had been lights-out brilliant as a coach, no one would care how he was hired.

Exactly. No one would be saying "Man, this guy just won the World Cup, but we gotta fire him because the hiring process was pure nepotism and not completely open".
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Mathguy64
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In reply to Rudyjax • 12:29p, 12/7/22
AG
Chuck Cunningham said:
AG@RICE said:
I think there are only 2 options:

Bring back Greg

OR

Go get Jesse
The only way we get Jesse is if he fails at Leeds.

I'm ok with a 1-2 year deal with Ggg and have someone to take over.

But the hiring on the women's side doesn't leave me with warm fuzzies either.
Part of the issue on the Women's side is that US Soccer required the whole staff move to Chicago. I think there were coaches who said "nope" to that edict. And its idiotic. They are transient coaches for training and games. Live where ever you want and work from home between camps and events.
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akm91
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 12:33p, 12/7/22
AG
Quote:
Part of the issue on the Women's side is that US Soccer required the whole staff move to Chicago
I believe that's the case for both Men's and Women's NT head coach. Not sure about all the other coaches.
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Dre_00
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In reply to akm91 • 12:35p, 12/7/22
akm91 said:
We may have luck scheduling African or South American countries for friendlies.

Friendlies are just not sufficient no matter who the opponent is. It's just impossible to re-create a big tournament environment in a friendly even if both teams have their A rosters.

If the US can get into Copa America 2024, that's a start. But I have no idea how they can manage that and the Olympics in the same summer and that says nothing of the fact that clubs wouldn't be required to release players for Copa America 2024 because it's not our continental tourney.

Historically, that's been a massive impediment to the development of the USMNT. Will be amplified even more over the next 4 years given they won't go through WC qualifying. How can they get big game experience at the international level? It would be nice if FIFA would sanction some official tourneys between WCs that can give nations outside of Europe an opportunity to play each other...a "Rest of the World" Cup every 4 years in between World Cups. Top 2 countries from each confederation not named UEFA and Oceania (sorry New Zealand).
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wangus12
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1:01p, 12/7/22
AG
I honestly really like someone else's idea from Reddit. CONMEBOL and CONCACAF just need to join together as "The Americas". Granted that doesn't really benefit them so it'll never happen
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Dre_00
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In reply to wangus12 • 1:14p, 12/7/22
It absolutely does from a $$$ perspective. It's been a theory for a long time now but never realistic (in my opinion). However, now that the World Cup has expanded to 48 teams, it feels at least a little more plausible.
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JJxvi
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1:16p, 12/7/22
AG
It will actually inevitably happen. Liga MX and MLS will continue to grow much bigger in terms of revenue and competition compared to all other leagues in the hemisphere, to the point where each side can make more money with pan-American competitions.

The only question is whether that looks like North America leaving CONCACAF for CONMEBOL, or leaving with Central America as well, or a full merger including the Caribbean.
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oh no
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1:17p, 12/7/22
AG
part of the gig for concacaf teams. you get your concacaf cups and qualifiers with each other and you get whatever friendlies you can schedule.


re: Copa America, what are the odds USA can get themselves invited to that again? It's been since 2016 when we were a host. The non-conmebol teams in the last Copa America were supposed to be Australia and Qatar but they withdrew due to covid restrictions. Before that, it was Japan and Qatar. USA was last invited to participate in 2007 and 1995 previous to the 2016 one.


we do have so many players in our pool for clubs in Europe that there are some Intl windows where the staff could have camps and schedule friendlies across the pond instead of flying all the players state-side for some windows.
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deadbq03
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1:22p, 12/7/22
AG
I think merging is mutually beneficial.

For CONMEBOL, having extra trash isn't a bad thing… depending on the structure of competitions, having some fodder is a good thing. Consider the structure of UEFA WCQ where each group has 1 or 2 teams that are sheer trash. They'd also have a better chance to get some teams in… I'd wager that more likely than not, a Peru gets in over a Costa Rica.

And while this is increasingly less problematic, it would be good for CONMEBOL to have a pool of US stadiums it can fall back on at the drop of a hat if there's political unrest in a country that was supposed to host Copa.
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jeffk
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2:28p, 12/7/22
AG
Interesting read.

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LeonardSkinner
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In reply to jeffk • 3:33p, 12/7/22
Sometimes I wonder… did that need to be an article? I mean, he literally gave us the main point, and the most relevant supporting material, in that tweet.
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jeffk
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In reply to LeonardSkinner • 3:45p, 12/7/22
AG
Yeah, it's a quick read for sure. By the time you eliminate ad space and graphics, a lot of online only short articles are only a couple good paragraphs.
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aggiebird02
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3:54p, 12/7/22
I like Gregg, I hope we give him another cycle…
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tysker
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In reply to jeffk • 4:34p, 12/7/22
AG
There's also a trend for higher quality national teams to use managers from that country. Some say its because of well established tactics and cultural connections. I think its likely more that countries with better soccer players also have better soccer managers available to coach and countries want hire from within.
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oh no
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6:04p, 12/7/22
AG
I saw on Reddit that USA might host copa America like they did in 2016!!!
That would be huge
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deadbq03
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In reply to oh no • 6:12p, 12/7/22
AG
oh no said:
I saw on Reddit that USA might host copa America like they did in 2016!!!
That would be huge
Makes a ton of sense for them since we're hosting the WC.
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KCup17
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In reply to PatAg • 11:31p, 12/7/22
AG
PatAg said:
wangus12 said:
KCup17 said:
Whoever the coach is it is imperative that this group of players get as much competitive game time with the USMNT as possible.
Problem there is we are stuck with CONCACAF competitions that make us play inferior opponents way too often. Hard to get challenging friendlies because of all the regional international competitions now.
Yep, while CONCACAF has improved it's still not enough on its own. The qualifying is nice to get players in difficult environements on the road, just due to the conditions they play in.
The players are really going to have to get the majority of the work done themselves in their various club situations. Then the manager just needs to be good tactically speaking (very simplified way of stating that)

Between now and WC 2026 we have:
Copa America, 2 Gold Cups, Nations league and 2024 Olympics. Gotta try to really go for it in those competitions.
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oh no
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11:01a, 12/8/22
AG
United States to host 2024 Copa America? CONCACAF president responds to 'speculation' after Ecuador back out https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/united-states-host-2024-copa-america-concacaf-president-responds-speculation-ecuador/blt5774783a475fa9bd
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Dre_00
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In reply to oh no • 12:31p, 12/8/22
That read very much like a "you jokers are not going to run this without me getting my slice of the pie" response from the CONCACAF president.
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Aston94
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12:44p, 12/8/22
AG
Quote:
My Gold Cup is mine, nobody talks [about] the Gold Cup other than me.

And people wonder why there is corruption in this sport.
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JJxvi
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12:48p, 12/8/22
AG
Who talks like that? Isnt he canadian?
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akm91
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In reply to JJxvi • 12:54p, 12/8/22
AG
Yes, he's canadian.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
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TRM
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11:14a, 12/10/22
AG
Is Regragui available in a couple weeks?
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oh no
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6:16p, 12/10/22
AG
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AustinScubaAg
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In reply to oh no • 6:22p, 12/10/22
AG
oh no said:


This is obvious to anyone with a brain.
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jeffk
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In reply to oh no • 6:59p, 12/10/22
AG
I don't doubt that's what the source said and it may be an issue for some player someday. I also think our players are smart enough to distinguish good coaching from bad regardless of whether the coach can check the "been in Europe" box.

Personally that last paragraph is the most important of that quote. (Really the whole article is worth reading.)
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Dre_00
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12:14a, 12/11/22
This gets into a really grey area that can be a bit dangerous. Mostly because you shouldn't let players influence who their national team coach too much even if they have a point. Right or wrong, where the reasoning is generated from and who drives it as almost as important as the reasoning itself.
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