***** USMNT vs The Netherlands WC R16 Game Thread (12/3) *****

63,252 Views | 1293 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by aggiephoenix02
jeffk
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Supposedly he was told the symposium where the quotes were delivered was off the record. Buuuuuut you kind of have to know that's never 100% guaranteed true.
deadbq03
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It was at a leadership conference not focused on sports.

Again, I think this was probably innocent, but also highly careless.

It's certainly not as malicious in my book as say, the Fran newsletters. In both cases, the outrage is primarily due to public opinion of the on-field results. If we had made a run to the semi-finals, and looked good doing it - nearly everyone would be singing a different tune.
TRM
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I didn't know this. A couple weeks ago Wynalda said Berhalter asked Reyna to lie about his condition, but later retracted it.

OregonAggie
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TRM said:

I didn't know this. A couple weeks ago Wynalda said Berhalter asked Reyna to lie about his condition, but later retracted it.




Wynalda ended up retracting this shortly thereafter. Apparently he's close with the Reyna's though.

Wynalda is a sensationalist that loves to stir stuff up so I wouldn't trust it.
TRM
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I said he retracted it, but he mentions internal strife on the team as well.
OregonAggie
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I apparently lack reading comprehension this morning
jeffk
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In everyone's defense, Wynalda says a lot of *****
Furlock Bones
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OregonAggie said:

TRM said:

I didn't know this. A couple weeks ago Wynalda said Berhalter asked Reyna to lie about his condition, but later retracted it.




Wynalda ended up retracting this shortly thereafter. Apparently he's close with the Reyna's though.

Wynalda is a sensationalist that loves to stir stuff up so I wouldn't trust it.
at least he didn't pull a Grant Wahl and Landon Donovan stunt of making the story about Weston bigger than it was in order to promote their podcast that launched a day later.
Furlock Bones
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jeffk said:

Supposedly he was told the symposium where the quotes were delivered was off the record. Buuuuuut you kind of have to know that's never 100% guaranteed true.
honestly, if he believed that, he's an idiot. even so saying that a week after getting knocked out of the WC is idiotic.
oh no
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jeffk
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https://www.foxsports.com/stories/soccer/in-the-gio-reyna-controversy-there-are-no-winners
TRM
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If you don't fit in, we don't want you. - Yedlin

Probably why Haji made it over Pepi.
Rudyjax
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TRM said:

If you don't fit in, we don't want you. - Yedlin

Probably why Haji made it over Pepi.
Probably ONE of the reasons why Pefok didn't make it in.

If you can only speak to 2 players on the team.... it's difficult.
TXAggie2011
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Furlock Bones said:

jeffk said:

Supposedly he was told the symposium where the quotes were delivered was off the record. Buuuuuut you kind of have to know that's never 100% guaranteed true.
honestly, if he believed that, he's an idiot. even so saying that a week after getting knocked out of the WC is idiotic.
I do think it's not unreasonable to expect "off the record" to mean "off the record" in many settings. Media and those attending meetings/symposia where it has been made clear the expectation, it's not unreasonable in many cases to expect that is followed. I've had to navigate "off the record" vs "Chatham House" vs "open meeting" or whatever at times. I take that seriously.

That said, you need to understand the audience and who is actually attending to judge whether its reasonable to expect the rules are followed. That might have been his mistake.

I'm not sure there is a better time if you're going to make comments about it. 3.5 years out from the next World Cup, gives maximum time to cool off, learn from it, and be better.

If you're Gio, you're at a club where playing time is already competitive, there's constantly going to be new guys behind you pushing for their chance, you've had some injury problems, you absolutely can't have behavior issues. Maybe a real kick to the balls is best long term, as painful and awkward as it is right now
Aston94
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Chuck Cunningham said:

Aston94 said:

I just don't understand Gregg at all. Why in the world would he feel like sharing this would be beneficial for him, the team, or Gio? What is the upside of dealing with this?

Players are not going to want to play for Gregg anymore, if they do something wrong is he going to run to the media with it? Dealing with things in house means keeping it in house.

Stuff like this might leak out over time, an asst Coach or player might let it slip. But the head coach the week after you get eliminated? Absolutely moronic.

I was thinking along these lines when I asked this, "Any possibility that Ggg thought he was off the record and the reporter reported it hoping it would hurt his renewal situation?"


Well it was a symposium, which means to me he said it to a group of 50-100 people? All it takes is one to run to a reporter?

If he is naive enough to think comments like that aren't going to get out then he has no business managing a national team anyway.
Rudyjax
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jeffk said:

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/soccer/in-the-gio-reyna-controversy-there-are-no-winners
Holy Jesus Ferrerra....

The level of disfunction of US Soccer is ridiculous.

Gio is told he's not going to start. He pouts.
He gets called out on it.
Papa Reyna and Mama Reyna get pissed at their lifetime friend.
Papa Reyna cries to Stewart and McBride.

Add in Yedlin's quote, and it's amazing we got past iran.
TXAggie2011
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Aston94 said:

Chuck Cunningham said:

Aston94 said:

I just don't understand Gregg at all. Why in the world would he feel like sharing this would be beneficial for him, the team, or Gio? What is the upside of dealing with this?

Players are not going to want to play for Gregg anymore, if they do something wrong is he going to run to the media with it? Dealing with things in house means keeping it in house.

Stuff like this might leak out over time, an asst Coach or player might let it slip. But the head coach the week after you get eliminated? Absolutely moronic.

I was thinking along these lines when I asked this, "Any possibility that Ggg thought he was off the record and the reporter reported it hoping it would hurt his renewal situation?"
Well it was a symposium, which means to me he said it to a group of 50-100 people? All it takes is one to run to a reporter?

If he is naive enough to think comments like that aren't going to get out then he has no business managing a national team anyway.
It was an invitation only event and apparently someone from the organizing think tank permitted/cleared the comments for publication. No one went rogue, it sounds like. That's just a really bad screw up by the organizers, I think
tysker
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TRM said:

If you don't fit in, we don't want you. - Yedlin

Probably why Haji made it over Pepi.
Haji was one reason Dortmund scouted CP in the first place. I would not be surprised if CP pulled a string on that roster spot.
deadbq03
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I don't think Yedlin is wrong here.

Throughout this tournament, there have been teams that are cohesive and play for each other beating cluster-F's that are more-talented. Belgium is the prime example of the latter. Supposedly KdB and Courtois haven't talked to each other in years. Supposedly they had to break up fights in their practices. Maybe those are just ugly rumors but it's more than plausible given the outcome.

I don't have a problem if we have occasional guys who get overlooked because they aren't good fits. But if it happens too frequently, I do think it speaks to poor leadership. I don't think we've crossed that line yet, but we could get there pretty quickly depending on the fallout from this.
PatAg
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None of those players should give a damn what Yedlin thinks, and there is no way he should even be in the player pool for the next world cup. So why does he matter?
TRM
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https://instagr.am/p/CmE_QazJeDF

Caption:
jeffk
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AustinScubaAg
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Chuck Cunningham said:

jeffk said:

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/soccer/in-the-gio-reyna-controversy-there-are-no-winners
Holy Jesus Ferrerra....

The level of disfunction of US Soccer is ridiculous.

Gio is told he's not going to start. He pouts.
He gets called out on it.
Papa Reyna and Mama Reyna get pissed at their lifetime friend.
Papa Reyna cries to Stewart and McBride.

Add in Yedlin's quote, and it's amazing we got past iran.
I do not know what to take from this article. Lots of speculation on what occurred though.

I will say that this quote "Berhalter went to huge lengths to foster a positive environment within the American squad and by all accounts he succeeded." Could be part of the problem. Team dynamic is important but you also have highly talented players which tends to bring egos into the mix. It is a balancing act. Maybe this is the future with the everybody is a winner generation but does not seem GGG knows how to deal with this kind of player.

GGG may also be dealing with the fact that his understanding of the game is not at the same level of the managers they work at there clubs.
AustinScubaAg
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TRM said:

https://instagr.am/p/CmE_QazJeDF

Caption:

Well this started out as a good response but the last paragraph could have been left unsaid. It will just fan the flames.
Dre_00
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tysker said:

Or he got sick of the 'why not play Gio more' question and told the truth. Or should we perpetuate the Gio is a injury prone player myth?
Come ONNNNNN man.

He's THE NATIONAL TEAM MANAGER. If he can't handle getting asked a question like that and reacts by throwing his ENTIRE process under the bus, then he's not fit for ANY coaching job in soccer let alone the job he holds. Hundreds of coaches get asked stupid ass questions over and over again about players they don't particularly care for or are constant problems. Most of them don't respond with "Yeah, that guy sucks but we fixed it in house".
KCup17
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I'm thinking that's it's probably why Pefok got left at home. Pepi has in terrible form up until a month before the WC and by that time he was too low on the depth chart to make up ground.
TRM
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The latter part of the last paragraph was fine. The 1st part of it I agree should go, but I bet he cleared it with his agent before posting it.
Dre_00
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Aston94 said:

Chuck Cunningham said:

Aston94 said:

I just don't understand Gregg at all. Why in the world would he feel like sharing this would be beneficial for him, the team, or Gio? What is the upside of dealing with this?

Players are not going to want to play for Gregg anymore, if they do something wrong is he going to run to the media with it? Dealing with things in house means keeping it in house.

Stuff like this might leak out over time, an asst Coach or player might let it slip. But the head coach the week after you get eliminated? Absolutely moronic.

I was thinking along these lines when I asked this, "Any possibility that Ggg thought he was off the record and the reporter reported it hoping it would hurt his renewal situation?"


Well it was a symposium, which means to me he said it to a group of 50-100 people? All it takes is one to run to a reporter?

If he is naive enough to think comments like that aren't going to get out then he has no business managing a national team anyway.

This 100%. Whether it was leaked by an attendee or some consultant said "sure release that" for some reason, doesn't matter. It's a ridiculously stupid thing to put out in a public setting...especially one with so many attendees. It's one thing to speak off the record to a single journalist and then for that journalist to go rogue. It's completely another to tell something like that to literally dozens (hundreds?) of people. Did these people sign a NDA or something? Hell no.

I agree with others that there probably wasn't malintent on his part. But that doesn't excuse the incredibly gross incompetence and outright absurdity of saying it. Gross incompetence is more than enough reason for him to move on along.
Unemployed
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Berhalter needs to go. No way US Soccer can keep him after this.
fig96
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Not to mention managing egos is like 50% of a national team managers job.

You think the US is tough? Try England, France, Brazil, etc…
TRM
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Interesting to see who has liked Gio's statement and who hasn't...
OregonAggie
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No problem with anything Gio said. I'm glad he made a statement that admitted fault but also poked Berhalter.

We definitely need a new manager!
Knucklesammich
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When all your best players are still very young and very much developing talents it can lead to a void in leadership on the team. That's what I feel is happening here.

I love Tyler Adams, but when your captain is 23 (and I believe he is the best choice for the role at this time) that speaks to a gap that this particular group has.

Gio didn't get the answer he liked and pouted about it. He paid the price, owned it and moved on. The issues leaked (how could they not given his skill level and absence from games) so now its become a referendum on the coach for right or wrong.

I take this all as part of growing pain of a hopefully transformational generation of US soccer players.
Aston94
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TRM said:

Interesting to see who has liked Gio's statement and who hasn't...
Gio didn't have any choice but to respond....which is reason number 1000 why Gregg shouldn't have said what he did in the first place.

Gio admitted he was partially at fault, apologized to the team and moved on.

Why was he told he would have a limited role at the WC? Why did Gregg need to relay any of this to others, whether he thought it would remain private or not?

Gregg is supposed to be the older, more mature person in the room, as the National Team Manager. Just idiotic.
LeonardSkinner
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I'm mostly indifferent to Berhalter at this point. Whatever you can say about his hiring and performance to date, has been said. I hope we get someone who can take us to the next level.

That said, I'm on his side when it comes to the Reyna situation. Based on what seems to be the closest version of the truth, Reyna didn't earn time on the pitch, and seemed to make the situation worse. And speaking only for myself, I would rather have a guy who goes 100% all the time as opposed to the one who goes 150% half the time.

Clearly, Berhalter is of similar opinion, because he rode MMA until their legs gave out.

 
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