***** USMNT vs The Netherlands WC R16 Game Thread (12/3) *****

66,580 Views | 1293 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by aggiephoenix02
TRM
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Agthatbuilds
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TRM said:


aggiephoenix02
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Bruce Arena is the answer; we should have given him a lifetime contact…
Pahdz
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I mean c'mon that's funny. Chuck probably laughed at it too
i is smart
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Gregg got us out of the group and I won't bad mouth him, but I hope we move on to a new coach for the next cycle.
fig96
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Also worth noting: the speed they counter at is unreal and left us totally disorganized.

OregonAggie
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I think this team is a striker away from being great. We need a striker to come forward in the next 4 years that can be a consistent threat because all the other pieces are there. Pretty solid defense, great midfield, and really good options on the wing.

I think Gregg did a very good job in this World Cup overall and I lay the blame today more on the players vs the coach. Robinson, Dest, and Adams are at fault for not marking on all of our goals, which wasn't really a system problem. That's an individual mistake problem.

The worst thing that could happen to us was the Dutch squad getting a lead because we had to push the game on them and it brought our guys out of position and open to counters. The Dutch team had no issues absorbing pressure and then just attacking our wings exposed by Robinson and Dest being so far upfield.

Still proud of this team and I'm looking forward to seeing what these guys do individually before the next World Cup.
PatAg
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MookieBlaylock said:

National team coaches are usually 2 cycles

He took a team and program in utter shambles and put in a system that works

I have no problem seeing what the next level is in his system
And where it can go



They are not usually 2 cycles
fig96
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MookieBlaylock said:

National team coaches are usually 2 cycles

He took a team and program in utter shambles and put in a system that works

I have no problem seeing what the next level is in his system
And where it can go



Arena is the only coach in US Soccer history to manage the team for more than 5 years.
Dre_00
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Lots of people want to see Gregg gone which I understand and even agree to but mostly due to the fact that that national teams shouldn't keep a coach for two full cycles (in most cases) not because he obviously underperformed for 4 years.

And lots of people say (insert any "big" European manager here) would be an obvious upgrade etc. etc. But replacing him with just anyone from Europe is highly flawed.

We can argue about how effective he was in deploying the strategy but the type of game and team he tried to build is probably the one you have to build in order for the best chance of becoming elite. There aren't many teams who have historically succeeded exclusively with counter ball. Maybe the closest would be an Italy but I'd hardly say that defensive solidity = counter ball.

Ideally you bring in a better in game manager who can keep the general strategy deployed but do it better. But if my choices are to hire an elite European coach who would completely start over from square 1 or going with Berhalter and see what happens, I hold my nose and go with Berhalter.
deadbq03
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This isn't a perfect analogy at all, but I think Ggg = Mike Sherman. And for context, Mike Sherman is my favorite coach of ours since I became an Ag in 1999 (I wasn't an Aggie until I stepped on campus, so I carry zero fondness for RC/Jackie).

Ggg and Sherm took over teams that were in shambles.

Both weren't ready for coaching at a different level of the game and had to learn a lot on the job. Both did learn and got better.

Both built teams that had good chemistry and worked hard for each other.

Both recruited well and made the roster much stronger than when they arrived.

Both did pretty well getting a team prepared for games.

Both lacked the ability to close games out.

Where they differ is that I have a strong feeling that if Sherm hadn't been canned, he would've done due diligence to improve. I'm far less confident that Ggg is willing to bend and address our woes on offense.

I won't be immediately bitter if we're stuck with Ggg, but I do think it's time to move on. And if he stays, I hope I'm wrong about him and he does change his ideas on offense.
jeffk
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Maybe someone can stage an intervention and get CP to not take any more set piece kicks now too.
GoAgs92
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USA underwhelming as usual. 3 goals in 4 games is lousy lousy lousy, one of which was a total miracle.

Defense lousy.

Blah.
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jeffk
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We were the only team not to give up a goal from the run of play during the group stage. Also set defensive records during qualifying.

Thanks for tuning in I guess.
GoAgs92
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Defense yesterday was terrible, which is really the only game that matters.

Had an easy draw and barely squeaked through.
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AG@RICE
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In retrospect, we were too quick to give up on Ricardo Pepi. He was on fire in the middle of WCQ and looked like our future CF. He then left FC Dallas for Ausburg in the Bundesliga and floundered for a half a year. In September he was loaned Groningen in the Dutch league and has been on fire ever since: 7 goals in 10 games.

We needed him.
TXAggie2011
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A lot of our forwards could probably benefit from a spell in the Eredivisie…a league that demands that you ,and allows you to, unlock that ruthless taste for scoring goals we lack
Rudyjax
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GoAgs92 said:

Defense yesterday was terrible, which is really the only game that matters.

Had an easy draw and barely squeaked through.


Other than the Wales game, we played really well. Could've score more. Should've scored more.
PatAg
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I don't even think our defense was terrible on the whole. Just had 3 plays where tired players just sort of switched off
When I think of terrible defense, Im thinking of the defense as a whole getting shredded all game, and that wasn't the case

I don't know that I care what country the next coach is from, I just want him to be tactically adaptable and not treat it like a club team
I don't want a system we force player selection too. Look at our pool of players , and create tactics to employ them to their strengths.
I think Gregg has developed a lot in his time, and will probably get a good job somewhere. Will be interesting to see if he tries his hand in Europe somewhere or sticks with MLS.
GoAgs92
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Basically gave up the same goal three times.

I didnt expect a win but that overall performance was disappointing.
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MookieBlaylock
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,
GoAgs92
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As far as qualifying, CONCACAF was pretty awful….and we finished 3rd.

I will say it's nice to compete with Mexico after decades of getting beat.

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MookieBlaylock
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GoAgs92 said:

As far as qualifying, CONCACAF was pretty awful….and we finished 3rd.

I will say it's nice to compete with Mexico after decades of getting beat.




Decades? You just skip the last 30 years?
TXAggie2011
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GoAgs92 said:

As far as qualifying, CONCACAF was pretty awful….and we finished 3rd.

I will say it's nice to compete with Mexico after decades of getting beat.




Dos a cero, *****
tysker
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GoAgs92 said:

As far as qualifying, CONCACAF was pretty awful….and we finished 3rd.

I will say it's nice to compete with Mexico after decades of getting beat.



Coached by Tata Martino.
Basically Ggg>Tata
tysker
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PatAg said:

I don't even think our defense was terrible on the whole. Just had 3 plays where tired players just sort of switched off
When I think of terrible defense, Im thinking of the defense as a whole getting shredded all game, and that wasn't the case

I don't know that I care what country the next coach is from, I just want him to be tactically adaptable and not treat it like a club team
I don't want a system we force player selection too. Look at our pool of players , and create tactics to employ them to their strengths.
I think Gregg has developed a lot in his time, and will probably get a good job somewhere. Will be interesting to see if he tries his hand in Europe somewhere or sticks with MLS.

With so few of the players of the full team coming from MLS, it diminishes the need for a manager that 'knows' MLS and American players. That being said, MLS players will likely get time during odd FIFA windows and early rounds of tournaments like the Gold Cup
ColoradoMooseHerd
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GoAgs92 said:

As far as qualifying, CONCACAF was pretty awful….and we finished 3rd.

I will say it's nice to compete with Mexico after decades of getting beat.


What decades are you referring to 60's to 80's?

USA vs Mexico list of matches
GoAgs92
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US didn't beat Mexico for 46 years.

Know your history. We are on equal footing now and it's nice but we got a long way to go.
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aggiephoenix02
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GoAgs92 said:

US didn't beat Mexico for 46 years.

Know your history. We are on equal footing now and it's nice but we got a long way to go.
We've been on equal footing or better than Mexico since the 90's, bro…
jeffk
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I was beginning to worry that the TA World Cup **** posting was going to taper off now that the US was out.
zgolfz85
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I was tricking myself into thinking we wanted Netherlands over Senegal. Clearly that was just me in denial after seeing what England did to them today
PatAg
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I do wonder about non English speaking managers, at some point you have to be able to communicate your message.
If we had to qualify, I'd say they would need to demonstrate an understanding of what qualifying in concacadf entails but that won't matter this time
aggiephoenix02
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With the expanded field of teams, we'll never not qualify again. It'll take some of the drama and fun out of things, but we'll always qualify. We'll be able to focus even more on building and tinkering with the team for the actual World Cup, instead of focusing on just getting through qualifying. This will benefit us greatly…
Gordo14
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PatAg said:

I do wonder about non English speaking managers, at some point you have to be able to communicate your message.
If we had to qualify, I'd say they would need to demonstrate an understanding of what qualifying in concacadf entails but that won't matter this time


I think I read it was 15 of the 16 knockout teams had a coach from thier country (S. Korea being the exception).
GoAgs92
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aggiephoenix02 said:

GoAgs92 said:

US didn't beat Mexico for 46 years.

Know your history. We are on equal footing now and it's nice but we got a long way to go.
We've been on equal footing or better than Mexico since the 90's, bro…
Mostly because they have gotten worse.

We didn't even make it last time…clearly we are doing great…and are just a few unlucky bounces away…

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