I've heard it said that a purple belt knows all the techniques of a blackbelt, he is just unrefined.

Does anyone else think that saying doesn't apply any more? It may have been true back in the early/mid90's. It would seem impossible now given BJJ's adoption of leg locks, the proliferation of No-gi, and the adaptation of more wrestling (Catch & Greco) into BJJ.

Thoughts?

Apache said:

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I've heard it said that a purple belt knows all the techniques of a blackbelt, he is just unrefined.

Does anyone else think that saying doesn't apply any more? It may have been true back in the early/mid90's. It would seem impossible now given BJJ's adoption of leg locks, the proliferation of No-gi, and the adaptation of more wrestling (Catch & Greco) into BJJ.

Thoughts?

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Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with that quote...

AggieChemE09 said:

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Apache said:

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I've heard it said that a purple belt knows all the techniques of a blackbelt, he is just unrefined.

Does anyone else think that saying doesn't apply any more? It may have been true back in the early/mid90's. It would seem impossible now given BJJ's adoption of leg locks, the proliferation of No-gi, and the adaptation of more wrestling (Catch & Greco) into BJJ.

Thoughts?

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Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with that quote...

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My instructor said, at our last promotion ceremony, that "a Purple belt is doing some of the techniques on a Black Belt level."

I would take that to mean that some of the other stuff is obviously not at the black belt level. I do agree that the proliferation of No-gi & more wrestling is a game changer.

As Jocko said, back in the 90s a 3 stripe white belt cleaned house on a gym full of Navy Seals, because knowing 3-4 techniques was all that you needed. That wouldn't fly today.

If we're talking apples-to-apples types of students, I'd say the black belt on average will be more knowledgeable than the purple belt. Partially due to IBJJF rules around certain submissions/attacks (leg locks, compression subs, etc.) and partially due to just drifting around the BJJ scene longer (coaching, cross-training at other schools, etc.).

But if you compare a pan-am winning purple belt with a hobbyist black belt with a family, job, etc.....the purple will be both more knowledgeable and more skilled, refined, etc. They'll be fluent in knowing and doing things that most black belts don't (inversion, berimbolo, 50/50, etc.).

Sweep4-2 said:

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If we're talking apples-to-apples types of students, I'd say the black belt on average will be more knowledgeable than the purple belt. Partially due to IBJJF rules around certain submissions/attacks (leg locks, compression subs, etc.) and partially due to just drifting around the BJJ scene longer (coaching, cross-training at other schools, etc.).

But if you compare a pan-am winning purple belt with a hobbyist black belt with a family, job, etc.....the purple will be both more knowledgeable and more skilled, refined, etc. They'll be fluent in knowing and doing things that most black belts don't (inversion, berimbolo, 50/50, etc.).

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Agreed. I land more on the hobbist side. Although, my job is pretty flexible as far as getting to class in the evening goes, I'm not on the mat as much as some people. Plus, if I stay on "schedule", I'll be pushing 60 by the time I make black belt......probably not going to be in the market to compete with 21yr old purple belts.....

Yep. I fall into that category (50-something year old hobbyist black belt) and can definitely vouch for the fact that the physical skill, knowledge, relentless training schedule, etc of the 20-something year old competition purple overruns the cumulative years and belt of most older black belts.

One exception is the 'retired professional competitor' black belt sporting a bunch of degrees on their belt. Those guys can still bring it to the kids and it's fun to watch it.

I'm 99% sure I am going to go to a one week trial at the local BJJ spot...

Probably already gone over this, but what should I expect from my first few sessions?

Also, I have a really bad left shoulder that was prone to dislocation when I was younger; haven't done it in a long time, but I know that I mentally baby/favor it. Is that going to be a major issue/nonstarter for this type of thing?

CC09LawAg said:

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I'm 99% sure I am going to go to a one week trial at the local BJJ spot...

Probably already gone over this, but what should I expect from my first few sessions?

Also, I have a really bad left shoulder that was prone to dislocation when I was younger; haven't done it in a long time, but I know that I mentally baby/favor it. Is that going to be a major issue/nonstarter for this type of thing?

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You shouldn't be live sparring (what is referred to as 'rolling') during your first few sessions. That's a quick way to get discouraged.

You'll do a warmup and some stretching, and then you'll join in on whatever the fundamental/beginner class is doing. This will be anything from learning a basic takedown, learning how to pull a particular guard, learning a submission, and/or learning a choke. Most of which is a chain of events. Then you'll likely put it all together in drill situation with minimal resistance.

When you do start rolling, there's no shame in telling your partner to watch out for something that's ailing you. Tap early. Find an experienced upper belt or a very seasoned/experienced white belt who doesn't have an ego issue and won't be an a-hole.

CC09LawAg said:

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I'm 99% sure I am going to go to a one week trial at the local BJJ spot...

Probably already gone over this, but what should I expect from my first few sessions?

Also, I have a really bad left shoulder that was prone to dislocation when I was younger; haven't done it in a long time, but I know that I mentally baby/favor it. Is that going to be a major issue/nonstarter for this type of thing?

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First off, that's awesome, good for you, just go and don't give it a second thought. The first class is always the hardest. Show up early.

Expect to be terrible and confused on how to do things, even though they teach slowly. You might even feel good starting it but find yourself forgetting once you're actually drilling, and that's totally ok. I'm 4 weeks in and a few things are sticking, but it takes a lot of repetition for anything to stick as I'm 42 and never done anything like this or wrestled in school. Don't get discouraged though, just accept your lack of experience and that you're there to learn. I'm smaller than most people I've rolled with in my classes, but I don't care, you can learn regardless, it's just much harder if your partner is larger and stronger than you. Go slow and remember to breath, don't be spastic, be controlled.

You'll get tired, you might even get gassed during warmups if you're not in great shape, that's ok too. You'll be sore and sweaty, but in a good way, I've enjoyed each class regardless of how difficult what they teach is and how bad I am at it.

I don't know that I'd avoid white belts altogether, but definitely the lower ones. The worst classes I've had are when I'm partnered with another white belt with no stripes or one stripe because we're both so new to this. Upper level white belts have a lot of knowledge and have been great partners for me. They'll go slower and know how to practice without hurting you. Odds are they'll partner you with an experienced person so you have a good class.

Tell your partner if you have any joint issues and they'll make sure to pay attention. Last night one of the things we worked on were kimuras and neither my partner nor myself had any problems doing that slow so that we wouldn't injure each other. Talk to your partner, ask questions about what they're doing and what you're doing wrong, it's a really supportive environment.

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Side note: there's generally music playing during our classes, nothing loud or aggressive, or even really noticeable. Last night during drilling a cover of Wicked Game starts playing and pretty much everyone looked up at the same time and just started laughing. I get that if they played aggressive music people might get a little rowdy but there's also a line the other way that probably doesn't need to be crossed.

Wicked Game is so good tho

Thanks for the feedback all - I've always played sports where injuries would happen by accident, but never done any kind of martial arts so wasn't sure how much of the training involved live simulation of yanking/pulling. But good to know that the environment and style allows for some more measured training.

One thing to watch out for is falling. It's a part of the sport and you need to learn how to fall. Remember, the mats are there for a reason and don't put your arm out to try and stop yourself.

For the record. I advise staying away from white belts until you figure out how your shoulder holds up.

There is nothing more fun than watching two newish white belts going at it, and I wouldn't want anyone to think I am against that.

Have fun and enjoy the trial classes! Solid advice from the other posters on the thread (re being careful, taking things slow, feeling awkward at first, etc.).

Not sure if others mentioned it, but if you have the option/availability I'd recommend checking out multiple schools before you sign-up. Different schools have different cultures, cater to different types of students, offer different schedules, etc. and the enjoyment you get out of the sport is partially the sport....but also a large part the environment, coaching, fellow students, etc.

But have fun and let us know how it goes!

Any of y'all go to (or try) 10th planet?
There's one opening up 10 minutes from my house. My gym doesn't offer much in the way of No-Gi & I thought it would be nice to get more reps in there

Never been to 10th Planet, but I've rolled with the 'non-traditional' folks from 10th P, Dark Planet, Underground, etc. from time to time. Definitely a different focus with different techniques, and always fun to add more to the toolbox to mix it into what you're already learning (and just to meet new folks).

I like their non-traditional focus and teaching of leg lock entries really early into the journey. But I also hate it when I"m training with a blue/purple level belt and they give up on guard passing and surrender top position b/c their passing and top game is stuck at white belt level due to focus only on leg entanglement and guard.

But that being said, some of those darn blue/purples have put the hurt on me and had me running scared with leg locks and guards that I've never/rarely seen haha.

In Oak Hill? Where exactly is it? I can't seem to find where the new location is.

Apache said:

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Any of y'all go to (or try) 10th planet?
There's one opening up 10 minutes from my house. My gym doesn't offer much in the way of No-Gi & I thought it would be nice to get more reps in there

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I'm given to understand that 10th Planet is also known for herbal enhancement before they roll........not judging...all due respect.....

So there is a new gym opening in my area that is Gracie Barra, the one I was looking at isn't but has been around awhile.

Is there a noticeable difference? Is it a personal preference?

Im trying to decide if I should wait for the new place if it's just head and shoulders better….totally clueless on this stuff.

It's really a matter of 'fit' between what you're looking for and what the schools offer. I've trained at two Gracie Barra schools for most of my 15 years in the sport and view the schools as excellent. And I've visited at least 7 other GB locations (all good). But I also trained at a Carlson Gracie school for two years (smaller, MMA focused) and it was great too. Just different approaches and business models.

just curious…what is the general area and what is the other school you're looking at? Might be able to offer up contrast between the two.

That's it. Near what used to be Austin Pizza Co. not open yet but soon

I've been going to a GB school and it's been great for me as a beginner. Belts of all levels train there and they have fundamentals classes for adults that I've been going to.

Finally caught Covid & has sidelined me for almost 2 weeks.
Can't wait to get back on the mats, but I'm not looking forward to my cardio conditioning.

Max Power, you still rolling?

Max Power said:

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I've been to every class I can attend so far, went every Monday and Wednesday the last five weeks so I'm 10 classes deep now. The gym was closed this week for the holidays but I'll be back on Monday night. Work finally slowed down so I'm hoping to start going to the Tuesday and Thursday classes if possible since I'm done working at 5 instead of 7.

I'm still enjoying it, I get a little bit of satisfaction seeing people come in, take their free class, and not come back. I get that it's not for everyone, I'm just curious why any individual goes out on a limb to try it but not again. The first class is always the hardest class. Maybe it's hard for people to continue doing something they're bad at, but that is what motivates me to keep at it. I did roll with another no stripe white belt a couple of weeks ago and had a good experience. We are about the same age and size, we were both going slow, trying to learn, and not get hurt. I was apprehensive to roll with another person without any stripes again but I was pleasantly surprised.

I'm curious if since next week is the new year if there's an influx of people with New Years resolutions. I hope not since our classes are pretty full already.

I can also confirm it's continuing to help on the mental health side as well. Especially here in the Midwest when the winter is full of grey cloudy days. It's nice to have an activity to look forward to at the end of the day.

On the humorous side my wife told my daughter that I've been going to ninja class at night because saying jiu jitsu doesn't really register with a 7 year old. Every time I'm about to leave my daughter yells out "Hiyah!" I haven't really corrected her because it makes me laugh every time she does it.

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Well done. Keep it up.

If you don't mind me asking, where in the Midwest are you? Displaced Texan here as well, for the time being.

First time back on the mats in a month or so (due to a thumb injury). Dropped in at a friends' school that they just opened and had a great time. Really fun to be back rolling and to see new folks at a new school enjoying training.

I'm in the STL suburbs.

Max Power said:

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I'm in the STL suburbs.

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I'm 90 min from you. My instructor goes down to STL once a week and rolls with JW Wright, (3rd degree Blackbelt) at the Gracie Humaita academy there. I've never been but its supposed to be a great gym. JW comes up a couple of times a year for seminars etc.

Royler will be at my gym in February. Holler at me if you're interested.

I appreciate the offer, hard to get out of town with how busy my daughter keeps us.

Last night was the first time I've had the chance to go to back to back classes. Work finally slowed down so I can go tot he 6:30 classes on Tuesday and Thursday. Got some tweaks so far this week. My entire left lat charlie-horsed on me Tuesday night. Last night was my first time working arm bars and my partner was significantly bigger/stronger than me, I'm about 175 and he was easily 225+, just a bigger/stronger guy. He was going slow and I definitely feel it in my elbow today. It was hard for me to learn because his frame was just bigger than mine so getting my legs into position was pretty much impossible. It wasn't even a flexibility thing, he was just big. I don't have any issue rolling with bigger guys but it definitely makes learning more difficult, granted I understand the value as you don't get to always have the perfect opponent.

Odd question but is it normal to feel guilty when rolling with more experienced people? To an extent it makes me feel guilty because I know they're not getting as much learning out of the experience as they would be if they were with someone of equal or greater skill. I know we're all there to learn from each other. I've never been made to feel bad by my partners, and I make it a point to be gracious for partnering with me because of how inexperienced I am, and because I do appreciate it. I never want anyone to feel like they wasted an hour of their day by partnering with me, but they at least know I keep showing up regardless of how bad I am. I'll try to make it tonight as well if possible.

New people seem to be showing up pretty regularly right now, I'm guessing part of the new years health rush. I respect that they come in and try, the retention rate seems pretty low to me since I've been there. People come in, take a class, and don't come back. Last night I think there were 4 on their free trial class, the mats were really crowded.

Quote:

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it makes me feel guilty because I know they're not getting as much learning out of the experience as they would be if they were with someone of equal or greater skill. I know we're all there to learn from each other.

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1. If they are more experienced than you, they've been at your level & understand it is all part of the process.

2. When you roll with more experienced belts, it is an opportunity for them to work on perfecting moves that wouldn't work on higher belts. I have been working armbars non-stop on white belts & hitting them. On browns & black belts, they feel my telegraphed moves from a mile away & are able to avoid/escape.

3. Not in every case, but some of the higher belts might like rolling with you as an ego boost after getting destroyed by a better training partner.

4. Speaking personally, I get enjoyment out of showing new guys some basic BJJ 101 stuff. Lots of other folks do to.

I appreciate the perspective, I guarantee it's easier on anyone more experienced than me who's trying to improve technique. Maybe it's just a new guy thing that I feel guilty because of how bad I am.

I can tell I get different things out of the classes dependent upon what they teach for the day and who I'm partnered with. Size difference really complicates things, going on the offensive with anyone significantly larger than me is pretty much impossible. However, I am able to try to see how long I can last defensively and try to escape if possible. It's easier to reinforce how important it is to keep your arms close when rolling with anyone bigger and stronger. If I can't overpower them I need to pay attention to exactly what I'm doing with my body at all times. That's a lesson that might not be as easy to pick up on with smaller partners.

I know that's a relatively small thing to learn but I'm trying to pick up on the positives when I'm at a physical disadvantage. Otherwise it's easy to get down on myself. I don't mind tapping one bit, I just hope that the work leads to growth. I can't think of an activity I've ever done with this kind of learning curve. I've never played a sport where nothing comes naturally to me. I feel like a fish out of water almost every minute I'm there, but I'm determined to keep going.

To put it into basketball perspective I feel like this:

Apache said:

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Quote:

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it makes me feel guilty because I know they're not getting as much learning out of the experience as they would be if they were with someone of equal or greater skill. I know we're all there to learn from each other.

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1. If they are more experienced than you, they've been at your level & understand it is all part of the process.

2. When you roll with more experienced belts, it is an opportunity for them to work on perfecting moves that wouldn't work on higher belts. I have been working armbars non-stop on white belts & hitting them. On browns & black belts, they feel my telegraphed moves from a mile away & are able to avoid/escape.

3. Not in every case, but some of the higher belts might like rolling with you as an ego boost after getting destroyed by a better training partner.

4. Speaking personally, I get enjoyment out of showing new guys some basic BJJ 101 stuff. Lots of other folks do to.

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I agree with all of this.


I try for the split of 30% of rolls against better opponents to work on defense, 30% of rolls against worse opponents to work on offense, and then 40% against even competition to stay sharp.

Without practicing techniques on lower belts, my offensive attacks would be very limited. We need white/blue belts to work on improving and diversifying our offense.