fossil_ag, Paul Cain passed away last fall. I believe he was 94. What a true West Texas gentleman he was. His son, John Paul, moved back to Sweetwater a few years ago to take care of his dad. He and his wife Carol still live here. They are both really nice people.

SW AG

Jerry Bob is hilarious! We grew up listening to stories of his and Dads junior high and high school adventures. They did stuff we'd be in jail for today. Something about stealing watermelons, leaving a badger in a bag in a local restaurant, putting a skunk in a teachers desk, etc. Can't remember all of them but they're definately entertaining. The badger thing might not have been him but it's a great story. Ask him about them sometime. But don't tell him who told you.

[This message has been edited by TERRY L (edited 7/29/2006 1:58a).]

Wow...I can't belive I haven't found this thread until tonight!! I'm so glad I did! Fossilag, I truly enjoy your storys of west texas. I grew up between Midland and Lubbock in the tiny community of Klondike, and I drive through many of the places you've mentioned on my way home from CS. Many of your storys remind me of storys my father, grandfather, and great-grandfather have told me since I was a little girl. You're great! Keep up the posts!

TayAg08. Welcome to the forum. We know where Klondike is in Dawson County. Most of the visitors on this thread have familial roots in West Texas communities no larger than Klondike so in a sense you are among kinfolks here.

In addition, we are virtually all connected by the convergence of our lives at one time or other sharing the trail from I-20 (US Hwy80) to Abilene thence Hwy 36 to Caldwell to BCS; or to Eastland thence Hwy 6 to BCS.

Our way of life is changing so rapidly these days it is difficult to appreciated how far our families have come ... unless you take the time and effort to look back a generation or two and examine the difference. You are fortunate to have been in the presence of grandfathers and great-grandfathers to share their experiences.

Feel free to chime in on any subject at any opportunity.

Some of you may be interested to know that a topic I started in the Outdoors Forum entitled "Unusual Wildlife Observations When Hunting and Fishing" had just gone over 109 Replies and 5,201 Views. Some of the observations reported there are very interesting and if you have not visited the Outdoor Forum you might give it a looksee.

I am also a bit amazed that the two topics I have instigated have been visited more than 5,000 times each. I did not realize there would be that much interest in West Texas and wild animal antics.

I think about 2500 of those views may be due to me checking the thread 5 times a day to see your latest post....just kidding...

I finally started looking at the time of the last post so I don't actually open the thread multiple times on the same day....by the way...isn't it time for a new post?

FossilAg,
I am a Southeast Texan from the "used-to-be" small town of Katy. The population in Katy was 1760 in 1970 when we moved there. We now call Midland home, and like Midland Aggie would not leave here voluntarily.

Thank you so much for sharing these West Texas Stories they are fantastic to say the very least.

I have compiled them into a MS Word document for my "bored" 12 year old daughter to read before school starts. Some priceless history we have heard and first-hand in many cases which makes it real.

Now if you don't mind I have a question:
I scanned and read through as much as I could in my attempt to cut and paste this for my daughter, but I did not see something that has to have a story. We drive from Midland to Katy via Big Lake and Ozona, so I have to know...

Who pulled the plug on Big Lake?

LoudestWhoop

For sure Big Lake once had a Big Lake as evidenced by the description of the early days of the town in the following link:

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/BB/hgb7.html

With all the oil activity around there perhaps it suffered the same fate as Lake Peignoir near New Iberia, La. (See page 6 of this thread.) West Texas oil drilling was plagued with underground caverns in the limestone zones. A well drilled across the road from our house in the early 50s hit such a cavern and lost circulation of drilling mud for more than a month. Halliburton sat on the hole for all that time trying to plug the "leak." There wasn't enough oil in all of Fisher County to make that well break even. (No one drilled another well within 10 miles of that place.)

Also, what happened to the Big Lake lake may be what is occurring all over West Texas. So many stock tanks for cattle water are being dug on all big ranches that comprise the water shed of those older lakes that there is not enough water left to keep the lakes up. Sweetwater Lake is a good example ... 40-50 years ago it was a beautiful lake but now it is almost dry. Oak Creek Lake up near Blackwell went dry a few years ago. I discussed that in another post about a month or so ago about the silting in of our creeks and rivers ... and the invasion of salt cedar ... as a result of terraces and stock tanks construction. The Code of the West still applies to rainwater in Texas ... if it falls on your property you can harvest it.



[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 8/3/2006 7:15p).]

Interesting story about the underground cavern in Fisher County, fossil. Do you have any idea how far below ground that cavern was? I never would have thought anything like that would exist here in the Big Country.

About the lakes going dry, I think your earlier post on brush invasion hit the nail on the head. Just one full-grown mesquite tree sucks up something like 75,000 gallons of water per year, four of those trees and an acre-foot of water is gone; cedars are even worse. If the state of Texas would embark on a massive brush control project to clear thousands of acres of mesquites and cedars infesting Texas watersheds, I honestly believe that would solve almost all of our looming water shortage problems. A little of this took place down in the Concho watershed a couple of years ago, and some springs that had been dry for 50 years started flowing water again.

I think if you did this across West Texas, you'd see more springs flowing and more creeks constantly running water than any of us youngsters have seen in our lifetime.

fossil_ag,
I had heard a story from a Big Lake resident that a landowner with property adjacent to the lake had blown up the aquifers outlet that kept the lake full.
Maybe just a local tall tale?

My only roots outside of SE Texas are in Pampa, it may be West of SE Texas but not West Texas. I do love to visit SE Texas, for the lush green scenery and it was home for 20 years, but driving around in that traffic and hustle and bustle makes me long for the wide open spaces.

Did you know any Nolens from your neck of the Roby/Rotan "woods"?

LoudestWHOOP

My short answer to your question about the demise of the big lake at Big Lake is I do not know. However, there are folks who travel through this thread from time to time that may know the facts, or at least the dominant local theory.

The fact of the matter is that a lot of things have happened underground in West Texas over the past hundred years or so that even the groundwater experts would be surprised to know.

I do know that 60-70 years ago fresh water springs were not uncommon. Beside the larger ones that became the headwaters of creeks and rivers, it was not unusual to find small ones in gullys and draws when hunting on farms and ranches. Those small pools watered wildlife and livestock for many years. (My 1885 Pocket Map of Texas shows the location of water holes throughout the western counties.)

But then in the 1900s civilization began moving west. Hand dug wells and holes punched by cable tool drilling rigs began tapping into those underground streams for farmers and ranchers. I doubt those early digs had much impact on small aquifers but when towns began to spring up, the increased demand could have made an impact. But I tend to believe another culprit was introduced at that time, that over time was more the problem ... leakage from an aquifer.

Those early wells as a rule did not have casing set to separate one water bearing zone from another, or a non-productive zone. Water collected in the bottom of the borehole and was pumped out, that simple. A deeper well could collect water from zones above ... and in effect drain shallower water pays into the deeper aquifer. Maybe not a big deal early on but over time, those shallow aquifers that fed the springs lost their charge ... and the springs dried up.

This problem grew in West Texas with the introduction of deeper irrigation wells and oil wells. In the 20s and 30s I doubt there was any true oversight of drilling practices and I doubt much attention was paid to isolating water zones with casing to keep aquifers from intermixing ... and certainly drillers did not adquately plug the borehole if the well were to be abandoned. You can imagine the impact of an open 8 inch drain from a shallow aquifer into a lower zone over a 60-70 year period. Although the Railroad Commission has been working on this problem for several years, I suspect many old wells in West Texas have not yet been located. P&A (Plug and Abandon) of wells is now the law ... but not so in earlier times.

Another problem occurs when wells may have been properly cased but over time the casing has failed due to corrosion. I have heard tales of places like Dell City in the Pecos River area of abandoned irrigation wells. In the 50s in the Dell City area, agriculture boomed with irrigation ... but an accumulation of salts in the soil from the irrigation water killed the boom about as quickly as it happened. Hundreds of irrigation well became idle. An A&M professor who studied the situation in that area said one could remove the cap from one of those wells and hear a roar of water from upper zones cascading into the lower zone ... caused by corroded casing.

Another problem, totally unknown in its impact because there would be no way to study the situation, would be seismic holes. Never hear of them? In the 1930 some fellows in Oklahoma discovered a way to map subsurface structures by use of seismic technology. This was a great leap forward in the search for oil as it could give clues as to where to drill for oil. The method was to have a small drilling rig drill a hole, I suppose 30-50 feet deep, and place a dynamite charge in the bottom of it. Then they would place an array of seismic sensors for a quarter mile or so either side of the hole. Then the charge would be set off and the sensors would pick up reflected sound waves and a machine would plot this info on a chart. In the early 1950s seismic crews were everywhere. Crews from several seismic companies would follow each other across farm and ranchland and we would hear the booms from a couple of miles away. That went on for at least 10-15 years in our area. Those boreholes were not plugged, just covered over at the surface. I have no idea, and I doubt any one else has, what effect this had on underground water supplies.

Due to ignorance, we were not very good stewards of the land. Even with the help of the new Ground Water Districts and other state efforts to manage ground water, I doubt there is much that can be done to correct the wrongs of earlier times. So my only suggestion is when you pass the town of Big Lake, let your mind wander to an earlier time when a large pond of water was there sparkling in the afternoon sun ... and if your trekking takes you along a dry creek bed, imagine back when there were small pools of clear water with trickles winding through. Those were nice times.


As for the question about Nolens in Fisher County ... the name rings a bell but I cannot place it with a family. Some other Fisher County folks are on board who may know more.

WestTxAg06 I suspect drillers are more knowledgeable and better equipped to deal with limestone caverns than they were in 1950. I did not witness it but I heard that the Halliburton crew even stuffed hay bales into the borehole as part of their attempt to regain circulation. I have no idea of the size of the cavern ... could have been 6 feet or 20 feet for all I know. I just bet it gave the drilling crew a thrill when the drill stem dropped whatever size it was.

I suppose it is time for another history lesson on West Texas agriculture. This is interesting because at one time West Texas farmers were all confused in their terminology for plants their families had been raising and harvesting for years ... and I bet that many still hang on to those old terms.

See this picture? It is a field of Grain Sorghum, more specifically now called Milo, but early-on was called Combine Milo, ... and before that was called Combine MAIZE. (and I am sure your grandfathers still call it Maize!)



The crop in the picture above is about 20 inches tall. The reason the term Combine was added to the words Sorghum, Milo or Maize or whatever, was because up until 1948 or so we only had varieties of Sorghums that were head high. The short variety was introduced in about 1948 that would allow the grain to be harvested by a mechanical harvester called a Combine. Small grains such as wheat had been harvested for years with Combines ... and it was at that time that Grain Sorghum became a major product in West Texas agriculture.

This picture shows the type of Sorghum we grew on the farms before 1948. You can see why the term Combine was important in differentiating which type you planned to plant.



Now hold what you have right there. Back in earlier times in West Texas, the tall plants in the second picture were called Maize ... and your grandfather would still call it Maize if he were to see another field of it ... which is unlikely. Let's settle that Maize issue first.

The term Maize for the plants pictured above is and was totally incorrect ... Maize is the the name for Corn which is and has been grown in the midwest for years, and more recently in Texas. Maize or Corn is a crop native to Central and South America and seeds from the plants were introduced to Europe by Columbus and Pizarro following their earliest voyages.

Grain Sorghums were native to Asia and Africa. Varieties were developed in the early days of the US and found a perfect spot for growing in the dry, hot regions from Texas to South Dakota. How the term Maize crossed over to describe Sorghum is a mystery to me. And it was an mistake that I had to correct in my thinking in Ag courses at A&M in the early 50s.

Now back to Sorghums. Sorghums come in two major groups ... sweet and non-sweet. Both were produced on West Texas farms to feed livestock, horses/mules and cattle. The most common varieties were Hegari (called Highgear) and Red Top. Wait, wait, we called Red Top CANE. Red Top was not a Cane (different family), it was a Sweet Sorghum. So if your grandfather tells you he fed his mules Maize and Cane you now know what he meant.

(Edit: Is there a difference between the modern Combine variety of grain and the older varieties? Yes. The older varieties of grain were softer than the new combine strains. The mechanics of combine harvesting requires a more durable seed. Combine Milo must be "cracked" or rolled for easier digestion. The older softer grains were easy for animals to digest whole.)

Now back to the second picture above, the next question should be "How do you harvest that tall stuff?" There were various ways. In the dairy regions mostly they would cut the plant off low to the ground pass it into a chopper that cut it into small pieces and then would blow it into the big silos to become Silage. (Cattle love that stuff particularly after it ferments.) In recent years farmers have been cutting it and baling it like hay ... called Haygrazer.

In West Texas in earlier times it was usually harvested by use of a Row Binder. The Row Binder would cut the plants off near the ground and pass them up to a bundling mechanism that would tie the stalks into about a 10 inch bundle with Binder Twine and dump it out. The bundles would then be collected by hand and about 36 would be stood up into a teepee shaped Shock for curing. After a couple of weeks the bundles would be transferred to a wagon and hauled to a spot near the barns and lots and stacked. The feed stacks would be about 12 feet wide, 40 feet long and 12 feet high. A good crop year we would harvest enough for four stacks and that would last our livestock for a year. We would cut the heads off of some bundles to feed to hogs and the remainder would be fed to other stock. Tough West Texas livestock did not need fancy threshing to get to the grain. And they loved that sweet Red Top "Cane."

This is a fair picture of a Row Binder used to bundle Sorghum on the farm in those earlier times. You see them in about this same condition along the highways ... Now you know what they were used for.



There was another way of harvesting that tall Sorghum when just the heads were wanted for grain. There was another variety of Sorghum that was common at the time for folks who raised chickens or hogs, with no other livestock. That was called "Gooseneck Maize." Gooseneck grew just like the second picture but someone had developed a nice trait in it that when the heads began maturing about a foot of stalk connected to the head would bend down to within reach of a 10-12 year old kid. That was usually a kid job, one mule pulling a box slide (just a wooden box about 2'W, 4'H, 6'L on 4X4 skids), and a single blade hook bill knife (now called a Linoleum knife.) The process was to grab the stalk, whack off the head and drop it into the box ... the kid and mule would have to agree on the pace.

That Red Top "Cane" brings back pleasant memories. Nothing was better than to select a stalk just before the head matured, break off several joints, peel off the outer layer of stalk and chew the soft insides. Pure Cane Sugar.

I think it is interesting that sometime we have to interpret between the generations of farm folks. I think it is interesting also that a pattern is easily recognized that farm life and agricultural practices in West Texas made such an abrupt change beginning at the end of WWII. I am glad to have been in the middle of those years of change ... and happy that I can be here to relate sort of a before and after view of the two eras.


Edit: Not the best pictures but the best Google could do.

[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 8/5/2006 5:34p).]

[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 8/5/2006 6:15p).]

we used the same terms as I grew up in the 70's and 80's.....

one interesting thing...my grand dad brought us some "sorghum" in a container and it was used something like you would use honey....pour it over cornbread or whatever and eat it....it took a little getting used to, but it was pretty good

I have no idea where it came from or how it was made, but I would eat it again

Sweet sorghum in earlier times in some parts of the country was stripped of its leaves and the stalks pressed to extract the juices then boiled down to make sorghum molasses. The process was similar to the way sugar cane is processed in areas where sugar cane grows.

Sorghum molasses was an old timey sweetener before sugar and cane syrups were available. I am sure you can find it on the shelves in HEB even today.

We grew Red Top "cane" because it grew as well as Hegari and the livestock seemed to find it more palatable than Hegari. We never considered making molasses ... but my grandfather in earlier Texas may have.

My Grandad grew milo on his ranch in the panhandle for his cattle to eat. He had a huge barn with a hay loft that he kept it in. When all of us grandheathens were there visiting we would spend hours in that loft building forts with those bundles of milo. We managed to tear alot of them up which Grandad wasn't happy about. Between that and all the other mischeif we got into I think he was glad we only came to visit twice a year.
He also loved it when we chased the calves and rode the windmill pipe thingy. Thinking back we were pretty bad.

LoudestWhoop
I remember a couple of Nolens here in Rotan, last one around that I recall was Doug. He's been gone from here for several years.

Fossil
good reads again. I can remember making those teepees you referred to with hay shocks up into the early 70's, not many but were still some around then. Not something I would want to do a lot of now! I had forgotten the story of the caverns. Do you ever get back to Fisher County?

In those early times, town kids loved to visit farms, particularly at harvest time. Some even enjoyed joining in the work, and there was plenty of that, but mostly for play.

When the sorghum fields were cut and the shocks of bundled stalks dotted the land, to a kid of 7-13 or so it was like a large Indian village with a hundred teepees to claim or to hide in. By rearranging a couple of bundles one could gain entry to a fair sized open area inside a shock ... quiet, cool, and completely hidden during a game of hide and seek, or cowboys and Indians. (The only drawback was that skunks were sometime attracted to those shocks so a kid could be somewhat disappointed if he chose one already inhabited.)

And the big stacks of bundled feed was a major attraction for youngsters. Climbing onto the stacks was I suppose on the order of rock climbing, and once a person gained the top that invited a game of King of the Mountain. The favorite defense tactic of the "King" was to kick or stomp the hands of invaders trying to climb up ... and the tactic of the invader was to grab the King's ankles and drag him off. It was a sizable fall for either of the combatants, but I never saw an injury that interfered with the game. Of course, after a couple of hours of this the once neat feed stack was a mess and the next day us kids had to rebuild it.

We fed the bundles the same way hay bales are fed. We just cut the twine and tossed the bundle on he ground. Livestock would generally work around the leaves to eat those dry stalks and seemed to thrive on it.

When tractors replaced Mules for farm power, the demand for bundled sorghum dropped considerably. Combine Maize became the new cash crop that replaced Sorghums for bundle feed. Unfortunately, Combine Maize does not offer a replacement for the fun we had in those earlier times.


FisherCoAg. I generally get back to Fisher County every three or four months for a couple of days. I have a few family members I drop in to visit but mostly the time is spent on chores at my mother's house. She is 94 and still lives alone and gets around quite well. Folks in Roby recognize that little blue Buick and give her a wide berth when they see it on the street.

If you ever have time drop by the vet clinic in Rotan, I'd love to meet you.

or how about we plan on lunch one day - our very own West Texags gathering ?

Sweetwater - Abilene ?
is there anyplace in Roby ?
what about that hamburger joint in Rotan - John's I think it was - there on main street - the old man and woman that argue all the time - is it still there ? Thats worth a trip from Abilene.

or Doug Browning's Hatahoe Chick and Fish in Anson

FishrCoAg and TheSheik. Unless something comes up I plan to be in Roby next week, Aug 14-16. Noon on the 15th is an agreeable time for a lunch get together, either at the Anson Hatahoe or someplace in Sweetwater (majority rules.)

FishrCoAg, I will be coming to Rotan Monday or Tuesday for hardware or groceries and I will call you first to make sure you are not out on a housecall ... or would that be horsecall?

I was born and reared in Big Lake. Not many people can make that claim! From what the old timers have told me, the lake was full into the 1950s. A combination of the drought and oil wells being drilled into the springs made the lake go dry. When I was at A&M I took a geology course, and when the prof found out I was from Big Lake he asked if the story was true about why the Santa Rita well was drilled at its location. I went home spring break and asked the owner of our local liquor store (who had worked on Santa Rita #1 in his younger days) why the well had been drilled at that location. What my prof had heard for years was true. I made an "A" in that course. One of the many advantages to growing up in Big Lake!

[This message has been edited by SW AG80 (edited 8/7/2006 9:33p).]

SW AG80. I think your sources nailed it.

Santa Rita #1, the discovery well of the Permian Basin, blew in in 1923 ... about 12 miles west of Big Lake and the lake. I am sure many other wells were drilled even closer to the lake. Probably several penetrated the water bearing sands that fed the springs for the lake ... and doubtless too, much of the water from those sands poured down into boreholes.

Even then, if the lake stayed up until the beginning of the drought in 1950, the springs evidently maintained the lake for 27 years. Apparently the lake had some support from its watershed, fed partly by a draw the feeds from the west of the lake. It is an interesting situation. The fact the lake went dry in the early 50s is no surprise ... the drought lasted 7 years in Reagan County ... and that county only started with a 19.2 inches average annual rainfall.

The situation at Big Lake brings to mind another question. Oil was discovered near Borger in the Texas Panhandle in 1926. I wonder what part that drilling activity in those days in the north part of the Panhandle has played in the declining water tables of the Ogallala Aquifer. Did the Agallala also spring a leak?

now that's one heck of an interesting concept and something I never considered....having family who uses the ogallala aquifer, I knew that it had been declining, but I never considered that it could be draining due to oil drilling......

edit to add....I think Littlefield and Levelland may be over part of the O. aquifer as well

[This message has been edited by powerbiscuit (edited 8/7/2006 10:56p).]

[This message has been edited by powerbiscuit (edited 8/8/2006 8:43a).]

Sheik
Johns cafe is still there, the Mercer's son Alva is operating it now.

fossil & crew
I have to take my wife to the dr. in Abilene on the 15th, will be leaving here about noon or just before, will be available most other times.

Vick, if a couple of you get together for lunch let me know. I will try to meet yall.

WestTxAg06 brought up an interesting subject in a post on 8/4/06 in regard to the need for brush control, and in particular Mesquite brush, to conserve ground water.

Out of control Mesquite brush is a problem all over West Texas. Some farm and ranch managers have a handle on it in some places but not far away from their locations you will see other pastures completely choked with Mesquite brush (and Pr*ckly Pear) too dense for grass to penetrate.

A typical West Texas Honey Mesquite


I will pass along a history of the Mesquite in West Texas as relayed to me more than 60 years ago, and from my observations of control practices in the late 40s through the 50s that created most of the problems folks are having to solve today.

My grandfather told me that when he first came to Jones County in 1890 and to Fisher County in 1900 there was no Mesquite brush. Some trees were scattered about but for the most part the area was a sea of grass. When I came on the scene in the early 30s, large mature Mesquite trees were commonplace and there was a good bit of scattered Mesquite brush. For the next 20-25 years I observed the disappearance of the mature trees and the proliferation of brush. What was taking place in Fisher County in those 50-60 years?

In the beginning years Mesquite trees were a main source of firewood for heating and cooking on the plains. My grandfather would harness a team of mules, hook on to a wagon and harvest Mesquite wood to last a few months. To pen his livestock he would save the longer, straighter branches 4-6 inches in diameter for fenceposts. Mature Mesquite trees commonly had 4 or 5 main branches coming up from the base of that size. In the 30s and 40s we had less need for firewood but we still cut Mesquite posts. We also knew that if we cut all the main branches from the base that the base would resprout with 6-10 smaller branches ... but we had plenty of pasture and did not consider it a problem. This was common practice. And some pastures were cut out worse than others.

Recall that Bulldozers did not make an appearance until after WWII. The question should be, "How did those old timers clear all that farmland?" The answer is that clearing was done by Grubbing Hoe and a team of mules. The early day folks knew about Mesquite trees and how to clear them out.

A Mesquite Tree has coming out of its basal node a Tap Root that goes down as far as 50 feet to find a water table if necessary. In addition, from the basal node 6-12 inches below the soil surface it sends out lateral (crown) roots that I know go out 30-40 feet in an older tree. (Burn a big Mesquite stump and 3-4 days later see wisps of smoke rising from the ground as the roots burn out.) Now, to kill a Mesquite tree you have to kill that basal node all the way to the lateral roots or it will come back as a bush. That simple. When clearing farmland farmers would dig down to the lateral roots with a grubbing hoe, cut the lateral roots with a heavy bar with a sharp cutting end, then snap off the tap root with the team of mules. That was a lot of work and that is the reason most farmsteads today cultivate only the land that was cleared by hand by someone's great-grandparents 70-100 years ago.

How did Mesquite come to West Texas and why is it so hardy. First, Mesquite is a good food source for animals. When ripe the beans fall to the ground and animals large and small, wild and domestic, find the beans palatable. Now the seeds within the beans reportedly have up to 30% protein; unfortunately, the seed coat is so tough it generally passes through horses and cattle undigested ... but those animals can survive on the beans if nothing else is available. (The problem is if they consume too many the gut can become impacted and cause death.) The seeds are so tough they will not germinate without scarification ... but one pass through a horse or cow solves that problem, so Mesquite came to West Texas inside animals ... from some drifting up from South Texas and probably many that crossed the Chisholm Trail up around Ft Worth as they were moved from northeast Texas in those 1880-1900 migrations.

So by the 1940 we were beginning to have a problem with Mesquite brush, some places and areas more than others. And by 1946 with WWII behind us, a progressive attitude in the air, and a Soil Conservation Service rejuvinated with appropriations from Congress, attention was turned to brush control to return a lot of land back into grassland pasture or cultivation.

The first attempts at clearing Mesquite were crude. With new big Bulldozers in the arsenal, folks figured you could just push all that brush into a big pile and burn it. The next idea in order to speed up the process was to get war-surplus anchor chain, about 200 feet of it between a couple of dozers and let that dragging chain knock the brush and trees down. Things looked fine for a couple of years then all realized that the brush was coming back in multiples of its former self. Where you see a pasture now with Mesquite so thick you can't walk through it, that is a pasture than was abandoned after one pass with a dozer or the anchor chain. That is also the genesis of those place you see frequently where Pr*ckly Pear has overtaken a place. Dozers and anchor chains broke up Pr*ckly Pear into a hundred pieces and scattered it all over the ground being worked ... and every piece sprouted a new Pr*ckly Pear plant. Dozer pushing and chaining knocked trees and brush down but did not damage the basal node to speak of.

By the early 50s folks realized the earlier methods did not work and so they tried Root Plows. Now this was generally effective in reducing Mesquite regrowth, provided it was followed by raking into big piles. As long as that root crown was attached to at least one root that bush was coming back. But as you can see, the expense to clear the brush was getting into the high-dollar level ... up to the point where clearing land was costing as much per acre as cleared land.

So, still in the 50s the next try was with aerial spraying of pasture land. As with other chemicals, from pharmaceuticals to Ag Chemicals, nothing suitable for brush control was commercially available until 1946. The first for brush was 2,4,D, a compound developed in Britain in 1942 for broadleaf weed control in field crops. 2,4,D was mixed with diesel and water in West Texas and found to be very effective in killing Mesquite if painted or sprayed on the base of tree or bush ...(About 80% kill.) Aerial spraying got about 70-80% Above Ground Mortality but only 40-50% Whole Plant Mortality. Something stronger was needed obviously.

So that something else was a cousin of 2,4,D called 2,4,5-T. 2,4,5-T had been developed in 1944 by the same Brits who developed 2,4,D in 1942.

It may be interesting to know that 2,4,D was called by its developers as Agent White. And 2,4,5-T was called by the same developers as AGENT ORANGE. Among the differences in 2,4,D and 2,4,5-T was that the latter contained something called Dioxin.

Little has been made of the fact that Agent Orange was used in West Texas for Mesquite control for 15 years before it was introduced in Vietnam. And the fellows who did the aerial spraying of Agent Orange beginning in the mid-60s were known as "Ranch Hands." I was always a bit curious if Operation Ranch Hand evolved from the West Texas cropdusters who applied Agent Orange in area pastures.

2,4,5-T was outlawed in the early 80s so we are back to 2,4 D sold under a bunch of brand names, along with Round-up and other newer chemicals. Those chemicals may be powerful but the Mesquite is a tough old tree to deal with.

So, WestTxAg06, that is a bit of history of Mesquite brush control in West Texas. You now know that your great-grandfathers unknowingly got us into the current mess, and the grandfathers just made it worse. So, if you can think of a cost-effective way to get farmers out of this pickle, more power to you. But from my perspective, with all of the cropland and grassland pasture currently in CRP, I doubt anyone is willing to put out the cash that would be required to reduce Mesquite population, even to preserve ground water.

Two facts every West Texan should know about Mesquite trees:
1. A Mesquite tree will not leaf out in the Spring until after the last frost. Do not start a garden until after the Mesquites leaf out.
2. The reason Mesquites are so hardy is that they are able to fix their own nitrogen from the air so they have an advantage over other growing plants.





[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 8/9/2006 11:55p).]

Interesting stuff as always, fossil. I was not aware of the control efforts with Agent Orange; it never fails, the most effective chemicals always get outlawed.

You're right about the mechanical efforts sometimes causing more problems than they solve, especially when there is prickly pear in the pasture and it gets spread "from here to yonder", to use a West Texas figure of speech.

The new(er) herbicide Remedy is reported to be quite effective on mesquites. I've heard that if you mix it with diesel in something like an 80-20 mix and then apply it basally to mesquites, it'll kill them deader than a doornail. Of course, it's about as expensive per liquid oz. as Chanel No. 5 perfume.

[This message has been edited by WestTxAg06 (edited 8/11/2006 10:33a).]

fossil_ag

you're the one from out of town, you still planning on trying to meet up at the Hatahoe in Anson ??

post here or call me on my cell xxxxxx and I'll meet you over there for lunch, probably best at 12:30 or 1:00 unless we can work some other schedule that fits the others



[This message has been edited by TheSheik (edited 8/15/2006 10:16a).]

The Sheik and others interested. My plans for the West Texas trip had to be altered a bit. Plan A now is to be at the Hatahoe in Anson on Wednesday, the 16th, instead of today. I will be there around noon so your 12:30 is fine if you can make it.

Anyone else in the vicinity of the Anson Hatahoe tomorrow around noonish just drop in and we will sample Doug Browning's cooking.

I was suggesting 12:30 to beat the noon school kid rush.

I'll be there

Wish I could make it, maybe next time!

Fossil

Good lunch. Hope you made it home okay. I forgot to give the CD of local history that I have. If you send me an email with your mailing address, I'll put a CD in the mail to you.

iamthesheik at gmail dot com

error

[This message has been edited by Joe Bfstplk (edited 8/18/2006 2:45p).]