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Strange West Texas Connections

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powerbiscuit
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too bad you never got to see him....

I'm sure it would have been similar to when I used to catch George Strait when he was early in his career.... playing around at the county fairs and such....a few hours of listening and dancing to his music sure helped me out with the young ladies....I owe him big for setting the mood on numerous occasions
TERRY L
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powerbiscuit

My Dad DeltaAg51, when he was in high school, went to many dances where Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys were playing around West Texas. We grew up traveling to Sweetwater/Shamrock scanning that crackly AM radio searching for Bob Wills. I guess thats where I got my affinity for Texas swing music.
powerbiscuit
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it had to be a great time to be a country music fan....he and hank williams, sr. are still two of my favorites even though I was born 30-40 years too late

after listening to these guys and a few others, I have a hard time listening to much of today's country music....luckily with technology, I have quite a bit of their music on my computer which keeps me company
fossil_ag
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AG
West Texas (including the Panhandle) has turned out a pack of great performers. If you would like to browse through the list, check out the West Texas Music Hall of Fame (Google) or the link: westexmusichof.com

On the website, click on any name in Blue and it will link to a biography.

You old timers will recognize the names of Slim Willet, Hoyle Nix, Stuart Hamblin, Lefty Frizzell, Ernest Tubb and Floyd Tillman. (Poor Floyd, from Post, was in love with a singer named "Little Marge" (Margaret Whiting) in Houston. Everytime Little Marge would leave him he would get drunk and write another hit song ... typically "I Love You So Much It Hurts Me" and "Slippin' Round."

And you younger folks will recognize Ronnie Dunn, Don Williams, Larry Gatlin, et al.

And we will include Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys. Bob's home is Turkey ... 100 miles north of Fisher County on Hwy 70.)

Also, check out the songwriters. You will be amazed at some of the songs penned in West Texas. (Not listed with his songs is "Toolpusher From Snyder" by Slim Willet of Abilene ... pretty bad but we got a kick out of it in the early 50s during the Snyder oil boom. Slim's greatest hit was "Don't Let The Stars Get In Your Eyes" which was #1 on the Pop charts for a year or so in different versions sung by about 6 different super stars.)



[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 6/3/2006 12:30a).]
3rd Generation Ag
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AG
My brother and I were talking about dance halls in West Texas just last night--but our era was a little later--the 60's. Hoyle Nix at the Stampede in Big Spring was the ultimate evening out.

Other options were going to the drive in in Lamesa or "dragging the square" meaning the girls in cars going one way around the court house square, and the guys going the other. If you saw a "match" you took of for the "wall" a block or so away to visit. Sort of the primative equivalent to match.com.

Social highlight of summer would be the town rodeo--and each of our surrounding ones--Post, Snyder, Big Spring, and Lamesa, had a big one--with the rodeo dances after the performance each evening.

Strangely to today's youth we "danced." Biggest surprise I had was at a parents weekend when my son took me to a concert at a dance hall--notice now they use the term "concert" and most people just stood on the dance floor with lighters in hand an watched the bands play.

What ever happened to honkeytonks and spining the night away doing the Texas Two Step.

Billy Walker, just killed in a car wreck, was born in Rall, Texas.

[This message has been edited by 3rd Generation Ag (edited 6/3/2006 9:18a).]
fossil_ag
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AG
3GA ... You may even remember the days when the "Schottisch" and "Put Your Little Foot" were a called for at least once a night when we had a live band ..... and that original "Westphalia Waltz" that later became the tune for several other popular C/W songs.

And for the highlight of the evening when the announcer called "Ladies' Choice!" That was the only time you could dance with someone else's date without causing a fight.

Edit: Don Wolser was a Lamesa boy who started out during your time there.

[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 6/3/2006 9:36a).]
TheSheik
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AG
Hoyle Nix has been mentioned a couple of times, but don't forget his son Jody is still out there making music. Well worth it if you get a chance to see them play.

Jody's website is being updated.
http://jodynix.com/

several years ago, I went there and he had his CD's on there to order. I went through the selection process, picked out a couple and clicked order. It didn't take me to a payout screen, so I didn't think it went through. A few days later, I got a box with the CD's in it and a handwritten note from Jody to send him a check for $xx when I got around to it.

[This message has been edited by TheSheik (edited 6/3/2006 10:00a).]
powerbiscuit
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don't give up on the youngsters yet....when I was a kid in the mid eighties, all the country dances played the schottish, a polka, and the cotton-eyed-joe at least once every night, and their was plenty of dancing....

3GA, you must have went to a show with a pretty popular band....I'd bet the farm that there is still a lot of dancing going on at most of the rodeo type dances, although I have been away for quite a few years and can't say it for a fact
fossil_ag
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AG
Hank Thompson is listed in the West Texas Music Hall of Fame. That is a stretch because Thompson was born, raised and headquartered at Waco. But I am sure he and his Brazos Valley Boys made several circuits through the honky-tonks of West Texas between 1946 and 2006.

Thompson's first hits were in the 40s and he is the only C/W artist to have charted hits in the six consecutive decades. DeltaAg51 will remember "Whoa Sailor", "Humpty-Dumpty Heart", "Squaws Along the Yukon" and "Oklahoma Hills" from the 50s. Thompson was also billed as the King of Western Swing and although he never gained the statewide fame as Bob Wills, he and his band were IMO right up there with him.

During the early 50s, and probably before and after, Thompson and his BVBs were almost weekly features at the SPJST Halls, Shilo Hall in CS (where the Ft Shilo Steakhouse used to be,) and various other dancehalls in this five county area.

The local area promoter of these appearances was the country DJ for radio station WTAW which was then owned by TAMC and located on campus. That DJ was A.J. Winn .... and A.J.'s son is Buddy Winn, Brazos County Tax Assessor/Collector.
fossil_ag
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AG
Trivia:

If you have ever been to a C/W dance you have danced to the song Cotton-Eyed Joe. Where does the term cotton-eye come from?

When a horse becomes blind in one eye the eyeball usually turns white. The term is "cotton eye." A horse thus afflicted is usually skittish and nervous because the set of the eyes is such that it cannot see anything happening on the blind side ... so that can be a pain in the neck. "Cotton-eyed Joe, you mean outlaw, worse durn horse I ever saw...."
powerbiscuit
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I don't think I've seen mention one of my favorite west texas/panhandle musicians who is the recently passed....Waylon Jennings... from Littlefield, Texas

I never had the good fortune to see him play, but I'm sure it would have been one hell of a time
fossil_ag
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AG
I asked my daughter a couple of nights ago about what lyrics she had heard with the Cotton Eyed Joe. She thought a couple of minutes and said she had never heard words to it, that she thought it was just instrumental.

Well, it has words ... lots of them in many different versions because it has been around more than 150 years. Two versions I ran across Cotton-Eyed Joe was not a horse but a man in a southern plantation setting.

The version below is close to the West Texas words I heard sung in the 40s and 50s by a band my uncle had in Odessa at the time.

Far away and long ago,
On the trail to the Alamo
Met a gal I used to know,
Ridin' on a Cotton-Eyed Joe.

Chorus:
[: Cotton-Eyed Joe,
Cotton-Eyed Joe,
Gimme that gal,
Cotton-Eyed Joe.:]

I said "Miss, do you like to woo?"
She said "Sir, with the likes of you."
I said "Gal, you're a honey bee,
How'd you like to marry me."

Chorus:

Dance I saw in a Texas town,
Boys all swing the gals around
I'll teach you to heel and toe,
Just come off that Cotton-Eyed Joe.

Chorus:

Cotton-eyed Joe, you mean outlaw,
Worst durn Hoss I ever saw
Hold my fiddle and hold my bow,
I'm gonna dance that Cotton-Eyed Joe.

Chorus:

Don't you feel your life is more complete now that you know words to Cotton-Eyed Joe?







TheSheik
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AG
First off, let me say I hate the Cotton-Eyed Joe
The Shottish - now thats a dance.


those lyrics above didn't ring a bell with what I remember hearing. . . so I went looking

The internets is a wonderful thing:
http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/dances/cottoney.html

quote:
Cotton-Eyed Joe

Now I'd o' been married a long time ago,
If it had not o' been for Cotton-Eyed Joe.

Chorus:
Where did 'e come from, where did 'e go,
Where did 'e come from, Cotton-eyed Joe?

I gotta ball-peen hammer and a two-by-four.
Gonna whip the hell out o' Cotton-Eyed Joe.

Chorus


and it says at that link Joe would take a "cotton" to a girl and steal her away.


or how about here
http://themediadesk.com/newfiles2/joe.htm
quote:
Going back into the late Nineteenth Century in the Deep South, it would appear that Joe was either a slave or bondservant/ hired man. The term 'cotton eyed' would be rendered today as 'bug eyed'. Or rather, having large and prominent whites (conjunctiva) to one's eyes.

Somewhat More Traditional Lyrics:

Do you remember Long time ago
There was a man called Cotton eyed Joe
There was a man called Cotton eyed Joe

I could have been married long time ago
If it hadn't 'a been for Cotton Eyed Joe
If it hadn't 'a been for Cotton Eyed Joe

Old bull fiddle and a shoe-string bow
Wouldn't play nothin' but Cotton Eyed Joe
Wouldn't play nothin' but Cotton Eyed Joe

Play it fast or play it slow
Didn't play nothing but Cotton Eyed Joe
Didn't play nothing but Cotton Eyed Joe

Where do you come from where do you go
Where do you come from Cotton Eyed Joe
Where do you come from Cotton Eyed Joe

Blue Grass Lyrics:

Verses
I'll make me a fiddle and make me a bow,
And I'll learn to play like Cotton-eyed Joe.
I tuned up my fiddle, I went to a dance,
I tried to make some music, but I couldn't get a chance.

You hold my fiddle and you hold my bow,
Till I whip the Devil out of Cotton-eyed Joe.
I've make lot of fiddles and made lot of bows,
But I never learned to fiddle like Cotton-eyed Joe.

And yet another version:

Way back yonder a long time ago
Daddy had a man called Cotton-Eyed Joe
Blew into town on a travelin' show
Nobody danced like the Cotton-Eyed Joe

Chorus
Cotton-Eyed Joe, Cotton-Eyed Joe
Where did you come from, where did you go?
Where did you come from, where did you go?
Where did you come from, Cotton-Eyed Joe?

Mama's at the window, Mama's at the door
She can't see nothin' but the Cotton-Eyed Joe
Daddy held the fiddle, I held the bow
We beat the hell out of Cotton-Eyed Joe

chorus

Made himself a fiddle, made himself a bow
Made a little tune called the Cotton-Eyed Joe
Hadn't oughta been for the Cotton-Eyed Joe
I'd a-been married some forty years ago

chorus

Whenever there's dance all the women want to go
And they all want to dance with the Cotton-Eyed Joe
Daddy won't say but I think he knows
Whatever happened to the Cotton-Eyed Joe

chorus


TheSheik
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AG
but thats still not all


http://www.luckymojo.com/bluescottoneyedjoeunknown.html
This acadmic collection from 1926 says its an old slave song.
I don't think I've ever actually heard this version. . .

quote:
COTTON-EYED JOE

Don't you remember, don't you know,
Don't you remember Cotton-eyed Joe?
Cotton-eyed Joe, Cotton-eyed Joe,
What did make you treat me so?
I'd 'a' been married forty year ago
Ef it had n't a-been for Cotton-eyed Joe!

Cotton-eyed Joe, Cotton-eyed Joe,
He was de nig dat sarved me so,-
Tuck my gal away fum me,
Carried her off to Tennessee.
I'd 'a' been married forty year ago
Ef it had n't a-been for Cotton-eyed Joe!

His teeth was out an' his nose was flat,
His eyes was crossed, - but she did n't mind dat.
Kase he was tall, and berry slim,
An' so my gal she follered him.
I'd 'a' been married forty year ago
Ef it had n't a-been for Cotton-eyed Joe!

She was de prettiest gal to be found
Anywhar in de country round;
Her lips was red an' her eyes was bright,
Her skin was black but her teeth was white.
I'd 'a' been married forty year ago
Ef it had n't a-been for Cotton-eyed Joe!

Dat gal, she sho' had all my love,
An' swore fum me she'd never move,
But Joe hoodooed her, don't you see,
An' she run off wid him to Tennessee.
I'd 'a' been married forty year ago
Ef it had n't a-been for Cotton-eyed Joe!



Here's Scarborough's preface to the song,

A less comely person of a different sex is celebrated or anathematized in another song, which seems to be fairly well known in the South, as parts of it have been sent in by various persons. According to the testimony of several people who remember events before the Civil war, this is an authentic slavery-time song. The air and some of the words were given to me by my sister, Mrs. George Scarborough, as learned from the Negroes on a plantation in Texas, and other parts by an old man in Louisiana, who sang it to the same tune. He said he had known it from his earliest childhood and had heard the slaves sing it on plantations. A version was also sent by a writer whose pen name is Virginia Stait.



another academic research topic
http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/master/cottoneyedjoe10.html
quote:
Marion Thede believes 'cotten-eyed' may refer to a person with very light blue eyes, while Alan Lomax suggests it was used to describe a man whose eyes were milky white from Trachoma. In Georgia, people with large whites to the eyes are called cotton-eyed. This usage is fairly common, as pointed out in the quote from a dictionary of slang. Charles Wolfe writes that African-American collector Thomas Talley, in his manuscript of stories, Negro Traditions, related a story entitled "Cotton-Eyed Joe, or the Origin of the Weeping Willow." The story includes a stanza from the song, "but more importantly details a bizarre tale of a well-known pre-Civil War plantation musician, Cotton Eyed Joe, who plays a fiddle made from the coffin of his dead son."

"Boswell's Folk Songs of Middle Tennessee, which references Talley, The Negro Traditions has this to say: "According to black folk traditions of late-nineteenth-century Bedford County, Cotton-Eyed Joe was a well-known pre-Civil War slave musician whose tragic life caused his hair to turn white; eventually he played a fiddle made from the coffin of his dead son." Boswell collected seven versions."


there's jillions of other lyric versions out there
recorded by of course hundreds of country singers,
but I think the version we all remember was
Isaac Payton Sweat
but there is also
The Greatful Dead,
Burl Ives,

and then there's this. . . . .
a techno pop version by a swedish country band Rednex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPZjb-SZ7eA

which inspired a whole new breed of . . well just watch for yourself
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1109936299384515409

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w93tG_Md8vE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtXQxN1AsJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIRoSgR-gX0



So Cotton-eyed joe is either a blind horse,
or an attactive slave with great dance moves
or he's buck tooth and cross-eyed, but tall and slim
or the world's greatest bug-eyed, white haired fiddler
but no matter what,
he steals your women
and causes goofy drunk people to think they can dance.
fossil_ag
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AG
Where did he come from?
I don't know,
But we beat the hell
Out of Cotton-Eyed Joe!
TERRY L
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I remember Mom and Dad dancing the shottish and polka when we were little. My brother and I thought that was so funny. I learned the Cotton Eyed Joe when visiting A&M the first time in college. That was fun, the only words I remembered were "bull sh*t" shouted at strategic moments. (Being from Mississippi, this was new fun for me!)
3rd Generation Ag
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AG
Plus the Cowboy Polka is a heel and toe version, not like the way they dance it here in East Bell County.

Yes, and they also still to the Paul Jones at dances in my day. Two circles and when the music stopped, you danced with the person in front of you. That would be a couple of times a night.

Honkey tonk bands were all about the dancing, not the concert type of things out now. I don't see many people dancing to Pat Greene.

My mom played piano in a few bands during the depression when people did whatever to make a living.

I grew up hearing those old country dance hall songs coming from her piano and almost done remember a time when I could not dance.
fossil_ag
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AG
The predominant connection in this West Texas thread is Texas A&M. And any discussion of Texas A&M usually evolves into a debate about the Corps of Cadets ... New Army vs Old Army.

Too often what is lacking in those debates is a historical perspective to understand what the fuss is all about. Perhaps long overdue is a close look at the Corps in its early days, and its development through the years, to understand today's philosophical conflict between the Corps and the University administration. Let's take a walk through history.

The First Morrill Act (Act of 1862 Donating Lands for Colleges of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts) passed by Congress set the stage of a future Texas A&M. Included in terms of the Act were that "... at least one college where the leading object shall be, without excluding other scientific and classical studies, and including military tactics, to teach such branches of learning as are related to agriculture and mechanics arts ..." On October 4, 1876 Texas A&M opened its doors in a dedication by Governor Richard Coke. One hundred six students were in that first class.

Consider the time. The Civil War had ended 12 years earlier. Texas had been administered by a Reconstruction Government until three years earlier when Coke was elected governor. The first students at Texas A&M were the first generation past the War and Reconstruction years, and probably most were immediate descendents of Civil War veterans.

In addition, when Texas A&M opened its doors, the Indian Wars that had raged for years in Central Texas and on the West Texas plains with Commanche, Kiowa and Apache tribes had only one year before effectively ended with the defeat of Lone Wolf of the Kiowas and Quanah Parker of the Comanches in mid-1875. Until that time, the western frontier of Texas was a line that ran along what is today I-35. Because of the continuing threat of Indian attacks towns in Central Texas, such as Lockhart, LaGrange, and others had town militias ... many manned by teenagers during the Civil War year ... to ward off Indian raiding bands. Doubtless, many of the first A&M students had participated in militia actions or were closely concerned.

So with a background of military matters, and the requirement of the Morrill Act for studies in "military tactics" it was natural and necessary that the original Texas A&M student body was organized and bivouaced in a military fashion. Because of a shortage of funds in all administrative and academic activities in those early years, the college was content to allow the student body to regulate its own affairs of student life, appointments, discipline and non-academic activities. For the most part students apparently had no difficulties conforming to the regimented life and no doubt the faculty and administration were pleased to not have to add this concern to their duties.

Times were turbulent in those early years. Funding was scarce. In the first 14 years, the college had six presidents and there was concern that the college might not survive ... until 1890 when Governor Lawrence Sullivan Ross told the Legislature if they would continue the college one more year until his term expired he would volunteer to become President. Through this time the Corps had remained stable and secure under its own leadership. But the Corps was elated that Gen Sul Ross was coming in 1891. Sully was already legendary in Texas who as the "boy Captain" at 20 had led a military that had rescued Cynthia Ann Parker on the Plains, and had been a decorated Confederate General. The Corps had it most admired leader. Ross was President until his death in 1898. (The Corps inaugurated Silver Taps in its own comemorative ceremony for this great "Soldier, Statesman, Knightly Gentleman."

During these years Commandants were assigned but all had been Lieutenants. The status of the Corps was such that in 1899 when a Commandant was ill the Cadet Colonel of the Corps, E. J. Kyle (remember that name?) was named Commandant from March until May 1899.

I have no doubt, especially during the administration of Sul Ross, that Corps activities, policies and procedures were under review by the faculty and administration, but for lack of evidence to the contrary, it appears the Corps of Cadets had developed its internal guidelines and, by now traditions, in consonance with acceptable student leadership practice.

Corps of Cadet Officers 1908


But things within the Corps I am sure were not always proper, given the size of the student body (numbering 1,000 in 1911), and considering the ages and natural proclivities for hi-jinx of males of that age. In 1911 two trains carried the Corps to a football game at Houston between the Aggies and the Longhorns. After the 6-0 loss to Texas the Aggie students "rioted" in Houston and by some accounts took over the town. A&M took a beating from the newspapers about the state and the University of Texas suspended sports relations until 1915 because of the rowdy behavior. But life resumed as normal at A&M.

In 1913 The Corps and faculty had its first serious conflict. It seems the Governor had been receiving complaints of excessive hazing within the Corps and had requested a faculty investigation. The faculty made its investigation and came up with a list of 22 culprits and recommended expulsion. This, to best of knowledge, was the first time the faculty had challenged the "all for one, one for all", credo of the Corps. (Perhaps if the faculty had picked off the culprits one at a time instead of all as a group it might have quietly accomplished its purpose.) Expelling 22 en masse was too much for the Corps and it rebelled.

Two days later the students presented a proclamation to the college which said in effect, reinstate the 22 who were expelled (and take no action is the case of painting 1916 on the water tower), or "we will not attend any academic duties until our demands are met." The proclamation was signed by 466 members of the Freshman, Sophomore and Junior classes. The faculty backed into a corner retaliated by expelling all 466 on grounds of insubordination.

Before leaving, the Corps assembled on the drill field and 140 Seniors lined up as for Final Review and took the salutes of the departing underclassmen. All believed it would be the final Dress Parade at Aggieland. After the review, the underclassmen continued to the Armory, turned in their rifles, and departed campus. (Afterward more than half the students were reinstated but about 200 never were.) After this Donnybrook it would be several years before another challenge by the administration.

In 1917 when the United States declared war against the Axis Powers, the entire Senior class of 137 volunteered en masse ... one month before graduation. College administrators traveled to San Antonio where the former Cadets were training and held graduation ceremonies under an oak tree.

Through the 20s and 30s The Corps of Cadets continued its march into history, reveling in its traditions, as it bolstered its confidence that it was producing good men, true to each other and to their state and country. Bonfire, Reveille and Aggie Muster were introduced by the Corps into its image during these years.

The Depression years were especially brutal to members of the Corps because many members simply did not have the money to attend college. To make do and survive, students banded together with ingenuity. They divied up chores such as laundry, cooking, etc, to save money, and their parents donated produce, meats and other farm products. Aggie Moms clubs and other groups donated co-op houses for needing students to share rent free (located where the old tennis courts used to be.) It was a time of share and share alike to get as many Corps buddies through the hard times as possible. (A&Ms greatest moment.)

In 1941 the Corps of Cadets proved its worth by being ready for WWII. In the next five years 20,000 former students served in that conflict. The Corps honors those who served and those who perished, from the 46 at Bataan and Corrigidor, General George Moore, Earl Rudder at Normandy, to the names inscribed at the entry to MSC, all added to the legacy of duty and honor in Corps tradition.

The next conflict between the Corps and the administration occured after WWII. In 1947, Gibb Gilchrist, a tu alumnus, was President of A&M College. The college was inundated with veterans enrolling to attend college under the GI Bill. The main campus could not accommodate the mass of students so a decision was made to house and school freshman students at the recently acquired Bryan Air Field (now called TAMU annex.) Corps leaders complained heatedly because that meant Corps Fish would be separated from upperclassmen through that first important year of indoctrination ... and Sophomores in the Corps would have to endure another year of Fish duties on main campus. To Corps upperclassmen, this would severely disrupt the natural order of Corps life and that some compromise need be met. The Corps rebelled and on the night of January 18, 1947 marched on President Gilchrist's home on campus. The students presented their arguments for maintaining tradition and Corps discipline. Gilchrist stood firm. Corps leaders then resigned the rank they had been awarded during the Gilchrist administration. Both parties had made their points known ...but Fish were separated from the upperclassmen of the Corps until the Fall Semester 1952, and even then assigned for one year to Dorms on the north side of the campus while upperclassmen were assigned Dorms on the south side of the campus. In the Fall Semester 1953, Fish were reintegrated with upperclassmen in the south side Dorms. Corps life returned to pre-war conditions.

In 1949 a singular event occured that, though long lost in history, revealed the high regard of the members of the Corps for men of honor and heroism. Word had gotten to the Corps that Audie Murphy, the most decorated infantryman in WWII, who had grown up near Farmersville, had said in an interview that he had always wanted to attend Texas A&M when growing up and could not afford to. The Corps invited him to come to A&M for a special Review in his honor ... and at the Review conferred on Murphy an honorary title of Colonel of the Cadet Corps ... the only time in history this was ever awarded.

Now lets talk about discipline within the Corps. At some point this subject always turns into "hazing." And hazing always seems to turn to "the board." I am sure the board was used at some times in history ... and quite possible used in excess by sadistic individuals ... but I consider that unlikely and only in isolated cases if at all. I do know that there were rules in place for its use ... such as, the target was a clearly defined area of the buttock and a lick outside that area was defined as a S**t Lick which could be called by the recipient and if verified by evidence to another senior could allow the complainant recourse by administering the same number of licks to the offending person. In my four years I never had experience with the board in any manner and did not know of any person who claimed to have had such experience ... although there were rumors of it being an alternative to "other punishment."

And that other punishment 50-odd years ago was a progression of Gigs (or Rams) and Hours on the Bull Ring. Gigs were given for minor infractions for items noted during room inspection or uniform inspection ... and so many Gigs would equate to an hour on the Bull Ring. The Bull Ring was a Class A uniform (with helmet liner) mandatory Saturday afternoon formation. Miscreants marched single file at six foot intervals along a well trod path about the size of a football field for 50 minutes to work off one hour of Bull Ring punishment. For those of us with 2, 3, or 4 hours accumulated you would be coaxed to work those off those remaining hours after the 10 minutes breaks. It was the most miserable time I ever endured and I would have gladly traded those hours for pops by board had I ever had a chance to ... (which I heard that some units would allow.) But from my experience I firmly believe that the board was never in widespread use ... and you are free to call anyone on it who claims otherwise.

For misconduct of greater significance (such as lying, cheating, violations of traditions etc.) whose possible punishment was short of expulsion from school, these cases were heard and judged in Senior Court. It was standard court procedure of proscecutor, defendant, witnesses,etc., with Seniors as judges. Punishments could range from Bull Ring tours to various probations. This was an old time procedure.

For serious offenses that could result in expulsion or criminal charges, these were handled by the Commandant and Dean of Men's offices.

In 1954 another situation occured that reportedly involved use of the board in a hazing complaint. Four Seniors in one Corps unit were expelled as a result. This did not cause an uproar within the Corps because the rules regarding use of the board were well known, as was the possible punishment if found guilty. The Corps considered the matter closed.

However, it is worth noting that the weekend after the expulsion, a passerby noticed water trickling out the front doors of Ross Hall which housed the Commandant's offices. When the doors were opened water flooded out. In the aftermath, engineers judged that the weight of the water had so damaged old Ross Hall that it could not be repaired ... and it was demolished. That is when and why the Commandant's offices were moved into the Trigon. There was some speculation that the expulsions and Ross Hall flooding were somehow connected but this was never confirmed.

In 1959 General Earl Rudder '32 became President of Texas A&M. Under his leadership membership in the Corps of Cadets was made optional for the first time in history and females were allowed to enroll. The Old Army tradition of the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M ended with those changes.

The old Corps of Cadets had served its purpose well for the state and the nation. By 1960 it was an anachronism and the time had come for change into the modern world. I do not waste time mourning its passing because in view of the times and circumstances what occured was inevitable. But I honor those who came before me and produced the proud legacy and traditions we share today ... and I applaud those Cadets who continue on today trying as best they may to carry on as "Keepers of the Spirit" in a world that no longer remembers or seems to care.


[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 6/13/2006 6:47p).]
TERRY L
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Fossil Ag you're alive!

I always heard Dad say A&M was often refered to as "Gibb Gilcrist school for delinquent boys".

[This message has been edited by TERRY L (edited 6/13/2006 5:37p).]
FishrCoAg
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Glad you're back posting, fossil!
powerbiscuit
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fossil_ag
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Thanks to each of you for the welcome. It is nice to be back.

And to celebrate, I have another bit of A&M history to pass along that I think you will appreciate. This concerns the Co-Op housing for students during the Depression that I mentioned in the post about the Corps above.

Old-time Aggieland stories like this are too valuable to be lost in the fog of passing time.
fossil_ag
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The time was the summer of 1932, deep in the Great Depression, mixed in with the days of the Dust Bowl. Today it is hard to believe such a time existed in Texas, and the entire US, when the majority of the population had no money and there were virtually no jobs available to make money. Times were heartbreakingly desperate.

At the little town of Moody in McLennan County, (west of Waco), some high school boys were discussing their dim prospects of going to college at A&M. They knew their families could not afford for them to live so far from home with little money for room and board. Someone suggested they live together and share expenses ... and this led somehow to them making contact with Dr. Dan Russell of A&Ms Rural Sociology Department. Dr. Dan was the Man.

When I knew Dr. Russell in the 50s few people were aware that he was a native Chicagoan, former Chicago policeman, PhD from the University of Chicago ... but somehow had found his way to Texas A&M and was a legend in Texas for rural life enrichment ... he was the early proponent of Co-Ops of all kinds and particularly in agricultural regions. And one of the finest persons I ever met.

Dr. Dan took the boys' proposal, ran it by the faculty, gained his Department's sponsorship (as an experiment) and led the charge ... with the 12 Moody boys in tow.

The group found a vacant house (described as a haunted house) west of campus. It was 2-story, had been vacant a number of years, was dilapidated, had no sanitary accommodations and no plumbing ... but most important, it was for rent at a low rate. They made a deal with the landlord: he would furnish materials and the boys and fathers would make all repairs, dig a well and run pipe connections to the house. The County Agent from Washington County (Brenham), Cesar (Dutch) Hohn '12,(another famous Ag) paid the rent for the house. The house was named Moody House ... and it was the first of the cooperatives.

But that was for starters. Dr. Dan got busy finding other houses suitable for co-op living and rounding up sponsors to rent or purchase .. or to build new ones. In 1933 Co-Ops had grown to accommodate 133 students. Cities, counties, service clubs and even churches, from throughout the state joined in the program. The Rotary Club of Brenham built a house of its own for 20 students. The American Legion constructed a building for 84 students (this brick building in later years was headquarters for campus police ... torn down recently for construction of the John Hagler TAMU Foundation building.) In 1936 A&M spent $100,000 to build 14 houses on campus, each to hold 32 Co-Op students.

By 1938, 1,171 students (23% of the student population of A&M) were bedded down in 52 cooperative housing units. Because the units were spread out, Dr. Dan even arranged transportation for his charges. And the Rural Sociology Department dedicated its time to handle all arrangements, coordinate the entire project and take care of administration. The parents and friends of those students contributed whatever they could to support the effort.

Texas kids who had no other hope for a college education were given that opportunity ... thanks to the collaborative efforts of folks in their home towns, other friends of the college, and Dr. Dan Russell and his A&M Department. The success to the Texas A&M Co-Op program became the model for colleges throughout the nation.

In 1939 Dr. Russell had applications for 600 more students than he had the previous Fall.

But, I suppose one could say, for every silver lining there is a dark cloud ... and this black cloud came from an unexpected source.

Just before the Fall Semester, 1939, the A&M Board of Governors declared that all students enrolled at A&M must reside in school dormitories or in college owned co-ops located on campus ... until all campus facilities were full.

Reportedly, the Board made that decision with no conversation with campus administrators or those connected with the Co-Op program. The decision left possibly 1,000 or so students out in the cold ... because they could not afford the campus room and board expense. Plus all the sponsors of off-campus houses were left high and dry.

Legislators and sponsors of the program were furious and had meetings with the Board but to no avail. The Board refused to budge leading many to believe the order had come from the office of the Governor, W. Lee O'Daniel, (since he had appointed the Board.) Speculation as to the reason was that other towns trying to start up college were losing students to the A&M Co-Op opportunities instead of living at home and attending the local college ... such as Arlington, Tarleton, etc. Another reason was that construction was almost completed in the Fall of 1939 of 12 new dormitories and Duncan Dining Hall on the south side of the campus and the Board wanted to fill those as rapidly as possible when completed ... and the growing Co-Op program threatened that. Unfortunately, the Depression in rural Texas did not end in 1939 and hundreds of Texas kids could not afford to live in the new dormitories.

WWII and 1942 brought many military training courses to A&M and the excess housing was soon absorbed. After the war the on-campus Co-Op houses were converted to married student apartments and when that need diminished in the early 50s these were closed. And that ended the era of cooperative housing at Texas A&M.

But don't ever forget the name of Dr. Dan Russell or the contributions of the old Rural Sociology Department, for their stepping up in the darkest days and extending a helping hand to students in great need. Can you imagine the administration, faculty and staff of today's TAMU performing in such a manner?

There are many stories from the early days of Texas A&M like the ones above. Too many have been lost in the passage of time. It would be worthwhile if someone would collect these in a single volume and make it required reading for each new administrator and faculty member ... so they are aware of the heart and soul put into Texas A&M by their predecessors.


Edit: Not only did Dr. Russell's student Co-Ops help a number of students attend Texas A&M who did not have a chance otherwise, it might be said that his program helped keep the doors of A&M open during the darkest days of the Depression. (Note graduation numbers beginning in 1936.)

Years Enrollment Degrees
1929-30 3,226 303
1930-31 3,068 325
1931-32 2,956 329
1932-33 2,719 336
1933-34 2.922 349
1934-35 3,898 355
1935-36 4,335 394
1936-37 5,136 468
1937-38 5,955 616
1938-39 6,613 708
1939-40 7,177 966



[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 6/15/2006 9:19a).]
3rd Generation Ag
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Fossil, while episodic, this was my Dad's era at Aggieland. One tale told by the family of a Col. Stewart at his funeral was that he lived in the coop housing--only way he could be at school. Their families donation was the family milk cow. After he graduated they brought her home and would jest that they had the only college educated cow in the county.

Another first cousin of Dad lived in the coops and came home when his family could not afford for him to finish. I know realize this probably coincided with the end of the coops.

Dad started A&M in 30, and ended in 37. He finished in three and a half years of actual class time. Not only was the small family farm out from Ralls not productive due to the dust bowl, the small store his father also operated in town went belly up--due to many depression related issues. There was simply no money. My grandmother had chickens and saved her "egg money" for dad's senior ring.

Otherwise he worked. At school he cleaned the various horse barns. While on the school senior livestock judging team. He also would have to stay home a semester at a time, finding any work--one semester he washed dishes at a hotel for instance. He would save every penny--doing without in a way I really can't imagine--and be able to pay for another semester at school. He had no senior boots and no oportunites for recreational events. He worked as a vendor at Kyle, and was able to see games and earn a little money.

In spite of the hardships--and the board and the belts were for real in his day, he formed the deepest love for the school and handed it on to his family. There are some great pictures in his Sul Ross induction booklet--and some of the paddlings pictured brought blood. It was a different time and we were a different people. The toughness A&M required was one factor that helped this generation get through both the depression and the great war. They were in their mid to late 30's before sanity returned to their lives.
fossil_ag
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3GA .... I have met many men of that era who had experiences similar to that of your Dad. I was always astounded by their determination and perseverance to overcome the obstacles life placed in the way of their receiving the degree. Survivors of those hard times developed a mental toughness we seldom see today. Most amazing is that same generation overcame the Depression hardships just in time to spend five years fighting WWII. We are duty bound to make sure their story lives on as inspiration to others who tred the same hallowed ground on the A&M campus.
fossil_ag
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I mentioned Caesar (Dutch) Hohn of Brenham as the Extension Agent in Washington County who paid the rent for that first Co-Op house at A&M (Moody House), and who also helped sponsor a 20-student house for Washington County students later on. But he is connected even more closely to the post above that about the early day Corps of Cadets.

Dutch was 21 years old when he enrolled at Texas A&M in 1908 (the date of the picture accompanying the post.) Dutch was Captain of Charley Moran's football team in 1911 in the infamous 6-0 loss to Texas in Houston that year. He was also Captain of Coach Moran's baseball team in 1912, the year he graduated. (Dutch Hohn also earned the first MS Degree in Agriculture ever awarded at Texas A&M three years later.)

Dutch is A&M's Athletic Hall of Fame ... and if A&M's Extension Service has a Hall of Fame I am confident he is honored there as well. He passed away in 1971 at his home in Independence ... about 30 miles from the campus.


[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 6/15/2006 8:48p).]
EMc77
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Fossil, love your recollections. The tangent about the paddlings/use of the ax handle got me thinking to stories that have been related to me by my best friends dad,'41 and a member of my church in San Angelo who was '43. The bloody britches stories were told by both. Common place, according to them.

My class of '43 friend passed a couple years ago. Man he was a tough bird. Didn't take anything from anyone and would tell you straight, danged the hurt feelings.

My friend's dad is still with us. Was like a second father to me and I feel like he helped raise me with my own dad. His stories of some of the guys he went to school with and all they went thru to get to and stay in school are simply amazing. Truely, our greatest generation. I know that is such a cliche now, but you don't see that same determination nearly as much anymore.

Just some rambling thoughts I had reading your lastest posts.

Thanks again!

[This message has been edited by EMc77 (edited 6/16/2006 6:54a).]
fossil_ag
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I had planned as my next article about early days at A&M to describe my experiences as a Fish Waiter at Sbisa Dining Hall fifty some-odd years ago when we served the Corps family-style meals in one hall in one sitting. That was interesting, but ...

Like other subjects about earlier days at Texas A&M, there was a better story that needed to be told first to set the stage, in this case, about the design and construction of Sbisa itself in 1912, but ...

Like other early A&M subjects, there was even a better story yet to be told about the Aggie who designed and supervised construction of Sbisa Dining Hall. So, back to the beginning.

You have never heard of Freidrich Ernst Giesecke, but if you attended A&M his handiwork touched your life daily. He was born in 1869 and graduated from New Braunfels High School at age 13. He then enrolled at Texas A&M in the Fall of 1883 at age 14. He graduated in the Class of 1886, and in that 1885-1886 school year was the ranking officer in the Corps of Cadets (yep, age 17.) Giesecke joined the A&M faculty after graduation and two years later, at 19, was named head of the Mechanical Engineering Department. He took time off to study at Cornel, MIT, U of Illinois and U of Berlin, and returned to teaching at Texas A&M, and to set up a Department of Architecture in 1905.

F. E. Giesecke, (1886), designed and/or supervised construction of Sbisa Dining Hall in 1912. (That 137,900 square foot building was constructed in 150 days!) I will discuss Sbisa in more detail later ... but first I must complete the story of Dr. Giesecke.

In addition to Sbisa, Dr. Giesecke designed and supervised construction of the Chemistry Building, the System Administration Building, Cushing Memorial Library, Hart Hall, Walton Hall and 14 other buildings on campus. (The way you recognize a Giesecke-designed building is to note that it is still standing ... sturdy and with exquisite classical detail.)

Dr. Giesecke left A&M soon after Sbisa was finished in 1912 for the University of Texas where he set up their School of Architecture. He returned to A&M in 1927 to resume his role as college Architect and Dean of the School of Architecture. For the sheer genius of his art that manifested itself in the many buildings on campus that stand today as living monuments to that fact, Dr. F. E. Giesecke is IMO the most distinguished of the Distinguished Alumni of Texas A&M.

Sbisa Dining Hall (Walks to entry portals converged to Military Walk.)


Now a few facts about the design and construction of Sbisa. The building has 137,900 square feet of total floor space including a partial basement, it was constructed in 150 days and cost $112,529. Constructors today cannot complete the dirt work in 150 days. Sbisa was privately financed (as was the Academic Building) because the State of Texas did not have building funds. Friends of A&M, former students (mainly Col C.B. Cushing, C/O 1880,) signed personal notes with friendly banks to finance the projects.

Dr. Giesecke designed Sbisa to face Military Walk with three portals on the south side that so Corps of Cadets units could march into Sbisa in formations. Sbisa was designed with 42,000 square feet of dining space that included space enough for the Corps on the first floor and with a basement dining area for other uses. (Athletes were fed in the basement hall during the 50s.) Building design was that no supporting pillars would be in the main open dining area (approximately 80X300 feet.) For many years this was a world's largest roofed area without supporting columns. (And one BIG dance floor when the tables and chairs were moved to the walls.)

The center portal for the Corps entry had three Doric columns on either side and the other two portals had one Doric column on either side of the steps. The floors in the dining areas were maple. The ceilings were 18 feet high in the ground floor main dining area and were covered with decorative pressed metal that was popular at the time.

Sbisa was not air-conditioned until the early 60s. In the days before that, large exhaust fans were located in the food preparation area located about mid way along the north wall of the main dining area. Windows were opened on the south wall of the dining area for cooling.

Dr. Giesecke had designed Sbisa so that the Corps of Cadets could march from the dormitories, directly into Sbisa, be seated 10 persons to a table, be served a family style meal by a small army of Fish Waiters and sent on their way to class in within one hour. In the 50s we routinely fed about 2,500 per meal and had remaining space to accommodate about 1,000 more if need be.

One interesting feature of Sbisa was mid way along the north wall and high up was a booth for a PA announcer. When all troops were inside and seated, the Corps Chaplain spoke a blessing for the meal and then the announcer made the announcements of Orders of the Day. When the PA came on, all activity ceased and the room became silent ... except for the whirring of the exhaust fans. That impressed the heck out of me.

But don't get the idea that Sbisa was just a big GI chow hall ... you have to give the Dining Hall stewards great credit for putting out excellent food in the daily course of things ... but Sbisa was also the location of choice for all banquets and dances on campus. And every steward from Mr. Sbisa himself to Penniston in my era could turn out excellent banquet fare. Not unusual, at one Ring Dance banquet in about '53 about 40 waiters marched single file out of the prep area with trays loaded with flaming cherries jubilee for the crowd ... that was a show stopper.

In a day or so I will describe a Fish Waiter's role in feeding a hungry hoard.

(You owe it to yourself sometime when back on campus to go into Sbisa, try to look past all the frou-frou of modern decor and envision the area within those four outer walls ... and the activity during meal time during those early years. Duncan Dining Hall in the south Corps area never had the character of Sbisa.)


[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 6/17/2006 9:31a).]
raford
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Thanks for your last 3 lessons in A&M history, on page 7, Fossil. I was seriously fascinated by them. I should mention here that I am also from Fisher County.
About Sbisa--I never had the opportunity to eat in Sbisa, but I went to many meals in Duncan in 1966-68. I didn't get to eat many of them that first year. I hated Duncan. Duncan had announcers, like Sbisa. Your mention of the announcers makes me remember, right after chow was supposed to start, instead, the announcements would start. We would have to stop eating (if we had gotten to start) and listen to announcements. On yell practice nights, the announcements would end with the word "Tonight", like Ed McMahon announcing Johnny Carson, and all the fish would have to leave right then, without supper, and run to Kyle Field, to eagerly wait for yell practice to start. After yell practice, maybe we got some summer sausage (which had been stored in our hot foot locker in our hot dorm room) for supper. Air conditioning came along in the Duncan area the next year, 1967. Telephones the year after, I believe. Internet was of course unheard of. There was only one computer on campus, so far as we knew, which was in a building called, appropriately enough, the "Computer Building." Or maybe it was the "Data Processing Building.", where "all" data was processed.
I have heard that back in the Old Army Days, of Bull Ring and boards, the mess hall hazing wasn't so bad, I don't know. I always wondered if Sbisa was better, though.
One last thing about Duncan: my fondest memories (maybe the only fond memories) of Duncan were of "Animal Night", where we could eat all we wanted, provided we could gobble it down in record time before someone stopped us. On animal nights we inhaled food like those people in present-day hot-dog eating contests.
But enough of that--what I really wanted to mention was the Project Houses behind the tennis courts. Are these the same houses as your "Coop Houses"? These were four-unit apartment houses, each containing four one-bed room apartments. These cost $52.50 per month in 1968 (when I married) and were generally considered to be the best value of any married housing in town. This included electricity, except for air conditioning. If you wanted to, and could afford it, you could install your own window unit, but had to pay the electric bill on that unit. Otherwise, you could endure the sweltering heat. We did some of both. I was sad when those houses were torn down; in the 70s, I think.

[This message has been edited by raford (edited 6/19/2006 11:44p).]

[This message has been edited by raford (edited 6/19/2006 11:46p).]
fossil_ag
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It was about this time of year 54 years ago that I received the letter from A&M College of Texas that I had been awarded an Opportunity Award Scholarship and that I been selected for a job as a Waiter in Sbisa Dining Hall. Well, Sir, I had been to the campus for football games a couple of times before but honestly did not have any idea just what I was in for. (And neither did the Corps of Cadets which I had not the foggiest idea what that was.)

Freshmen arrived on a Monday and my folks had driven me in from West Texas early that morning to be on time for registration. Registration was at Sbisa and that was my first look at that place, and the size the hall combined with the mass of humanity was terrifying but I figured surely someone there would tell me what to do. I paid my fees, got my dorm room assignment and schedule, went to the dorm and moved my footlocker to the room, said farewell to the folks and they were gone. (And standing in that parking lot I may as well have been on the moon.)

Fortunately, I had been given a slip of paper at registration that said for all new Waiters report back to Sbisa at 11 a.m. for training. So looking at my watch I had about an hour to kill so I went over to North Gate to Sheaffer's Book Store to look for another job that might pay for books and supplies.

Shaeffer's Book Store was located one door west of where University Book Store is now located. Shaeffer's had a cute little cashier named Martha Camp (20 years later Martha bought out the Shaeffers and operated the store for the next 35 years as University Book Store. Anyway, Herb Shaeffer made a deal, If I would help out at the store any free time I had during the day, and sweep out the store at night after closing he would give me all my books and supplies free. That was a fair deal so my schedule was firming up.

At Sbisa at 11, I joined 60 or 70 other guys that looked about like me and we were visiting and looking around like sightseers ... then six or seven fellows in uniform walked in ... and training got serious after that. First they gave each of us a 36 inch tray and showed us how to carry it, then we drilled with those trays for the longest time ... up and down the aisles, in front of us, over the head on finger tips, fast walking (no running, but fast, turns, in traffic ... then we filled the trays with empty pots and pans and did it all again. Then we had drills on setting up a table with cold stuff and beverages and told us how to go through the line for hot stuff ... then they assigned tables and said we would be serving our first meal in about 10 minutes! It probably looked like chaos but these supervisors that someone called upperclassmen were everywhere barking orders, so we fed that bunch of new freshmen their first meal in Sbisa ... and it seemed like everyone had enough to eat. After the meal, and after we had eaten, we had more training and instructions, and the supervisors marched us over to a building where they issued us uniforms. When you got to the head of the line one guy did a quick measurement and called out sizes and guys on down a long table tossed shirts, hats, coats, etc in piles and we gathered it up and placed it all in a laundry bag ... didn't take any time at all. Then the supervisors from Sbisa told us the uniforms for Fish Waiters in Sbisa were khaki trousers, white T-shirt, and the white Waiter's jacket we had been given earlier. Alright!, things were coming together quite well. When they released us I went on over the Shaeffer's to work.

I swept out as Shaffer's that night and got back to my room about 10:30 p.m. My roommate was fast asleep in the lower bunk so I didn't wake him. I still had not met him or even know his name. The next morning I was up before five to get to Sbisa to work. I had on my new khaki pants, white T-shirt, and white Waiter's jacket. The roommate and the dorm were still asleep.

That day we served all three meals and that Waiter business got complicated fast. I had three tables assigned so I was ready for the troops each meal but now when they came in the doors they were in groups of a hundred or more, running and yelling with hands over their heads clogging the aisles. Now the Waiter supervisors had told us our tables would be set up and ready to go before the first of the troops came in the door ... Period ... and that we would be at the hot line ready to load out with hot stuff by the time the first troops entered the door ... Period. So here we went single file out the serving area with trays loaded with enough hot food to feed 30 people directly upstream from that bullrush from the entry doors. Lord, Lord, be with me now ... tray held high above my head on one hand, hoping something can save me from a collision. I survived all three meals without a mishap. But it was wild ... by the time you got through handing out the bowls and platters of hot food to the third table you ran back to the first and started collecting the empty vessels for seconds ... then fast-step back to the serving line to fill those. Seldom you had to go back for third refills ... but when all were satiated with the hot stuff it was back again for dessert. Occasionally you had to make a fast break for refills of beverages but normally two gallons would take care of ten men. All of this transpired within about 15-20 minutes ... and when the tables were satisfied the Waiter could proceed to the Waiter dining area where other Fish Waiters would take care of those tables.

By the second or third day most Fish Waiters had gotten the idea of serving so from then on it was just a matter of honing the skills ... along with a bit of prompting by the everpresent upperclassmen supervisors. But there were everpresent hazards ... while highsteping just short of a dead run, stepping on an errant boiled potatoe or a bit of spilled beverage would send one into an uncontrollable dive ... and there was always the danger of an overexuberant Fish deciding to Wildcat just as you passed behind him at the table with six bowls of hot stew. By the end of that second day I had decided I could do this Fish Waiter thing.

Since we did not have classes those first three days as soon as I was released at Sbisa I went to the bookstore to work. Again, I did not get to the room until about 10:30 p.m., and the roommate again was fast asleep. This same routine was followed on Wednesday also. Shoot, this A&M is not a complicated place after all.

Thursday was our first day of class so I was up again at 5 a.m., off to Sbisa, and on to my first classes. I was curious about all the other fellows in army uniforms ... but my Sbisa supervisor had told us our uniform was khaki pants with white Waiter's jacket so I just wore it to my first day classes ... ignorance is so blissful ... and I kinda felt sorry for all those other guys I saw getting chewed out for something ... but no one messed with me!

And that Thursday afternoon, I was happy that my schedule was open after 3 p.m., so I ambled back to my room hoping to meet my roommate for the first time.

When I got to the Dorm I noticed right off that everyone was in an uproar about something, everyone hustling around. When I went into my room on the second floor, my roommate acted like he had seen a ghost. "Man, where have you been. Change clothes quick we have Drill right now!" "What is Drill?" I asked. He reached inside my laundry bag and pulled out a khaki shirt and cap, started pinning brass things on it and tossed it to me and said, "Put that on and come outside and get in formation!" and he was gone. Ooooooooo, I began getting vibes that things were about to get seriously amiss real quick.

I went outside the Dorm and here were a thousand or so guys in formations and I knew I really belonged in there some where but did not have the foggiest idea where. Soon enough a couple of fellows walked up to me and yelled, "Fish Jones, what outfit are you in?" "Me?, I don't know." Now that answer did bring some hilarity to the situation ... These guys were laughing and yelling at their buddies, "Hey, is anybody missing a Fish?" It had gotten into a real uproar and I was the center of it. Finally a couple of fellows walked over and asked my name and then checked some papers in their hands ... and then the questions really began flying. Where've you been, what've you been doing, have you made any formations, don't you know anything??? And I didn't know anything So one of those fellows took me off to the side and he taught me to march, then another would take his place and teach me some more, and everyone else is back inside the Dorm and I am still marching ... and learning everything I had missed in the past three days of Squadron orientation that I had missed. They let me go just in time for me to put my Waiter's jacket on and get over to Sbisa. Fortunately the weekend was coming up and I had a lot of time to meet my roommate and other Fish in my Squadron and get caught up on most of the indoctrination I had missed. It took a couple of more weeks before the upperclassmen let up on me. I am a pretty fast learner and it didn't take but a few days until I successfully merged my myself into the mass of the other 100 Fish in my Squadron became just another body in the Corps of Cadets.

My Fish Waiter buddies at Sbisa were a special group to me. We were bonded by the particular circumstance that each of us needed the job in order to eat. (Scholarships paid all expenses except for meals.) And we were proud of the work we did ... feeding 2500 or so students family style within the one hour alloted in the schedules for meals. It was an amazing piece of work but the procedures and routines had been honed through 40 years of Sbisa's existance so it is not surprising that it worked well.

Ummm, not always well, if you consider that occasionally a table or tables would violate the tradition of tipping their Fish Waiter just before Corps Trips or Thanksgiving or Christmas. Usually, this was 25 cents per person ... a grand total of $2.50 per table.
Repercussions (or Fish Waiter's wrath) were grim, starting with the next breakfast meal. The customers would be stunned when arriving at their tables to find all utensils in a pile in the middle of the table, the only dry cereal would be All-Bran or Shredded Wheat, and the single trip for seconds would be ever so slow. Usually, the tardy tables would ante up after one meal of this treatment but occasionally it would become a battle of wills (usually by an upperclassman at the table who instigated the holdout knowing full well the consequences and wanting to share this experience with his unsuspecting Fish at the table.) The Waiter's actions were not vindictive or mean spirited, just the Sbisa traditional response to the situation. After a few uncomfortable meals the tips were forthcoming, all was forgiven and Sbisa life resumed.

I suppose today most young people would consider waiting tables in a dining hall demeaning work, but we took great pride in our jobs and were respected by our non-waiter buddies. And one traditons that put the exclamation point on our pride was after the Tuesday meal when we gathered in formation in our white jackets and marched to Yell Practice at the Grove as the Sbisa Volunteers. Our guidon sported a crossed knife and fork.
powerbiscuit
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quote:
I was sad when those houses were torn down; in the 70s, I think.


those houses on the corner of jersey and welborn were still present when I arrived in the mid-eighties....and from what I remember, they looked awfully run down
fossil_ag
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AG
Raford .... My Fish experience was the 52-53 school year. Our freshman class was the first back on main campus after the five year exile to Bryan Airfield. The Fish that year were housed in the north side Dorms and upperclassmen were in the southside Dorms. The Fish units were all quite large, averaging about 100 Fish in each ...but we had a skeleton staff of upperclassmen (12 or so) to handle indoctrination and Dorm affairs. These fellows were diligent in their duties and I can assure had positive control of the situation. But, with the disparity in numbers, only screw-ups got a lot of undivided attention and training. (I learned this lesson quickly!) Normally one upperclassman was at each table in Sbisa ... about the same ratio with the Waiter's tables. I never considered happenings at meal times as hazing but table "manners" were rigidly enforced ... i.e., shortstopping, smiling, handles, incorrect terminology for food items (gun-wadding, artillary, bull-neck, baby, blood, etc.) And someone was always eating square meals, serenading someone, and the like. And the perennial "cush questions." (We went without dessert for months until someone came up with the answer to "What's scaring the horse?"

Outside upperclassmen were not permitted to be in the Fish Dorm area ... but when we were on campus or at North Gate we were fair game ... a lot of bad mouthing but nothing major.

Yes, the Project Houses were originally the 14 college built Co-Op houses. But when used as Co-Op houses, 32 students were assigned to each. They were located about where the old tennis courts were built ... and the Foreign Legion Co-Op was located on the southeast corner of that lot near G.Bush Drive. (It was probably used by the Kampus Kops in the 60s.)
raford
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AG
Thanks, Fossil, for clarifying that the Project houses were the coop houses. We lived in number 14 of the 14 houses, and ours was the one nearest the railroad tracks and nearest the tennis courts. You could easily ride a bike to school from there. The train got really loud, but we got to where you didn't hear it unless you were talking to someone or watching television. We had a little bitty black and white TV which sat on my desk. From this TV my wife and I watched the first steps on the moon in 1969, in the middle of the night.
raford
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AG
Fossil, I give up, what was "scaring the horse"? Sounds like hazing what much worse in the 60's than 50's, or maybe just that is how we remember it.
One thing that I remember, the Corps had just been issued polyester uniforms. We had just one set of khakis, for old times' sake. When things got really bad in the spring, we had to wear that same set of khakis for a week at a time, starching them, unwashed, each night with a can of spray starch and an iron. You could tell how many days we had worn them by the sweat rings.
One funny thing I remember--back then I chain-smoked during call to quarters (enforced study time, 7:30 to 10:30 at night). I had this one grody ash tray completely full of cigarette ashes. One of my fish buddies discovered that cigarette ashes looked just like gunpowder, if you didn't look too carefully through your cloud of smoke. So he replaced the ashes in my ashtray with gunpowder while I was out of the room (hole) for a few minutes, then hung around to watch it explode. Everyone, except me, thought that was quite funny when I lit it up with a cigarette a few minutes later. By my reckoning, I could have had my head blown off.
In case you didn't know, I was in Spider D. Spider D was known as "The Last of the Old Army". Spider D was disbanded between semesters my senior year, for being perenially virtually last in the Corps in marching and grades. This partially was just a legacy of being an Agriculture outfit, partly too much good bull and not enough studying. Anyway, we had a wake at my apartment the night we came back from between semesters and found signs posted on the doors that there was no more Spider D. I was always sort of resentful that in the 90's someone in power named an outfit Spider D for old times sake. When people asked me why I cared so, I always said, you would have to have been there to understand.

[This message has been edited by raford (edited 6/20/2006 9:56p).]

[This message has been edited by raford (edited 6/20/2006 9:58p).]
powerbiscuit
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nm...

[This message has been edited by powerbiscuit (edited 6/21/2006 6:41a).]
 
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