Ukraine and the Biden crime syndicate ****ed around and found out and they did it at our expense.

Every time I hear someone utter "war crimes" I shutter at the weakness. If I go to war I'm cutting eyeballs out and there are no prisoners. This civilized war **** has to stop. If we're provoked to the point of war, kill until the enemy is no more or lays down and begs for mercy.

Last point: **** Ukraine. And **** Russia for that matter. **** the EU.

This is a Europe problem and the only ones that give a **** enough about it to throw money at it are the dumbass Americans. Bleeding hearts everywhere.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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They have no interest in ending a war where they are forced to concede outlandish concessions that harm their sovereignty and future.

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Then they don't have to. They can fight away. They just can't keep taking our money and weapons. They are a sovereign nation. Let them pay their own way.

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Agreed

Fight on, their choice not ours

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Correct we also can choose to not give them another penny and no more weapons. You good with that?

Yep. And while it's a "Europe problem" is something I agree on, note that it's big business all the way around. Take, for instance the Europeans new 'don't buy American' stuff for their mostly-words re-armament initiative. Anduril, one of our big innovators in organized state-sanctioned killing, is thus going to build a big plant in the UK.

Anduril has an existing UK arm and this is a logical move for them to sustain/grow this business pending their IPO. It's an exceptionally effective 'disrupter' (or innovator) in weaponry used in this conflict and beyond, whose backers certainly don't want it to lose European market share out of any kind of 'patriotic' or political interests.

Fascinating company, really.

It's not really the CCA/drones they are focused on, but the SaaS side, imho. Their backers (not just Thiel) are quite notable (including 8VC out of Austin, and Lux). Just an example of the industrial machinery of modern war. People think of Porsche, Mitsubishi, or perhaps even Krupp or Siemens in times gone by as the big 'profiteers' of our enemies but the reality is the machinery drives onward.

nortex97 said:

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Yep. And while it's a "Europe problem" is something I agree on, note that it's big business all the way around. Take, for instance the Europeans new 'don't buy American' stuff for their mostly-words re-armament initiative. Anduril, one of our big innovators in organized state-sanctioned killing, is thus going to build a big plant in the UK.

Anduril has an existing UK arm and this is a logical move for them to sustain/grow this business pending their IPO. It's an exceptionally effective 'disrupter' (or innovator) in weaponry used in this conflict and beyond, whose backers certainly don't want it to lose European market share out of any kind of 'patriotic' or political interests.

Fascinating company, really.

It's not really the CCA/drones they are focused on, but the SaaS side, imho. Their backers (not just Thiel) are quite notable (including 8VC out of Austin, and Lux). Just an example of the industrial machinery of modern war. People think of Porsche, Mitsubishi, or perhaps even Krupp or Siemens in times gone by as the big 'profiteers' of our enemies but the reality is the machinery drives onward.

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That's fine. If we bring manufacturing for the stuff we use back here, and we lose a little bit of home manufacturing overseas bc of those CUUUCKS new initiative, it's still a net positive for us. I have a lot of european "friends"/acquaintances. Many very nice people, but they do have a "dumb american" attitude that has to be overcome. Their general view of americans is less than.

What good do Europeans provide us? Do they offer the world any innovation that we can't/don't already do better? They're old power that is held up by American dominance. Leave them to stand on their own two feet. We can partner elsewhere.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Zelensky delegation shows up dressed in stuff they got for cheap when Colonel Bubbie's in Galveston closed down.

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Man, you could spend a couple of hours in that place and not even realize it. Thanks for the memory.

backintexas2013 said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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They have no interest in ending a war where they are forced to concede outlandish concessions that harm their sovereignty and future.

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Then they don't have to. They can fight away. They just can't keep taking our money and weapons. They are a sovereign nation. Let them pay their own way.

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Agreed

Fight on, their choice not ours

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Correct we also can choose to not give them another penny and no more weapons. You good with that?

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As long as we aren't siding with Russia and trying to strongarm their government into giving away their future, sure!

Do I like us turning back on them, no. What I hate even worse is enabling a dictator who has lied, murdered innocents, and made repeated attempts at stamping out the cultural identity of Ukraine.

I get not wanting to bankroll countries, I do (even if it's part of defense budgets and a higher ROI than we would ever get just spilling it into R&D)

What I don't get - is this clear effort by the Trump administration to appease Putin. That's cowardice, and detrimental to our international diplomacy that will take years to fix.

We should stay out of it but libs and warhawks love their government spending. Cut off Ukraine and wish them well. Also Europe should stop doing business with Russia but that won't happen.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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They have no interest in ending a war where they are forced to concede outlandish concessions that harm their sovereignty and future.

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Then they don't have to. They can fight away. They just can't keep taking our money and weapons. They are a sovereign nation. Let them pay their own way.

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Agreed

Fight on, their choice not ours

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Correct we also can choose to not give them another penny and no more weapons. You good with that?

---

As long as we aren't siding with Russia and trying to strongarm their government into giving away their future, sure!

Do I like us turning back on them, no. What I hate even worse is enabling a dictator who has lied, murdered innocents, and made repeated attempts at stamping out the cultural identity of Ukraine.

I get not wanting to bankroll countries, I do (even if it's part of defense budgets and a higher ROI than we would ever get just spilling it into R&D)

What I don't get - is this clear effort by the Trump administration to appease Putin. That's cowardice, and detrimental to our international diplomacy that will take years to fix.

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I don't see it as cowardice. It is partly our fault for this mess, and Ukraine, as corrupt as they are, have been promised protection in the past. It was inept leadership by the US and we're trying to change that.

America is the only reason Ukraine is in this war and Trump is telling them the funding is coming to an end and trying to work out a better deal for us in the process. If we have stake in Ukraine, Russia isn't advancing in the future. It's in their best interest to negotiate as they've gone out for funding from Europe and the other NATO countries and aren't giving it. Surprise Surprise...

On some points you are correct.

All I want is a fair, equitable peace, that doesn't strip Ukraine of its future, OR embolden's Russia to do this again.

At our current trajectory, they absolutely will take their gains and give it another go in 5 years unless we take that option off the table.

Right now we're in a game of chicken where Russia knows we don't have the balls to run into them.

Because we don't have to. It's not our fight. Let's back away.

Its okay for us to "lose" a fight we don't belong in.

And I want all our money back.

Kiev gripes that Witkoff should be dismissed by Trump.

12 hours vs. 40 minutes is an indicator.

That they spend just 40 minutes with the Ukrainians and 12 hours with the Russians tells us a lot. Real concessions have been made to Russia and the Ukrianians are pissed.

— Kono (@Koen_2015) March 25, 2025

🇷🇺🇺🇸 The consultations between Russia and the United States in Riyadh have officially concluded.

Russian delegates Grigory Karasin and Sergei Beseda will brief President Putin upon their return to Moscow, according to Senator Vladimir Dzhabarov. The details of the talks remain… pic.twitter.com/kgEU1zjWE5

— DD Geopolitics (@DD_Geopolitics) March 24, 2025

Negotiating a peace is not a betrayal of Ukraine:

Quote:

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President Donald Trump has abandoned the Biden policies of "nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine" and of isolating Russia. He has pushed Volodymyr Zelensky to the negotiating table and negotiated with Vladimir Putin. He has advocated for ending the war without having weakened Russia and without Ukraine having won back its captured land.

Europe and Canada are angry. France's Emmanuel Macron and Britain's Keir Starmer are assembling a "coalition of the willing" to go on supporting Ukraine. Canada's new prime minister, Mark Carney, joined Macron in his first overseas trip in "their unwavering support for Ukraine as it continues to resist Russia's unjustifiable war of aggression." While ostensibly encouraging a ceasefire, they are also encouraging Ukraine to stick to conditions that would doom a ceasefire, such as Western-backed security guarantees, which Moscow launched its invasion to prevent.

While Democrats, Europeans, and Canadians have the right to feel betrayed by almost everything else Trump has done domestically and foreign, it is they, and not Trump, who are betraying Ukraine.
Negotiations are not appeasement. There are several reasons why the Trump administration's ceasefire strategy is not a betrayal.

In a world of journalism and political announcements by social media, of hybrid wars and disinformation, reality still counts. Russia is winning the war; Ukraine is losing. The continuation of the war would bring more loss of life and land to Ukraine. Thus, sustaining the war is a betrayal of Ukraine's interests. Nothing would be gained and many Ukrainian lives would be lost by its prolongation.

Reality still counts off the battlefield as well as on. Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. The Trump administration has made this clear, and they have handed that verdict down to their NATO allies. On March 14, when NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte was asked if Trump had taken NATO membership for Ukraine off the table in negotiations, he simply replied, "Yes." Even before Trump's reelection, Ukraine was not about to join the alliance. NATO's door was closed even during the Biden administration, which always stopped short of offering anything more than the empty promise of an "irreversible path" and always refused to put American troops on Ukrainian soil.

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More at the link.

No wonder the Kiev delegation stormed out quickly.

🇷🇺 USA heard Russia's signal on guarantees, understands that only they can achieve a positive result in stopping terrorist attacks and attacks by Kiev - Lavrov

"The Russian Federation will need clear guarantees when resuming the Black Sea initiative; they can only be the result… pic.twitter.com/8YV7jeW1ab

— DD Geopolitics (@DD_Geopolitics) March 25, 2025

Kremlin: Main results of the meeting of expert groups of russia and the us
March 25, 2025
1. In accordance with the agreement of the presidents of Russia and the US, the Russian and american sides agreed to ensure the implementation of the "Black Sea Initiative", which includes…

— Giovanni Staunovo🛢 (@staunovo) March 25, 2025

According to Zelensky ceasefire will go into effect after "White House statement", so possible the lifting of sanctions will be announced https://t.co/532NHzkopX

— Liveuamap (@Liveuamap) March 25, 2025

Good news overall.

UKRAINE: Zelensky is complaining that Russia is positioning its Navy to begin full scale attacks inside Ukraine. Ukraine began using long range missiles against Crimea this week during peace talks in Riyadh. The EU is pressuring Zelensky not to accept a peace deal. https://t.co/aCBcRoaowd pic.twitter.com/mautgFHh3M

— @amuse (@amuse) March 26, 2025

I'm not clicking on a book of faces link but this is believable, and claimed elsewhere. Will we see a WH announcement of more terms today, or is Zelensky/Kiev regime holding things up?

Rumors circulating that a joint statement from the U.S. and Russia was not released at the time it had been announced because of Ukraines objections to the concessions that Russia requires as part of any settlement.

Specifically the withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from annexed…

— ayden (@squatsons) March 25, 2025

Kommersant, one of Russia’s most respected publications: Putin is giving the West & Ukraine a short window to accept the four Eastern oblasts as permanent Russian territory. If no deal, the West risks having Kharkiv, Dnipro, Mykolaiv & Odessa included in subsequent demands. pic.twitter.com/RAo6wMv6Dm

— Alan Watson (@DietHeartNews) March 25, 2025

RT: Lavrov takes.

Quote:

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Trump's focus on US national interests
In contrast, Lavrov was relatively optimistic about the direction of US foreign policy under Trump, praising what he called a realistic, interest-driven approach. He emphasized that Trump's team acknowledges that great powers may have conflicting interests but must find ways to avoid direct confrontation.

Lavrov said Trump's emphasis on national interest over ideological campaigns represents a welcome shift. He added that the Trump administration recognizes Russia's security needs, and that mutual respect is the only path forward.

Restoring mutually beneficial MoscowWashington ties
Lavrov made it clear that Moscow is open to restoring ties with Washington but not under the Biden-era framework. Dialogue, he insisted, must be mutually respectful and based on enforceable agreements. Quoting President Ronald Reagan, Lavrov said: "Trust, but verify. We won't forget that."

"We do not have any illusions... But we have a consensus that Trump's team wants to make these relations mutually beneficial where possible, mutually respectful where we disagree, and not allow the disagreements between the two largest nuclear powers to escalate into a confrontation," Lavrov added, calling US-Russia ties under Biden an "anomaly," now giving way to a return to "normalcy."

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https://thenationalpulse.com/2025/03/27/zelensky-launches-scathing-new-attack-on-trump-team-hes-good-at-real-estate-this-is-different/

Quote:

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The Ukrainian leader went on to seemingly insult Witkoff, saying, "He doesn't look like a military man. He doesn't look like a general, and he doesn't have such experience. As far as I know, he is very good at selling and buying real estate. And this is a little different."

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Wants money, weapons, and support....insults the people who can provide those things. Bold strategy.

Leftists / Communists / Socialists in the USA supported the "Republican" rebels in the Spanish Civil War which were aligned and supported by the Russians and Soviet Union from 1936-1939

Leftists / Communists / Socialists in the USA supported the Soviet Union/Russia from 1940-1945 against the Germans

Leftists/Communists/Socialists basically supported the NVA and Viet Cong and the side of the Russians/Soviet Union in Vietnam from 1967-1973

Leftists/communists/socialists supported Nicaragua and El Salvador in the 1980s on the side of Russia/Soviet Union

SUDDENLY in 2024 the Leftists / Communists / Socialists in the USA now support Ukraine militarily against Russia.

can anyone explain this?

The Dem party is now aligned with the Communist Chinese Party, as the Soviet Union no longer exists.

But that's an oversimplification really, as the Dems have partnered with the Russians as well, or rather their oligarch class, which has benefited along with Ukraine's (and Europe's) from this war.

LMCane said:

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Leftists / Communists / Socialists in the USA supported the "Republican" rebels in the Spanish Civil War which were aligned and supported by the Russians and Soviet Union from 1936-1939

Leftists / Communists / Socialists in the USA supported the Soviet Union/Russia from 1940-1945 against the Germans

Leftists/Communists/Socialists basically supported the NVA and Viet Cong and the side of the Russians/Soviet Union in Vietnam from 1967-1973

Leftists/communists/socialists supported Nicaragua and El Salvador in the 1980s on the side of Russia/Soviet Union

SUDDENLY in 2024 the Leftists / Communists / Socialists in the USA now support Ukraine militarily against Russia.

can anyone explain this?

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Well, if you don't understand why the US can't lend Israel 6 B-2 bombers, then not sure what explanations you'd understand.

How profound.

How about trying to answer the question rather than thread derailing and trolling?

mallen said:

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Zelensky is a hero, Trump and Vance are imbeciles.

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How much Honeywell, Lockheed and Raytheon stock do you own?

agwrestler said:

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mallen said:

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Zelensky is a hero, Trump and Vance are imbeciles.

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How much Honeywell, Lockheed and Raytheon stock do you own?

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246 stars to that hero post....just wow.

LMCane said:

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How profound.

How about trying to answer the question rather than thread derailing and trolling?

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Ok. Trying to force a narrative and connect dots that you have labeled that span over 100 years (thus many generations), very different situations, and dramatically different geographical locations (and thus cultures) is a fools errand. I loathe liberals/communists/socialists but you're trying to push a simpleton's point of view. Kind of like you claiming that you try to convince US and Israeli officials to have the US lend B-2 bombers to Israel (a scenario that shows you don't know enough to know you don't know anything about what you're suggesting)

Well…Germany and France have to be at negotiating table, per Z, and he's impatiently waiting on his next 'aid package' from Trump/Rubio.

Zelensky: No sanctions will be lifted until a just peace is achieved.

At a press conference following the “Coalition of the Willing” summit in Paris, the President outlined key messages:

– Sanctions: European leaders confirmed — no easing of sanctions on Russia until the war… pic.twitter.com/TxyPEbc86R

— SPRAVDI — Stratcom Centre (@StratcomCentre) March 27, 2025

Denies any ceasefire in Black Sea:

There is no ceasefire in the Black Sea or energy sector – Zelensky.

“Silence in the Black Sea benefits Russia—they have suffered losses there. Meanwhile, our Food Security corridor is operational.”

Despite U.S. views, no ceasefire exists. Today, Russians struck energy… pic.twitter.com/ibUAWd8NAz

— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) March 27, 2025

Senior Ukrainian officials said the expansive new Trump administration proposal could undermine their nation’s sovereignty, route profits abroad and deepen its dependence on Washington. Read our report 👇 https://t.co/kQVvfapq8l

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) March 27, 2025

Zelensky will have to go before peace can be achieved, imho.

I am constantly blown away by the mental gymnastics you perform to turn this back on Zelensky day in, day out

How come putin doesn't have to go?
Or how come putin can't just order his orcs to back up?
Is your income at risk?

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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I am constantly blown away by the mental gymnastics you perform to turn this back on Zelensky day in, day out

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It's pretty impressive. Zelenksyy is the only one of the two people involved to actually offer a ceasefire (that Putin rejected). And yet it's still somehow Zelenskyy's fault.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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I am constantly blown away by the mental gymnastics you perform to turn this back on Zelensky day in, day out

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It's pretty impressive. Zelenksyy is the only one of the two people involved to actually offer a ceasefire (that Putin rejected). And yet it's still somehow Zelenskyy's fault.

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Zelensky is the Vladimir who is pissing on Trump's plan/efforts, fyi. Both Vlads would happily accept the unconditional surrender of the other, but that seems like a childish offer, imho. Zelensky's stance about peace with Moscow is best reflected in his two favorite portraits he bragged about this month; the Kremlin burning and Ukrainians invading Russia (most of whom would die):

In truth, Vlad Putin is closer to an American-interest ally than the other Vlad though, or Rutte/Soros/Macron etc.

Putin is effectively offering to support/acknowledge an American sphere of influence in the Western hemisphere (in exchange for the support/acquiescence of establishing Russia’s in Eastern Europe) https://t.co/7vx5L4iYzn

— Dmitri Alperovitch (@DAlperovitch) March 27, 2025

Trump is just trying to extricate the US from involvement, get payment in return for all the profligate waste during Biden's time, and end the war. One would think all of this would be quite popular.

Now you can read the full US draft deal, linked in our @FT story: https://t.co/PDDgQvuLP9

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) March 27, 2025

Wait, it is!

Putin is supporting the Greenland acquisition because it further destabilizes NATO and our relationship with the EU.

It's not hard to see through his game he's playing.

Well not hard for anyone but Trump I guess

An alliance with Russia for safe trade through the Arctic benefits the US and Russia alike. Interests are what matters, not historical hatreds etc. That's ironically…how we won the Cold War, by wholly setting aside 'our' anger at the Germans/Japanese/Italians, to rather partner with and rebuild them.

Today, the Germans/Brits/French governments/aristocracies are more closely aligned with Soros and China, than the US. We need out of Nato, asap.

I love how the WSJ journal, an American publication, wonders how European allies can trust the US. Are you kidding?! It goes both ways. https://t.co/YQjzTrNzOx

— General Spalding (@robert_spalding) March 26, 2025

The euro's cannot be trusted.

Considering Russia invaded his country and has murdered tens of thousands of his citizens, I think his animosity towards Russia is understandable.

The fact remains - Zelenskyy offered a ceasefire and Putin said no. Your usual wall of text/tweets does nothing to dispute that.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Considering Russia invaded his country and has murdered tens of thousands of his citizens, I think his animosity towards Russia is understandable.

The fact remains - Zelenskyy offered a ceasefire and Putin said no. Your usual wall of text/tweets does nothing to dispute that.

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And I didn't know the somali pirates have expanded to the artic. Scary stuff to have to align with putin to get our Panamanian flagged ships through.

You make a very fine point. Let's absolutely trade with Russia. After they agree to reparations for killing tens of thousands in an unlawful invasion of a Sovereign neighbor.

Oh, and since you mention Germany, Japan, Italy. Let's look at what they had to do post WW2

Germany

Potsdam Agreement (1945): Required Germany to pay reparations mainly through industrial dismantling and resource extraction, particularly to the Soviet Union.

Paris Agreement on German External Debts (1953): Reduced and restructured Germany's debt, enabling economic recovery.

Marshall Plan (1948-1952): While initially subject to reparations, West Germany became a major beneficiary, receiving around $1.4 billion in U.S. aid.

Japan

San Francisco Peace Treaty (1951): Japan agreed to pay reparations to several countries, particularly in Asia.

Bilateral Reparations Agreements:

Philippines $550 million

Indonesia $223 million

Burma (Myanmar) $200 million

South Vietnam, South Korea, etc. Various settlements

U.S. Assistance: Japan did not receive Marshall Plan funds but benefited from U.S. economic aid (over $2 billion) and investment, especially during the Korean War.

Italy

Paris Peace Treaties (1947): Required Italy to pay $360 million in reparations to nations like Greece, Yugoslavia, and the Soviet Union.

Limited U.S. Aid: Italy was included in the Marshall Plan, receiving around $1.5 billion, helping stabilize its economy.

Yep. The war's losers needed some help. In this case, that would be Ukraine, and who better than Europe to do that. But, Europe is militarily irrelevant so we had to provide the vast majority of actual munitions.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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You make a very fine point. Let's absolutely trade with Russia. After they agree to reparations for killing tens of thousands in an unlawful invasion of a Sovereign neighbor.

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Lets let Europe and Ukraine worry about that, our voters dont care.