Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy

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Science Denier
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 8:27a, 3/4/25
Waffledynamics said:
john_football said:
Massive and potentially decisive information warfare victory for Russia. Their payloads landed and their narratives are now dominant.


The sickening part is how transparent it is and how willingly the targets eat it up.

I don't even understand how that happens. It genuinely boggles the mind.

Zelensky clearly laid out the reasons a simple ceasefire won't work. People ignore it completely even though it's indisputable. I genuinely do not understand it.
You don't understand it? It's pretty basic.
1. We want to stop paying for this stupid "war". WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY!!!
2. We can negotiate a deal where Ukraine stays a country. If this goes on much longer, they won't.
3. We want some of our money back

DUH!!! What is so hard to understand?

What "Russian narrative" is there in that?
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BlackGold
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In reply to The Fall Guy • 8:28a, 3/4/25
The far left love to use boogey men to rile up their low IQ supporters. The Soviet Union hasn't existed for decades and never will again. Get over it and stop pointing back to Cold War policy and feelings.
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Tom Fox
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8:28a, 3/4/25
Ukraine can absolutely refuse any deal they do not think is in their economic interests.

And they are free to keep fighting Russia to death. They just are going to have to do it without US economic or military support moving forward.

Slava Ukraine!
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Yukon Cornelius
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In reply to Clavell • 8:30a, 3/4/25
Kissinger was an effective but terrible person. Bankrupted America for his own personal view of how the world should look. Used America to fund wars for 80 years.
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Science Denier
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In reply to Zobel • 8:35a, 3/4/25
Quote:
I disagree. I think that once it became clear that Russia wasn't going to topple Kiev in a few days, the US saw a golden opportunity to attrit Russia. That's why we have put handcuffs on Ukraine, slow-rolled materiel, gave them restrictions on where they could use what. It's a blatantly obvious strategy: keep the war at a stalemate as long as possible to reduce Russia's capacity for making war.
Wrong. The reason to slow-play the war was to get money for our liberal politicians. They don't just make a trip over there during a war for no reason. Ukraine was NEVER going to be able to hold out. They don't have the bodies. They have lost millions of citizens and there are not enough left to fight.

Our left doesn't give a flying **** about anyone in Ukraine. They want their kick-backs. They are losing their gravy train. Much like losing USAID, which they also screeched about.
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Clavell
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:40a, 3/4/25
When you have Congress, State Department, and Media all pulling in same direction to get out of Vietnam NOW, blaming the loss on Nixon/Kissinger seems odd. Everything they did to support and build up the South Vietnamese capability to take over was fought against (in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia). Ultimately resulting not only the loss of South Vietnam, but the Killing Fields in Cambodia.
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Clavell
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In reply to Yukon Cornelius • 8:42a, 3/4/25
Actually Kissinger was born in Germany, not Poland, although not sure why it matters to you.
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BusDriver89
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8:43a, 3/4/25
After the poop festival that is Trump 2.0, the Dems will be in power for decades. Stephen A. Smith in 2028.
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TacosaurusRex
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In reply to ReturnOfTheAg • 8:44a, 3/4/25
ReturnOfTheAg said:
rgag12 said:
Waffledynamics said:
john_football said:
Massive and potentially decisive information warfare victory for Russia. Their payloads landed and their narratives are now dominant.


The sickening part is how transparent it is and how willingly the targets eat it up.

I don't even understand how that happens. It genuinely boggles the mind.

Zelensky clearly laid out the reasons a simple ceasefire won't work. People ignore it completely even though it's indisputable. I genuinely do not understand it.


Great, only way Ukraine can obtain a positive outcome is if the US sends its troops over there. You going on the next flight, right?

Oh, you want someone else to fight for you?

I guess looking at reality is now a Russian narrative? All the pro-Ukrainian people want to do is squabble about who started the war and other moral justifications for fighting. They never want to look at the reality on the ground and how the war will end and the consequences. Don't believe me? Go look at our own pro-uke war thread. For a couple years now it's been all military tech talk, nothing about actual strategy. That's because Ukraine has no strategy to win the war, it's over.


Tell me how the war being "over" means that Ukraine can't have an equitable peace agreement.

Not ONCE has Trump demanded some form of concession on the part of Russia.

It's all been "You can't win" "You have no choice" "You'd be dead in two weeks without us" to Zelensky and Ukraine.

Why on Earth should Zelensky think Trump is a good faith negotiator when he hasn't even remotely made express demands for Russia to make concessions.

When did demanding an equitable peace become irrational. I don't get it.
Because this isn't fourth grade PE. Why would anything be equitable? I do not agree with a single thing Russia has done, and they should be punished for war crimes, but why would they want anything to be equitable? They are the bigger power and hold all the cards right now, and approaching this like we want things to be fair is never going to go anywhere. If life was fair we wouldn't be having this conversation because the war never happened.
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Yukon Cornelius
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In reply to Clavell • 8:45a, 3/4/25
Doesn't matter other than he's from Eastern Europe. He drove our foreign policy for 80 years. Which was to get off the gold standard. Use endless fiat to bankroll forever wars to shape the world to his liking.

Eastern Europe is not so different than the Middle East. 1000s of years of conflicts and he kept us in it.

Nothing he did was to Americas benefit. Always leveraging the US for his own will.
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nortex97
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In reply to Yukon Cornelius • 8:59a, 3/4/25
No doubt he had a high IQ, but certainly had a Charlemagne/Caesar Augustus complex. Or maybe Bismarck or Ben Disraeli.

Whatever.

I don't think much of his legacy, though I don't argue with the assertion that he had a large impact on foreign affairs/American Presidents in his life. I find it fascinating to see him still held in high regard by some/many, ironically on the left often. I hold Zbignew, Mika's pop, in similarly low regard, or rather, much lower.

We need a fresh crop of realists putting American interests first and not meddling in every corner of the world in foreign policy. I hope somehow Rubio-Trump-Vance etc. will bring that new generation of leadership into our State Department etc.
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Gigem314
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In reply to BusDriver89 • 9:02a, 3/4/25
BusDriver89 said:
After the poop festival that is Trump 2.0, the Dems will be in power for decades. Stephen A. Smith in 2028.
I seem to recall hearing this after Trump's first term...
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Yukon Cornelius
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In reply to nortex97 • 9:02a, 3/4/25
Well said. It's a weird deal because Kissinger did make America more influential and powerful on the world stage. So think for that reason he is highly regarded. But the question is was the positions and more importantly the wars we fought truly what was best for America.

I just want American leaders doing what is solely best for Americans. Seems so simple yet we haven't had it in such a long time. Hoping Trump can deliver.
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Clavell
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In reply to Yukon Cornelius • 9:12a, 3/4/25
You should ask what wars he prevented. Of course that can never be proven.

"But the root dilemma of our time is that if the quest for peace turns into the sole objective of policy, the fear of war becomes a weapon in the hands of the most ruthless; it produces moral disarmament. How to strive for both peace and justice, for an end of war that does not lead to tyranny, for a commitment to justice that does not produce cataclysmto find this balance is the perpetual task of the statesman in the nuclear age." Kissinger
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Prosperdick
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In reply to Gigem314 • 9:40a, 3/4/25
Gigem314 said:
BusDriver89 said:
After the poop festival that is Trump 2.0, the Dems will be in power for decades. Stephen A. Smith in 2028.
I seem to recall hearing this after Trump's first term...
Yeah if you thought Biden's 4 years were a disaster just wait until Kamala or whoever the Dems run in '28 wins...then you'll see the REAL **** show.
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DannyDuberstein
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9:42a, 3/4/25
Signing ourselves up to protect them in perpetuity is basically signing up to be on the brink of WW3 in perpetuity. Completely illogical. I just don't care about former soviet states to risk ourselves. Russia is a paper tiger that can barely keep a sliver of a former soviet state. They are not a risk to roll thru Europe. But they do have nukes, so playing dumb games on their border is dangerous
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to nortex97 • 9:43a, 3/4/25
nortex97 said:
Kissinger's lasting legacy is pretty negative, imho, though he opened relations with the Soviets and Chinese through his work. I've never met a Vietnam veteran who liked/respected him, though.

The Cold War is over, and nato is a threat to American peace and security (financial and otherwise), not a cornerstone of it.


If this is anything like Benz's "cities will burn to the ground after Trump wins" prediction, I think we're safe. There's no chance we go to war in Europe unless Putin attacks a NATO country, and in that case he'd be the one starting WW3 (just as he's the one who started this war).
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9:47a, 3/4/25
JFABNRGR
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In reply to [removed post] • 9:49a, 3/4/25
PA24 said:
If Ukrainians wanted Russia out, they should use the same tactics as the Afghans used against them.



With the weapons and aid the US gave them?
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Gigem314
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In reply to Prosperdick • 9:51a, 3/4/25
Prosperdick said:
Gigem314 said:
BusDriver89 said:
After the poop festival that is Trump 2.0, the Dems will be in power for decades. Stephen A. Smith in 2028.
I seem to recall hearing this after Trump's first term...
Yeah if you thought Biden's 4 years were a disaster just wait until Kamala or whoever the Dems run in '28 wins...then you'll see the REAL **** show.
The Dems get worse with every administration, that's old news. I guess it's a good thing we held it off for at least 4 years then.
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FIDO_Ags
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9:55a, 3/4/25
Quote:
If Ukrainians wanted Russia out, they should use the same tactics as the Afghans used against them.


The terrain in Ukraine doesn't favor that type of warfare.
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Marvin_Zindler
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10:05a, 3/4/25
Are we tired of winning yet?

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samurai_science
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10:09a, 3/4/25
Ukraine needs a leadership change
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Gigem314
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 10:09a, 3/4/25
Marvin_Zindler said:
Are we tired of winning yet?

The art of the...deal?
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Burdizzo
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In reply to JFABNRGR • 10:14a, 3/4/25
JFABNRGR said:
PA24 said:
If Ukrainians wanted Russia out, they should use the same tactics as the Afghans used against them.



With the weapons and aid the US gave them?



Let me know when the Ukrainians are willing to live in caves, living on goat meat, and sustaining a guerilla war for 20 years. That is pretty much what the Afghans did to us, and when everything was said and done, we gave them our weapons on the way out .
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FireAg
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10:19a, 3/4/25
Masterfully handled, Mr. President…

All doubters can get bent…
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Tom Kazansky 2012
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 10:23a, 3/4/25
Marvin_Zindler said:
Are we tired of winning yet?



Looks like the mafia was waiting for our PJs wearing friend when he got home. He's done.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 10:27a, 3/4/25
Marvin_Zindler said:
Are we tired of winning yet?



Great message from Zelenskyy. Hopefully Russia is actually interested in ending the war.
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backintexas2013
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In reply to ReturnOfTheAg • 10:28a, 3/4/25
ReturnOfTheAg said:
backintexas2013 said:
ReturnOfTheAg said:
Tom Kazansky 2012 said:
Zobel said:
50% of all of government own natural resources in perpetuity is generous?


It's a fund for joint investment in Ukraine. America makes money in investing in reconstruction.

It's not onerous at all. If anything it's a layup for America to show we have economic interest in rebuilding Ukraine.

Trump isn't going to take the minerals sold money to reinvest in America or anythingread your link.

Perpetuity is silly and you're painting the deal like some awful offer to Ukraine. It's a hook up.


It's extortion


What exactly is extortion?


How about forcing a Mineral Rights deal that is 4 times the dollars that we've given Ukraine.

Supporting a nation fighting for its survival against an imperialist dictator should not be contingent on them essentially dumping their entire economy into the United States hands.

The deal also requires them to pay back double the price of future aid? A 100 percent loan? Who would agree to that.

If you can't see how that's extortion I don't know what to tell you. It makes us no better than Russia - instead of physically pillaging their country we'd financially be doing it.


Then they don't accept the deal. Teslaag said Ukraine doesn't need support anymore so there is no extortion.

If they do They can go to Europe for funding. They can self fund if needed.

This isn't extortion. They are a country they can make tough choices. If we were going to nuke them if they didn't give us minerals that's extortion. They can get support from so many other places.
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LegalDrugPusher
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10:32a, 3/4/25
To all Trump haters and all you who've been kissing Zelinski's ass for the last four days how do you feel now?
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backintexas2013
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In reply to Yukon Cornelius • 10:32a, 3/4/25
Europe should have stopped doing business with them the minute they invaded. They didn't. They point at evil Russia while they continued to do business with them.
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backintexas2013
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 10:34a, 3/4/25
Hopefully he is too and hopefully we don't send anymore weapons or money.
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nortex97
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10:34a, 3/4/25
I'm perfectly fine if the Euro's want to spend more on defense via bond sales/debt etc. The issue is they are rarely cost-efficient and take forever, as with the cost to produce 155mm ammo there it is much higher because each little principality wants it all done within their borders for their buys.

We've got our own wars to fight. Trudeau's commie heir apparent, the nazi lady, is asking for nuclear protection from us from the UK.


Euro's and Canadians are super serious, guys and gals.
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BCSWguru
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10:39a, 3/4/25
Took what, a week, to make this happen? Everyone should be questioning why this wasn't done years ago. We know the answer, and its an indication of just how bad the grift is. They will literally send millions to the slaughterhouse just so they can get rich.
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f1ghtintexasaggie
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In reply to Marvin_Zindler • 10:43a, 3/4/25
Marvin_Zindler said:
Are we tired of winning yet?



You all read this as an apology? I don't see one.
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