ReturnOfTheAg said:

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The idea that Zelensky is not well-liked Ukraine is a Russian propaganda farce.

To think otherwise is foolish. He's a wartime president who has fought diplomatically tooth and nail and never once abandoned his population when things got dire.

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It's President Trump and VP Vance you are trying to make this point against, I suppose (and certainly not me or anything I have posted), but it is not really supported. (Caution, link is fairly pro-Russian).

Zelensky is so unlikeable he pissed off the most Pro Ukrainian American politicans.

He's not even popular in Ukraine, he consistantly loses in polling against a former general. https://t.co/VG2fDjThNH pic.twitter.com/4VOp7V96wF

— Callum (@AkkadSecretary) March 1, 2025

In a country where people hide from press conscription gangs polling is challenging, no doubt. Black-mirror-esque dystopia indeed.

I thought the US suggestion was to end the war so Z's excuse for suspending elections went away. A small but important distinction from suggesting war time elections.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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No. It's not clear

NEW!! Ukrainian opposition leaders reject U.S. suggestions of wartime election

1/2

— Alex Raufoglu (@ralakbar) March 6, 2025

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American University, Foreign Press USA (brought to you by the Rockefeller Foundation/USAID). Sure.

Every once in a while he puts out something honest, but it's mostly the Ukrainian spokesperson lines.

NEW!!! Secretary Rubio in an interview with Fox calls russia's war in Ukraine "a proxy war between nuclear powers – the United States, helping Ukraine, and Russia", adding "it needs to come to an end." 👇 pic.twitter.com/jBqt23i2mf

— Alex Raufoglu (@ralakbar) March 6, 2025

Well considering this is word for word Ukrainian opposition saying they oppose mid-war elections.

I'd say that's not "fake news"

Carry on

Word for word they can't call for emergency elections. It's illegal to do so in the peoples republic of Ukraine under martial law. Heck, the Atlantic Council also told us they are opposed to it, so it must be true.

nortex97 said:

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Word for word they can't call for emergency elections. It's illegal to do so in the peoples republic of Ukraine under martial law. Heck, the Atlantic Council also told us they are opposed to it, so it must be true.

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they could end Martial Law

western propaganda will tell you that Zelensky is super popular in Ukraine

russian propaganda will tell you that Zelensky is not very popular in Ukraine


Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

LMCane said:

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nortex97 said:

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Word for word they can't call for emergency elections. It's illegal to do so in the peoples republic of Ukraine under martial law. Heck, the Atlantic Council also told us they are opposed to it, so it must be true.

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they could end Martial Law

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They would be happy to do this once Russia stops invading them.

I agree. They can do what they want and we should stay out of it. They want Marshall law I am ok with it. Just don't give them more money and weapons. Seems like a great trade.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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LMCane said:

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nortex97 said:

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Word for word they can't call for emergency elections. It's illegal to do so in the peoples republic of Ukraine under martial law. Heck, the Atlantic Council also told us they are opposed to it, so it must be true.

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they could end Martial Law

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They would be happy to do this once Russia stops invading them.

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We can't ask Russia to stop attacking until they agree to stop resisting. Don't you know anything?

We all know there's NO WAY a sitting ruler would prolong a war or a pandemic to twist a law that allows them to stay in power longer. They only have our best interests at heart and are incorruptible.

I still haven't seen a really good rationale for why we can't build some sort of relationship with Russia based on mutually beneficially economics. I feel like we'd be better able to exert some sort of control over them that way, vs militarily. And again, spare me the histrionics about Putin being a bad guy and a dictator. That doesn't stop us from dealing economically with other really ****ty countries.

AJ02 said:

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I still haven't seen a really good rationale for why we can't build some sort of relationship with Russia based on mutually beneficially economics. I feel like we'd be better able to exert some sort of control over them that way, vs militarily. And again, spare me the histrionics about Putin being a bad guy and a dictator. That doesn't stop us from dealing economically with other really ****ty countries.

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Genocide seems like a good enough reason

So you have been calling out Europe this whole time for continuing to do business with Russia. When they invaded Europe was still buying energy. Were you critical of them and telling them to stop? Biden sure as **** didn't as far as I can remember

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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AJ02 said:

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I still haven't seen a really good rationale for why we can't build some sort of relationship with Russia based on mutually beneficially economics. I feel like we'd be better able to exert some sort of control over them that way, vs militarily. And again, spare me the histrionics about Putin being a bad guy and a dictator. That doesn't stop us from dealing economically with other really ****ty countries.

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Genocide seems like a good enough reason

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We do a crap-ton of business with China and they've been accused of genocide.

backintexas2013 said:

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So you have been calling out Europe this whole time for continuing to do business with Russia. When they invaded Europe was still buying energy. Were you critical of them and telling them to stop? Biden sure as **** didn't as far as I can remember

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Being tied beyond your back and being energy dependent on Russia is ENTIRELY different from willfully seeking out PARTNERSHIP with them.

Yes - that's Europes fault for not taking stronger efforts to decouple - but we do the exact same thing in trade with China.

In the long term - hell yeah I would LOVE for Russia to become a friend to the rest of the world - abandon this victimhood BS and integrate with the rest of the world.

But while they are actively murdering civilians and playing it off like they're doing it for their glorious motherland? No chance.

So that's a no. Got it.

AJ02 said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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AJ02 said:

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I still haven't seen a really good rationale for why we can't build some sort of relationship with Russia based on mutually beneficially economics. I feel like we'd be better able to exert some sort of control over them that way, vs militarily. And again, spare me the histrionics about Putin being a bad guy and a dictator. That doesn't stop us from dealing economically with other really ****ty countries.

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Genocide seems like a good enough reason

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We do a crap-ton of business with China and they've been accused of genocide.

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But they are not actively engaged in an invasion and at war.

Our diplomatic stance with China has always been competition.

We are the largest economies in the world and one can't function without the other.

Now if they launch an invasion on Taiwan - you don't think that the sanctions would rain down on them and half that business would die?

Europe willingly made themselves energy dependent on Russia.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Europe willingly made themselves energy dependent on Russia.

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Indeed they did. Reagan was warning them about this back in the 80s.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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AJ02 said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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AJ02 said:

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I still haven't seen a really good rationale for why we can't build some sort of relationship with Russia based on mutually beneficially economics. I feel like we'd be better able to exert some sort of control over them that way, vs militarily. And again, spare me the histrionics about Putin being a bad guy and a dictator. That doesn't stop us from dealing economically with other really ****ty countries.

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Genocide seems like a good enough reason

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We do a crap-ton of business with China and they've been accused of genocide.

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But they are not actively engaged in an invasion and at war.

Our diplomatic stance with China has always been competition.

We are the largest economies in the world and one can't function without the other.

Now if they launch an invasion on Taiwan - you don't think that the sanctions would rain down on them and half that business would die?

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Uyghur Muslims get excluded in your calculation why?

Well well well it appears the European Union has FAILED to reach a deal for Ukraine, as "emergency meeting" ends with NO funding or rearmament, per NYPost

European Union leaders concluded an emergency summit without reaching a consensus on additional funding or rearmament support for Ukraine. The discussions included proposals to increase defense spending and the potential seizure of $227 billion in frozen Russian central bank reserves to fund Ukraine's reconstruction. However, these measures faced opposition from some member states, notably Hungary, leading to a lack of unanimous agreement.

Zelenskyy has found out the hard way that mother Europe may tweet out they stand with Ukraine when the bad orange man is mean to him but when it comes down to actually ponying up the cash the teat is dry. Now he's got to come crawling back to daddy to see what's left of his deal with Trump. My guess is he got word that the EU was hedging days ago and that's why he made his about face on Trump and was willing to make the deal. Trump should put his foot on his neck to teach him a lesson about biting the hand that feeds him.


https://nypost.com/2025/03/06/world-news/ukraine-summit-in-brussels-ends-with-no-consensus-after-emergency-talks-falter/

And it should be a lesson to everyone: the EU is not interested in paying for defense. Not of Ukraine and not of their own countries.

They want to continue spending huge sums on social programs, lecturing the rest of the world as they throw away democracy, and depending on America for defense. We don't need to get out of NATO, but we need to tighten the screws on the EU.

Yep. The euro's are claiming they are going to ramp up to spend $800 billion on defense, using some debt to kick start it with $150 billion on tap, but that is mostly just an illusion.

Quote:

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Most of them are hardly competitive and the cost of defense hardware is unrealistically high, as a report by the respected European think tank Kiel Institute for the World Economy says. The Von Der Leyen proposal follows exactly the Kiel proposed increase in spending needed in Europe.

A singular problem is that more tanks and guns presuppose more troops, probably between 300,000 to 500,000 boots on the ground. Such a force simply does not exist in Europe and there's almost no prospect for building one. Having warehouses full of equipment without any operators is a non-starter. Building an army requires raising and paying one.

There is zero momentum in that direction in Europe. It helps explain one of the reasons why Volodymyr Zelensky claimed Ukraine could supply the soldiers Europe needs, but in truth, Ukraine does not have the manpower, most of which is tied down in fighting the Russians and taking heavy losses in the process.
Even if peace in Ukraine is achieved, it will take a couple of generations and lots of money to recruit an army that mostly does not speak any European language.

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Paying to hire/equip/outfit and train an army is expensive business, and one that the Euro's, especially the big 3 have shown no compunction to do over the past 30 years. They really haven't even tried to develop their own capabilities, preferring to just by off the shelf US equipment when necessary (such as the P8) or to nurse along ancient systems (see: France).

U.S. satellite imagery company @Maxar has reportedly cut off Ukraine from receiving its imagery. https://t.co/06ELacyfba

— Mike Eckel (@Mike_Eckel) March 7, 2025

Aside; the little green goblin is going to Riyadh on monday to talk 'peace' apparently (and presumably beg for money). The Saudi's also have a lot of gear they've bought from us over the years, so I expect some token used donations as well.

According to Trump yesterday he got the Kingdom to pledge to spend a trillion dollars on defense over the next four years with US contractors for weapons and equipment.

Zelenskyy can rattle his cup and tell his sad story but he's finding out reality and how badly he's overplayed his hand

TRUMP: I AM STRONGLY CONSIDERING LARGE SCALE BANKING SANCTIONS, SANCTIONS, AND TARIFFS ON RUSSIA UNTIL CEASEFIRE

— *Walter Bloomberg (@DeItaone) March 7, 2025

You can argue with Trump's approach, but you can't argue with his dedication to ending this war. He sure is trying.

Jamie Dimon spoke to all the liberal Wall Street money changers a week ago explaining to them that they need to quit being emotional about their feelings toward Trump's methodology and concentrate on the results. He pointed towards his track record in his first term. Economy was on fire and money was flowing. He explained he's known Trump for decades and he does things based on his own instincts and it's served him well. Said you cannot argue his results. He brash and at time uncouth but he delivers.

I'm sure this is some goblin strategy.

Maybe without him it’ll actually move things forward.

Although I feel anything they agree to now will just be changed by him once this delegation gets back to Ukraine. https://t.co/SlPxBMDUDM

— CA ET Nerd (@earlyvotedata) March 8, 2025

Is this the one he was going to Riyadh to talk about peace options, supposedly? I thought that was monday.

Not a good update.

Really winning friends in DC.

Place sanctions on the top 10 Ukrainian oligarchs, especially the ones with mansions in Monaco, and this will stop immediately.

That is the key to the puzzle. https://t.co/hgw8tQsEs6

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 9, 2025

Not another micro-penny

— Mike Lee (@BasedMikeLee) March 9, 2025

Huge blue-yellow flag in front of the WH.

Our tax dollars funded a war.

When our tax dollars stopped funding a war… our tax dollars started funding protests FOR a war.

Unreal.

— Matt Van Swol (@matt_vanswol) March 8, 2025

As the Kursk pocket has been enveloped:

🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦 Ukrainian channel RezidentUA writes:

Our source in the General Staff reports that Ukrainian forces in the Kursk region are being destroyed as some of their best units attempt to retreat without orders—only to end up in kill zones. Once again, Syrsky failed to issue a…

— Geopoliticalfocus (@Geopoliticaleco) March 8, 2025

People who unabashedly support Ukraine have a poor understanding of history, both long term and short term.

Been thoroughly discussed before, but the region is prone to invasion by other forces which repeatedly encourages folks, both internal and external, to try and control the resources that are also abundant.

Now, combine that with an almost Gypsy like culture that sells itself to the highest bidder… or a more Russian-esque who desires authoritarian rule and you get centuries in f ongoing conflict:

Let the Ukes sort their fate out for themselves. Keep our treasure and our soldiers here.

America first, America great, America always. We live by that and we will endure.

flown-the-coop said:

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People who unabashedly support Ukraine have a poor understanding of history, both long term and short term.

Been thoroughly discussed before, but the region is prone to invasion by other forces which repeatedly encourages folks, both internal and external, to try and control the resources that are also abundant.

Now, combine that with an almost Gypsy like culture that sells itself to the highest bidder… or a more Russian-esque who desires authoritarian rule and you get centuries in f ongoing conflict:

Let the Ukes sort their fate out for themselves. Keep our treasure and our soldiers here.

America first, America great, America always. We live by that and we will endure.

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Well said. Especially the bolded portion which has always been true. But it is worth pointing out there was considerable psyop by Ukraine funded by USAID to convince the yokels this was a battle of good vs evil. My facebook feed was full of folks who fell for it. Ukraine flag PFP types. It is nice to see most waking up to the reality.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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People who unabashedly support Ukraine have a poor understanding of history, both long term and short term.

Been thoroughly discussed before, but the region is prone to invasion by other forces which repeatedly encourages folks, both internal and external, to try and control the resources that are also abundant.

Now, combine that with an almost Gypsy like culture that sells itself to the highest bidder… or a more Russian-esque who desires authoritarian rule and you get centuries in f ongoing conflict:

Let the Ukes sort their fate out for themselves. Keep our treasure and our soldiers here.

America first, America great, America always. We live by that and we will endure.

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Well said. Especially the bolded portion which has always been true. But it is worth pointing out there was considerable psyop by Ukraine funded by USAID to convince the yokels this was a battle of good vs evil. My facebook feed was full of folks who fell for it. Ukraine flag PFP types. It is nice to see most waking up to the reality.

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So russia did not invade Georgia or Ukraine twice?

Massacre at Bucha didn't happen?

How about Holodomor or the Gulags, was that all propaganda as well?

Putin freely elected president all these years and all the falls from high windows and poisonings all accidents as well.

JFABNRGR said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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People who unabashedly support Ukraine have a poor understanding of history, both long term and short term.

Been thoroughly discussed before, but the region is prone to invasion by other forces which repeatedly encourages folks, both internal and external, to try and control the resources that are also abundant.

Now, combine that with an almost Gypsy like culture that sells itself to the highest bidder… or a more Russian-esque who desires authoritarian rule and you get centuries in f ongoing conflict:

Let the Ukes sort their fate out for themselves. Keep our treasure and our soldiers here.

America first, America great, America always. We live by that and we will endure.

---

Well said. Especially the bolded portion which has always been true. But it is worth pointing out there was considerable psyop by Ukraine funded by USAID to convince the yokels this was a battle of good vs evil. My facebook feed was full of folks who fell for it. Ukraine flag PFP types. It is nice to see most waking up to the reality.

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So russia did not invade Georgia or Ukraine twice?

Massacre at Bucha didn't happen?

How about Holodomor or the Gulags, was that all propaganda as well?

Putin freely elected president all these years and all the falls from high windows and poisonings all accidents as well.

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II think the point he was trying to make was that this conflict is a long running family feud. This is third- and fourth- cousins fighting over great-grandpa's farm, and it is a family we really have no ties to other than the fact that they live next to our second cousins and we don't want the conflict messing up our cousin's yard We may reach peace, but we will never reach resolution because the long-standing feud will always be based on litigating the past.

JFABNRGR said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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People who unabashedly support Ukraine have a poor understanding of history, both long term and short term.

Been thoroughly discussed before, but the region is prone to invasion by other forces which repeatedly encourages folks, both internal and external, to try and control the resources that are also abundant.

Now, combine that with an almost Gypsy like culture that sells itself to the highest bidder… or a more Russian-esque who desires authoritarian rule and you get centuries in f ongoing conflict:

Let the Ukes sort their fate out for themselves. Keep our treasure and our soldiers here.

America first, America great, America always. We live by that and we will endure.

---

Well said. Especially the bolded portion which has always been true. But it is worth pointing out there was considerable psyop by Ukraine funded by USAID to convince the yokels this was a battle of good vs evil. My facebook feed was full of folks who fell for it. Ukraine flag PFP types. It is nice to see most waking up to the reality.

---

So russia did not invade Georgia or Ukraine twice?

Massacre at Bucha didn't happen?

How about Holodomor or the Gulags, was that all propaganda as well?

Putin freely elected president all these years and all the falls from high windows and poisonings all accidents as well.

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My point was that 90% of the lemmings waving Ukrainian flags online had no idea or cared about any of that 5 years ago- because the TV hadn't told them to care. I appreciate your input, but I've been consistent in my DGAF about either side stance from the get go. America first. I like to see more and more folks putting America First online, on TA and elsewhere.