Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy

175,433 Views | 1748 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by ts5641
LMCane
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Zobel said:

I don't know if we have. "Enough" means Russia stops their program of expansion that they've been on for the past few decades.

The US is not going to be materially economically impacted by continued materiel support to Ukraine. Those dollars are spent domestically anyway.
past "few decades"?!?!

Imperial Russia was at the borders of France in 1815!

have you looked at a map of the Soviet Union in 1940?!

as I asked before- EXACTLY when is it enough attrition (which is a fairly amoral strategy in the first place)

so your OWN strategy- you admitted you don't know when it is enough time.

usually when people don't know how their strategy should end - it's not a good strategy.
Rossticus
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So a Ukraine with a military capable of defending itself is the problem, the reason that the war occurred… according to Russia. Peace can only be achieved by total Russian influence. That's a hell of a take, to be sure.
Flavius Agximus
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If Ukraine had been or now becomes another Belarus or Kazakhstan with a Moscow friendly government, no one would know, care or notice. Except idiots in the state department and perma-government corruptocrats who decided it was useful to tweak Russia and put Nato on their doorstep, or threaten to, and then got addicted to laundered money.
Burdizzo
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PA24 said:

nortex97 said:

Too late now, hoss.

Put on a 'costume' suit and grovel on camera, while apologizing for lying about what you and Rubio said and as well your role in the impeachment of 45. Maybe then Trump/Vance will think about it.
Love means never having to say you're sorry.

Oldie

Zobel
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lol sorry I didn't give you a calendar date. What a stupid arbitrary requirement.
Yukon Cornelius
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Ukraine was killing its own citizens not very long ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html

Reality is everyone wants a peace deal except those profiteering.
FireAg
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Yukon Cornelius said:

Ukraine was killing its own citizens not very long ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html

Reality is everyone wants a peace deal except those profiteering.


Spot on…
AgGrad99
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Who?mikejones! said:

AgGrad99 said:

Marvin_Zindler said:


His statement is funny to me.

He's finally backpedaled on everything that happened, and admitted he was an idiot, and will now agree to the trade deal that he should have a month ago.

But he wants peace to be phased in? Stage 1, no missiles...blah blah blah.

Are you kidding me? Tell me you want to keep the war going, without saying you want to keep the war going.

"let's just have a few peaceful corners of the war at first...let's not get to peace too fast'


I dunno. The best way forward might be a step down of hostilities approach.
Maybe (likely). But that's discussed behind closed doors. To highlight that singular point in his statement is a bit telling, given everything else he's said/done.
nortex97
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Clavell said:

You should ask what wars he prevented. Of course that can never be proven.

"But the root dilemma of our time is that if the quest for peace turns into the sole objective of policy, the fear of war becomes a weapon in the hands of the most ruthless; it produces moral disarmament. How to strive for both peace and justice, for an end of war that does not lead to tyranny, for a commitment to justice that does not produce cataclysmto find this balance is the perpetual task of the statesman in the nuclear age." Kissinger
Perhaps you should consider what he said about the Ukraine war and demonization of Putin.
Logos Stick
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J. Walter Weatherman
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Yukon Cornelius said:

Ukraine was killing its own citizens not very long ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html

Reality is everyone wants a peace deal except those profiteering.



Glad we agree that bombing civilians is wrong. How many Ukrainian citizens has Russia killed?

And no, that's not reality because the country currently invading and bombing Ukraine clearly does not want peace (as shown by the fact they are currently invading and bombing Ukraine).
Clavell
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Not surprised by his response, especially
"The test of policy is how it ends, not how it begins."

I repeat what I said before. This "peace" should have been negotiated much earlier. My point and Kissinger's was you don't play your chips without getting something for them. Unilateral offerings has never worked with the Communist countries. Maybe he got something from Putin, but we haven't seen it yet.
docb
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Clavell said:

Not surprised by his response, especially
"The test of policy is how it ends, not how it begins."

I repeat what I said before. This "peace" should have been negotiated much earlier. My point and Kissinger's was you don't play your chips without getting something for them. Unilateral offerings has never worked with the Communist countries. Maybe he got something from Putin, but we haven't seen it yet.
I think you are correct. I think part of what Putin is getting is he is trying to save face. Russia seems to have run out of steam in taking Ukraine both from a material standpoint and an economic standpoint. This in essence gives him an off ramp at this point. He sure spent a ton of money and endured a significant loss of life to obtain an area maybe the size of Delaware. Great job Vlad.
UntoldSpirit
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A lot of truth in this parody:

Science Denier
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nortex97 said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

AgGrad99 said:

Marvin_Zindler said:


His statement is funny to me.

He's finally backpedaled on everything that happened, and admitted he was an idiot, and will now agree to the trade deal that he should have a month ago.

But he wants peace to be phased in? Stage 1, no missiles...blah blah blah.

Are you kidding me? Tell me you want to keep the war going, without saying you want to keep the war going.

"let's just have a few peaceful corners of the war at first...let's not get to peace too fast'
How would you prefer he approach proposing a peace plan? (Reminder that Russia has shown zero interest in peace)
What? But the "Russian Government" aka RT just said this is a great first step toward peace by Trump. And, to boot, ready to broker Iran nuke talks.


IMHO one must deliberately not listen to the Russians to think they don't want to negotiate an end to this.
No. It's not just not listen. They don't want Trump to fix what the left has totally FUBAR'd
Science Denier
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Tecolote said:

Science Denier said:

Quote:

It doesn't matter if Russia eventually wins if the the goal is to make that a Pyrhhic victory. In fact, the longer that drags out - the more losses to manpower they cannot replace - the better.
What about those Ukrainians getting killed? Russia has alot more manpower. That country could be wiped out if this thing goes much longer. They are already just grabbing people in the streets.
And the Russians are using North Koreans!!

p.s. the Russians grab people off the street also.
They don't do it out of sheer panic. They have "people to burn". They just CHOOSE to use other alternatives.
Zobel
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From Grok:

Based on the available information, estimating how long Russia can continue the war in Ukraine before facing severe manpower problems involves considering several factors: casualty rates, recruitment efforts, and the sustainability of their current military strategy. While precise predictions are challenging due to the fluid nature of the conflict and limited official data, we can draw insights from expert analyses and reported trends as of March 4, 2025.

Russia has sustained significant casualties since the invasion began in February 2022. Estimates vary, but Ukraine claims Russia has suffered over 665,000 casualties (killed or wounded) by late 2024, while the British government estimated around 648,000 by October 2024. Independent analyses, such as those from the BBC and Mediazona, have confirmed over 70,000 Russian deaths by mid-2024, with total casualties (including wounded) likely several times higher. If we assume a conservative monthly loss rate of 20,000-30,000 personnel (based on reports of 1,000+ daily casualties in late 2024), Russia could lose an additional 240,000-360,000 soldiers in 2025 alone.

Russia's active military personnel numbered approximately 1.32 million in 2024, with reserves of about 2 million, though not all are combat-ready. Adding contract soldiers, volunteers, and foreign recruits (e.g., from North Korea), Russia has been fielding roughly 600,000 troops in Ukraine at any given time. The Kremlin has avoided full mobilization since September 2022, relying instead on volunteers incentivized by increased payments (e.g., bonuses raised from $2,121 to $4,350) and forcibly recruited prisoners. Reports suggest Russia recruits about 25,000-30,000 new soldiers monthly, roughly matching current loss rates in 2024. However, this balance is fragile - recruitment pools like prisoners (over 500,000 convicts annually) and volunteers are finite, and quality is declining as experienced soldiers are replaced by minimally trained recruits.
Analysts suggest Russia's manpower sustainability hinges on both quantity and quality. The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) noted in February 2025 that Russia's force generation struggles to keep pace with losses, projecting constraints within "months" if losses remain high. Other projections vary: Ukraine's intelligence chief, Kyrylo Budanov, suggested in 2023 that Russia's human resources could last beyond 2026, but in 2025, he indicated Russia might need a pause by 2026 due to financial and manpower strain. Posts on X and some analysts estimate Russia can sustain the war for 1224 months from early 2025 (i.e., until mid-2026 or early 2027) before hitting a critical breaking point, assuming no major shift like full mobilization.

Full mobilization could add 350,000-500,000 troops, per plans to reach 1.5 million total personnel, but the Kremlin hesitates due to political risks - public dissent spiked after the 2022 partial mobilization. Without it, Russia's reliance on dwindling Soviet-era equipment and a shrinking pool of willing recruits suggests a tipping point. If losses continue at 20,000-30,000 monthly and recruitment doesn't exceed this, Russia's effective combat force could drop below sustainable levels (e.g., 300,000-400,000 in Ukraine) within 12-18 months from now - around mid-2026 to early 2027. This aligns with assessments that Russia's military peaks in late 2024 or 2025, with increasing strain thereafter.

In summary, Russia can likely continue the war until mid-2026 (approximately 15-18 months from March 2025) before manpower problems become crippling, assuming current loss rates and no full mobilization. If losses escalate or recruitment falters, this timeline could shorten to late 2025 or early 2026. Conversely, a major mobilization or increased foreign support (e.g., from North Korea) could extend it slightly beyond 2026, though at diminishing effectiveness due to training and morale issues. These estimates remain uncertain, as they depend on battlefield dynamics, political decisions, and external aid to both sides.
BluHorseShu
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deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.
Woods Ag
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BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


On Pearl Harbor: we had the capability to tell our allies to **** off bc we were big and strong enough to do so. Ukraine is the little pipsqueek with a mouth survives bc they have a big bully backing them, so they do what we say or we don't back them. It's that easy.

I'm not getting involved with the rest of this bc neither side will convince anyone of anything as all the info has been discussed 100x. The only thing I'll add is why the **** do I care if Reagan is rolling over in his grave? Lol… great. Roll over, don't roll over.. I don't care and even if I did what do you know of what Reagan would think of Russia today? This is not the Soviet Union of the 80s.
ReturnOfTheAg
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BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


THANK YOU

Ukraine was attacked and has fought for 3 years to keep their country EXISTING.

And Zelensky is being chastised for not getting down on his knees and kissing the proverbial ring on the finger when we're demanding him to lay down his arms while Russia gets off virtually scott free?

I'd be pissed off too - he carries the deaths of his countrymen on his heart and is being treated like a Warhawk when he wants a firm, just peace.

Tom Fox
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ReturnOfTheAg said:

BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


THANK YOU

Ukraine was attacked and has fought for 3 years to keep their country EXISTING.

And Zelensky is being chastised for not getting down on his knees and kissing the proverbial ring on the finger when we're demanding him to lay down his arms while Russia gets off virtually scott free?

I'd be pissed off too - he carries the deaths of his countrymen on his heart and is being treated like a Warhawk when he wants a firm, just peace.




They cannot win on their own and we are not providing any more blood or treasure to his cause. Fight on Ukraine!
backintexas2013
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one safe place said:

CountryBoyAg said:

Zelensky knows Trump isn't going to help, so why kiss his ass when you could stand up to him for the folks back home?
I am sure that is just the sort of thing to get the folks back home to empty their accounts to hand over to Zelensky and pick up a rifle and sprint to the front lines.


It's a typical liberal mentality. They care because they are spending other people's money. When it's their money hell to the no they aren't doing it. See helping the poor as an example. They see themselves as caring for spending our money.
backintexas2013
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Then let's stay out of it and let him work the deal he wants. He can't demand the deal he wants and then demand we keep sending him equipments and money.
deddog
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BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.
No one is in love with Putin.
That is an intellectually lazy and stupid argument.
deddog
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backintexas2013 said:

Then let's stay out of it and let him work the deal he wants. He can't demand the deal he wants and then demand we keep sending him equipments and money.
Sanctimonious jackasses virtue signaling at the cost of US taxpayers impresses no one, except dimwit democrats on facebook.
ReturnOfTheAg
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Woods Ag said:

BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


On Pearl Harbor: we had the capability to tell our allies to **** off bc we were big and strong enough to do so. Ukraine is the little pipsqueek with a mouth survives bc they have a big bully backing them, so they do what we say or we don't back them. It's that easy.

I'm not getting involved with the rest of this bc neither side will convince anyone of anything as all the info has been discussed 100x. The only thing I'll add is why the **** do I care if Reagan is rolling over in his grave? Lol… great. Roll over, don't roll over.. I don't care and even if I did what do you know of what Reagan would think of Russia today? This is not the Soviet Union of the 80s.


You're right

They aren't the Soviet Union of the 1980s

But if we sit back and watch - let alone ENABLE them with far too lenient "deals" they will become that threat.
deddog
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ReturnOfTheAg said:

Woods Ag said:

BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


On Pearl Harbor: we had the capability to tell our allies to **** off bc we were big and strong enough to do so. Ukraine is the little pipsqueek with a mouth survives bc they have a big bully backing them, so they do what we say or we don't back them. It's that easy.

I'm not getting involved with the rest of this bc neither side will convince anyone of anything as all the info has been discussed 100x. The only thing I'll add is why the **** do I care if Reagan is rolling over in his grave? Lol… great. Roll over, don't roll over.. I don't care and even if I did what do you know of what Reagan would think of Russia today? This is not the Soviet Union of the 80s.


You're right

They aren't the Soviet Union of the 1980s

But if we sit back and watch - let alone ENABLE them with far too lenient "deals" they will become that threat.

And your solution is? War in perpetuity? With the US paying for it?
What do you constitute as lenient?
Funky Winkerbean
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deddog
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ReturnOfTheAg said:

BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


THANK YOU

Ukraine was attacked and has fought for 3 years to keep their country EXISTING.

And Zelensky is being chastised for not getting down on his knees and kissing the proverbial ring on the finger when we're demanding him to lay down his arms while Russia gets off virtually scott free?

I'd be pissed off too - he carries the deaths of his countrymen on his heart and is being treated like a Warhawk when he wants a firm, just peace.


Great.
Then DONT KISS the ring.
Go instead to all those people who are "standing with Ukraine" and all the Europeans countries "standing firmly with Ukraine".

Being pissed is fine. Insulting the US VP and taking him on like it's a debate of equals is stupid.
Then again, maybe he was used to dealing with democrat eunuchs.
backintexas2013
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Just curious when the war started did you call out Europe for continuing to buy energy from Russia? How about now?
Woods Ag
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deddog said:

ReturnOfTheAg said:

BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


THANK YOU

Ukraine was attacked and has fought for 3 years to keep their country EXISTING.

And Zelensky is being chastised for not getting down on his knees and kissing the proverbial ring on the finger when we're demanding him to lay down his arms while Russia gets off virtually scott free?

I'd be pissed off too - he carries the deaths of his countrymen on his heart and is being treated like a Warhawk when he wants a firm, just peace.


Great.
Then DONT KISS the ring.
Go instead to all those people who are "standing with Ukraine" and all the Europeans countries standing firmly with Ukraine.

Being pissed is fine. Insulting the US VP and taking him on like it's a debate of equals is stupid.
Then again, maybe he was used to dealing with democrat eunuchs.



Exactly!!

If you want to stand with Ukraine so badly, pony up and write them a check! Or better yet, book a flight and go join! Or do you not stand with them that much?

Stop telling the rest of us we need to support them too!
Psycho Bunny
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THIS ^^^^

If people want to support Ukraine so badly, like you said, write a check, or grab a rifle and stand on the line.

Time for people to man up or stop trying to force "our" country into a war.
All the gods, all the heavens, all the hells are within you. Joseph Campbell

My paycheck goes to my wife's shopping addiction, red bull and nicotine.
deddog
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Psycho Bunny said:

THIS ^^^^

If people want to support Ukraine so badly, like you said, write a check, or grab a rifle and stand on the line.

Time for people to man up or stop trying to force "our" country into a war.

I do respect those that did this. A lot of folks walked the talk. You can fund these warriors directly too.
So there's no excuse to not support Ukraine using your own pocketbook.

Quit reaching into everybody else's pocket and being sanctimonious about it
Psycho Bunny
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Nice choice of word.

I need to remember the word sanctimonious
All the gods, all the heavens, all the hells are within you. Joseph Campbell

My paycheck goes to my wife's shopping addiction, red bull and nicotine.
Who?mikejones!
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ReturnOfTheAg said:

BluHorseShu said:

deddog said:

BluHorseShu said:

strbrst777 said:

Z is a rude, ungrateful, disgusting jerk. The meeting was on TV.
Its unfortunate Z let it escalate....but I also think there is some blame on Trump and Vance with how they've played it. Z has everything to lose so he should have thought about that.
Trump and Vance are known quantities. They also hold the purse strings.
Zelensky has no cards to play.
It was stupid.
He doesn't....But if after Pearl Harbor all of our allies just told us to shut up and take it while they work out a peace agreement I'm pretty sure we'd have told them to get bent and kept fighting. Zelensky has baggage, but by no means is the war Ukraines fault. No remotely. This Putin love feast is awful. Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


THANK YOU

Ukraine was attacked and has fought for 3 years to keep their country EXISTING.

And Zelensky is being chastised for not getting down on his knees and kissing the proverbial ring on the finger when we're demanding him to lay down his arms while Russia gets off virtually scott free?

I'd be pissed off too - he carries the deaths of his countrymen on his heart and is being treated like a Warhawk when he wants a firm, just peace.




I'm not sure i agree with your conclusion on Zelensky's desires. Or, maybe he desires that, but he cannot have it how he wants.

There's clearly no will to do what is necessary to force a Russian capitulation which in my estimation is western boots on the ground.

We could give ukriane every weapon, save nukes, in our arsenal and it probably wouldn't move the needle all that much because ukriane doesn't have the manpower to employ them.

Without western troops, ukriane has proven they can at best create a slowly receding stalemate. And Russia is more than willing to simply send men and machine into the meat grinder for slow but steady gains. I thought Russia would have petered out long ago, but, they fight on.

Option A- we fund what's essentially an endless war or do something unwise like send even more arms to eventually end up destroyed in exchange for little gain.

Option b- we send troops to adequately push back the Russians

Option c- we force peace, which means some tough deals for ukriane to accept. This appears to be Trump's desire

Yes, Russia will probably end up absorbing their ill gotten gains, because there is little to suggest there is both the way and the will to do whats necessary to get them back. I certainly do not see America sending troops. Maybe the euros could get there, but by all reports, Europe's armies are not up to the task.

In summary-

1. trump wants peace and he wants america to not fund this war anymore.
2. Trump's correct opinion, imo, is that ukriane doesn't hold the cards to make strong demands
3. Russia is so far unwilling to give up anything they have taken.
4. Without taking drastic measures, the west has no way to force Russia to give up anything they hold.

Zelensky realistic options are very narrow
 
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