I don't think what you are saying jives with what Rian Johnson showed us in TLJ either. Whether or not you are related to sombody, you are still born with the ability to use the force. Rey had it, the kid with the broom had it.
*** STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER *** (Spoiler Thread)
169,681 Views |
1435 Replies |
Last: 4 yr ago by Brian Earl Spilner
Lucas has said that anyone can use the force (maybe to varying degrees, but wield it in some fashion).redline248 said:
I think you are off the mark on this. The ability to use the force is mostly decided at random.
TLDR:Bruce Almighty said:
Can I get a cliff notes version of the 150+ replies on this thread since this morning?
Some of us don't like The Last Jedi, some of us don't like the Rise of Skywalker. Some of us like the "Rey isn't from a famous family" aspect of The Last Jedi and the Rise of Skywalker trashing that idea is part of why we didn't like it. Others didn't really care about that part of the Last Jedi, so they don't see what the big deal is. Some people liked that Rise of Skywalker craps on the Last Jedi, others thought it was weird and/or lazy.
And also a few people have super weird reasons that they hated the Last Jedi.
so for arguments sake, assuming this all takes place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, if for arguments sake the story continues into present day, and we assume that the force ability is still present in anyone who is "sensitive", its like ending the movie with a shot of someone taking a **** in a stall with no toilet paper, but the end shot of the movie shows the roll in the next stall over start to roll....bobinator said:
Because it's fine? How is that a complaint that even registers?
either way, I think we are all ready for some movies that dont feature Skywalkers or Palpatines
TCTTS said:
Says who?
Says common sense? The thousands and thousands of jedi and sith that were found to be force sensitive with no one else in their family also being force sensitive?
bobinator said:TLDR:Bruce Almighty said:
Can I get a cliff notes version of the 150+ replies on this thread since this morning?
Some of us don't like The Last Jedi, some of us don't like the Rise of Skywalker. Some of us like the "Rey isn't from a famous family" aspect of The Last Jedi and the Rise of Skywalker trashing that idea is part of why we didn't like it. Others didn't really care about that part of the Last Jedi, so they don't see what the big deal is. Some people liked that Rise of Skywalker craps on the Last Jedi, others thought it was weird and/or lazy. Some people liked that The last Jedi subverted what The Force Awakens set up, others thought it was bad or misguided.
And also a few people have super weird reasons that they hated the Last Jedi.
TCTTS said:Dekker_Lentz said:
It mattered to Anakin and Luke's story.
It doesn't matter to any other Jedi's story ever. You seem to be ignoring that the Jedi don't have children, yet their ranks are plentiful in the prequels.
And you're ignoring the fact that Jedi aren't the only people in the galaxy who have high Midi-Chlorian counts or are sensitive to the Force.
Sure, Jedi can't have children. But that doesn't mean that Force sensitively can't still be passed down from generation to generation by those who aren't Jedi.
I am not disagreeing that force ability can't be passed down by blood. But it has never been the only and having the stable boy exist isn't some revolutionary idea, it was there in the lore forever.
Look, Midi-Chlorians are pretty stupid. We agree on that. And just like when Highlander tried to explain where immortals come from, when you try to explain where Jedi come from it becomes pretty stupid pretty quick.
My biggest point is that in the old EU they basically made every character a force user that became important.
Honestly, I think everyone agrees the force can pass through blood and random people can be born with the Force. After all it binds us all and surrounds all living things and all that jazz.
M.C. Swag said:Lucas has said that anyone can use the force (maybe to varying degrees, but wield it in some fashion).redline248 said:
I think you are off the mark on this. The ability to use the force is mostly decided at random.
1. Where did he say this?
2. He said a lot of stuff over the years
3. What evidence is there of non jedi characters ever using it to even a tiny degree?
How do you know that no one else in their families were Force sensitive? Why do you and others keep making this baseless assumption?
I think this is why so many critics didn't like JJ taking away Rey's "coming from no one" that RJ set up. It's based on a political idealism that only one side is fighting while the other side just wants a good story.
Just because the ability to be a Jedi and have force abilities may be something that no one can control and falls largely under a genetic cause doesn't mean that Classism in the real world is a valid thing.
Not every good movie has to have a egalitarian social message.
Just because the ability to be a Jedi and have force abilities may be something that no one can control and falls largely under a genetic cause doesn't mean that Classism in the real world is a valid thing.
Not every good movie has to have a egalitarian social message.
7nine
I mean yeah... that would technically be the same.
But you could also look at that ending as an orphan boy who works the stables on Canto Bight who was brave enough to help our heroes escape no matter what was going to happen to him has the force. Maybe he doesn't even really know what the force is yet, but the close of the movie shows that, like many others, he now believes there is good in the universe and maybe that kid is going to eventually become a Jedi someday.
It's not like that kid only appeared in the last scene.
Of just all the things to complain about this seems like a really odd one.
But you could also look at that ending as an orphan boy who works the stables on Canto Bight who was brave enough to help our heroes escape no matter what was going to happen to him has the force. Maybe he doesn't even really know what the force is yet, but the close of the movie shows that, like many others, he now believes there is good in the universe and maybe that kid is going to eventually become a Jedi someday.
It's not like that kid only appeared in the last scene.
Of just all the things to complain about this seems like a really odd one.
If I were involved in this discussion, I'm pretty sure that at least 5 people would be telling me, "it's just a movie... Jeeze.."
Good addition, I think that pretty well sums it up.
I recommend that people read the last page or so with angry nerd voice.
Chirrut? Finn?redline248 said:M.C. Swag said:Lucas has said that anyone can use the force (maybe to varying degrees, but wield it in some fashion).redline248 said:
I think you are off the mark on this. The ability to use the force is mostly decided at random.
1. Where did he say this?
2. He said a lot of stuff over the years
3. What evidence is there of non jedi characters ever using it to even a tiny degree?
TCTTS said:
How do you know that no one else in their families were Force sensitive? Why do you and others keep making this baseless assumption?
I asked you this already and I guess you missed it.
Do you think Obi-Wan or Mace or Dooku had force sensitive parents? Or even 1 parent? If so, why didn't the Jedi find them and train them as babies? I know no one else in their family was force sensitive because the Jedi took them and not anyone else from the family.
It's not baseless, it's logic
They've become the Bushes and Clintons of a galaxy far far away. Agreed.PatAg said:
either way, I think we are all ready for some movies that dont feature Skywalkers or Palpatines
M.C. Swag said:Chirrut? Finn?redline248 said:M.C. Swag said:Lucas has said that anyone can use the force (maybe to varying degrees, but wield it in some fashion).redline248 said:
I think you are off the mark on this. The ability to use the force is mostly decided at random.
1. Where did he say this?
2. He said a lot of stuff over the years
3. What evidence is there of non jedi characters ever using it to even a tiny degree?
Finn, lol. Chirrut is like 1 in a million. We aren't even sure if he was using the force or not
You're making the Jedi out to be this massive, well-oiled, computer-like entity that somehow has the ability to ID every last person in the galaxy who's Force sensitive. That's an incredibly massive leap to start your argument from. When, in reality, yes, I assume that, say, Obi-Wan had a Force sensitive parent or two, but the Jedi simply didn't ID either of his parents when his parents were kids for myriad reasons. Maybe the Jedi can only make it to certain planets every decade or so, or had maybe never made it to Obi-Wan's brith planet at all until he happened to be a child and the Jedi just happened to be in that part of the galaxy.
I'm curious to understand what you think the Jedi as an organization is, exactly, and why, in your mind, they have the apparent ability to constantly sweep every last square foot of the galaxy at all times, IDing future members.
I'm curious to understand what you think the Jedi as an organization is, exactly, and why, in your mind, they have the apparent ability to constantly sweep every last square foot of the galaxy at all times, IDing future members.
Qui-Gon flat tells Shmi that if Anakin had been born in the republic then the Jedi would have found him. No question, it would have happened. Therefore, the implication is that the existing Jedi all (or majority) came from Republic worlds, too.
I always assumed they missed a large % of force sensitives out there. They would either need the parents to contact them, happen to be on the planet when they show they are sensitive, or maybe they had some way of scanning local news headlines and knew to look for certain headlines? (only kind of joking on the last one)TCTTS said:
You're making the Jedi out to be this massive, well-oiled, computer-like entity that somehow has the ability to ID every last person in the galaxy who's Force sensitive. That's an incredibly massive leap to start your argument from. When, in reality, yes, I assume that, say, Obi-Wan had a Force sensitive parent or two, but the Jedi simply didn't ID either of his parents when his parents were kids for myriad reasons. Maybe the Jedi can only make it to certain planets every decade or so, or had maybe never made it to Obi-Wan's brith planet at all until he happened to be a child and the Jedi just happened to be in that part of the galaxy.
I'm curious to understand what you think the Jedi as an organization is, exactly, and why, in your mind, they have the apparent ability to constantly sweep every last square foot of the decade at all times, IDing future members.
Do I think it's possible they didn't catch them all? Yes. The sith passed on their teachings for 1000 years without the Jedi knowing.
My point is that the ones the Jedi did find weren't because they knew a family of force users had a baby
My point is that the ones the Jedi did find weren't because they knew a family of force users had a baby
The best movie since the trilogy (Rogue One) didn't have any jedi in it at all. And the one guy who was pseudo-jedi-esq in that movie was the lamest character.Urban Ag said:They've become the Bushes and Clintons of a galaxy far far away. Agreed.PatAg said:
either way, I think we are all ready for some movies that dont feature Skywalkers or Palpatines
The rest of the movies went the other direction and use the force like a crutch. They have made the jedi/sith so ridiculously powerful that it's going down the same path to boredom as superman.
They need to hire the writers from the Firefly show and make interesting stories. Don't depend on characters trying to out Bruce Lee each other.
and when they are used more sparingly, it makes it more badass when they DO unleash the force (Vader at the end)aTmAg said:The best movie since the trilogy (Rogue One) didn't have any jedi in it at all. And the one guy who was pseudo-jedi-esq in that movie was the lamest character.Urban Ag said:They've become the Bushes and Clintons of a galaxy far far away. Agreed.PatAg said:
either way, I think we are all ready for some movies that dont feature Skywalkers or Palpatines
The rest of the movies went the other direction and use the force like a crutch. They have made the jedi/sith so ridiculously powerful that it's going down the same path to boredom as superman.
They need to hire the writers from the Firefly show and make interesting stories. Don't depend on characters trying to out Bruce Lee each other.
Agreed 100%PatAg said:and when they are used more sparingly, it makes it more badass when they DO unleash the force (Vader at the end)aTmAg said:The best movie since the trilogy (Rogue One) didn't have any jedi in it at all. And the one guy who was pseudo-jedi-esq in that movie was the lamest character.Urban Ag said:They've become the Bushes and Clintons of a galaxy far far away. Agreed.PatAg said:
either way, I think we are all ready for some movies that dont feature Skywalkers or Palpatines
The rest of the movies went the other direction and use the force like a crutch. They have made the jedi/sith so ridiculously powerful that it's going down the same path to boredom as superman.
They need to hire the writers from the Firefly show and make interesting stories. Don't depend on characters trying to out Bruce Lee each other.
Ok? But that's in reference to ANAKIN, the strongest Force user ever. They would have found HIM if he was born in the Republic. My impression is that other, not-as-strong Force users are likely slipping through the cracks. And that still leaves likely hundreds if not thousands of non-Repbulic planets and the probably trillions of "undocumented" sentient beings that populate those planets.
Can we all just agree this trilogy would have been better off with an actual plan from the beginning? I mean, most of this inconsistency could have been avoided if they had just sat down and maybe plotted out the three movies before they filmed them.
Just a thought.
Then again, these sorts of debates wouldn't be so much fun.
Just a thought.
Then again, these sorts of debates wouldn't be so much fun.
TCTTS said:
Ok? But that's in reference to ANAKIN, the strongest Force user ever. They would have found HIM if he was born in the Republic. My impression is that other, not-as-strong Force users are likely slipping through the cracks. And that still leaves likely hundreds if not thousands of non-Repbulic planets and the probably trillions of "undocumented" sentient beings that populate those planets.
Like I said, I really don't believe the Jedi found them all. I do think they probably had a good hit rate in the republic. I firmly believe force sensitivity manifests mostly at random, and obviously can be passed on.
So here's a fun question. Did Palp's son have the ability?
NPH- said:
I'm just going to drop in and state a hot sports opinion that someone else's comments made me think about:
TLJ basically took a massive sheet on "the force" by implying that this great a mythical ability that has been used by folks for good & evil for generations is sporadically spread out to anyone who wants it so they can be a better janitor of their stable.
God for a second I almost forgot how much I hate TLJ, but now y'all have highlighted old wounds.....
Amazing, every word of what you just said is wrong
redline248 said:TCTTS said:
Ok? But that's in reference to ANAKIN, the strongest Force user ever. They would have found HIM if he was born in the Republic. My impression is that other, not-as-strong Force users are likely slipping through the cracks. And that still leaves likely hundreds if not thousands of non-Repbulic planets and the probably trillions of "undocumented" sentient beings that populate those planets.
Like I said, I really don't believe the Jedi found them all. I do think they probably had a good hit rate in the republic. I firmly believe force sensitivity manifests mostly at random, and obviously can be passed on.
So here's a fun question. Did Palp's son have the ability?
My answer is this: Palps having a son should have never been a plot line, but if it had to be, a reason why his son wasn't the Sith heir should have at least been given. That was such a MASSIVE revelation to just brush over in five seconds.
TCTTS said:redline248 said:TCTTS said:
Ok? But that's in reference to ANAKIN, the strongest Force user ever. They would have found HIM if he was born in the Republic. My impression is that other, not-as-strong Force users are likely slipping through the cracks. And that still leaves likely hundreds if not thousands of non-Repbulic planets and the probably trillions of "undocumented" sentient beings that populate those planets.
Like I said, I really don't believe the Jedi found them all. I do think they probably had a good hit rate in the republic. I firmly believe force sensitivity manifests mostly at random, and obviously can be passed on.
So here's a fun question. Did Palp's son have the ability?
My answer is this: Palps having a son should have never been a plot line, but if it had to be, a reason why his son wasn't the Sith heir should have at least been given. That was such a MASSIVE revelation to just brush over in five seconds.
No sh_t! We can agree completely on that.
redline248 said:TCTTS said:redline248 said:TCTTS said:
Ok? But that's in reference to ANAKIN, the strongest Force user ever. They would have found HIM if he was born in the Republic. My impression is that other, not-as-strong Force users are likely slipping through the cracks. And that still leaves likely hundreds if not thousands of non-Repbulic planets and the probably trillions of "undocumented" sentient beings that populate those planets.
Like I said, I really don't believe the Jedi found them all. I do think they probably had a good hit rate in the republic. I firmly believe force sensitivity manifests mostly at random, and obviously can be passed on.
So here's a fun question. Did Palp's son have the ability?
My answer is this: Palps having a son should have never been a plot line, but if it had to be, a reason why his son wasn't the Sith heir should have at least been given. That was such a MASSIVE revelation to just brush over in five seconds.
No sh_t! We can agree completely on that.
In before someone says that's a dumb complaint because it was explained on page 72 of The Amazing Sitherman #6.
Do you want the OG Star Wars remade where they take out all of the mystery and explain every single detail at length? Fill in the blank sometimes.
Example: Clone Wars. Huh, that's interesting. Wonder what that was about.
Example: Huh, Palp had a son. Guess if he's not evil heir mini-me than maybe he defected. Why else would he just be on Jakku like that?
Example: Clone Wars. Huh, that's interesting. Wonder what that was about.
Example: Huh, Palp had a son. Guess if he's not evil heir mini-me than maybe he defected. Why else would he just be on Jakku like that?
Yes, please jump to the most extreme conclusion that I now suddenly want to "take out all of the mystery and explain every single detail at length." Because that's clearly what I was implying.
- OR -
Resurrecting the primary villain of the OT without any explanation whatsoever, and then ALSO conveniently giving him a nameless, nearly-faceless son who is swept aside just as soon he's introduced, is genuinely bad storytelling; storytelling that, considering the magnitude and importance, deserves at least slightly more weight and explanation.
Asking for the latter is not even in the same ballpark as wanting to remove all mystery and have every single detail explained.
Come on.
- OR -
Resurrecting the primary villain of the OT without any explanation whatsoever, and then ALSO conveniently giving him a nameless, nearly-faceless son who is swept aside just as soon he's introduced, is genuinely bad storytelling; storytelling that, considering the magnitude and importance, deserves at least slightly more weight and explanation.
Asking for the latter is not even in the same ballpark as wanting to remove all mystery and have every single detail explained.
Come on.