I'm really wondering how those of you who are *****ing with all the questions about continuity and "plot holes" got to this last installment without being able to answer your own questions. Literally every question I've read to this point has been answered in past films, the extended universe, and/or TROS itself.

bobinator said:

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Rey being Palpatine's granddaughter is just ridiculous. There's so much to discuss in this movie that this might just get blown by, but it's absurd. Like just that alone almost ruined the whole movie for me.

Basically spent two movies setting up a "a hero can come from anywhere" and then went completely the other way into something that make no sense.

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only rian johnson setup the whole everyone can be special SJW bull ****

I liked 7 and 9. I think it was going to be impossible to make a trilogy that lived up to the expectations that it had. With that consideration, I think 7 and 9 were good movies.

I also understand using different directors for the different movies. I'm fine with that.

Where I get frustrated, is that it doesn't seem like they had an over-arching plan for the trilogy. There wasn't a meeting at the start laying out "here's the main bullet-points of the trilogy" that everyone was going to follow. Instead it felt like they made one movie at a time and just decided as they went.

YellowPot_97 said:

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bobinator said:

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Rey being Palpatine's granddaughter is just ridiculous. There's so much to discuss in this movie that this might just get blown by, but it's absurd. Like just that alone almost ruined the whole movie for me.

Basically spent two movies setting up a "a hero can come from anywhere" and then went completely the other way into something that make no sense.

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only rian johnson setup the whole everyone can be special SJW bull ****

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Yeah, you can thank Ruin Johnson for the mess and ultimately Kathleen the head of Lucasfilm who is more interested in hiring directors who are "woman first" than the right person for the job.

bobinator said:

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Rey being Palpatine's granddaughter is just ridiculous. There's so much to discuss in this movie that this might just get blown by, but it's absurd. Like just that alone almost ruined the whole movie for me.

Basically spent two movies setting up a "a hero can come from anywhere" and then went completely the other way into something that make no sense.

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I really disagree with this. It is no more ridiculous than about 100 other things in the Star Wars universe. The whole saga is built on ridiculous.

To me, it looks like this was JJ's plan all along. Rian Johnson definitely came in with the "a hero can come from anywhere" take, but I think Rey being Palpatine's grand-daughter makes perfect sense of you ignore that TLJ ever happened.

YellowPot_97 said:

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bobinator said:

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Rey being Palpatine's granddaughter is just ridiculous. There's so much to discuss in this movie that this might just get blown by, but it's absurd. Like just that alone almost ruined the whole movie for me.

Basically spent two movies setting up a "a hero can come from anywhere" and then went completely the other way into something that make no sense.

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only rian johnson setup the whole everyone can be special SJW bull ****

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That's not SJW. The literal American dream is defined by anyone being able to make it to the top.

I know at one point early on there was talk of going Harry Potter style and breaking this last chapter up into two movies. I really think they should have done that. They sent us lightspeed straight into words about Palpatine sending out a mysterious broadcast letting them know he is back. I mean really, WTF does that even mean. This would have been better served split up into two 2 hour movies. My guess is they didn't want to do that because it would mess with the whole episode numbering thing they have going on and confuse people.
But still, all that being said, I enjoyed it and it seems about as good a conclusion to all this as could be. Now that I think about it, how else can you end the Skywalker Saga. It had to bring Palpatine back. He has been the main force of evil through all the previous episodes. This was a good way to finish things off. I just wish they would have built it out a bit better.

exitone said:

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I know at one point early on there was talk of going Harry Potter style and breaking this last chapter up into two movies. I really think they should have done that. They sent us lightspeed straight into words about Palpatine sending out a mysterious broadcast letting them know he is back. I mean really, WTF does that even mean. This would have been better served split up into two 2 hour movies. My guess is they didn't want to do that because it would mess with the whole episode numbering thing they have going on and confuse people.
But still, all that being said, I enjoyed it and it seems about as good a conclusion to all this as could be. Now that I think about it, how else can you end the Skywalker Saga. It had to bring Palpatine back. He has been the main force of evil through all the previous episodes. This was a good way to finish things off. I just wish they would have built it out a bit better.

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Its almost like they didn't have a plan.

Quote:

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8. The new comic made Palpatine .. Anakin father via force manipulation. .. ie he got Shimi pregnant through sith wizardry.. ..

So in conclusion .. Palpatine had two trees.. Anakin and Rey Father .. Anakin had Luke and Leia .. and Rey Father had Rey .. So Rey and Ben are cousins ..

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So Palpatine was really a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother, and miscalculated the appearance of his own Kwisatz Haderach by one generation?

Farmer1906 said:

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exitone said:

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I know at one point early on there was talk of going Harry Potter style and breaking this last chapter up into two movies. I really think they should have done that. They sent us lightspeed straight into words about Palpatine sending out a mysterious broadcast letting them know he is back. I mean really, WTF does that even mean. This would have been better served split up into two 2 hour movies. My guess is they didn't want to do that because it would mess with the whole episode numbering thing they have going on and confuse people.
But still, all that being said, I enjoyed it and it seems about as good a conclusion to all this as could be. Now that I think about it, how else can you end the Skywalker Saga. It had to bring Palpatine back. He has been the main force of evil through all the previous episodes. This was a good way to finish things off. I just wish they would have built it out a bit better.

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Its almost like they didn't have a plan.

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Oh, thats absolutely right. And that has irritated me more than anything. Seriously, how do you not have a plan for a $4b entity. This could have been so much better if they had laid the groundwork in advance.

I think they have learned their lesson though now. From here on out, we should see Marvel level quality.

I think it was fun, but it just didn't work for me overall. I think when I look back at the 3 movies as a whole, it will be mostly a big disappointment. The trilogy cheapened the Anakin redemption story too much for me.

Haven't seen TROS, but this:

Quote:

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Oh and the original trilogy? Meant nothing. Emperor lived. Anakin died for nothing. No balance to the Force. The 3 main heroes are meant to die in the following ways:

Han- Return to smuggling life and killed by son
Luke-Die alone away from friends and family. Failed to recreate the Jedi
Leia-Fight the same war 30 years later; estranged from husband and abandoned by her brother; kills herself to distract her son for one second

The trilogy erased any accomplishments of the original

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...is exactly what I feared when they announced this whole thing, and why I've been out from the start.

It sounds like the only reason any of these movies happened is because... Palpatine somehow survived a billion-foot fall, and an exploding Death Star, and a few decades of time passing by?

If Palpatine dies in RotJ - which he had, until 2019 - then Snoke doesn't exist, Kylo isn't tempted, Han isn't stabbed through the heart, etc. etc. etc.

IMO this is like if, in 2039, there's another Avengers movie where (Endgame spoilers just in case) Thanos is somehow back because even though he was dusted, he wasn't truly dead, and he used his unbridled rage or something to build himself back together and gather the Infinity Stones again and Cap and Iron Man have to come back and die again to "stop him for good this time." And that's cheesy as hell and goes against the established mechanics of the universe, even in a comic book universe where the dead return all the time. It just reeks of being unnecessary.

I'm sorry if this sounds like sour grapes - especially from someone who hasn't seen the film - and I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade. But if the only goal for telling this story - aside from $$$ - was to just do it all over again but with some new characters, then artistically, that's really, really disappointing.

Needed to sleep on this to gather my thoughts.

I really enjoyed most of this movie. I thought the chemistry with Rey, Finn, and Poe was great. Everything with Leia was perfectly done, especially considering the circumstances. They made great use of her, and the way she died was perfect for the story. (Sacrificing Ben to save Rey.)

I figured Ben would be redeemed, and I think that was done well also.

The lightsaber duel between Kylo and Rey was absolutely awesome.

My excitement and anticipation was growing throughout the movie, for what I was assuming would be an epic final showdown with Palpatine and space battle.... and the whole finale was pretty much a complete letdown. The death of Palpatine was anticlimactic and he was dispatched way too easily. I mean seriously, no final fight? (And that massive lightning he was doing looked straight up ridiculous. )

And the insane amount of ships that show up out of nowhere.... I just did not buy that at all. Everything felt rushed. I felt nothing when that moment happened. It should have been an Endgame level hype moment, and...nothing.

And how could you not explain how Palpatine survived? Not even one line to explain that?

So, overall, some really great moments, but a mess of a final act.

The theater was really into the movie, which was fun. Lots of cheers and applause at the beginning and end.

It's hard to rank it after one viewing but I think right now I'd put it at #5 behind ESB, ANH, ROTS, and TFA.

On the healing front, possible that Kenobi did that to Luke on Tatooine after the Tusken Raider attack?

I Have Spoken said:

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I think it was fun, but it just didn't work for me overall. I think when I look back at the 3 movies as a whole, it will be mostly a big disappointment. The trilogy cheapened the Anakin redemption story too much for me.

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100%. One of my biggest complaints is how irrelevant they made Anakin in this movie. He's hardly mentioned, and you just hear his voice with the rest of the Jedi. This is not enough for the person who was the driving force of the whole saga.

I know people have a hard time with Palpatine being alive, but in rewatching the OT last week it occurred to me, why is Palpatine surviving his fall any more ridiculous than Luke surviving his fall in cloud city?

I don't think Anakin's sacrifice was for nothing. He still saved Luke, who then ultimately helped train Leia, they both then helped train Rey, who ultimately brought victory.

Jim01 said:

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I know people have a hard time with Palpatine being alive, but in rewatching the OT last week it occurred to me, why is Palpatine surviving his fall any more ridiculous than Luke surviving his fall in cloud city?

I don't think Anakin's sacrifice was for nothing. He still saved Luke, who then ultimately helped train Leia, they both then helped train Rey, who ultimately brought victory.

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So he is no more important than the following people who also saved Luke's life?

Han
Lando
Obi Wan
Wedge

There are 6 movies about a guy because he saved a guy that trained a girl that trained a girl that beat the big bad?

Jim01 said:

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I know people have a hard time with Palpatine being alive, but in rewatching the OT last week it occurred to me, why is Palpatine surviving his fall any more ridiculous than Luke surviving his fall in cloud city?

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Cloud City didn't explode and then fall from orbit.

Palpatine surviving is more on par with Maul to me. It is a huge WTF. I became ok with Maul because I liked where they went with the character. I'm not sure we got enough out of Palpatine to make this worth it, and it really hurt the original movies (hell, it hurt the initial 6 movies).

In a word, Yes.

I don't buy into Vader having to be the center of the entire 9 movies. The Force and the fight between light and dark is the center.

1-3 - Is about Vader and his journey
4-6 - Is about Luke and his journey
7-9 - Is about Rey and her journey.

They link together, but Vader doesn't have to be the center of everything. Vader was redeemed. He gave his life for Lukes. His sacrifice wasn't about killing the emperor. It was about him seeing his errors, turning to the light and giving his life for his sons. Luke's long life and ultimate help in winning is reward for that.

This is how I've always looked at it. All 9 movies are not about Anakin Skywalker. The prequels are. The OT is about Luke. The Sequels have been about Rey.

One other thing, I thought the training exercise with Luke and Leia was cool. It was dark and well camouflaged, but cool to see a younger version of them. And the fact that Luke actually did train her.

I really wish the Luke Force Ghost looked a bit better. He looked scraggly and out of shape. I liked the CG'ed version of Luke from the Battle of Crete. He looked pretty cool then. And I have seen recent photos of Mark Hamill and he is looking ok. They could have had him look a bit better, maybe more slimming robes and less scraggly.

Initial thoughts:

"Together"
- This is what set the tone for me early on in this one and ultimately left me satisfied with this final film. Rey/Finn/Poe teaming up. It tapped into the the Luke/Leia/Han spirit of the originals...getting them all in the Falcon together and going on an adventure, seeing some cool sights, with some funny moments thrown in. Add in more Chewie and Lando...and you have that "yeehaaa!" element that made me fall in love with Star Wars. That alone made this movie a success for a fan like me.

"I was wrong"
- I hope Hamill got a certain satisfaction with closing things out this way. He wasn't happy with TLJ and the arc for Luke, I think JJ recovered things enough to give Luke the proper sendoff.

Leia
- Wow...I mean...wow. Her arc was closed out perfectly. And the way JJ used the footage to fit into the plot of this final film was incredible. You would have thought Carrie was still around to shoot this last one. And we get more background on her training. She goes out as a Jedi master. Beautifully done.

Palpatine
- It seemed like the appropriate move. How do you top Palps? Kylo was never going to be THE evil one, and Snoke came and went so fast with very little development. And it ties all the films together.

"A thousand generations live in you now"
I loved the direction JJ took with this...and getting to hear all the Jedi masters speaking to Rey was an incredibly cool moment. I was hoping for a 'force ghost' reunion of everyone, but this was enough. It ties in the legacy of the Jedi. Obi-Won, Anakin, Yoda, Qui-Gon, Windu, etc.

Han
I got choked up here. It was great to see him one last time...and see the resolution with Ben.

Closing
Again, I got choked up here too. To see Rey go back to where it all begin for Luke, and to see force ghost Luke and Leia...then the stare off into the double sunset...perfect way to close the book.

At minimum, I put this on par with TFA just behind the originals.

As someone who was lukewarm on TFA but ultimately disappointed and who absolutely hated the unmitigated disaster that was TLJ, my expectations could not have been any lower. I was truly seeing this movie out of a sense of duty as a Star Wars fanboy. Like watching Aggie football I had to take this thing like a man and stay until the clock hit 0:00.

That said, I could not have been more pleasantly surprised by this movie. I can't quite put my finger on it but for some reason this movie just FELT like Star Wars. I went in spoiler free, and had a smile on my face for most of the movie. Agree as some earlier posts have said - ideally this movie would have been split into two parts. JJ Abrams had an insurmountable task of having to retcon most of the damage done by TLJ whilst also delivering a compelling narrative and closure as a finale. In other words, this movie had to be Episode 8 and 9 in one film. This did cause some problems with pacing and delivery and there is surely a sense of wondering what could have been had Abrams directed all 3 movies or had there at least been a pre-determined trilogy arc that Rian Johnson was forced to stick to. In the end this movie did a decent job of patching up most of what I hated about Episode 8 and stuck the landing for the finale of the Sequel Trilogy. The ending actually left me wanting to see more of Rey which I thought to be impossible because after Episode 8 she was probably the most bland and uninteresting character in Star Wars.

Not the best Star Wars movie but definitely not the worst. Would place it somewhere in the middle which is a big enough win for me since I was expecting it to be as bad as TLJ.