The brother thing threw me for a loop too. Granted I missed all of season 3 but I have never heard anything about another son.

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The brother thing threw me for a loop too.

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The one that died of a heart condition? They said that during season 1 and 2

[This message has been edited by A&M Iceman (edited 10/26/2011 10:10a).]

Jax had a younger brother that I believe had the same congenital heart defect that Abel (and maybe Gemma, hence the scar) have. He died at a young age IIRC.

Everytime Clay talks now, all I can think about is how much he reminds me of Scar from Lion King. I'm not sure why I initially made that connection. but his pure carnivorous aggression and smarminess are right on, IMO. He even talks with that low growl of a voice like Jeremy Irons.

neither clay nor Bobby are going anywhere. They've been setting Pines up for a fall for a while.

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I like that they’ve dragged the whole John Teller storyline out over the entire 4 seasons. I still think there is a ton of stuff we don’t know about JT. Did Jax mention something to Piney about a brother of his that JT bailed on when times were tough or something along those lines? I don’t remember ever hearing about a brother.

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The brother that was mentioned (by piney and not jax) died at birth...he was born w/ the same heart defect that abel was born w/...they called it the "Family Flaw"...i'm pretty sure it's in the pilot episode.

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The only thing I’m not digging is this whole if anyone is a problem just kill him. This seems to be getting slightly out of hand and the show can’t sustain this pattern. Seems like Sutter is going to have to get creative to keep the show from falling into just a shoot ‘em up action series.

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Really? Who else has been killed that didn't fit the story? The only SAMCRO member to have been killed thus far is Piney actually...the only other one that I could see you referring to was the President of the Ireland Chapter and he ratted on the club then tried to have them killed...hell, even he knew his time was up on the roof while he hugged Clay.

If you're referring to supplemental characters, that's what happens w/ OMG (outlaw motorcycle gangs)

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The only SAMCRO member to have been killed thus far is Piney actually...the only other one that I could see you referring to was the President of the Ireland Chapter ...

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Miles and half-sack.

I believe "LS" stands for Lobos Surenos (can't get my keyboard to make an accented n).

Clay has now killed Piney (his SAMCRO sponsor), JT (his best friend and president of SAMCRO, before the series), ordered the hit that resulted in Donna's death (going for Opie), and has ordered a hit on Tara (his daughter-in-law). He's also got the club "...in over their heads..." (Jax's words). Did Piney really have a contingency plan in place with Tara?

For those of us who like to try to guess what's coming next, and then marvel when we're wrong, Sutter has all kinds of ways to mess with us. Will Clay get his, and will Jax and the survivors get their club back? Or will this take a Dallas twist, and will Clay/JR continue to rule? Stay tuned!

neither of them fit the "if we have a problem w/ someone we just kill them" comment that I was addressing.

-We have a problem with JT, we run him over with an 18-wheeler and get Unser to cover it up.

-Opie's old lady won't let him be more active in the club, we kill him (oops, we accidentally kill his old lady).

-The letters could expose how we killed JT, so we kill Piney and we put a hit out on Tara.

Those scenarios seem to fit the "we have a problem with someone so we kill them off" solution.

I think that even though Gemma and Unser "know" it was Clay that killed Piney, they can't say anything w/out outting themselves for their involvment...they'll "help" Clay (not directly, but play like they don't know he killed piney and steer the club to a common enemy in the other Cartel) while trying to fix the situation from the other side of things.

I just wonder in the end who will actually kill Clay when that time comes. everyone knows it's coming...jax? Gemma? Unser? Tig? The Cartel?

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-We have a problem with JT, we run him over with an 18-wheeler and get Unser to cover it up.

-Opie's old lady won't let him be more active in the club, we kill him (oops, we accidentally kill his old lady).

-The letters could expose how we killed JT, so we kill Piney and we put a hit out on Tara.

Those scenarios seem to fit the "we have a problem with someone so we kill them off" solution.

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So over 4 seasons you can pick 3 instances where an OUTLAW MOTORCYCLE GANG kills someone as a solution and that constitutes a "problem"? I guess they should all go to therapy and discuss there problems amicably. Some people will complain about anything...next you'll tell me you have a problem w/ them all riding motorcycles...

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I just wonder in the end who will actually kill Clay when that time comes. everyone knows it's coming...jax? Gemma? Unser? Tig? The Cartel?

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You mean at the conclusion of the series (if at all) right? I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong...but Clay isn't going anywhere until the show is all but wrapped.

I agree.. When Clay dies the show is over

And I'm with prepyag on the "killing off characters" thing.

We never see JT....so he doesn't really count. Half-sac was a character built into the plot line as an expendable. Deputy Hale was a sub character (and not killed by the club). The Irish guys/Arizona guys are all expendable as far as the show goes. Heck even Donna, who seemed huge in the first season and was a major loss to Opie, was a minor character in the big scheme of things.

Piney is the only key character they've taken out.

If they killed any of the following before the end of this season, I would say WOW...they took out two majors characters this season (Piney being one):
Bobby
Juice
Tig
Gemma
Chibs
Opie
Jax
Clay
Unser
Tara

Even if they took out Happy or the blonde guy that Tig had the issue with, I would still call them sub characters. I could see Chucky, Oswald, one of the prospects, the head of the Mayans (doubtful), Lyla, the hospital administrator, the sheriff (or his wife), etc., all being expendable either this year or in the following seasons and the show not missing a beat.

Don't get your colors in a wad, no complaints about the show here. I was just thinking of scenarios where someone was killed because Clay had a problem with them.

It's hard to classify JT's character...never seen him, but so much happens/has happened because of him. Donna was definitely secondary, but Opie is major. Piney didn't get as much air time, but was well-liked because he was a link back to JT, because he stood up to Clay, and because he's Opie's dad. If anything happens to Tara, that is a huge deal.

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You mean at the conclusion of the series (if at all) right? I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong...but Clay isn't going anywhere until the show is all but wrapped.

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Yeah, I'm talking about in the final season, whatever season that is, because I agree no Clay, no show.

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Did Piney really have a contingency plan in place with Tara?

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Surprised this hasn't been mentioned more than once. There's no telling what his contingency plan is or if it will even come up again.

Hard to believe Piney would not have a plan in place knowing Clay's past and that Clay taking Piney out was a very real possibility.

this ep inspired me to make some chili this weekend.

As opposed to rubbing your wife's feet?

I think Gemma will kill Clay in the last episode. She was his biggest supporter in the beginning, so it's most appropriate for her to be the one who kills him in the end.

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I think Gemma will kill Clay in the last episode. She was his biggest supporter in the beginning, so it's most appropriate for her to be the one who kills him in the end

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Think she'll do it protecting Jax or the kids or something?

...or maybe Gemma kills Clay realizing even she isn't safe!

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I'm not sure I really need any explaination or lead in to explain the no black thing. We're all looking at this from an audience perspective expecting everything to be spoon fed to us. If this were just a window into real life I doubt they would constantly go around reiterating the fact there was a rule about no blacks. It would just be a known rule within the club, be it written or unwritten, it's understood and unquestioned. If the Juice situation never came about, that rule would still be in place and we as an audience would just never know about it.

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I agree with this.

It's not that they are racist....it's simply the membership is segregated. That's pretty evident by the make-up of the clubs they associate with. I dont really think any further explanation was needed. It is what it is, and they expanded on it when they needed to.

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Clay has now killed Piney (his SAMCRO sponsor), JT (his best friend and president of SAMCRO, before the series), ordered the hit that resulted in Donna's death (going for Opie), and has ordered a hit on Tara (his daughter-in-law). He's also got the club "...in over their heads..." (Jax's words). Did Piney really have a contingency plan in place with Tara?

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We were talking about this last night.

Because of Clay, Opie has lost Donna, Piney, and his new wife (bugged out cause of the drugs).

Jax has lost his father, and now his wife and two boys.

I'd hate to see the gut-pile left of Clay if Opie and Jax discover the truth.

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I'd hate to see the gut-pile left of Clay if Opie and Jax discover the truth.

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You ain't kidding...Clay has already foreshadowed this in a previous episode. Said something about if Jax finds out "he'll have my head on the reaper pole."

BTW, I am a Direct TV customer, so I guess I am watching online next week?



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zap...you are right, I forgot about that! Jax will take Clay's head, Opie will stomp his testicles, and they'll both dance around his gut-pile!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/26/us-bikers-war-idUSTRE79P5BG20111026

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I believe "LS" stands for Lobos Surenos

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negative ghostrider, the cartel is full. It's Lobos Sonora. They are a band of outlaws who pledged to avenge the death of a brother killed by a cowboy blinded by mescal. Happened at an ol' bar called Amanda's.

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Opie's old lady won't let him be more active in the club, we kill him

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Umm, Opie being set up as a rat had juuuuuust little bit to do with the hit. And Clay tried to call Tig to stop it.

And Jax and Tara's baby is named after Jax's dead brother Thomas.

Excellent episode, except for the chili part, that seemed unnecessary to me.

fans of the show might find this an interesting read:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/26/us-bikers-war-idUSTRE79P5BG20111026 oops, just saw the link posted above. still good enough to post it again I suppose.

[This message has been edited by chris1515 (edited 10/26/2011 7:50p).]

The above link made me want to post this.

If you like the show I highly recommend picking up this book about the ATF agent who went undercover and infiltrated the Mongols MC. I read it a couple years ago and WOW. Again...If you like the show this book won't let you down.

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Alone-Undercover-Infiltrated-Motorcycle/dp/0812969529/ref=pd_sim_b_2

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Every time Clay talks now, all I can think about is how much he reminds me of Scar from Lion King. I'm not sure why I initially made that connection.

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It might also be because both characters are based on Claudius from Hamlet.

you're right, I'd completely forgotten Lion King wad a Hamlet interpretation. But my point was more on their speaking style.

Clay has now murdered 1/3 of the First 9.

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Clay has now murdered 1/3 of the First 9.

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JT and Piney....who else?