tailgatetimer10 said:
If Merc would've done a standard successful pit stop on the VSC, they would've ended up ahead of Max. In my opinion they assumed the risk of the pit going wrong, exceeded the reward.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't Max pit for the VSC, so wouldn't Lewis have stayed in front of him had he pitted? Or, as the announcers alluded to, Max pitted because Lewis did not. They thought Red Bull was playing a whatever you do, we're doing the opposite approach. Had that been the case and Lewis pitted, he would have had to pass Max. But he would have had newer tires and a faster car.TulaneAg said:
Yeah, there's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on wrt Mercedes tires, but if Mercedes matches Max's tire change at the VSC and/or the Latiffi crash safety car... They give up track position AND the two are equal on tires. They have to pass Max straight up which was possible but certainly not easy. And Max had proven time and again he would drive/defend to the death as a crash that takes them both out was to his advantage.
Mercedes played it by the book in both those instances. Horner admitted red bull needed a miracle and Haas/Williams gave it them... plus Masi making a call inconsistent with anything that had been done before.
I don't have a dog in this fight as my chosen team was yucking it up mid pack but I didn't see Mercedes do anything wrong strategically those last few laps.
htxag09 said:
But Mercedes was ahead of them, and could have pitted as well. Hence Lewis saying "I think it's a risky move leaving me out here". I don't think it was that unlucky timing of the vsc in which Lewis was past the pit entrance but max wasn't.
Either way, I don't believe the poster I quoted was correct in saying had Lewis pitted he would have been behind max and on equal tires.
I'm still learning F1, but the fact that Red Bull pitted twice and still came out on top, regardless of the how the last lap was set up means that, in my humble and uneducated opinion, maybe Hamilton shouldn't have had tires that were 75% of the race old...Max was fresh and it made a difference.PJYoung said:htxag09 said:
Meh, glad they're somewhat moving on. But, still, get over yourselves. For one person to apply a rule in which it's never been applied and single handedly decide the championship? C'mon man. Plenty of events decided the championship. Lewis crashing Max in Silverstone, Bottas crashing Max, Max crashing Hamilton in Italy, Max having a blowout in Baku, Lewis not being able to capitalize because he hit some magic button and ran off the track, Mercedes thinking they had it in the bag and not changing Lewis's tires, etc.
lol nobody would ever change tires there. Holy cow.
Tyre strategy is one of the tougher aspects to understand about F1 until you have watched several races to see how tyre strategy can affect the whole race.XpressAg09 said:I'm still learning F1, but the fact that Red Bull pitted twice and still came out on top, regardless of the how the last lap was set up means that, in my humble and uneducated opinion, maybe Hamilton shouldn't have had tires that were 75% of the race old...Max was fresh and it made a difference.PJYoung said:htxag09 said:
Meh, glad they're somewhat moving on. But, still, get over yourselves. For one person to apply a rule in which it's never been applied and single handedly decide the championship? C'mon man. Plenty of events decided the championship. Lewis crashing Max in Silverstone, Bottas crashing Max, Max crashing Hamilton in Italy, Max having a blowout in Baku, Lewis not being able to capitalize because he hit some magic button and ran off the track, Mercedes thinking they had it in the bag and not changing Lewis's tires, etc.
lol nobody would ever change tires there. Holy cow.
The biggest one I remember was Lewis staying out on intermediates and being the only car on a restart when everyone else went back to slicks. Lewis had to pit again to go on to slicks and lost a lot of time.La Fours said:
Early in the year, it seemed like MB had some uncharacteristic strategy mistakes that cost them. Whereas in years past, RB was the one making the mistakes. I can't recall off the top of my head some examples, but I'm pretty sure myself and others mentioned it on the thread.
Feel for Bottas tonight - he's present at the FIA Prize Giving Gala and in a press conference alongside Verstappen and Horner (as Hamilton and Wolff are snubbing it). He's leaving Mercedes, but going to be their unofficial spokesperson in that scenario! #F1
— Chris Medland (@ChrisMedlandF1) December 16, 2021
Love him more and more every day.WC87 said:
Love Boss Ass. Glad to see him at the Gala.
That should help w/ some of the muffling of the engine noise. It still makes me sad when I watch videos of the V10 era glory days w/ the 19,000 RPM screams. For those of you newer to the sport, check this out for proper F1 sound:tk for tu juan said:
MGU-H dropped from the 2026 engine rules, we may finally get to root for Porsche (again) in F1. Guess we will see if the shared development between VW Group and Red Bull Powerunits happens now
1:21 is a thing of beauty....gggmann said:That should help w/ some of the muffling of the engine noise. It still makes me sad when I watch videos of the V10 era glory days w/ the 19,000 RPM screams. For those of you newer to the sport, check this out for proper F1 sound:tk for tu juan said:
MGU-H dropped from the 2026 engine rules, we may finally get to root for Porsche (again) in F1. Guess we will see if the shared development between VW Group and Red Bull Powerunits happens now
AggieGunslinger said:
As a newcomer to the sport, weren't the two lap traffic cars just going to get out to Max's way the minute the safety car bailed, does Merc expect lap traffic to run interference for them.
Gladiator 96 said:
Lewis was sitting on about a 10 - 11 second lead on Max. The estimated pit time under safety car was 14 seconds. Mercedes felt that they would lose track position to Max, so they left him out with the hope that Max would run out of laps before he could catch Lewis.
Not to mention that it directly contradicted something Masi himself said last year at the Eifel GP:PJYoung said:Gladiator 96 said:
Lewis was sitting on about a 10 - 11 second lead on Max. The estimated pit time under safety car was 14 seconds. Mercedes felt that they would lose track position to Max, so they left him out with the hope that Max would run out of laps before he could catch Lewis.
It was an extremely standard decision - i.e. nobody else would've done it differently in their shoes.
They got screwed by the race director doing something different than they had ever seen.
F1 just needs to get a standard end of race scenario and then stick with it. If they need every race to end under green then figure it out but making it up on the spot like they did was horrific.
Regulations say "any", not "all". No dog in the hunt, but that linguistic difference (if any) was used in the RB rebuttal to the stewards post-race.Kyle98 said:Not to mention that it directly contradicted something Masi himself said last year at the Eifel GP:PJYoung said:Gladiator 96 said:
Lewis was sitting on about a 10 - 11 second lead on Max. The estimated pit time under safety car was 14 seconds. Mercedes felt that they would lose track position to Max, so they left him out with the hope that Max would run out of laps before he could catch Lewis.
It was an extremely standard decision - i.e. nobody else would've done it differently in their shoes.
They got screwed by the race director doing something different than they had ever seen.
F1 just needs to get a standard end of race scenario and then stick with it. If they need every race to end under green then figure it out but making it up on the spot like they did was horrific.
"There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past."
https://www.planetf1.com/news/michael-masi-contradicts-lapped-car-clarification/
A buddy of mine got me into F1 back in 2008. He was a huge Hamilton fan from his rookie season the year before, so I started rooting for him as well. Fast forward to when Red Bull with Horner and Vettel are dominating, and Horner just comes across as an entitled, arrogant, smarmy *******. And yes, I realize the irony and hypocrisy of a Hamilton fan saying that, but I'm too entrenched now. :-)AgGrad99 said:
Curious why you dislike Horner.
Quote:
I have basically come to the conclusion that, if you are a Merc fan, you can't stand Horner, and if you are a RB fan you can't stand Toto.
Personally I think they are about equal in the complaints and drama department.
Not that I disagree, but Masi himself used the exact opposite reasoning a year ago in Eifel when Red Bull complained about a long safety car. So, the precedent for "any" being analogous with "all" was set. So, I don't buy it. I also don't blame RB for using that in their rebuttal, as without the precedent, I would read it the same way.Anagrammatic Nudist said:Regulations say "any", not "all". No dog in the hunt, but that linguistic difference (if any) was used in the RB rebuttal to the stewards post-race.Kyle98 said:Not to mention that it directly contradicted something Masi himself said last year at the Eifel GP:PJYoung said:Gladiator 96 said:
Lewis was sitting on about a 10 - 11 second lead on Max. The estimated pit time under safety car was 14 seconds. Mercedes felt that they would lose track position to Max, so they left him out with the hope that Max would run out of laps before he could catch Lewis.
It was an extremely standard decision - i.e. nobody else would've done it differently in their shoes.
They got screwed by the race director doing something different than they had ever seen.
F1 just needs to get a standard end of race scenario and then stick with it. If they need every race to end under green then figure it out but making it up on the spot like they did was horrific.
"There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past."
https://www.planetf1.com/news/michael-masi-contradicts-lapped-car-clarification/
