I thought it was a few 5 second penalties but yes he and Leclerc both penalized in Austria.
***** Formula 1 - 2021 Season *****
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Last: 3 yr ago by MichaelMasi
As harsh as today was, I don't know that today will be last of the potential brushups between these two. They both want badly to win that drivers championship this year and now the points are back to almost even.
Hopefully, they will be able to have these battles without the severe outcome that happened today. However, Lewis/Max front row battles will be the norm the rest of this year. Buckle up tight and get your popcorn ready !!
Hopefully, they will be able to have these battles without the severe outcome that happened today. However, Lewis/Max front row battles will be the norm the rest of this year. Buckle up tight and get your popcorn ready !!
But it won't work that way because odds are almost certain that Max wins as long as he's still in the race. That's the problem with races like this one - it's all upside for Hamilton to take out Max because he doesn't win otherwise. But put a DNF Max and it's a gravy race for Hamilton. Hamilton knewif he let Max finish that first lap the he had no chance of winning. We saw in the Sprint race exactly what would happen.
Knowing the FIA will dish out petty penalties means he can be as 'aggressive' as necessary early on with almost no consequences.
Knowing the FIA will dish out petty penalties means he can be as 'aggressive' as necessary early on with almost no consequences.
Silver Arrows said:
Seems pretty close to me. Takes two to tango like Toto said. Max has gotten lucky that Lewis has backed out in the past but this time he didn't. Maybe he'll think twice now.
I'm SHOCKED 'Silver Arrows' would take this position lol.
It's in the FIA rulebook: "It is the responsibility of the overtaking car to do so cleanly."
Lewis missed the line and let's not pretend he didn't do this to Albon twice last year.
"This guy is such a sore loser."
numetalbizkitaggie said:Silver Arrows said:
Seems pretty close to me. Takes two to tango like Toto said. Max has gotten lucky that Lewis has backed out in the past but this time he didn't. Maybe he'll think twice now.
I'm SHOCKED 'Silver Arrows' would take this position lol.
It's in the FIA rulebook: "It is the responsibility of the overtaking car to do so cleanly."
Lewis missed the line and let's not pretend he didn't do this to Albon twice last year.
"This guy is such a sore loser."
I do not know all the rules nor pretend to but just watching yesterday "common sense" seemed to tell me that Lewis was in the wrong on the move. Your statement that I bolded makes it very clear.
The other thing I would be curious about is how penalties are assessed. It seems like the greater the impact your actions had to ruin another driver's chance the greater your penalty should be. If he ruined Max's day with a move that broke the rules, why would he not be forced to come off the track as well. I am maybe wrong on my thoughts and trying to think about other sports where a "foul" would cause someone to be carted off and what usually then happens to the player committing the foul....
McLaren stands with Formula 1, the FIA, and our fellow teams and drivers in condemning the deplorable racist abuse towards Lewis Hamilton.
— McLaren (@McLarenF1) July 19, 2021
Racism must be driven out of our sport, and it’s our shared responsibility to unite and eliminate it.
I'm really interested in the Max vs Lewis dynamic going forward as a result of this incident, but I think I might be equally interested in the Botas vs Mercedes dynamic after being forced to watch Lewis pass after such a dirty move....Lewis is the one that messed up yet he's rewarded? Yeah, Botas can't be happy about that.
I absolutely think that Hamilton was in the wrong, but man some of those comments were pretty awful.
I am glad the teams (McLaren and Red Bull) came out in support of Lewis (although I didnt really go looking to see what was trending re: him).
However, after over a year or more of anti-racism ads, kneeling at Premier League games, etc it seems those "campaigns" to "drive out racism" are not working. Maybe just maybe the constant preaching creates more division than just "leaving it alone"? Seems to be a problem of the heart / society.
Maybe i am wrong and the ads / campaigns keep it from being worse?
However, after over a year or more of anti-racism ads, kneeling at Premier League games, etc it seems those "campaigns" to "drive out racism" are not working. Maybe just maybe the constant preaching creates more division than just "leaving it alone"? Seems to be a problem of the heart / society.
Maybe i am wrong and the ads / campaigns keep it from being worse?
I never said Lewis wasn't at fault. Alonso, Leclerc, and Ricciardo think it was a racing incident but I suppose they're biased too.
There are race altering or ending crashes in almost every race. People seem to get really angry when it involves Lewis for some reason.
Bottas isn't in the championship fight and is the second driver. Sort of like when Perez moved out of Max's way in France or Rubens for years with Schumacher. Why do people get angry when Lewis is helped by his teammate. What's different about him?
Silver Arrows said:
There are race altering or ending crashes in almost every race. People seem to get really angry when it involves Lewis for some reason.
Probably because the nature of it involving Lewis (or Max) means it's taking out a contender for the race and for points.
Not many people are going to get too worked up when gasly and ocon are involved in a crash fighting over 12th place, for example..
Of all the crazy things said on this thread this weekend, the love for Bottas is the strangest. And I think it's completely driven by the dislike of Lewis.Silver Arrows said:
Bottas isn't in the championship fight and is the second driver. Sort of like when Perez moved out of Max's way in France or Rubens for years with Schumacher. Why do people get angry when Lewis is helped by his teammate. What's different about him?
Bottas is a solid enough #2 but nothing special. If you can't see that after what Russell did with one week in the car I don't know what to tell you.
Russell is going to come in next year and be a real thorn in Hamilton's side. At least as much as Nico was.
I suppose I just don't get it. I think being a fan of the sport you should be mad when anyone's race is affected.
Silver Arrows said:
There are race altering or ending crashes in almost every race. People seem to get really angry when it involves Lewis for some reason.
When the driver in 2nd place, who drives for the team in 2nd in the constructors championship, who is also in 2nd in driver points, initiates a wreck which takes out the race leader, who drives for the team in 1st in constructors points, and is 1st in driver standings, I think that really tends to make people upset. Especially when the end result is the lead in both championships is narrowed to less than 10 points.
Really - not too many people were upset in 2018 when Kimi clipped Lewis and Vettel going on to win. Far more people were mad about Lewis saying something instead. Even Kimi's wife decided to join in.
Also don't see many organizations having to make press releases because of the abuse a driver is facing because of racing incidents. But they did have to this time with Lewis.
Also don't see many organizations having to make press releases because of the abuse a driver is facing because of racing incidents. But they did have to this time with Lewis.
Two things to add:
1. The stewards are not supposed to consider the results of an incident when issuing penalties.
2. Hamilton's (non) reaction to the penalty tells me he knows he was in the wrong. Typically he calls BS over the radio for pretty much any penalty I've ever seen him get.
1. The stewards are not supposed to consider the results of an incident when issuing penalties.
2. Hamilton's (non) reaction to the penalty tells me he knows he was in the wrong. Typically he calls BS over the radio for pretty much any penalty I've ever seen him get.
Silver Arrows said:
Bottas isn't in the championship fight and is the second driver. Sort of like when Perez moved out of Max's way in France or Rubens for years with Schumacher. Why do people get angry when Lewis is helped by his teammate. What's different about him?
I get it that Bottas is the No. 2, and I'M not angry about Lewis getting the free pass on him. Bottas is human though and wants to be successful. He's a competitor. I'm saying that I could see that competitiveness being amplified not because of the free pass alone, but because it came after Lewis really didnt deserve the free pass after what he had done. Bottas drove a clean race.
'03ag said:Of all the crazy things said on this thread this weekend, the love for Bottas is the strangest. And I think it's completely driven by the dislike of Lewis.Silver Arrows said:
Bottas isn't in the championship fight and is the second driver. Sort of like when Perez moved out of Max's way in France or Rubens for years with Schumacher. Why do people get angry when Lewis is helped by his teammate. What's different about him?
Bottas is a solid enough #2 but nothing special. If you can't see that after what Russell did with one week in the car I don't know what to tell you.
Russell is going to come in next year and be a real thorn in Hamilton's side. At least as much as Nico was.
Well I'm the one that said it, and it really has nothing to do with Hamilton. The dude is on the podium every week as a #2 driver and needs to be on a team where he's the #1 driver. He's that good IMO.
He's in the frame for a seat back at Williams. (Hulkenberg too).
It's not just you and it's not just this weekend. Seems to come up any time he's holding up Hamilton and the team asks him to move.mts6175 said:'03ag said:Of all the crazy things said on this thread this weekend, the love for Bottas is the strangest. And I think it's completely driven by the dislike of Lewis.Silver Arrows said:
Bottas isn't in the championship fight and is the second driver. Sort of like when Perez moved out of Max's way in France or Rubens for years with Schumacher. Why do people get angry when Lewis is helped by his teammate. What's different about him?
Bottas is a solid enough #2 but nothing special. If you can't see that after what Russell did with one week in the car I don't know what to tell you.
Russell is going to come in next year and be a real thorn in Hamilton's side. At least as much as Nico was.
Well I'm the one that said it, and it really has nothing to do with Hamilton. The dude is on the podium every week as a #2 driver and needs to be on a team where he's the #1 driver. He's that good IMO.
A #1 somewhere? Sure. But at minimum Mercedes, Red Bull, and Ferarri have better #1s. And I would argue that McLaren, Alpine, Aston and Williams do too.
He seems like a good dude, but I can't say I feel bad for him. Mercedes let Lewis and Nico battle it out until there was a clear leader for the championship, and I think if Bottas had the stuff to challenge, they'd let him fight too.
One of the key reasons for selecting Bottas was that MB would not see a repeat of the Rosberg - Hamilton rivalry. Bottas was going to be the perfect team player. Bottas is a better #2 than Perez is for RB as Bottas is more often in a position to impact strategy, etc. for other teams and drivers. If he's going to be replaced it will need to be with someone who is willing to play that specific role. Challenging the #1 for wins head to head is not what Toto wants to see. RB has been desperate to find a #2 who could do the same for Verstappen and, while Perez is better than the previous drivers, he's too often putting himself out of any opportunity to have an impact on the front.
Doesn't Mercedes have to have an eye on the future though? How much longer is Hamilton going to race and be the guy?
I know he has a two year extension, but what can you count on after that. It seems like it's time to bring in someone who they can develop over the next couple of years.
I know he has a two year extension, but what can you count on after that. It seems like it's time to bring in someone who they can develop over the next couple of years.
I think they're comfortable bringing George in next year and dealing with a maximum of two years of competitive chaos if George proves ultra-competitive.
Have y'all seen this video? It really gives you an idea of the speed you don't get on TV. Also the crowd seemed extremely loud.
The only thing stronger in F1 than the Lewis haters are the disciples of Saint Hamilton.
Another opinion piece on the Hamilton/Verstappen incident from F1 website ...
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.palmer-the-hamilton-verstappen-clash-polarised-opinion-but-i-believe-it-was.4YywgtRgaAvT9WUvXiKGCg.html
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.palmer-the-hamilton-verstappen-clash-polarised-opinion-but-i-believe-it-was.4YywgtRgaAvT9WUvXiKGCg.html
So the one thing i will "argue" as a very novice follower....the announcers seem to hint at "forgiveness" on lap 1 vs any other lap so maybe that is why the difference?
You can now weigh in...
This should make for some interesting viewing…
— Matt Gallagher (@MattyWTF1) July 20, 2021
Who was at fault?
Yeah and Leclerc didn't get a penalty for crashing out Stroll in Sochi in lap 1.
If I've learned anything from this, it's how absolutely unhinged international F1 fans can be.
Scrolling through Twitter has been entertaining to say the least.
Scrolling through Twitter has been entertaining to say the least.
Just look at this thread. Somehwere around 20% of a 5 month old thread occured in the last 48 hours.
Certainly made for a lot of talking, arguing, and defending. Cant wait for Hungary! Not excited for the month off after it though.
Certainly made for a lot of talking, arguing, and defending. Cant wait for Hungary! Not excited for the month off after it though.
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