***** Formula 1 - 2021 Season *****

220,393 Views | 2957 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by MichaelMasi
Ferg
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So who do they get if Max isn't ready to go next race? Nico?

I'm hoping he is though, but that was a heck of a lot of force he hit with.
TulaneAg
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Going around the outside always leaves you vulnerable to the inside driver. Once you decide to do that you've put the outcome in someone else's hands.

Acknowledging the corners are not mirror images of each other... If you look at the major corner prior to the incident, you'll see Max going in hot on the inside and shooting through the corner and Hamilton recognizing it, late apexing, and squaring off the corner to be able to get on the gas earlier and shooting up through the inside. That's the safe way to compete on the outside of the corner to ensure you stay in the race and live to fight again next lap. Doing what Max did today and Perez and LeClerc did the previous week forces a binary outcome.

The old guys tend to not force that binary outcome especially early in the race while the young guys tend to throw it out there and go for glory and scream for a penalty when it doesn't work out.
mts6175
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AG
'03ag said:

"a wheel"

That's asinine. Hamilton was fully alongside heading into the corner. Then you had a combo of Verstappen braking very late and Hamilton breaking a little early. That doesn't entitle Verstappen to the corner. If Hamilton charges into the corner the way Max did, he pushes Max wide on exit and then they're crying just as badly.
Lewis' left front and Max's right rear are what collided and he was fully along side him? Tell me how that physically works? He wasn't fully along side, he was half a car length and never was in front of him, which by rule he should have backed off. He also didn't turn into the apex, pushing his line to the middle of the track and forcing Verstappen wide. Just flat out by dirty Hamilton.
htxag09
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AG
And it looked like he did the exact same to leclerc but leclerc backed off and went wide. Granted those cars weren't nearly on the same level as Hamilton and verstappen.
'03ag
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Hamilton had the front of his front tire about even with Max's front axle before Max braked late into the corner.

Then Hamilton pointed his car at the apex. The assertion that he didn't is unequivocally false.
'03ag
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Max is not entitled to this apex.


'03ag
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Max diving hard as Hamilton turns his car to the apex.
htxag09
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To be fair that's a terrible camera to judge off of. Wide angle, camera location, etc. By that freeze frame you couldn't tell if max was 1' or 5' ahead.
mts6175
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AG
'03ag said:

Hamilton had the front of his front tire about even with Max's front axle before Max braked late into the corner.

Then Hamilton pointed his car at the apex. The assertion that he didn't is unequivocally false.
Hamilton isn't pointed at the apex, he's pointed at the center of the track. His steering wheel may be pointed there, but the car wasn't. Photo is right before impact.

'03ag
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And of course here's Hamilton earlier. He gets nearly past Max on the straight, Max goes hard to the inside. And from THIS position Hamilton leaves plenty of room on the inside and loses the corner.
'03ag
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That's total nonsense. He was pointed at the apex. The photo is right before Max turns into him as he's still trying to dive past
mts6175
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AG
And shots fired......

La Fours
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I think it was after the race where Karun showed a side by side of of where Hamilton's car was at Copse with Max and Leclerc. Hamilton was much wider when he was trying to pass Max. And stayed very close to the inside with Leclerc.

The racing rule about the driver attempting to pass must yield the racing line to the lead car, I assumed didn't apply here because of the lack of mention by the broadcasters and after race interviews?
mts6175
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'03ag said:

That's total nonsense. He was pointed at the apex. The photo is right before Max turns into him as he's still trying to dive past
Look at the antenna on the car, that's the center point, it's pointed at the middle of the track. There's a million replays right now showing he was wide into the corner. And Max is already turned in that photo.
'03ag
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I've seen them all and Hamilton is fine. He's not gonna put half the car over the curb, but he's nowhere near the "middle of the track." This is so friggin' bizarre.

It's a shame Max threw his race away when he had so much room and the downforce to make it stick on the outside.
mts6175
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La Fours said:

I think it was after the race where Karun showed a side by side of of where Hamilton's car was at Copse with Max and Leclerc. Hamilton was much wider when he was trying to pass Max. And stayed very close to the inside with Leclerc.

The racing rule about the driver attempting to pass must yield the racing line to the lead car, I assumed didn't apply here because of the lack of mention by the broadcasters and after race interviews?
They showed it during the stop of the race after it. Trying to find it, because it pretty much proves the point that Hamilton was wrong. He didn't have it and should have yielded it.

It also should be noted if people didn't catch it, Lewis had to be leading after lap one for Mercedes' strategy to work, hence the aggressiveness.
htxag09
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Yeah. That'd be an interesting shot to see. I missed it. Also, a video overlay of the paths would have been interesting and pretty straight forward.

I tend to side with racing incident. Both max and Lewis could have backed out but didn't and both did things that make them each at fault. If I had to say one was more at fault it would be Hamilton. He was passing, he also took the inside line then pushed up to the middle of the track. To say he was hitting the apex and/or he was entitled to the line because he was even with or leading into the corner are both just wrong, IMO.
Gladiator 96
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mts6175
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htxag09 said:

Yeah. That'd be an interesting shot to see. I missed it. Also, a video overlay of the paths would have been interesting and pretty straight forward.

I tend to side with racing incident. Both max and Lewis could have backed out but didn't and both did things that make them each at fault. If I had to say one was more at fault it would be Hamilton. He was passing, he also took the inside line then pushed up to the middle of the track. To say he was hitting the apex and/or he was entitled to the line because he was even with or leading into the corner are both just wrong, IMO.
Jensen Button's comments post race kinda defined it a little better. To him it wasn't the position fighting going on, but there was no physical way for Hamilton to carry that speed at the angle he had and hit the apex. Said he should have backed off because of that.
La Fours
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I found the video I was talking about from the post race on the Sky Sports F1 Facebook page. Here are two screen shots I took from the video showing the different lines Hamilton took. I think he and Max were both very aggressive and it ended up costing Max the race.





Here's the link to the video on Facebook.

https://fb.watch/6QeRkN-J_a/

After seeing the replays where Lewis backed off in similar situations in prior races this year and yesterday, I wonder if Hamilton, either consciously or subconsciously, was thinking "I'm not going to backdown at my home track."

I find interesting as well, that these kinds of incidents never seem to have much of an impact on Lewis, but the other driver is either out of the race or drops several positions. Even with a 5 or 10 second penalty, at worst he only drops is a place or two.
Spaceball 1
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AG
I hope Perez knocks Hamilton out in the next race. Mercedes and Lewis are trash
kyledr04
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AG
I liked the sprint, it added more to the weekend. Hated to see Max knocked out but that's racing, maybe next week Hamilton has a DNF.
aggiejumper
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Yep, long season.
Things balanced out in Baku, I expect something to happen in the next few races. MB is pushing the car limits hard and I think there's something mechanical that gives eventually. Just a wild guess. We shall see.
lunchbox
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Cramp00
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Being new to the sport, I have no idea who's at fault. But let's have more of that.
Enviroag02
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AG
Damn projectiles flying into the crowd. That was a HARD hit!
lunchbox
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Enviroag02 said:

Damn projectiles flying into the crowd. That was a HARD hit!


I was really worried at the time that his tire would pop up over the fence. As it turns out, it got really close to hitting the halo a couple of times.
Vernada
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Just finishing up the race. Haven't read the thread yet but F Hamilton. If you can't be the fastest then just take out the fastest guy. Not a fan of how this race went.
Vernada
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A dirty move? I dunno about that. But if Hamilton wouldn't have taken out Max he never would have won. No doubt about that.
Silver Arrows
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Seems pretty close to me. Takes two to tango like Toto said. Max has gotten lucky that Lewis has backed out in the past but this time he didn't. Maybe he'll think twice now.
Silver Arrows
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Lol great thinking. You hope someone intentionally crashes into Lewis because of a racing incident. So many trash fans.
Vernada
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Silver Arrows said:

Seems pretty close to me. Takes two to tango like Toto said. Max has gotten lucky that Lewis has backed out in the past but this time he didn't. Maybe he'll think twice now.


Certainly worked on Leclerc. He knew Hamilton would just wreck him if he didn't back out.
Vernada
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Silver Arrows said:

Lol great thinking. You hope someone intentionally crashes into Lewis because of a racing incident. So many trash fans.


Stop your bs. We all know it wasn't a racing incident because he got a penalty - even though it wasnt severe enough, but a 10 s penalty is about as severe as FIA gives out these days.
Silver Arrows
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Or he isn't dumb enough to think that Lewis will do whatever he wants. Max has bullied Lewis successfully at the start of multiple races this year and was all over the place at the start of this one. He loves racing with his elbows out assuming others will back down. This time Lewis didn't and I don't think Lewis will back down any more for Max. Max will have to decide how much risk he's willing to take.
Silver Arrows
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Perez got a stop go penalty earlier this year if I'm not mistaken.
 
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