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Kansas Kid
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In reply to aggiesundevil4 • 4:35p, 2/28/24
aggiesundevil4 said:
So this feels like $10mm net worth by 50 should be FU money territory…?

Depends on the person and how much they think they need to spend to be happy. As I have gotten older, my expenditures have gone down because I realized more stuff actually made me less happy. As a result, my number went down a lot.
My family stopped giving gifts for birthdays, Christmas and anniversaries and it is amazing how much more everyone enjoys the occasions. Buying gifts stressed everyone out and most of the gifts weren't of much value to the recipient.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Caliber • 4:39p, 2/28/24
AG
Agreed, I feel like someone may have fat-fingered a 1 instead of a 2 there.
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FrioAg 00
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4:52p, 2/28/24
AG
Looks like the top 1% build the majority of their wealth between 45-54 years old, which matches my observations IRL

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FrioAg 00
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In reply to aggiesundevil4 • 4:55p, 2/28/24
AG
aggiesundevil4 said:
So this feels like $10mm net worth by 50 should be FU money territory…?


I think so, if you can be content with a lifestyle that spends about $30k per month.
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YouBet
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In reply to FrioAg 00 • 5:19p, 2/28/24
AG
FrioAg 00 said:
aggiesundevil4 said:
So this feels like $10mm net worth by 50 should be FU money territory…?


I think so, if you can be content with a lifestyle that spends about $30k per month.


If you can't, you never will be.
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Premium
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In reply to Kansas Kid • 9:53p, 2/28/24
AG
Kansas Kid said:
That was the one that surprised me as well. The fact that 90th% peaks earlier than others made sense because a number of them will retire early. The 99% might retire as well but they can keep growing wealth while retired.
90th are 401K contributors and the 99% are business owners cashing in later.
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EliteZags
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In reply to Caliber • 10:49p, 2/28/24
AG
Caliber said:
Kansas Kid said:
That was the one that surprised me as well. The fact that 90th% peaks earlier than others made sense because a number of them will retire early. The 99% might retire as well but they can keep growing wealth while retired.
It's not just the drop, it's the fact that it also then doubles for the next period. Seems like some data issues to me.
discovers options trading at 50
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TxAG#2011
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5:12p, 2/29/24
By my rough math I've become a millionaire in the past two weeks.

35 years old. Primarily due to being single, low cost of living, and cryptocurrency (exposure roughly $400k at the moment). My actual job netted me over $300k last year but that's the most I've ever earned by a lot.
Could drop back to peasant status any day of course!
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YouBet
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In reply to TxAG#2011 • 5:18p, 2/29/24
AG
TxAG#2011 said:
By my rough math I've become a millionaire in the past two weeks.

35 years old. Primarily due to being single, low cost of living, and cryptocurrency (exposure roughly $400k at the moment). My actual job netted me over $300k last year but that's the most I've ever earned by a lot.
Could drop back to peasant status any day of course!
You either about to get a lot richer...or get a lot poorer.
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EliteZags
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In reply to TxAG#2011 • 6:29p, 2/29/24
AG
similar situation my Personal Capital added the 2nd comma today, except zero crytpo pretty much 98% US equity, of which ~80% indexes- highest risk/reward position being >5% PLTR

fully expecting to cross back and forth over the margin a few times this year
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P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to TxAG#2011 • 7:47p, 2/29/24
AG
What's your career, if you don't mind my asking?
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SockMcSock
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9:15p, 2/29/24
Class of '10
Business owner for 7+ years
Married with kids - wife has corporate job

Net worth - $4.75m

Pretty good mix between the house ($1m+ equity in it), retirement funds (401k's, IRA's), HYSA's. CD's, and speculative stock trading (800k+ in that account).
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to Ragoo • 9:15p, 2/29/24
AG
Ragoo said:
txaggie_08 said:
Ragoo said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Red Pear Realty said:
My whole point from the beginning was that you cannot rely on a 401k to make you wealthy. You have to invest via other means. With the stats above, even assuming every American has 4-5 accounts with that average balance, the average person will be living below the poverty line.


Already been shown multiple times on this thread that this is untrue.
I don't think he is too far off actually.

If a 401k is your only means of saving/investing you aren't getting outsized returns. You may get to $1MM may even get to $2Mm but you aren't getting to $4, 5, or 10MM.

Yes, you can. Between my wife and I, our 401ks, company match, and backdoor Roths, we can have several million in retirement accounts by retirement age (assuming the market continues its same average returns over next 20+ years).
your backdoor roth isn't your 401k. You can direct invest it and have the possibility of a greater return. Which is why I was specific to say only a 401k.

Edit to add: your typical corporate sponsored 401k at best is tracking the S&P and could be doing worse. It is a consistent slow build to a number that should be considered a portion of your retirement picture.
It's still the medium for a mega-backdoor. I max it @ $69k (noice) this year and post-tax transfer to a Roth. The rules that apply are to a 401(k), so I still say it's a 401(k).


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aggiesundevil4
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In reply to SockMcSock • 10:55p, 2/29/24
AG
That is the most subtle sock handle I've ever seen!
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TxAG#2011
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In reply to P.H. Dexippus • 9:08a, 3/1/24
Commercial Real Estate
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MAS444
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In reply to TxAG#2011 • 9:45a, 3/1/24
AG
Happen to know Cash McMogulson in Dallas? If not, you should. He only does big deals.
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rononeill
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5:16p, 3/1/24
I referenced Cash this week! A true legend. I had a work trip w an investor dinner. Couldn't wait to tell Mrs. Rononeill I did deals, had steak, and wore monogrammed socks.
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rononeill
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5:17p, 3/1/24
We weren't in Dallas though, so the Loon wasn't an option
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QBCade
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 7:33p, 3/1/24
AG
Red Pear Realty said:
62strat said:
EvenPar said:
The wealthy only have roughly 20-25% of their net worth in public equities. The market can make you some money but it's not going to make you wealthy.
bezos, musk, gates, zuckerberg, Brin/page??



Everyone mentioned became wealthy by starting a business, not investing in a 401k. I recognize that wealthy has a relative meaning, also. Most of the world makes $2 a day, so even someone making $10 an hour in the USA could be considered wealthy by many. 401k's weren't designed to make you "wealthy". Starting businesses creates wealth.


True, however I should have about $3M in my 401k by the time I hang it up in ~ 8yrs. That's not what I would call wealthy, but it's pretty good.

Also, there are lots of 401k millionaires now.
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permabull
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In reply to QBCade • 3:16p, 3/2/24
AG
QBCade said:
Red Pear Realty said:
62strat said:
EvenPar said:
The wealthy only have roughly 20-25% of their net worth in public equities. The market can make you some money but it's not going to make you wealthy.
bezos, musk, gates, zuckerberg, Brin/page??



Everyone mentioned became wealthy by starting a business, not investing in a 401k. I recognize that wealthy has a relative meaning, also. Most of the world makes $2 a day, so even someone making $10 an hour in the USA could be considered wealthy by many. 401k's weren't designed to make you "wealthy". Starting businesses creates wealth.


True, however I should have about $3M in my 401k by the time I hang it up in ~ 8yrs. That's not what I would call wealthy, but it's pretty good.

Also, there are lots of 401k millionaires now.


I know way more people wealthy from 401k than from starting their own business, probably by at least a 4 to 1 margin. I know more people who lost everything starting a business than the number of people who became wealthy from it. Don't know anyone who lost everything in their 401k
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Toros23
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11:24a, 3/3/24
AG
I'll see if I can get us back on track. Admittedly, I'm late to the party on FIRE and feel behind on where I want to be but fully committed to playing catch up while learning as much as I can as quickly as I can.

This thread has been fun to find/follow and I've learned a lot just reading some of your experiences/advice.

-37 years old, wife is 32; married about a year ago
-DINK with annual W2's equivalent to roughly $215k (we just got to this level with a big(ish) raise about a year ago)
-Roughly $560k in assets and no debt outside of my primary mortgage and the rental condo mortgage
-The condo I originally bought as a residence and converted to a rental, I've owned it for 6 years now and think I've lost money on it every year. Awesome

Company RSU = $30k fully vested with another $20k to vest in next couple of years
Retirement accounts = $260k
Brokerage account = $22k
Emergency Fund = $100k
Cash in the bank = $150k (was debating on putting $100k of this into another rental/second home along the coast, but wondering if there might be a better spot for it at this point)

Have Emergency Fund fully funded and sitting with Fidelity in their Cash Reserves
Maxing out 401k and Roth's this year for first time; looking into a mega backdoor option as well

We have a good budget in place and both live well below our means. Open to any critiques/recommendations the board may have.
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BenTheGoodAg
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In reply to Toros23 • 11:29a, 3/3/24
AG
Congrats and keep up the good work!

If I had any advice, that's a huge emergency fund, especially for your situation. Your income is high, plus multiple income streams and limited risks with no kids. Most of that capital could be doing some work elsewhere.
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Toros23
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In reply to BenTheGoodAg • 1:06p, 3/3/24
AG
BenTheGoodAg said:
Congrats and keep up the good work!

If I had any advice, that's a huge emergency fund, especially for your situation. Your income is high, plus multiple income streams and limited risks with no kids. Most of that capital could be doing some work elsewhere.
Thanks!
I should clarify, that EF also accounts for a new (used) vehicle purchase that is most likely upcoming as one of our cars is almost 10 years old and I don't want to take out a loan for a car.

But your point is well taken. I was considering adding to the brokerage account anyway.
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chrisfield
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In reply to Toros23 • 3:34p, 3/3/24
Sponsor
AG
You're doing great; congrats. Two thoughts:

No equity in personal home or condo?

Also, 250k between cash reserves and emergency fund is pretty high. Nearly 50% of your net worth. I'd let a lot of that work for you in one way or another for the next 30 years for sure.
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Aggie09Derek
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In reply to Toros23 • 3:59p, 3/3/24
AG
At a minimum I would be putting the cash in a high yield savings account getting 5%ish right now.
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Toros23
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In reply to chrisfield • 4:02p, 3/3/24
AG
chrisfield said:
You're doing great; congrats. Two thoughts:

No equity in personal home or condo?

Also, 250k between cash reserves and emergency fund is pretty high. Nearly 50% of your net worth. I'd let a lot of that work for you in one way or another for the next 30 years for sure.
We have about $50k equity in the condo and $120k in the primary.

Sounds like we need to put some of that cash to work. Appreciate the feedback!
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EliteZags
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In reply to Toros23 • 11:49a, 3/4/24
AG
Toros23 said:

Maxing out 401k and Roth's this year for first time; looking into a mega backdoor option as well

max the megabackdoor and live off the emergency fund

if you didn't max 2023 Roth also do it before 4/15 from emergency fund
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LMCane
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In reply to EliteZags • 12:34p, 3/5/24
EliteZags said:
similar situation my Personal Capital added the 2nd comma today, except zero crytpo pretty much 98% US equity, of which ~80% indexes- highest risk/reward position being >5% PLTR

fully expecting to cross back and forth over the margin a few times this year

interesting that makes three of us nearly simultaneously

after working for 26 years following law school finally entered for the first time 7 figure assets net worth (excluding home) when I ran the monthly excel spreadsheet yesterday.

only want to keep in the corporate world another 2.5 years then it's off to enjoy life. I'm having a small Krispy Kreme doughnut to celebrate.
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62strat
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In reply to LMCane • 12:51p, 3/5/24
AG
LMCane said:
EliteZags said:
similar situation my Personal Capital added the 2nd comma today, except zero crytpo pretty much 98% US equity, of which ~80% indexes- highest risk/reward position being >5% PLTR

fully expecting to cross back and forth over the margin a few times this year

when I ran the monthly excel spreadsheet yesterday.
monthly??

I guess age is a factor, but for me (43) that is way too often!

I do an update yearly.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to 62strat • 1:09p, 3/5/24
I'm 45 and I was updating once a month (twice for a while). Mine is embedded in my monthly expenses spreadsheet.

But that was back when things were really good and on a constant upward trend. The last year (2023), and even some before that, I couldn't stand to look at it. Too depressing. I've only just started tracking once a month again.

I think for me, I just like seeing the growth. It's a reminder that I'm doing the right thing (even when the market sucks). And it mitigates some of my anxiety.
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Petrino1
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In reply to TXTransplant • 1:54p, 3/5/24
TXTransplant said:
I'm 45 and I was updating once a month (twice for a while). Mine is embedded in my monthly expenses spreadsheet.

But that was back when things were really good and on a constant upward trend. The last year (2023), and even some before that, I couldn't stand to look at it. Too depressing. I've only just started tracking once a month again.

I think for me, I just like seeing the growth. It's a reminder that I'm doing the right thing (even when the market sucks). And it mitigates some of my anxiety.


I only check my net worth whenever there's an all time high. I checked it a lot in February!
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YouBet
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2:01p, 3/5/24
AG
I see mine every day but that's only because it's the top level number on my financial dashboard.
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BenTheGoodAg
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10:35a, 3/7/24
AG
I log mine in my finances spreadsheet monthly. As part of that, I have a baseline curve for our investments. We have a slug of normal DCA contributions, but if we see our accounts dip below the baseline, we try to use that as a good indicator to squeeze a little more in the market. If they're way above baseline, that's when we consider a big-time purchase, like a vehicle or home improvement.
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aggieswin12
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10:42a, 3/7/24
Just recently crossed over the threshold.

Both my wife and I are 35.

House 800K - 400K mortgage = $400K
Retirement accts = $600K
Brokerage acct = $125K
Savings = $20K
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FrioAg 00
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11:16a, 3/7/24
AG
I enjoy updating my financial statements each morning. Sometimes that's only 3-4 minutes if I'm just updating the balances. Sometimes longer if I've made a significant financial decision, purchase or change. But it's sort of an excersize in focus and discipline.

It also helps me manage the stress of my job and my life. It's a great reminder that (1) it's worth it and provides me and my descendants a lot of value (2) I can walk away if I wanted to. Both factors take the edge off of sometimes stressful negotiations or other responsibilities.

On my balance sheet tab - I also keep a column that calculates what the value of equity investments would be if today's market matched whatever the all time high was. When markets are down this column is helpful as a long term investor to stay calm and realize that I'm not planning to liquidate any of those funds for a long long time
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