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Gordo14
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In reply to DRE06 • 2:18p, 2/19/21
DRE06 said:
Almost $3mm in the bank and spending $2,000 a year in vacation. Please live a little. You are going to regret this so much down the road.


What's the point of money if you don't enjoy it? $3MM is enough to safely withdraw about $120k a year out and never touch the principle... That's not even including income. Sure don't go book a private jet or international first class tickets on Qatar Airlines, but I'd hate for the only real pleasure of wealth being a slightly bigger number when I die.
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AggieFrog
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In reply to DRE06 • 2:20p, 2/19/21
AG
DRE06 said:
Almost $3mm in the bank and spending $2,000 a year in vacation. Please live a little. You are going to regret this so much down the road.

Maybe, maybe not. We're very much the same, though with three kids our vacation budget is slightly higher (we typically do a big vacation every other year). We could drive newer cars, but won't really have the need or desire to. Same with our house - our loan is well less than 1 year's income and we save almost half our gross income. Because we don't splurge on big expenses we have very little monetary stress and go and do what we want when we want. But most things we enjoy doing are quite cheap (camping/hiking/etc.).
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62strat
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In reply to mpl35 • 2:27p, 2/19/21
AG
mpl35 said:
62strat said:
TXTransplant said:
Cyp0111 said:
cars are one thing but good vacations with family seems is a worthwhile investment imo.
Seriously...with two adults and enough kids for a mini-van, $2k isn't even a vacation. More like road trip to Six Flags over San Antonio for a couple of nights.

I wouldn't be able to get up and go to work every day if I didn't know there was some travel adventure waiting for me in the near future. The last year has been HARD in that respect. I don't hate my job by any means, but it's not my passion...it's merely the way I finance the things I am passionate about.
It is all in how you look at it.

Last summer we did 5 nights in western colorado/utah. Saw arches over two days, and some beautiful state parks near Rifle, CO. It was in our camper, so it cost us (outside of cost of camper), maybe $300? Outside of food & alcohol. yes, I know the camper costs money, so that's not a bottom line vacation cost.

We also did a week on table rock lake last summer.. rented a boat, went river rafting, and canoed for 5 hours another day. Other than that, pool time and relaxation. Used marriott points, so all in cost out of pocket was maybe $1000, including fuel to drive there and back.

Vacations you can drive to are cheap. You fly, and you add $1000 just about, for family of 4. flights, transportation, airport food, etc.

Then there are the people who are in the point game, like myself. Staying at a nice resort for free for a week takes a big dent out of the cost of the vacation.

TBH - you have to include the cost of the camper. And wear/tear of mileage not just gas.


I agree, the camper cost is directly related to vacation costs. again, it's all in how you look at it. maybe the vacation only cost $500, but the camper is $200 a month.. sooo...

But, to brag a little, the trailer we used for that trip was $10k, and after 2 summers of use, we sold it for $10k. So I paid nothing for the camper. Not one dollar of maintenance or repair when into that thing!
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RightWingConspirator
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In reply to AggieFrog • 2:37p, 2/19/21
AG
AggieFrog said:
DRE06 said:
Almost $3mm in the bank and spending $2,000 a year in vacation. Please live a little. You are going to regret this so much down the road.

Maybe, maybe not. We're very much the same, though with three kids our vacation budget is slightly higher (we typically do a big vacation every other year). We could drive newer cars, but won't really have the need or desire to. Same with our house - our loan is well less than 1 year's income and we save almost half our gross income. Because we don't splurge on big expenses we have very little monetary stress and go and do what we want when we want. But most things we enjoy doing are quite cheap (camping/hiking/etc.).
This is us almost to a T. I owe about $100k on my home which is far less than what I make in a given year. I'd say our vacations are nice, but they're not extravagant. We've rented cabins in the Smokies. We've rented cabins in UT and visited Zions, Bryce Canyon, Capital Reef, etc., but we've not done Europe or anything that would be super expensive.

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AggieFrog
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In reply to RightWingConspirator • 2:43p, 2/19/21
AG
RightWingConspirator said:
AggieFrog said:
DRE06 said:
Almost $3mm in the bank and spending $2,000 a year in vacation. Please live a little. You are going to regret this so much down the road.

Maybe, maybe not. We're very much the same, though with three kids our vacation budget is slightly higher (we typically do a big vacation every other year). We could drive newer cars, but won't really have the need or desire to. Same with our house - our loan is well less than 1 year's income and we save almost half our gross income. Because we don't splurge on big expenses we have very little monetary stress and go and do what we want when we want. But most things we enjoy doing are quite cheap (camping/hiking/etc.).
This is us almost to a T. I owe about $100k on my home which is far less than what I make in a given year. I'd say our vacations are nice, but they're not extravagant. We've rented cabins in the Smokies. We've rented cabins in UT and visited Zions, Bryce Canyon, Capital Reef, etc., but we've not done Europe or anything that would be super expensive.


Mostly the same. No Europe since kids arrived. We took them on an Alaskan cruise in summer '19 which was their first really big vacation outside of a cheap cabin in Estes in '17. We camp monthly via Scouts and will have bigger Scout adventures soon since they're now teenagers (Sea Base / Northern Tier / Philmont). But most things are cheap relatively.

Personally I get a lot of satisfaction knowing that we have a huge cushion. Let's me sleep at night and that's worth much more than having a big house / fancy new cars.
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RightWingConspirator
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2:49p, 2/19/21
AG
Agreed. Over the years, O&G has been very good to me. We've not done anything too extravagant at all. Most of my bonuses we've pocketed so I have a lot to show for my time in O&G. I like the comfort I have that if my employer ever decided to fire me / lay me off, I could just go down to Costco and get a job there and just take myself out of the rat race.

I like knowing that no matter what life could throw at me, we can financially deal with it (barring some extreme examples).
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TXTransplant
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In reply to AggieFrog • 3:29p, 2/19/21
AggieFrog said:
RightWingConspirator said:
AggieFrog said:
DRE06 said:
Almost $3mm in the bank and spending $2,000 a year in vacation. Please live a little. You are going to regret this so much down the road.

Maybe, maybe not. We're very much the same, though with three kids our vacation budget is slightly higher (we typically do a big vacation every other year). We could drive newer cars, but won't really have the need or desire to. Same with our house - our loan is well less than 1 year's income and we save almost half our gross income. Because we don't splurge on big expenses we have very little monetary stress and go and do what we want when we want. But most things we enjoy doing are quite cheap (camping/hiking/etc.).
This is us almost to a T. I owe about $100k on my home which is far less than what I make in a given year. I'd say our vacations are nice, but they're not extravagant. We've rented cabins in the Smokies. We've rented cabins in UT and visited Zions, Bryce Canyon, Capital Reef, etc., but we've not done Europe or anything that would be super expensive.


Mostly the same. No Europe since kids arrived. We took them on an Alaskan cruise in summer '19 which was their first really big vacation outside of a cheap cabin in Estes in '17. We camp monthly via Scouts and will have bigger Scout adventures soon since they're now teenagers (Sea Base / Northern Tier / Philmont). But most things are cheap relatively.

Personally I get a lot of satisfaction knowing that we have a huge cushion. Let's me sleep at night and that's worth much more than having a big house / fancy new cars.


Just a side note, when those scouts get old enough to do high adventures, it's $1k-$2k per person, depending on how many people go, and factoring in the expense to get there and back.

Well worth it, IMO (my son loved Philmont, and we just booked a Sea Base SCUBA adventure for this coming summer).
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TXTransplant
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In reply to RightWingConspirator • 3:33p, 2/19/21
RightWingConspirator said:
Agreed. Over the years, O&G has been very good to me. We've not done anything too extravagant at all. Most of my bonuses we've pocketed so I have a lot to show for my time in O&G. I like the comfort I have that if my employer ever decided to fire me / lay me off, I could just go down to Costco and get a job there and just take myself out of the rat race.

I like knowing that no matter what life could throw at me, we can financially deal with it (barring some extreme examples).


I find your perspective interesting. I'm an engineer, and I've changed jobs three times. Left academics (which was miserable and paid really poorly) for a start up company that went bankrupt barely two years after I joined.

I'm in chemicals now, and have been for 8 years. It has been the most stable and well paying career so far.

But, even after losing my job once, it never even crossed my mind to leave the industry. I've worked too hard for my degrees, I guess, and my pride won't let me. Thankfully, I was only unemployed for about 3 months didn't even have to touch my emergency fund.
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RightWingConspirator
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3:46p, 2/19/21
AG
TXTransplant,

I'm 48 now. Assuming I can get another five years out of O&G without getting layed off, it would be very difficult to find a job at my current salary at that age. Why spend $200k plus per year for a guy who has maybe 8-10 years left when I can get a younger guy for half the salary and keep him/her for a few decades.

I saw my father go through that when he lost his job at 58. He flat out could not get another job and not because he wasn't qualified. Nobody wanted to touch an old man. Of course they didn't tell him that, but they didn't have to.

I love the industry. I have no desire to leave O&G. I'm a deal maker as I work in commercial. I find my job to be very satisfying and gratifying, but I won't kid myself into thinking that I'm not expendable. I just want to be prepared for the day when they come to me and tell me that my services are no longer needed.

I hope that day never comes, but many hope and are disappointed.
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mpl35
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In reply to 62strat • 4:10p, 2/19/21
AG
It's all good. I always find the different priorities interesting. We buy pretty much anything we want. But we have inexpensive tastes. If I could convince my wife that motel 6 was good enough we'd really be rich.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to RightWingConspirator • 4:11p, 2/19/21
Fair points. I'm six years younger than you are and was obviously still in my mid-30s when I lost my job the last time. But I had a colleague (not an engineer) who was unemployed for over 2 years after getting laid-off, and I've seen other friends struggle with long-term unemployment recently.

I can see where that could become an issue for me as I get older, especially since I've sort of boxed my career into a very specialized area.

But, thankfully, I only have one kid, and he will be in college in another 2-ish years. So, I'd have a lot more flexibility if it did happen again.
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Hendrix
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6:11p, 2/19/21
AG
Want to be a millionaire in a year? Invest about 250-300k in PLTR. GL!
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In reply to RightWingConspirator • 7:32p, 2/19/21
RightWingConspirator
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In reply to Gordo14 • 8:23p, 2/19/21
AG
Gordo14 said:
DRE06 said:
Almost $3mm in the bank and spending $2,000 a year in vacation. Please live a little. You are going to regret this so much down the road.


What's the point of money if you don't enjoy it? $3MM is enough to safely withdraw about $120k a year out and never touch the principle... That's not even including income. Sure don't go book a private jet or international first class tickets on Qatar Airlines, but I'd hate for the only real pleasure of wealth being a slightly bigger number when I die.


You may find this interesting, but most of the time I feel broke. Our savings rate leaves us with some flexibility but some months can be quite expensive with one-off type expenses. My savings I view as an expense and so I never cut back on that and try to run a monthly surplus with which to fund the Roth's at the end of the year. Half the time I look at my net worth and wonder why I feel so broke. It can be irritating to my wife.
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sockerton
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7:27a, 2/20/21
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cgh1999
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8:03a, 2/20/21
AG
Home prices have skyrocketed in my area. We have been in our house 12 years and it's time to upgrade. However, To upgrade to a new home same size would be $200k cost. I can remodel my house for around $100k and get 90%+ of the upgrades that I would move for.

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permabull
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8:37a, 2/20/21
AG
My response to the various 'live a little' comments sprinkled into this thread is that:

I have heard a lot of young non-millionaires tell me I should spend more.

I have heard a lot of old non-millionaires tell me they wish they saved more when they were young.

I have never heard an old millionaire tell me he regrets not spending more when he was younger.

So I am not sure where people get the idea that we will regret not spending more money once we are older.
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ORAggieFan
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In reply to permabull • 8:58a, 2/20/21
Most of the old ones have no issues with what they've splurged on over the years though.

At the end of the day, do what makes you happy. I prefer a mix. I want to retire early and enjoy many things, but I also enjoy many things now while I'm younger (as are my kids).
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agdaddy04
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In reply to permabull • 8:59a, 2/20/21
AG
Well the fact that tomorrow is never guaranteed... also I certainly have heard people with that regret. Especially when they have plenty of money but aren't in a condition to enjoy it anymore.
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YouBet
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9:05a, 2/20/21
AG
Right now, in Feb 2021, I think the folks who prioritize a higher savings rate over "live a little" should be feeling pretty good. Considering all of the uncertainty ahead I would err on the side of a higher savings rate right now and forego the yolo lifestyle.

Granted, current state of the world kind of forces you down a savings path with all the restrictions out there. We are in this weird time where most of us are not spending as much as normal but will also have our discretionary incomes further reduced as current administrative policies come to fruition.

Thus, getting used to your current covid spend levels is probably wise when your income takes at least some hit going forward.
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Aggie369
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In reply to ORAggieFan • 9:22a, 2/20/21
AG
This

Find your balance

My dad retired with more than a few million saved. He spent on things he enjoyed. His house, his children, and golf. Other than that he bought his suits at Jos. A bank when they did the buy 1 get 3 free, he drove a pathfinder, my mom got a lot of her clothes at kohl's and TJ Maxx.

Part of the fun is saving and making good choices to be able to afford something. He asked me one day if I wanted to go look at cars with him. We drove to the maserati dealer and looked the GT Coup....he loved it. We left. He got a pathfinder. He said....I just don't need it. He was happy with the pathfinder.

On the other side of the coin I had to basically yell at him to buy a townhouse in college station so he could come down for games and not have to drive back to DFW. For 8 years he came to every game and drove back that night so he didn't spend money on a hotel. He ended up buying a townhouse and it allowed our family to spend more time together because we all has season tickets.

He had no problem spending the 150k on a house for his family to spend more time together but didn't want to spend 200 on a suit. Or 300 for a hotel....or 100k for a car. He could have done all of it.

I'm not sure if he would have changed anything but he built his dream house in college station to retire in...built it for football season and built it big enough so all his children and their families had enough space to come and stay for game weekends. He got cancer and died before the home was complete.

I wish he would have bought the maserati, I wish he would have gone on more golf trips....but I'm not sure if he would have changed a thing. I learned to spend my money on things that involve time with my loved ones and what we call "memory trips". That's what his passing taught me...re prioritize my time for things/people who I love. Money well spent if its creating memories with people you love
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TXTransplant
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In reply to Aggie369 • 10:00a, 2/20/21
So much this! A $3000 Louis Vuitton purse is a literally an empty bag. The trips I've taken with my son to Italy, Germany, Hawaii, Canada, and (hopefully) Alaska have given me memories that will last a lifetime.

Also, when you do "splurge", still set and stay within a budget. I know I spend more on travel than the average person, but I still have my limits on what I will pay for certain things. It's not a blank check.
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AgNColorado
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10:02a, 2/20/21
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LRHF
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In reply to AgNColorado • 10:07a, 2/20/21
AG
CanyonLakeAg said:
I'm an early 30s millionaire. We got there by being good savers mainly by not buying stupid crap we really don't need. We've got two small kids and my wife stays at home with them.

I have a good 8-5 job but probably near the bottom of my company. I really make bank in a side gig that pays as much as my 8-5 some years and my investments have far surpassed my 8-5 salary which makes it tough to get up some mornings and go to work. I would say we are considerably more well off than our friends and co-workers but no one would be able to tell.

My entire reason for saving and investing most everything is so that I can quit my 8-5 in a few years...probably by 35 or 36 and most definitely by the time I'm 40. There's just so much I'd rather do in life with my family especially when my kids are still young and being tethered to an 8-5 really hinders that.

Sitting behind a desk all day really brings things in to perspective. Honestly the hardest thing to do most days is just get to work. I plan to keep working as long as I can but on my schedule.


Can you tell us more about the side hustle? Sounds like you have been very successful on a part time basis (FT job, family- not much time left!)
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AgNColorado
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In reply to LRHF • 10:20a, 2/20/21
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OasisMan
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In reply to permabull • 10:40a, 2/20/21
AG
hypeiv said:

I have never heard an old millionaire tell me he regrets not spending more when he was younger.

You have never heard an elderly person regret not doing something as a younger individual that they no longer have the physical capabilities to do???
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CoachRTM
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In reply to permabull • 10:47a, 2/20/21
AG
hypeiv said:
My response to the various 'live a little' comments sprinkled into this thread is that:

I have heard a lot of young non-millionaires tell me I should spend more.

I have heard a lot of old non-millionaires tell me they wish they saved more when they were young.

I have never heard an old millionaire tell me he regrets not spending more when he was younger.

So I am not sure where people get the idea that we will regret not spending more money once we are older.


Funny, my experience has mostly been the opposite. Once you hit some point in your 60s-80s (depending on what your body ages like) you just aren't able to do the things you did before.

I have many older family members with plenty of money that regret not getting to experience the things they'll never be able to because they've aged to the point where it's no longer possible.


Just like anything in life, it's not black and white - it shouldn't be "all savings" or "all spending". The right answer is in the grey somewhere.
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Cyp0111
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10:58a, 2/20/21
Personal finance is more personal than finance related. Each person is going to have different points that matter. Morgan Housel has a book called the psychology of money which really dives into this subject and provides fantastic examples.

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cgh1999
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In reply to Cyp0111 • 11:02a, 2/20/21
AG
Cyp0111 said:
Personal finance is more personal than finance related. Each person is going to have different points that matter. Morgan Housel has a book called the psychology of money which really dives into this subject and provides fantastic examples.


I figured out a few years ago that I was the only one who got enjoyment out of watching my net worth grow. On the other hand, we finally hit a point where my wife felt comfortable spending money on wants and not just needs. Now we are comfortably able to spend on fun/frivolous things, but still able to watch our NW grow.
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62strat
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In reply to CoachRTM • 11:19a, 2/20/21
AG
CoachRTM said:
hypeiv said:
My response to the various 'live a little' comments sprinkled into this thread is that:

I have heard a lot of young non-millionaires tell me I should spend more.

I have heard a lot of old non-millionaires tell me they wish they saved more when they were young.

I have never heard an old millionaire tell me he regrets not spending more when he was younger.

So I am not sure where people get the idea that we will regret not spending more money once we are older.


Funny, my experience has mostly been the opposite. Once you hit some point in your 60s-80s (depending on what your body ages like) you just aren't able to do the things you did before.

I have many older family members with plenty of money that regret not getting to experience the things they'll never be able to because they've aged to the point where it's no longer possible..

This resonates with me. My dads lifelong friend since their 20s just retired in 2019 along with my dad. They both bought a class c and had all these plans to see the country (my parents have travelled all over the world, so at aged 68 decided it's time to see more of the USA).

They are both pretty wealthy. My parents are $4-$5 million, friend is the same.

Last February, after years of being healthy, my dads friend out of nowhere developed ALS.
Within 6 months he couldn't walk. Now a year later he can't talk. He will die soon.

It's heartbreaking. You can not take it with you. My dad and friend could have easily retired at aged 60. In fact my dad did for about a year, but was slightly concerned about finances so went back to work for 9 years. I hope he doesn't come to regret it. I don't think he should have, and then his retirement partner is all but gone less than one year into retirement.

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QBCade
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In reply to Gordo14 • 12:30p, 2/20/21
AG
$3M net worth usually doesn't = $3M cash/liquid. Many people have lots of net worth tied up in illiquid investments - property, retirement (before 59.5yrs), etc. my net is almost $7M, liquid is way less, like 1/4th of that.
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QBCade
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In reply to 62strat • 12:32p, 2/20/21
AG
Yep, I encourage my folks to live it up and spend it all - don't worry about leaving it to me or my sis.
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LRHF
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In reply to QBCade • 12:34p, 2/20/21
AG
QBCade said:
$3M net worth usually doesn't = $3M cash/liquid. Many people have lots of net worth tied up in illiquid investments - property, retirement (before 59.5yrs), etc. my net is almost $7M, liquid is way less, like 1/4th of that.


Do you mind I ask age and profession? Sounds like you have some wisdom to share!
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QBCade
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In reply to LRHF • 1:01p, 2/20/21
AG
44. Semiconductor industry Sales. Obviously did 401k max out since I started out at 22, but liquid is mostly from stock comp.
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RightWingConspirator
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In reply to QBCade • 1:11p, 2/20/21
AG
QBCade said:
$3M net worth usually doesn't = $3M cash/liquid. Many people have lots of net worth tied up in illiquid investments - property, retirement (before 59.5yrs), etc. my net is almost $7M, liquid is way less, like 1/4th of that.


This is right. My net worth is probably about a million less if I only look at what's liquid. I have some home equity and a pension that today is worth easily over a million. If I back that out, we're somewhere around $1.7MM.
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