Rodolfojmv said:

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Howdy, all!

We passed from discussing the policy update to whether the Commandants is good or bad? or is he really ruining the Corps? I heard once to General Ramirez talking about an experience where the Australian officer of an Australian military school asking him: How do you give so much power to your cadets? Apparently, in Australia, the leadership in the units is composed of what we knew here as the CTO's, basically, outfits are run by the CTO's. His response to them was:
1) He does not have the staff nor the budget to have CTO's running everything but MOST IMPORTANT he gives all the trust to cadets who are leaders. Basically, He trusts the cadets to be the leaders of the training.

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One thing I will say that I am very proud of the Texas A&M Corps for is the lack of sex scandals compared to other programs. Also the lack of test cheating scandals.

When I lived in Colorado in the early 2000s, that stuff was bad at the USAFA. There are a number of women who have come forward but it usually doesn't go very far beyond some local hyped up news story. However, there are so many allegations that I suspect there are some real problems at the USAFA. Maybe they've fixed them by now. I hope so.

In Australia, the ADFA (Australian Defence Forces Academy) has been rife with sex scandals. I don't know if that's why they have so much oversight or if it's always been that way because they're essentially British at the end of the day. Americans are quite different than Brits with respect to hierarchy and layers of management especially - expectations for Officers versus NCOs and enlisted.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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CharlieBrown17 said:

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Square meals are eaten until fish get their Corps Brass, after that it's a policy from higher up that fish don't eat square meals.

But feel free to try again.

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Oh ok, I guess I misunderstood. Are you disagreeing just with my example, or the idea that you don't do something for a few years and that knowledge/traditoin is gone?

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Charlie - you still have to eat square meals after you earn your Corps Brass if your class is so awesome that it earns its Corps Brass before classes even start by marching an 8 O'clock drill at the New Jersey Meadowlands

BigTruck - to validate your point about traditions disappearing in a few short years.

When I first started working in Austin, I worked with a guy who literally had the same life as me (almost). He had also grown up in Saudi Arabia, moved to Waco, Texas for HS and then joined the Corps at A&M, earned a degree in Engineering and contracted as an Army Officer. It was crazy. But, anyway, this guy was about 8 classes ahead of me and he was an Ord Ord.

So, we're chilling out in the break room or whatever and telling good bull stories. He starts talking about quadding like that was the highlight of every day as a fish between 1981-1985 or so. I literally had no idea what he was talking about. I'm class of '92 and I had heard the term quadding but didn't really know what it was. Then he explained why they had the concrete pads in front of the dorms, what they were used for, etc. He was totally blown away that not only were we not quadding people in the 1990s but I didn't even know what it was.

At the same job, I had a homosexual non-reg co-worker Class of mid-80s who had grown up on a rural property outside College Station. He started talking about his memories of Corps Turds "hauling off" their Commanders and tying them naked to a tree. He described it as being like Christmas when fish would deliver him a naked Corps Turd. He was disappointed that we didn't do that as a general practice anymore but we always heard rumors about it.

So yeah, there are some things that disappear quickly. A few others that come to mind are:

• NOT walking on the band signs is one - including the one between Dorm 11 and the Band Room
• Beating up Corps Turds and Non-regs (including the ones from Stephen F. Austin) for running across the drill field

For the record, it was Col. Brewer who put an end to the signs around the drill field/tackling turds. He ended that even before my time. Also, they use the drill field during the summer for intramural sports.

Just to be clear, the reason that this came about was because a BQ fish told a CT to get off the drill field and the CT refused. So, naturally, the BQ fish ran out to them to guide them off and repeated "get off the drill field" and the CT replied "I'm carrying concealed." Or something to that effect. So as much as I absolutely hate to see old army die in that regard, I see that safety concern that Col. Brewer is addressing. Although I highly doubt that walking on the drill field would result in a fire fight.

Now, just because the game was officially taken away doesn't mean we never tackled a few lowly turds who were unfortunate enough to try stepping on our beloved drill field

Considering wildman is class of 15 and campus carry just went into effect this year (yes I understand some students carried on campus before then) I kind of doubt that's exactly what happened.

I'm surprised a CT can put 2 and 2 together

I just know the band is full of bull****

I was subpoenaed because of an incident like that stemming from a BQ/CT drill field disagreement

You're exactly alright. He threatened the BQ fish.

Don't talk s*** about the Band, corpsturd.

BQ17 said:

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Don't talk s*** about the Band, corpsturd.

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Ooooo put me in my place.

CharlieBrown17 said:

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BQ17 said:

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Don't talk s*** about the Band, corpsturd.

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Ooooo put me in my place.

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Wildman15 said:

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CharlieBrown17 said:

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BQ17 said:

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Don't talk s*** about the Band, corpsturd.

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Ooooo put me in my place.

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Well, at least some traditions never change!

Honestly the changes you are *****ing about make a whole heck of a lot of sense. Incoming freshman who have possibly never been on a regimented physical training activity need to be eased into it. The supervision of this procedure is to ensure the safety of the cadets and that they are instructed properly.

If you want more PT join a special unit. Last time I checked we didn't have many cadets participating in Division 1 athletics, therefore why have them run faster than is absolutely necessary.

Corps wide brass..... last time I check it was called "Corps Brass" for a reason.. not Delta Co brass, or Jock Brass... When I received my Eagle Globe and Anchor it was as a Marine, not platoon 3125 EGAs.


Adapt and overcome... Semper Gumby....

Thats how the military works

BQ17 said:

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Don't talk s*** about the Band, corpsturd.

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Quote:

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therefore why have them run faster than is absolutely necessary.

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So a leadership organization should be ok with the bare minimum as a goal?

I guess I'll stop at the mins next time I take a PT test or make sure I only get a C in my classes this semester.

2/7Marine0311 said:

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Jock Brass

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Actually, up until at least 10 years ago, Jock Brass was still a thing

I think most 1st sergeants and unit commanders understand the need to ease cadets into PT. At most, it shouldn't take more than a reminder at the beginning of the year. There's only one outfit I remember, H-1, that used to take fish out for a super fast run the first week of school. But those fish also all knew they were joining the fastest outfit on the quad.

In regards to Corps Brass all at one time. I can see both arguments. I think outfit brass is stupid, I also think the band should wear Corps brass on their collar and their lyre somewhere else on their uniform (but I know that's never goign to happen). But a Marine that gets recycled into another cycle doesn't get his EGA at the same time as his original cycle, does he? He gets it when he's met certain key competencies along with his current training cycle. You can't recycle fish, so I can understand the argument for outfit leadership deciding if the fish have met the objectives set at the beginning to get Corps Brass. I think as long as they have measurable objectives, and not just decide randomly, then I think it's fine. I can also understand the unity behind every fish in the Corps going through the same suck at the same time and all earning it together.

Might as well.... Once you get your first job you stop putting your GPA on your resume and just show the degree(s)..... PT test scores don't go on a resume

2/7Marine0311 said:

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Might as well.... Once you get your first job you stop putting your GPA on your resume and just show the degree(s)..... PT test scores don't go on a resume

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PT Scores were on my application to summer training before I contracted with the Air Force, my packet to the rated board to pick up my pilot slot, and my applicaton to go back to be a trainer this summer.

Its not on my civvy resume but its damn sure part of my military paperwork.

Well if you care that much about a PT score you will make time to do extra PT on your own.

What's the feeling on promoting fish to corporal and pissheads to sergeant?

Update today on the Cadet Run Corps website. Rameriz doesn't know about these Key Leaders slides apparently.

In relpy to Jock 07

Jock Brass

Actually, up until at least 10 years ago, Jock Brass was still a thing

It still is even though they aren't supposed to wear it. The fish still have to earn it to be Jocks.

It would be great to have a timeline to go with all the complaints from former CoC members starting back with the senior class of 1880. "No tents? The Corps is going to be dead by 1900" "Black and white people in the same outfit? The Corps is going to hell" "No steam showers! The Corps is dead" "Corps Brass as a Corp? The outfits will die!"

It amazes me what low expectations you have and how very little most of you think of the Corps of Cadets and its current/future members. It amazes me that some current members of the Corps of Cadets think so little of themselves and their peers. I truly believe most of the cynics in this forum represent the "keyboard bound" minority. Impending doom will be followed by insurmountable gloom. Where is this pity party anyway? Will there be snacks?

Question: Has there ever been significant change brought to the Corps of Cadets by a Commandant or A7M President that was overwhelmingly accepted by current and former members. If so, please elaborate. If you're thinking Earl Rudder - you think wrong.

Being "Cadet Led and Cadet Run" is not a right of passage like getting a white belt or senior boots. Being "Cadet Led and Cadet Run" is a privilege that must be earned.

Throughout the history of the Corps, cadet leadership at ALL levels has had some really good years, some okay years, some not so okay years, and yes, some really not so okay years. Wonder why some outfits are not around anymore? When things start to go sideways or fall short of expectations, the Trigon, or the University, might decide to step in and take actions deemed important to the long term objectives of specific student organizations and/or Texas A&M University. Their actions are almost always unpopular, and unfair to some individuals.

(Speaking of which, how about those poor poor mistreated children in E-2, how will they ever find the strength and courage to go on being....well... E-2. Holy Crap! If you are a member of E-2, I really hope you won't continue to let outsiders portray you as small, helpless, and WEAK. You go to Texas A&M University! You are a member of the Corps of Cadets! You are a member of E-2. Act like it's 2017, not 1961.)

Things you could do in the Corps 20-30 years ago might get you put in jail today - that is not a change to the Corps, that is a change in our society and laws. Things you could do in the Corps 20-30 years ago are no longer considered acceptable military practices today and the Corps most evolve to incorporate new military principles - its not optional.

You only go through the Corps of Cadets one time. You own the results of your time in Corps, fair or unfair, and there are no do-overs or mulligans. It is sometimes cruel how close to real life the Corps of Cadet experience can be, especially to an individual, an outfit, a fish drill team, the FTAB, the entire Corps of Cadets...

I remember being a fish in Titan Ten during the fall of 1979, when one weekend a number of former outfit members from the class of 197X came into the dorms to visit their "old outfit". All they did was get mad, *****, and complain about how things had changed so much that there was no way the Corps would survive. Good thing we were fish and could not feel back then.

Those visits have since been replaced with message boards, Facebook, Tweets, Instagram, etc...but the one constant is the disdainful tone that so many former Corp of Cadet members have about an organization, in which they are from 1-50 years removed, and who feel they must be consulted on every f***ing matter that happens on the Quad.

I have had conversations with former Corps of Cadet members who hate the remodeled dorms and quad, and will spend an hour justifying this position. Unbelievable. How many of you "Good Ags" have sent a note of thanks to the people who donated millions of dollars to make this much needed renovation happen?

Apparently its much easier to hate how Duncan Dining Hall serves meals, and hate the new layout of the quad, and hate that fish get to wear surge pants, and hate that fish are not required to wear 2,017 smashed bottle caps fashioned as spurs to class, and hate the band travel schedule, and hate PT and height/weight, and hate not high porting, and hate the drill field, and hate coed outfits, and hate the Commandant, and on and on and on.

By my definition of an Aggie, this constant whining and discontent with change makes you look weak (and I am not 100% innocent either), and for a group of men and women who are clearly passionate about the future success of Texas A&M and the Corps of Cadets, that behavior of "us" is disappointing. What could be more selfish than to offer the organization that you benefited from most during your college years, nothing more than your ongoing negativity and financial blackmail?

My three sons graduated from Texas A&M during the GVA/Ramirez Corps of Cadets period. As an observer, I can tell you their Corps of Cadets experience was greater than mine, and I would not trade mine for anything. Each kid had bumps in road during their Corps experience and could have quit or become another cynical white belt. Fortunately, each decided to take on those challenges and made the most of their 4 years. They will tell you that they would not trade those 4 years for anything. "But how can this possibly be the case" since my kids never quadded anyone, or hit the OD with 2 dozen water balloons, or left their COs footlocker at 50 yard line during halftime at Kyle Field - all which could possibly result in one being expelled today.

So to all you red ass Texag Corps of Cadets / Military posters who feel the need to constantly criticize and complain and whine and vent and belittle not just the Commandant but all current members of the Corps of Cadets, ask yourself this - why would anyone want to send their son or daughter to become a member of the Corps of Cadets if they must take part in a rigorous exercise program, set goals and challenge themselves, be held accountable for their actions, be forced to live and work with the opposite sex, have your entire fish class receive their Corps Brass together, but under no circumstances be allowed to experience the fish water fight.
That's Just Crazy Talk.

What you want is called a "fraternity".......
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Titan83 did you know that Titan Ten was born from the death of the old Squadron 13 due to misconduct issues? I was a fish in Titan Ten in 1965 - the first year of it's existence as you knew it. Our CO came from a different outfit, something almost unheard of at the time. The previous year's 1st Sgt was a one-button Zip moved to a different outfit rather than assuming command. He was the only casualty of whatever issues caused the demise of 13. The following year our CO came from Corps Staff and again, our 1st Sgt was moved elsewhere rather than assuming command. In truth the ghost of old Squadron 13 lingered for 3 years, until the Class of '68 moved on.

Like you said about walking in BQ signs but also:

-No more drill field uniform
-No more high porting guidons and awards flags (funny the way guidins are treated in the Corps vs real military. More of a boof to be a Co/Troop/Battery guidon)
-BQ song in duncan
-Campiagn Hats for FOW
- playing intramurals on the Drill Field ( much less actually being in the drill field for anything other than Drill or protecting it. Still did your 25 though)
- Canoe Trip
All those are gone from the short 13 years since I last walked campus as a senior in B-Batt.


Like another poster pointed out, traditions sometimes tend to evolve or phase out. The PC culture of the world has changed immensely. So what was once acceptable is no longer considered so.

And to the poster who said the military is soft and coddled. To some point I'll agree we do so much SHARP/EO/Resiliency stUff that's it's frustrating, but man have you fought with these kids? They will **** the enemy up quicker than ***** They ***** and moan in garrison, but stick them in a COP burning their own **** and running three patrols a day in Baqouba or Baghdad they're content ( as long as their is wifi )

Push ups on/off the drill field are still done.
PT gear is used now because we have rehearsal immediately following a work out and it also helps with precision (holes are not as large now when countermarching)
Some intramural games are still played on the drill field

You're already in your place CT. Talk to me whenever your outfit, no, your Major Unit, can march in step. I'll be waiting.

BQ17 said:

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You're already in your place CT. Talk to me whenever your outfit, no, your Major Unit, can march in step. I'll be waiting.

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You need to calm down

I'm just stating the facts. I'll look at them as equals when they can perform the most basic military movement. I would assume a fellow BQ would be on my side.

I'm all about the rivalry. But right now the Corps needs to be one complete unit if you wish to accomplish what you want with this "cadet run Corps".

That's fair. I won't rescind my statement, but I'll give them a break.