EST = CQ, ol Ags

Looking forward to half-assed, deflected answers from the OOC when they post in this thread. Looking forward to the **** they spread. Glad I graduated when I did. The changes I saw coming down the pipe, and this, is just a whole lot more proof why I will continue to refuse to support or finance the current iteration of the Corps of Cadets.

This is a ****ing disgrace. Goodbye outfit identity. Goodbye culture. Goodbye Corps.

Had some time this evening to put my thoughts into words, I'll provide my comments in bold next to the change.

FOW Updates
Introduction of Standard Corps Day into FOW schedule
Academic Day and EST into the daily schedule
No training during EST
I don't see how these three can be added during FOW, unless they count the days of briefings fish get taken to during as FOW as the academic day that change makes no sense. Adding EST (CQ for you olds) doesn't make sense either. That would mean training would stop at 19:30. I know if most outfits the evenings are used for more locked off conversations with the fish about fish privileges, learning how to polish, etc with the fish.
No inventory fish PFT (total of 3 to 4 PT sessions)
This is a push, they'll just have to take the one with the rest of the returning Corps the first few weeks. 3-4 pt sessions is normal for FOW as it is now.
No Shopping Trips (no req for standardized room items)
I don't get this at all, if they don't have to be standardized in their holes where do you draw the line at where fish can't be individuals?
More Team Building and Leadership Dev exercises
Two things here:
1.the water fight is a big team building/class building event but let's get rid of that
2. FOW is not the time for this. fish have to learn how to wear/wire uniforms, polish brass and low quarters, close order drill before class starts and the first football march in so they don't look terrible along with having to learn everything else that goes with being in the Corps. You can do leadership activities during the rest of fish year if that is going to be a point of emphasis.
No Water Fight (MU Field Meet instead)
This is just stupid. Water fight is one of the few things all cadets can agree on as one of the best parts of fish year. Its good for morale and lots of fish classes come together for the first time at water fight. MU field meet won't accomplish the same IMO
Corps Run on Friday after Thursday night Airout
Everyone just loves a good Corps Walk
Remaining Corps members return Friday prior to classes
Don't think this is all that different, think non cadre and staff can usually check in on Friday and Saturday or something similar
No Freshman Convocation on Sunday prior to classes
Always thought Convocation was a good way to frame that fish are there for school not just the corps, also is usually when the new policy brief for the upperclassmen was so it served a dual purpose.

Changes to Uniform Bag
Drop Black Sweater / Poncho
Don't care about the sweater, most cadets don't wear it. Dropping the poncho is stupid, it has to be fairly cheap and the damn thing is super waterproof.
Return to Winter Uniform (Pink Trousers & Gabardine Shirt)
Looks goofy because we aren't used to it but whatever
Reduction in number of Midnight shirts / Boot pants
Most zips have at most 2 midnight tops, 2 B boot pants and maybe 2 pink boot pants.....

2017-2018 Updates
Weekly Schedule Changes
M/W/F Morning
Corps/ROTC/Special Unit PT Sessions
If Army continues to have three pt sessions a week this means all Army contracts in your outfit cease to exist three mornings a week, every week. Same if someone is a different ROTC and in a special unit.
ROTC PT on Thursday if Corps Run Friday
T/TH Morning
Unit Instruction / Drill / Counseling / CR events
Not really a change except there was PT authorized for Thurs mornings this year and some ROTC PT is Thursday
Afternoon Training
Alternative PT Session (total of 4 PT sessions / week)
This is nice considering we can't do afternoon PT now.... but its the same number of sessions we are limited to now
LRC / O-Course / Stamina Course / other
Intramurals
Corps Values Training

Standardized Training at the Major Unit level.
Objective
Pass PFT and meet Weight Standards
Proudly wear uniform & Look sharp while marching
Achieve Fish-level tasks
Earn Corps Brass
Cadets trained at Major Unit level to conduct standardized training across the MU
There's already some training to work with the other outfits in your MU now but its more to bounce ideas off new people and see what works in other outfits, I don't see an argument to say this isn't just trying to kill outfit culture. If you want staff to supervise outfits, so be it. Make sure they are hitting the minimum and intervene if not
CTOs will lead / supervise PT sessions in Aug / Sep
Max group runs < 2 miles at 8.5 to 9 min pace
MU trainers will lead / supervise PT sessions in Oct
Max group runs < 3 miles at 8.5 min pace
Unit led PT sessions in Nov (< 4 miles at 8 min pace)
No PT training sessions after Thanksgiving until the Spring Semester
This is ridiculous. Outfits run ability groups that help not push fish past their limits a dangerous amount. A 9 min pace isn't going to cause anyone to get better at running. And if CTOs and MU staff are leading all this how are the outfit training chains supposed to learn and grow? If outfits can only lead PT in Nov that means a total of 3-4 weeks were each outfit gets to have its own identity.
Corps Brass will be conducted solely on West Campus
Not surprised here. Remember being told we were to do corps brass one year on a certain day because there would be less eyes seeing it. Get over it. The corps is supposed to run, and push and be a difficult experience. Also kills plenty of outfit traditions of getting brass at certain places (Sully,Bonfire Memorial, etc) and I would assume also limits the outfits that have zips change into midnights or Class As to pin brass on their fish
Wed 22 Nov (Reading Day)
Corps movement to West Campus
Designated areas for PT sessions
Brass awarded at Corps formation
Return to Quad as a Corps
See above, Corps Brass, the locations of workouts, and the pinning of brass means such different things to so many outfits and this kills all of that

2017-2018 Updates in the Works
MU trainers conduct FOW Basic Skills training for all fish in the Major Unit
Gets rid of the awe and respect fish have for Cadre members in an outfit. Those cadre members that shape you during FOW and then continue to hold important positions in the outfit and the upperclassmen you remember through the years. Are we also saying that we don't trust outfits to be able to teach drill? Give me a break.
Cadre and Returning Cadets must pass an open book exam of the Standard and PPG
Don't take issue with this, know what you teach
Hallway & Greeting Procedures being revamped
Duncan Dining Procedures being revamped
I'm sure most cadets will take issue with the changes here.
Learning Objectives for each class being developed; must demonstrate proficiency to earn / maintain cadet rank/position
Don't disagree with this either, I wouldn't mind a return to the old promote system instead of a min rank for all members of a class
Freshmen promoted to PFC / Sophomores to Sergeant for Spring semester if meet promotion criteria (in development)
Don't like have fish ranked above their peers, not the point of the year.
White Belt privileges and excusals from EST being examined for cadets under a certain GPA (similar to Sophomore year)
This already exists, assumes this means they will raise the min GPA for white belts to stay white belts to higher than a 2.3 or whatever it is now. As long as it isn't raised to something ridiculously high I don't see an issue.


I've spent a good bit of time today reflecting on my time in the Corps and how these policies would change that. I don't like it. I don't think they will increase the quality of cadet and I think the lack of outfit pride and culture will increase attrition. fish that don't buy into their outfit don't have a reason to stay.

God bless the Corps and the way she used to be.

The way the worded it, it sounds like the only point of the Corps is to pass the PFT and look good in uniform. I always was taught and taught people that the only reason those things were important were as tools to teach leadership, discipline, ect.

It seems the leadership team can't see the forest for the trees

I am sure that Ramirez is behind this. When you hear his personal story of how bad he feels he was treated in the Corps, it all makes sense.

Difference between Ramirez and most of us is that he took it personally. We did not.

JKnight said:

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There has been massive amounts of uproar on facebook, twitter, and instagram not to mention this particular forum. Now that widespread opposition has been established, many cadets are beginning to openly express their disagreements with the new policies. Why hasn't the OOC released a statement or even acknowledged this movement exists?

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Because at the end of the day, General Ramirez will declare that this is all his sandbox, and if you don't like it, then gtfo. He's going to do what he wants to do and not give two turds about anyone else. He must preserve his "prestige/reputation" as the man who helped "bring the corps into the 21st Century".

snowmnag970 said:

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JKnight said:

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There has been massive amounts of uproar on facebook, twitter, and instagram not to mention this particular forum. Now that widespread opposition has been established, many cadets are beginning to openly express their disagreements with the new policies. Why hasn't the OOC released a statement or even acknowledged this movement exists?

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Because at the end of the day, General Ramirez will declare that this is all his sandbox, and if you don't like it, then gtfo. He's going to do what he wants to do and not give two turds about anyone else. He must preserve his "prestige/reputation" as the man who helped "bring the corps into the 21st Century".

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To name a few of my "favorite" ways that GRam could address this:

"If you don't like my corps, then you can leave. The exits are to the sides!"

"This is below my noise level" (I absolutely hate when he says this)

"You now live in the hardest corps that their has ever been" - This is the one that makes me actually question his sanity

Howdy,

For starters, as a current cadet, let me tell you that our Commandant is the least approachable man you can possibly meet. If you actually manage to speak with him and tell him your problems/question his motives, he will immediately shout you down and "one-side" the entire conversation, as I, along with many more cadets have experienced. He does not care about the concerns of his cadets, and he will not stop at turning the Corps of Cadets, a program geared towards leadership and personal responsibility, into a career readiness program, as is already happening.
I am currently in the Band, yet I will neglect to say which outfit, as questioning Ramirez' motives will give you a one-way ticket to the Cadet Performance Review Board, AKA, expulsion. If there is one thing that breaks my heart, it's having to argue with old BQs, because I respect each and every past cadet who has been redass enough to wear a Lyre, rather than that ugly corpsturd brass. However, you are entirely wrong in multiple places, and I hope you will see this from the eyes from a current BQ Zip who has watched his Cadet Corps soften to the point of a Fraternity over his past 4 years.

• Yes, by all means, outfit culture will be entirely stripped away. The new training, say, C Company will have to use will be the exact same training as C Battery, due to the push for "Major Unit Trainers". For example, Wildmen pissheads will not be training the Crusader fish (not that they can know that anyways), because the MU trainers will, and it will be the same training that a C Batt fish will receive. So when this is implemented, what's the point in having an outfit culture, if everyone is receiving the exact same instruction and training.
• All fish are technically CDT PVTs, but PVT is a Sophomore rank. By the second semester, there will not be any fish in the Aggie Cadet Corps. There's no reason, seeing as they will take off their AMUs and put on PVT rank. So, you either get to call them by their first name, or rather than saying, "Hey, fish Jones, come over here!", you will instead have to say, "Hey, PVT Jones, come over here!". This is a ridiculous change brought on by our honorable Commandant.
• Yeah, we obviously can't beat the **** out of people anymore, people are too soft for that nowadays. But Waterfight is an all-time good bull event, and when I went to my waterfight as a fish, it quickly turned into a playful splash fight, to an all out CT vs. BQ brawl. No one got hurt, it was good bull, and everyone had a good time. A wag fish was hurt this year, but it was her own damn fault for trying to fight in something little more than a mosh pit. Waterfight is good bull, and a much better stress-reliever than sports, I can promise.
• Commander's Intent was the norm before these BS policy changes. The CO in my company has given his training and PT intent with little to no problems, discrepancies arising if it sounded to "hazing oriented", and were fixed shortly. It's gone now, and replaced with Commandant's Intent for his 10 Major Units. As stated above, everyone will receive the exact same training, and the CO of each outfit will have his or her training plan given to them, and be told to like it, or get removed from their position/the corps.
• No, these weak PT sessions will absolutely not give any of the cadets enough of a workout to be able to pass their PFT. The ROTCs have their own PT sessions multiple times a week because they know these new army PT sessions won't do enough for their soon-to-be commissioned officers. The goal isn't just to pass the PFT, it's to MAX it, and I promise that you cannot max the run portion at 8.5 to 9 minute pace, at LESS THAN 2 miles. These slow runs simply won't cut it for anyone, and will bring the entire CORPS PFT average down. You say to just exercise on your own, but do you not understand how much stuff these cadets deal with? A day for a cadet is JAM PACKED, and after exercising/training in the morning, going to formation, getting **** on in class all day, coming back to the dorm, and going to formation, they will be too tired/busy to exercise on their own. Believe me, because I have experienced this/know hundreds of people in this boat. It won't work, the PT scores will drop, and the whole corps will turn into a bunch of fatties.

Have you ever heard the saying "Hard times don't last, Hard people do?" It's a damn good quote, and applies directly to being a fish in the corps. You join the Cadet Corps to better yourself and become a leader. You don't join to do weak PT and be politically correct. Ramirez has a hard-on for getting his precious Corps to 3000 cadets by 2020. That's good bull, and would be great if it could happen, but it won't. This was the smallest fish class ever, attrition rates are through the roof, and people are beginning to lose faith in this organization. Individualism, Outfit Identity, Hard as Hell PT, and Redass Cadets made the Corps the unique organization it used to be. That time is over now, and it will never come back. This overwhelming push for the same training across the quad will be the final nail in the coffin, and I would not be surprised to see our Aggie Cadet Corps burn out and fade away by 2030. Ramirez is turning this Corps into a Fraternity that wears uniforms, and there is nothing that can be made to stop it.

Sorry this post was so long, but you needed to be corrected and I wanted to let you know how bad the situation actually is.
I would highly recommend that everyone who reads this shares it to their friends, and should reconsider any and all donations made to the CCA. If Ramirez won't listen to his own cadets, he sure as hell will listen to the money.


Also, EST stands for Evening Study Time, AKA, CQ.

Signed,

A Dying BQ.

Edit: Apparently, I need to learn how to spell and format sentences better.

Howdy sir,

Current BQ Zip here, allow me to answer your question: NO. The corps has devolved so much that outfit commanders and other leaders face removal from the positions/the corps if they dare question our Glorious Commandant and his Major Unit Cronies *cough* *cough* I mean Commanders.

Yes, it's that bad.

My son is a BQ Pisshead. The Corps is very different from when his dad was a CT but for the most part the changes up to now have been pragmatic and necessary. Old Ags can't get it thru their head that "2.0 and go" is unacceptable in today's market and especially when attendance runs $25K per year.

That said, these changes go WAY too far. Why don't they just change it to where you fill out a registration form, pay a club fee and get your uniform to wear around campus? It's about the same difference. My son's fish year was transformational for him and I'm sorry the incoming cadets won't benefit as much as they might have.

Another son is a junior in HS and I'm not going to encourage him to go to Corps (I would if he were band because surely they'll still get a little identity unless he insists they all just form a block T every game and at least pretend to play an instrument).

Drum5343 said:

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Also, if you are so concerned with the future of our cadet corps, are you doing anything concrete about it? I mean besides *****ing on an internet thread.

You're practically dead anyway, so why would it matter if you and all your buddies were kicked out? Instead of just sitting, *****ing with your buddies in front of your 45 inch TVs while you troll Texags from your iPhone 7, why doesn't your entire BQ class march down to the commandants office and do something?

Your response might be, "He'll punish my unit next year!" But if the situation is as dire as you say it is, the Corps will be worthless anyway and will be nonexistent in 10 years. Why can't B-Co zips, if they are such hardasses, make sure the commandant's office knows exactly their concerns?

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I would strongly urge you to step back and look at what is happening here... These are cadets trying to gain a platform to speak from in safety. People like you have the ability to support them or shoot them down. Yes there is more to be done, however this is better than nothing. Furthermore, I would caution you to look back, at one point you felt the same, belittling people for not being in the same stage in life as you is not an argument, its ignorance. If this upset you so much why don't you go to campus and preach to the BQ's? These are questions aimed at attacking ones character and commitment not at addressing issues. The current corps climate pushes the PR aspect of making a big corps instead of focusing on cadets and their leadership development. We should try to retain the focus of this thread and not attack others.

lordy, this is escalating quickly. You know their schedules and their TV sizes. Did you invest your life savings in CTO PT training manuals or something?

How busy they are depends on their major and what else they are involved in. However I can assure you that none of them have much time free apart from Friday nights. Perhaps you were a lazy butt when you were there but don't project.

Drum5343 said:

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RossLawrence1876 said:

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Drum5343 said:

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Also, if you are so concerned with the future of our cadet corps, are you doing anything concrete about it? I mean besides *****ing on an internet thread.

You're practically dead anyway, so why would it matter if you and all your buddies were kicked out? Instead of just sitting, *****ing with your buddies in front of your 45 inch TVs while you troll Texags from your iPhone 7, why doesn't your entire BQ class march down to the commandants office and do something?

Your response might be, "He'll punish my unit next year!" But if the situation is as dire as you say it is, the Corps will be worthless anyway and will be nonexistent in 10 years. Why can't B-Co zips, if they are such hardasses, make sure the commandant's office knows exactly their concerns?

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I would strongly urge you to step back and look at what is happening here... These are cadets trying to gain a platform to speak from in safety. People like you have the ability to support them or shoot them down. Yes there is more to be done, however this is better than nothing. Furthermore, I would caution you to look back, at one point you felt the same, belittling people for not being in the same stage in life as you is not an argument, its ignorance. If this upset you so much why don't you go to campus and preach to the BQ's? These are questions aimed at attacking ones character and commitment not at addressing issues. The current corps climate pushes the PR aspect of making a big corps instead of focusing on cadets and their leadership development. We should try to retain the focus of this thread and not attack others.

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I don't think complaining about the commandant on Texags is actually better than nothing. It is either worse or the same as doing nothing.

These cadets don't need to speak from a platform of safety! They need to take some risk! "Oh no I might get kicked out of the corps and that would be hella embarrassing!"

If these cadets want to be leaders, they can't rely on safe spaces! They need to take risks and be willing to face the consequences.

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Would you risk your job? Would you throw 1600 dollars away? It's not that simple and let it be known this thread started as a simple display of changes not an attack at a person. Its not safe spaces, I am not making you accommodate me, you chose to read these. You chose to be triggered. Why? I'm not sure, if anything I would expect an Ol' Ag to support cadets wishing for a harder corps that is a bigger challenge. But if that is how you feel, there is no point in arguing, I will respect your opinion, however if you do wish to see change, and disagree with the means used, then calmly suggesting a change of plans would be a welcome thought to be included.

Great! They should all arrive at Texas A&M fully developed in every way. Self disciplined, 100% intrinsically motivated with a full grasp of priorities and time management.

They don't. Up until now each outfit has known them as individuals and helped developed desired characteristics in them. If they arrived with all these attributes they wouldn't have any need for the Corps.